Why No Women Are To Be Speaking In Church

[faithwarrior]

There isn't anything wrong with women preaching and teaching in church. Women are not supposed to usurp authority over men. The Bible is giving you God's order, the head of every woman is the man. For example, if there is a man qualified in the ministry and a woman is pastoring, according to the word, the woman is out of order.

 

[CarrierOfChrist]

There isn't anything wrong with women preaching and teaching in church. Women are not supposed to usurp authority over men. The Bible is giving you God's order, the head of every woman is the man. For example, if there is a man qualified in the ministry and a woman is pastoring, according to the word, the woman is out of order.

1 Timothy 2:11 - Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:34 - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Your statement went directly against the Bible.

For those who "think it should be this way" or "don't see what's wrong with things being that way", if it goes against the Bible, where do you think that idea is coming from? And the anger and/or frustration you may be feeling because of the injustice you think you're suffering, where do you think that is from?

The opinions that are forming from certain members in this thread are not being backed up by scripture; as a matter of fact, they're going against scripture. If you have an opinion, please back it up with scripture, because otherwise, you're misleading.

2 Peter 3:3 - First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.


2 Timothy 2:15 - Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.


AND, if I have offended anyone, this one's for you:

Galatians 1:10 - Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

If I were to apologize for what I said, I would be apologizing for the teachings of the Bible. If you were offended by what I've said, you were offended by the Bible.

 

[Sharp]

1 Timothy 2:11 - Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:34 - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Your statement went directly against the Bible.

For those who "think it should be this way" or "don't see what's wrong with things being that way", if it goes against the Bible, where do you think that idea is coming from? And the anger and/or frustration you may be feeling because of the injustice you think you're suffering, where do you think that is from?

The opinions that are forming from certain members in this thread are not being backed up by scripture; as a matter of fact, they're going against scripture. If you have an opinion, please back it up with scripture, because otherwise, you're misleading.

2 Peter 3:3 - First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.


2 Timothy 2:15 - Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.


AND, if I have offended anyone, this one's for you:

Galatians 1:10 - Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

If I were to apologize for what I said, I would be apologizing for the teachings of the Bible. If you were offended by what I've said, you were offended by the Bible.

I agree.


There are some things in the bible that are very hard to swallow, because its not the way we think it "should be". We may not like it, but its there, clear as day, in the bible. We may not agree with it on personal grounds but that doesn't mean we shouldn't obey it. Paul was inspired by God to write these things. If we start ignoring them, we may as well ignore other, more significant things too.

 

[faithwarrior]

1 Corinthians 14: 26-39 is teaching about "order and structure of the church". Here are the passages:


26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in the church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the laws also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. 36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestlyto prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.


As you read verses 33-35, it may seem to you that women are never allowed to speak at all in the church. However, 1 Corinthians 11:5 mentions women praying and prophesying and were not condemn for doing it. But every woman who prays or prophesies...


Women were obviously allowed to pray and prophesy (to preach) in the christian assembly because it would have been meaningless for Paul to give instructions for something they were not permitted to do.


What Paul was doing was addressing a particular problem in the Corinthian church, women were being disruptive. The Corinthian church was known for their chaos and lack of order in their assembly. Not with the women but the men as well. As you read the scriptures, he got on the men. Men were not taking the lead as they should have. There was no order, read verse 26. Everyone was doing and saying whatever they wanted to and whenever. Women were being out of line by disruptively asking questions in the chaotic service, taking the lead, and not being submissive. This is not God's ideal way of doing things. It is wrong for women to usurp and exercise authority over men in the church.


In 1 Timothy 2:11-15 when Paul was saying that a woman should learn in silence, he is referring to woman's attitude and manner while learning. Paul was not saying that a woman could
not speak in the local assembly (see 1 Cor. 11:5). He was simply cautioning women to learn with an attitude of all submission and not in an unruly manner. Women can exercise their gifts in the ministry, but as long as it is under the proper leadership of men.


One last point. If 1 Corinthians 11:5 mentions women praying and prophesying and not condemning them for doing it, then 1 Corinthians 14:34 must not be an absolute command for women to always be silent in church.

