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Yep.
Just like a spiritually dead person who has not yet been made alive in Christ can do not work. He can't be baptised, he can't do anything. all he can do is call out to be saved.
You can not have it both ways, and say faith is dead, and can not save itself. then say a spiritual dead person can do something to save itself.
Just like a spiritually dead person who has not yet been made alive in Christ can do not work. He can't be baptised, he can't do anything. all he can do is call out to be saved.
You can not have it both ways, and say faith is dead, and can not save itself. then say a spiritual dead person can do something to save itself.
You're confused about spiritual death and physical death.
A physical dead body cannot do anything but a spiritually dead person is able to hear, understand and obey, as Peter's hearers in Acts 2 while lost/spiritually dead, heard, understood, believed what Peter said and asked what they must do all while spiritually dead/lost. (Same with the jailer in Acts 16)
James 2:17 "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."
So what can a dead faith only do?
aww, p...certainly we shall not hide the light that's been given us under a basket. 
the way i see it, mankind in normality reflects God.
so, we go about our daily lives in obedience...reflecting God's character to the world.
but that isn't what gets, or keeps us saved...right?
Salvation is by Grace and that a gift from God................Sanctification however requires that we spend our lives walking Christ-like in obedience to His Will.......accomplishing what He has saved us to do......He has a purpose for all He saves.......
We are Justified by God Himself when we become Heirs to the Promise..........
the way i see it, mankind in normality reflects God.
so, we go about our daily lives in obedience...reflecting God's character to the world.
but that isn't what gets, or keeps us saved...right?
Salvation is by Grace and that a gift from God................Sanctification however requires that we spend our lives walking Christ-like in obedience to His Will.......accomplishing what He has saved us to do......He has a purpose for all He saves.......
We are Justified by God Himself when we become Heirs to the Promise..........
Acts 26:18....among them which are SANCTIFIED by FAITH
1st Corinthians 6:11......but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are SANCTIFIED through the OFFERING of the body of Christ ONCE FOR ALL
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected FOR EVER them that are SANCTIFIED
I agree there is a sanctification that comes to our daily lives by a walk of obedience, but when it comes to our eternal sanctification it is based upon faith, Jesus, his offering of his body and is a once for all act which perfects our eternal SPIRIT for ever before the throne...
Saved-->justified (rendered legally innocent)-->for ever sanctified (set apart) in Christ, by Christ and dia Christ
Now you are just back peddling as many over the last few months have seen you on numerous occasions tied your salvation to your own merits and works and have consistently quoted James as a Prove all verse which is totally out of context. So....who is really being honest here.....shall we go back and cut and paste comments that prove my statement is true and seeing how you are now back peddling... and seeing how you believe you can loose salvation based upon sin....what happens if you are not dishonest about what you have said in the past...does that count or is that a big enough sin to cause you to loose your salvation?
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No you do, A physically dead persons body is dead, but his soul lives, he just has to access to the body, they are separated,
This is where your wrong, A spiritually dead can not obey, it can do no good. All it can do is human good, which God rejects as self righteousness, or bloody rags,
If you want to give God a bloody rag and say here God, Here is payment for my sin. Now you have to save me, You will be in dire shape.
A dead faith is no faith, it can DO NOTHING. it can not obey, it will not obey because it does not trust. because it does not exist.
Just like a spiritually dead person can do no good. It can not obey, because it trusts self, and that is all it can do. It can appear righteous (see the pharisees) but it is not righteous, nor can it be righteous.
This is where your wrong, A spiritually dead can not obey, it can do no good. All it can do is human good, which God rejects as self righteousness, or bloody rags,
If you want to give God a bloody rag and say here God, Here is payment for my sin. Now you have to save me, You will be in dire shape.
A dead faith is no faith, it can DO NOTHING. it can not obey, it will not obey because it does not trust. because it does not exist.
Just like a spiritually dead person can do no good. It can not obey, because it trusts self, and that is all it can do. It can appear righteous (see the pharisees) but it is not righteous, nor can it be righteous.
James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
James is comparing a physically dead body (not spiritually dead) to a dead faith only. James is not comparing the spiritually dead to a dead faith only
A physical dead body = dead faith only = neither can do anything.
James 2:17 "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."
Faith only is dead being alone. So how can a dead faith only that is VOID of works ever produce works? It cannot ever produce something is does not have.
You post "A dead faith is no faith, it can do nothing, it cannot obey..." That's my point > a dead faith only cannot do anything, it cannot obey, it cannot save, it cannot produce works for it is DEAD.
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Peter's hearers in Acts 2 were spiritually dead-lost. Yet they heard Peter's sermon, they understood Peter's sermon, they believed Peter's sermon so much so that while in a dead, lost state they asked what they must do to be saved. Obviously those that are spiritually dead can do something. They are not void of works as a dead faith only is void of works.
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Scripture speaks of three terms, Justifed, Sanctfied and Glorified
Justified is forever, it is our POSITION in Christ.
Sanctified has two parts
Positional sanctification, We are set apart forever from the world by CHrist
Conditional sanctification. An ongoing process, may go up and down from day to dy It is a moment by moment thing, It should be getting closer to our justified state and start to resemble it the more we grow in Christ, but will never match it.
Glorification. The day of redemption, when our sanctification is equal to our justification (we no longer are capable of sin.
of course, even when in heaven, we will continually be learning. so we sill still be growing in Christ.
Justified is forever, it is our POSITION in Christ.
Sanctified has two parts
Positional sanctification, We are set apart forever from the world by CHrist
Conditional sanctification. An ongoing process, may go up and down from day to dy It is a moment by moment thing, It should be getting closer to our justified state and start to resemble it the more we grow in Christ, but will never match it.
