Why dio Christians belive that Jesus had to die?

[Baruch]

Of course Judah grew a conscience, sorrow, and quilt, and he wasn't going to let the king of Egypt take another one of his brother. Judah was the designated speaker because of his promise to his father that he will be back with Benjamin. The brothers had to face the result of their action and see their father mourn Joseph all those years.
Joseph knew that on the first time his brothers visited him. Why didn’t he reviled himself than? Do you think they would be happy to run back home and tell their father that Joseph is alive? Why did he kept playing games with them accusing them of being a spies knowing that it’s not true?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Are you saying that Jesus is god?

Hello Baruch,

Yes, Jesus is God in the flesh and scripture also proclaims this:

"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."

Immanuel = with us is God

God the Father called Jesus God:

"But about the Son he (the Father) says,“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”


Thomas called Jesus God:

Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

The Pharisees and teachers of the law understood that Jesus was claiming to be God:

"My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.I and the Father are one.”Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

 

[Ahwatukee]

He is not the Messiah and don’t forget who killed him. You Christians are strange, you are happy that he died on the cross but you are upset at the people that supposedly wanted him dead and you ignore the Romans that physically killed him. You also ignore the roman’s control over Judea, which include crucifying people.

Good day Baruch,

If Christ had not appeared in the flesh and lived a perfect life in the flesh and had not paid the penalty for sins by the shedding of his blood, then everyone would be lost! There would be no salvation. It was/is a free gift, a blessing from God that Christ died in our place. But the pharisees, religious leaders and those who actually crucified him, will still be held accountable for all they did to him. In addition, everyone who hears this good news and rejects Him, they become the same as those of that day who yelled "crucify him!"

In addition, Jesus said "no man takes my life, but I give it freely. I have power to lay it down and I have power to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

 

[Bigbromarsh]

Romans 5:19

 

[mariner845]

Their was no sacrifice pure enough on earth, no lamb perfect enough to be sacrificed on Passover to cover all the sins of the earth and every man who would call upon His name. Except the blood of God himself, the bloodline of a man comes through his father but a human vessel had to be used to be conceived in the flesh as Jesus was. This is why Jesus was conceived in Mary still a virgin. He lived without sin as no other man could have. Their was no other way for men to be saved other then for Jesus to die, no other sacrifice great enough to cleans every sin of every man who would accept it and individually repent of their iniquity.

 

[beta]

There are 613 laws are all of them punishable by death?

Jesus abolished on the cross the 'commandments contained in ordinances Eph 2v15, Col 2v14, - meaning 'the law given through Moses which were temporary. What we have left for man to obey today are the 'Spiritual Commandments given personally by GOD - which are eternal, holy, just and good.

 

[beta]

Do you know that there is a decent chance that much of Europe is composed of the lost tribes? And that many Europeans believe in Christ. So how is it that the tribe of Judah, of David, is so blind?

I agree. The reason 'Judah is blind is because they are not of the 'lost tribes, Jews are well known and established since their 'return from captivity...the other tribes of Israel are not . 2 Kgs ch 17.

 

[wolfwint]

Are you saying that Jesus is god?

Yes, because Jesus says and showed it! Do you belive that Jesus is God and died for your sins?

 

[Ariel82]

Yes and no when they bow to him it was only because everyone that go to the palace had to bow to him it wasn't a bow of respect. In the other hand when Judah stood against him not knowing that he is challenging the most important man in Egypt it was Joseph that back down and mentally really bow to Judah.
Sorry Judah did not know that he is challenging his own brother

That's not what it says in scriptures.

 

[Ariel82]

Only seemingly to you that I do not wish to share the glory of god with others. I agreed to talk about the bible and the lessons but we have to talk about the bible.
Example; let’s talk about the story of Adam and Eve, do you want to do that? Can you do that without connecting the story to Jesus?

No because it talks about a Messiah even in Genesis 3. We can talk about it without saying Jesus, but it tells of how the Seed of Eve will crush the head of the serpent. A Messanic promise of salvation.

 

[Ariel82]

You are wrong about God’s plan. The Bible (Old Testament) is full of people breaking the laws and suffering the consequence.
I am slight confuse, what example are you talking about?

That is true and it is also full of God's grace and mercy for those who don't deserve it. We could talk about Jonah or the book of judges.