 

[Harley_Angel]

Does prophesy mean to preach? I see the word a lot, and I'm not entirely sure what the etymology or history of the word is. When I think of a prophet, I think of someone who has seen the future, and I'm not sure that the Biblical prophets are the same.

 

[jgrig2]

Does prophesy mean to preach? I see the word a lot, and I'm not entirely sure what the etymology or history of the word is. When I think of a prophet, I think of someone who has seen the future, and I'm not sure that the Biblical prophets are the same.

Depends on which verse and the context. A women prophetess in the New Testament would have no public role at all in any form of leadership. Sometimes Prophecy seems to be a reference to things God has spoken to man about what they ought to do now or what will happen in the future. In other times it may refer to simply explaining and teaching God's word. The best book (and I have it scanned in pdf format if you want to read it) is the first book in English on preaching called ''the art of prophecying'' by puritan William Perkins. The biggest error in reading the scriptures is that the the same word must have the same meaning everytime it is used without any sort of nuanced difference or even complete refferental difference just because all Scripture is God breathed.

 

[jgrig2]

There isn't anything wrong with women preaching and teaching in church. Women are not supposed to usurp authority over men. The Bible is giving you God's order, the head of every woman is the man. For example, if there is a man qualified in the ministry and a woman is pastoring, according to the word, the woman is out of order.

I think we are of more or less agreement but where we would disagree is that in those extreme cases where there are not enough men (and I have never heard of a case where there are not enough men for the ministry in any legtimate denominaiton) a woman preacher is acceptable. I would say there are many other options that are better that do not break a direct command of scritpure. Two churches can share a pastor, having a lay pastor, using dvds, closed circut broadcast live from a mega church, etc... Then again if a church has a plurality of elders this situation would never happen because a qualification to be an elder is a man and able to teach. We do not live by an extreme situation that could possibly come up rather we look at what the Word of God teaches and apply it faithfully to everysituation instead of being willing to break the commandments God has given us in Scripture.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Peace be to you

Man of God=male\femal who Jesus christ is formed in

Woman of God =Male\Femal who Jesus christ is not formed in yet

Babe=male\femal who has to repent cause his her actions are inappropriate


man of God=Male\Femal who has the holy spirit and will submit to it knowing all understanding comes from it and preach, teach as commanded by it,eg a preacher in a church of God.

Woman of God=Male\Female come to church to hear the word and recieve understanding ,sits and learns from older men(male\female)until Jesus is Formed in them ,often seeing there sin, often in travial like a woman giving birth.church audiance

babe=man\woman needing repeantance, unlearned how to act in the body of christ, begginer new convert

This should now make sense to you
Gal;
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,


Love a friend in God

 

[jgrig2]

Peace be to you

Man of God=male\femal who Jesus christ is formed in

Woman of God =Male\Femal who Jesus christ is not formed in yet

Babe=male\femal who has to repent cause his her actions are inappropriate


man of God=Male\Femal who has the holy spirit and will submit to it knowing all understanding comes from it and preach, teach as commanded by it,eg a preacher in a church of God.

Woman of God=Male\Female come to church to hear the word and recieve understanding ,sits and learns from older men(male\female)until Jesus is Formed in them ,often seeing there sin, often in travial like a woman giving birth.church audiance

babe=man\woman needing repeantance, unlearned how to act in the body of christ, begginer new convert

This should now make sense to you
Gal;
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,


Love a friend in God

You miss the entire point of the the passage. If you actually think you can take that one verse out of context and plug it into others to try to change the meaning ( husband submit to your wives=wives submit ot your husbands; man the head of the wife=wife is the head of man) then you show you basic inability to read a texte. Your argument is with the Paul and Peter who both teach different gender roles and not with those on here.