Glorification. The day of redemption, when our sanctification is equal to our justification (we no longer are capable of sin.
of course, even when in heaven, we will continually be learning. so we sill still be growing in Christ.
E
Dude.
Death is death. James is talking about a dead faith, NOT a dead spirit.
Just as a dead faith can do no work. A dead spirit can do no work to glorify God, All he can do is work to glorify self. Also called dead works.
You are trying to earn your salvation by dead works. your dead spirit is incapable of doing works to glorify God because it is DEAD. Just like a CLAIMED faith can do no work because it has no life, it is DEAD.
You must be MADE ALIVE in Christ, before you can obey in any thing to glorify God.
Death is death. James is talking about a dead faith, NOT a dead spirit.
Just as a dead faith can do no work. A dead spirit can do no work to glorify God, All he can do is work to glorify self. Also called dead works.
You are trying to earn your salvation by dead works. your dead spirit is incapable of doing works to glorify God because it is DEAD. Just like a CLAIMED faith can do no work because it has no life, it is DEAD.
You must be MADE ALIVE in Christ, before you can obey in any thing to glorify God.
To be "under law" was a phrase used for criminals when they've broken the law. For our benefit here, the full version of that phrase is "under the penalty of law"; the *full weight* of which crashes down on the guilty party until it is satisfied. Everyone - Jew and Gentile - were "under law" until Christ's work on the Cross (a work no one but he could do). This is wholly different from still being required to obey the law once one's no longer "under" it. In fact, in order to avoid being "under" the law one must obey it. Then if we sin, we can confess to Christ, repent and continue to obey God's law. In faith in Christ, no one - Jew or Gentile - is "under law" ("under the weight of its penalty") because they're under God's grace...and grace is the empowerment by God to live righteously (do good works which is obeying God's law); the barrier between God and man is broken so we now have the power to do so.
The truth doesn't change based on audience. There isn't a truth for Jew and then another truth for gentile. For instance, Christ said "...salvation is of the Jews" while talking with the gentile/Samaritan woman concerning their incorrect worship, specifically because the Jews were given proper foundational understanding of these concepts (since God originally chose them to be his messengers to the world); they had - what are called - the "oracles of God". James and Paul were Hebrews so regardless of what language they wrote in, they're going to speak from a Hebraic background that properly understands the meaning of concepts like "faith" and "grace" and "holy" etc...
We are significantly handicapped because we were born in a culture primarily based on philosophy ("abstract" notions) which came from greco/roman influences. So when we read certain concepts we get a completely different meaning than what Hebrews would and so we must "unlearn". We are the "have nots" Christ referred to...and so even what we have must be taken away so we can start over and build a proper foundation.
James challenges one who makes faith an "abstract statement" (or mental exercise), saying the faith that saves is instead a dynamism so to say (i.e. a belief wrought with works). The word "wrought" means "shaped by hammering", like a beaten work. This is the only faith that saves. Belief is good...but faith only isn't enough.
"Faith is wrought with works...By works, faith is perfected." - James
The truth doesn't change based on audience. There isn't a truth for Jew and then another truth for gentile. For instance, Christ said "...salvation is of the Jews" while talking with the gentile/Samaritan woman concerning their incorrect worship, specifically because the Jews were given proper foundational understanding of these concepts (since God originally chose them to be his messengers to the world); they had - what are called - the "oracles of God". James and Paul were Hebrews so regardless of what language they wrote in, they're going to speak from a Hebraic background that properly understands the meaning of concepts like "faith" and "grace" and "holy" etc...
We are significantly handicapped because we were born in a culture primarily based on philosophy ("abstract" notions) which came from greco/roman influences. So when we read certain concepts we get a completely different meaning than what Hebrews would and so we must "unlearn". We are the "have nots" Christ referred to...and so even what we have must be taken away so we can start over and build a proper foundation.
James challenges one who makes faith an "abstract statement" (or mental exercise), saying the faith that saves is instead a dynamism so to say (i.e. a belief wrought with works). The word "wrought" means "shaped by hammering", like a beaten work. This is the only faith that saves. Belief is good...but faith only isn't enough.
"Faith is wrought with works...By works, faith is perfected." - James
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James speaks of a claimed faith. Not one time in James passage does he ever say it is real faith. About the only fact he says is that if you BELIEVE you do well. for demons believe, yet tremble.
James is talking of a mere belief, the same belief the pharisees had and the same belief the jews had had for centuries. A belief of God, but no faith in God at all.
There is no work, because the faith (which must be present to produce works) is a claimed faith, but not a real faith.
The faith Paul spoke of was a real, living, saving faith, Which will work. because it is alive, and will do what it trusts.
If you do not trust someone, you are not going to do what they ask. It takes a trust to go into the unknown and do what is asked, not knowing what the consequences will be.
If you know. it is not faith but knowledge.
James is talking of a mere belief, the same belief the pharisees had and the same belief the jews had had for centuries. A belief of God, but no faith in God at all.
There is no work, because the faith (which must be present to produce works) is a claimed faith, but not a real faith.
The faith Paul spoke of was a real, living, saving faith, Which will work. because it is alive, and will do what it trusts.
If you do not trust someone, you are not going to do what they ask. It takes a trust to go into the unknown and do what is asked, not knowing what the consequences will be.
If you know. it is not faith but knowledge.
faith without works is dead.....the scripture never said faith is dead...it says ...faith without works is dead...just like the body without the spirit is dead....
the body without the spirit is still a body...albeit a dead body...
faith without works is still faith.... albeit a dead faith.....
show me your faith without works...
you believe in Christ show me you believe without works....show me you believe Christ by doing nothing....
the body without the spirit is still a body...albeit a dead body...
faith without works is still faith.... albeit a dead faith.....
show me your faith without works...
you believe in Christ show me you believe without works....show me you believe Christ by doing nothing....