 

[Ariel82]

He disrespected his brothers although they worked to put a roof over his head and food on the table. He told them that he dreamed that they will bow to him and you should understand that anyone will be upset about that. Also Jacob favored him because he was Rachel’s son and that is not a good way to raise kids. Can you see the problems he created for himself?

God gave him those dreams and God had a purpose for them. God wants humble and contrite hearts to truly worship him. Joseph's brothers were far from humble.

Are you saying just because your younger brother gets spoiled and tells you dreams you don't like, you would be justified to plot to murder or sell him into slavery?

Do you believe his brothers just?

I believe his brothers sold themselves and their descendents into slavery by their actions.

Yes God sent Moses to set them free.
That is an example of God's mercy and grace to His people.

 

[JIMBO43]

Jesus did commit a crime in the temple; however human sacrifice is forbidden in Judaism.

[h=1]Isaiah 53:4-8[/h] Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all. [SUP]7 [/SUP]He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]By oppression[SUP][a][/SUP] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[SUP][b]


i Bolded the most important part for you. this is the old testement to stateing the time will come
[/SUP]

 

[Ariel82]

Genesis 45
Then he said: “I am Joseph your brother, whom you sold into Egypt. But now, do not therefore be grieved or angry with yourselves because you sold me here; for God sent me before you to preserve life. For these two years the famine has been in the land, and there are still five years in which there will be neither plowing nor harvesting. And God sent me before you to preserve a posterity for you in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance. So now it was not you who sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt. “Hurry and go up to my father, and say to him, ‘Thus says your son Joseph: “God has made me lord of all Egypt; come down to me, do not tarry. You shall dwell in the land of Goshen, and you shall be near to me, you and your children, your children's children, your flocks and your herds, and all that you have. There I will provide for you, lest you and your household, and all that you have, come to poverty; for there are still five years of famine.” ’ ** “And behold, your eyes and the eyes of my brother Benjamin see that it is my mouth that speaks to you. So you shall tell my father of all my glory in Egypt, and of all that you have seen; and you shall hurry and bring my father down here.”

 

[Ariel82]

Joseph was mad at his brothers and had planned to keep his youngest brother with him.

However when Judah showed that he was willing to sacrifice himself in love for his father and youngest brother,Joseph repented and forgave his brothers. He reveled to them God's plan to save them from famine.

I agree that Judah is one of the hero's of the story. However , I believe Joseph is also a hero.

 

[JIMBO43]

For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]

It doesnt mean he punished himself

 

[Grandpa]

Leviticus 17:11 [FONT=&quot]For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

John 1:29 [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Isaiah 9:6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1 John 4:15 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.[/FONT]

 

[Grandpa]

He is not the Messiah and don’t forget who killed him. You Christians are strange, you are happy that he died on the cross but you are upset at the people that supposedly wanted him dead and you ignore the Romans that physically killed him. You also ignore the roman’s control over Judea, which include crucifying people.

All things work for the good for those that Love God and are called according to His Purpose.

That's a really wide reaching statement.

A zebra can't change its stripes. Brutal people are going to be brutal. Murderous people are going to murder.


The Jews used the brutality of the Romans to have Jesus put to death. This showed the whole world was guilty before God. Even people who supposedly thought they were Gods People. People who should have known better.

 

[Adstar]

Isaiah 53:4-8

Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all. [SUP]7 [/SUP]He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]By oppression[SUP][a][/SUP] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[SUP][b]


i Bolded the most important part for you. this is the old testement to stateing the time will come
[/SUP]

Well finaly someone quoted the OT scriptures showing why we believe Jesus had to die.. I am sorry if someone else quoted this before but i did not see it.. But even you missed out of the critical verses of the chapter...

Isaiah 53: KJV
9 "And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. {10} ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. {11} He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities."


So Here we have God making the Soul of a man an offering for sin ( a sacrafice offering) and this was done so that he ( Jesus ) shall bear their Iniguities.. Meaning He shall bear our sins for us..

 

[JIMBO43]

He is not the Messiah and don’t forget who killed him. You Christians are strange, you are happy that he died on the cross but you are upset at the people that supposedly wanted him dead and you ignore the Romans that physically killed him. You also ignore the roman’s control over Judea, which include crucifying people.

I see your mentality in the sence that The romans crucified people so there for it was all the romans doing....

Ask your self this Jesus knew his word would turn brother against borther...

Did he also know he would be crucfied in this world by the enemie ? Yes he said as much at the last supper..