 

[Lifelike]

Some of the early church leaders were woman... the whole subject of woman talking in the early church was about order in service due to people speaking out whenever they felt like it, and due to the men and woman being on different sides of the room, the woman were calling out during the service asking their husbands questions about what was happening and causing disorder and chaos. this is a very big subject but i think to take a educated stand on the subject early church history and customs need to be taken into account and researched, another thing to probably look for would be fruit in the lives and churchs that have woman leaders etc, just like theres good and bad due to men in the church its the same with woman, i believe woman and men should be equal and if it wasnt for woman speaking up over the ages we wouldnt be where we are. But men do need to take their rightful place and rise up, theres a lot of ahab spirit out there, men by nature are submissive to sin and the world and their needs and lust, so are submitting to a jezebel spirit, we as men need to be broken, and truly recieve christ, submit to Him only as Lord and learn from him what it is to be a real man, to have dominion over sin, and to stand for righteousness. and husbands love their wives. as christ loves the church. actively. love is an action and is the opposite of selfishness and having your own way. the only way you can love is give yourself completely to christ, otherwise everything you do is for you. to the degree that you are submitted to christ is the degree you will love. sorry got off track haha. mm how good is the anointing!

 

[Lifelike]

ps. god never said man go and have dominion over the earth and subdue, over all of the animals and oh yes over woman.

 

[Slepsog4]

LifeLike... you asserted:

Some of the early church leaders were woman

Could you please back that up with some evidence, preferably from the Bible.

 

[wisdomseeker]

You miss the entire point of the the passage. If you actually think you can take that one verse out of context and plug it into others to try to change the meaning ( husband submit to your wives=wives submit ot your husbands; man the head of the wife=wife is the head of man) then you show you basic inability to read a texte. Your argument is with the Paul and Peter who both teach different gender roles and not with those on here.

Peace be to you
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Num 16:5, 26
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

 

[Thaddaeus]

LifeLike... you asserted:


Could you please back that up with some evidence, preferably from the Bible.

yeah I would like to see this also, keep in mind to minister to the Church/people, does not a ruler make, but rather a servant

 

[jgrig2]

Some of the early church leaders were woman... the whole subject of woman talking in the early church was about order in service due to people speaking out whenever they felt like it, and due to the men and woman being on different sides of the room, the woman were calling out during the service asking their husbands questions about what was happening and causing disorder and chaos. this is a very big subject but i think to take a educated stand on the subject early church history and customs need to be taken into account and researched, another thing to probably look for would be fruit in the lives and churchs that have woman leaders etc, just like theres good and bad due to men in the church its the same with woman, i believe woman and men should be equal and if it wasnt for woman speaking up over the ages we wouldnt be where we are. But men do need to take their rightful place and rise up, theres a lot of ahab spirit out there, men by nature are submissive to sin and the world and their needs and lust, so are submitting to a jezebel spirit, we as men need to be broken, and truly recieve christ, submit to Him only as Lord and learn from him what it is to be a real man, to have dominion over sin, and to stand for righteousness. and husbands love their wives. as christ loves the church. actively. love is an action and is the opposite of selfishness and having your own way. the only way you can love is give yourself completely to christ, otherwise everything you do is for you. to the degree that you are submitted to christ is the degree you will love. sorry got off track haha. mm how good is the anointing!

Of course women played an important role but that does not mean they could be permitted to teach. WOmen followed Jesus yet not one was choosen to be an Apostle. God does not require affirmative action and title 9. The bible clearly says uses the masculine pronoun everything the apostle, teacher, elder office is discussed; it says elders ought to be men (and then goes on to discuss wives of an elder as to an qualification); Paul says he does not permit a woman to have authority over a man (even if the cultural situation was true AND THERE IS NO HISTORICAL PROOF THAT SUCH A SITUATION EXISTED AS OFTEN DESCRIBED there still is the fact that Paul expected his letter to be circulated around thus other circumstances to read it) and the Holy Spirit inspired it also at the same time and God would have it for us to know. It one verse is only for one group of people at one time then we ought to just throw out the entire book because that would mean God is a sexist or a relativist and this would be a false letter. But it is not. It matches up with the Pauline view of women (equal in value different in function) and Peter's view (1 Peter 3). Women may not exercise any teaching rule in the context of the local church that gives her authority over a man. This is how the Bible teaches it through out both testaments; the early church; the medevil church; the reformed churches; and all protestant churches until well into the 20th century.

 

[jgrig2]

yeah I would like to see this also, keep in mind to minister to the Church/people, does not a ruler make, but rather a servant

Well they are to rule as servents entrusted with the charge of shepherding God's people.

 

[CarrierOfChrist]

1 Corinthians 14: 26-39 is teaching about "order and structure of the church". Here are the passages:


26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in the church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the laws also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. 36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestlyto prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.


As you read verses 33-35, it may seem to you that women are never allowed to speak at all in the church. However, 1 Corinthians 11:5 mentions women praying and prophesying and were not condemn for doing it. But every woman who prays or prophesies...


Women were obviously allowed to pray and prophesy (to preach) in the christian assembly because it would have been meaningless for Paul to give instructions for something they were not permitted to do.


What Paul was doing was addressing a particular problem in the Corinthian church, women were being disruptive. The Corinthian church was known for their chaos and lack of order in their assembly. Not with the women but the men as well. As you read the scriptures, he got on the men. Men were not taking the lead as they should have. There was no order, read verse 26. Everyone was doing and saying whatever they wanted to and whenever. Women were being out of line by disruptively asking questions in the chaotic service, taking the lead, and not being submissive. This is not God's ideal way of doing things. It is wrong for women to usurp and exercise authority over men in the church.


In 1 Timothy 2:11-15 when Paul was saying that a woman should learn in silence, he is referring to woman's attitude and manner while learning. Paul was not saying that a woman could
not speak in the local assembly (see 1 Cor. 11:5). He was simply cautioning women to learn with an attitude of all submission and not in an unruly manner. Women can exercise their gifts in the ministry, but as long as it is under the proper leadership of men.


One last point. If 1 Corinthians 11:5 mentions women praying and prophesying and not condemning them for doing it, then 1 Corinthians 14:34 must not be an absolute command for women to always be silent in church.

1 Corinthians 11:5 doesn't mention ANYTHING about women praying IN the church OR the assembly.

My grandmother is the poster child of why women shouldn't be allowed to speak in church, and unfortunately I'm not joking. She's very disruptive to the service, and gets offended when people correct her. Our church is a small rural church, so when someone speaks, even when whispering, everyone knows it.

Sorry, but even in the context, you're interpreting that verse wrong.

 

[faithwarrior]

Let me just make it plain. Women shouldn't PASTOR over a church assembly because they will be usurping and exercising authority over men. Women can use their gift for the ministry, but as long as they are under the leadership of men. There is an order and structure of the church, God has set in order. Men are supposed to pastor. Every third Sunday, my pastor would let his wife preach. There isn't anything wrong with this because the man is still over the church assembly. She is a prophet and she doesn't do anything without her husband knowing first. His wife is using her gift for the ministry.

 

[faithwarrior]

My pastor also ASKED me to teach a bible study months ago. I went before God on this matter and asked Him what do HE want me to tell HIS people. God told me and the entire church was blessed by the teaching. When I got up to teach, it wasn't me but it was God speaking through me. Whatever I do, I do unto God and for His glory. I seek to do His will and not my own. I am a woman who God has used numerous of times to teach His word. All of the time, I am asked by the Pastor to do it.

As a woman, I know I am not supposed to usurp authority over a man. If I teach under the leadership of men, how is this then usurping authority over them. I pray for those who are not understanding what God is saying in His word about women teachers. I pray for God to open your eyes even now. May you all be blessed.

 

[sisterren11492]

According to the Word of God the "Church" is the body of Christ, not a building made by the hands of men. Many take this one scripture (1 Cor. 14:34) and run with it without looking at ALL the verses pertaining to the topic at hand. Now if we stay with scriptures according to many of the comments above, women would never be able to speak at all cause the true church is not a building but the body of Christ, the Church that Christ built.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth NOT in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven my throne, and earth my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what the place of my rest?
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
1Cr 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, God's building.
2Cr 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Hbr 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Hbr 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:


God used over 175 women some where prophetesses(Miriam, Anna, Deborah, etc), judges (Deborah), disciples (Tabitha, etc) and more in the Word of God.

When we focus on the messenger of God then we stop our ears from hearing the message of God.

If the Lord never wanted women to speak than He would of made all of them mute!