WHY SO MUCH HATRED AND DISTRUST FOR THE LOCAL CHURCH? BEWARE THE KOOKS

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hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,397
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#41
1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?

Claiming I reject the TRUE Body of Christ is no different than diarrhea oozing out of your mouth... you are clueless of that which you accuse me of as you walk lock step with the accuser of the brethren.

I understand that you are upset that someone has the gall to believe God's warnings about false brethren and false teachers in the last days... you speak like one of those ear tickling, seeker sensitive types that follow the false new age jesus hawking universalism

How's that workin for ya?
Your silliness and condescension is getting out of hand. You should exercise some self-control.
 
Dec 3, 2016
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#42
Your silliness and condescension is getting out of hand. You should exercise some self-control.
Your inability to lighten up and have a little humor is getting out of control... you should learn to laugh a little!

You know, JOY is a fruit of the Spirit as well...
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#43
Someone brought up, on another thread, my past membership in an oppressive cult as an example of why local fellowship participation, and corporate accountability, is a bad thing.

I would like to point out that the misapplication of a valid Scriptural concept is no reason to claim that the Scriptural concept is invalid. It is true that the group I belonged to, as a young believer, was oppressive and misused church authority. This sort of thing is a reality in a lot of fellowships, but as I've said, the misapplication of a valid Scriptural concept is no reason to claim that the concept itself is faulty.

It is PLAIN throughout Scripture that Christianity is in the context of a community where the members of the community practice corporate prayer, worship, education, and the sacraments (baptism, communion or the Lord's Supper) together. Only an ignorant person would claim otherwise. Accountability is also a feature, as evidenced by Paul's correction of Peter for hypocrisy and the correction of the Corinthian man concerning his sexual immorality.

And, you can be assured that those who are detached from this community are not growing spiritually like they should be. Ephesians 4 is very clear on this. They are like ships who have broken away from their anchor, and are being tossed to and from by the storms. They are not worthy of teaching anyone anything, because they themselves are rejecting the rulership of God over them.

And, this is the essence of the fallen nature. It wants to rule over its own life, and wants to be autonomous. It does not want to submit to authority. The fallen nature, is, in essence the character of Satan. Satan didn't want to be ruled over by God...and those who are still in the flesh are the same way. Even some who are saved are reacting more to that pull than being led by the Holy Spirit.

Read Ephesians 4. See what it speaks to you on this topic.

And, in response to the cultic group, the leader himself reflected the nature of those who don't want to be led and to be accountable to the church. He was accused of a very serious moral failing (having an incestuous relationship with his daughter) and was not brought before the church to answer for the accusations. Whether he was involved in this crime, I don't know, but he did not answer for it publicly before the church, and most of the church didn't even know about it until long after he was dead. In the apostolic church, there was a plurality of elders, as I've mentioned, and such charges would have been examined by the elders. There was no one person who was unchallenged in this regard, despite the Roman Catholic claims.

Anyways, like I said, the abuse of a valid scriptural concept does not negate the truth of the scriptural concept, and it is undeniably true that Christians are to be accountable to a local church fellowship. Even the apostles were accountable.

There are valid reasons why a person cannot participate in local church fellowship, such as health reasons that incapacitate the person (I have been in that situation and am now in that situation temporarily), but as a general rule, local church participation is an expectation.

Others can call this legalism if they want..it's clearly scriptural. Read the post-Pentecost accounts (Pentecost marks the beginning of the church). God didn't save a bunch of rebels to stay rebels, dwelling in their autonomous frame of thinking. That is part of the carnal nature that Christians need to be putting off.
 
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hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,397
113
#44
Your inability to lighten up and have a little humor is getting out of control... you should learn to laugh a little!

You know, JOY is a fruit of the Spirit as well...
Yeah.... "diarrhea oozing out of your mouth".... that's some really funny stuff right there.

I guess if you are about 9 years old, you'd see humor in that... most grownups leave the bathroom humor behind, in junior high.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#45
I am wondering why there is so much hatred for local churches on this site. It's way out of proportion to the general Christian population.

Christianity is obviously within the context of community. It involves the ordinances of baptism and observing the Lord's Supper, as well as church discipline which is applied lovingly when a member is in sin. All of these things require face-to-face, participatory fellowship.

Here's some reasons I've heard for not being in church fellowship:

1. I know more than the pastors in my area. Well, I've heard this remark from people who don't reflect sound
doctrine, so I doubt that. Additionally, are they willing to drive further in order to attend a sound church, where the
pastor gives decent sermons? I have driven over 30 miles each way to attend a church that was to my satisfaction.

2. All the churches are in biblical error and I am afraid of falling into biblical error. If you listen to people
here, you may arrive at that conclusion. To be honest, many of them are cultists and they are seeking to degrade
Christianity by their false teachings, which sound credible but are not, when examined deeply. I was part of a cultic
group as a young person. I encourage you, if you're a younger seeker, not to fall into the trap they are ensnared
in.

3. I am not physically able. I can sympathize with this one, and in this case, online fellowship is better than no
fellowship.

4. I am a new Christian, and can't find a church. I can sympathize with that one, too. I suggest looking for a
church that is part of a sound association, such as Evangelical Free Church of America, Christian and Missionary
Alliance, and 9marks associated churches. All of those have online church finders. There are many other good
churches besides these; the key word is to find an evangelical church that believes the ten basic points I list in my
profile (deity of Christ, Triune nature of God, substitutionary atonement of Jesus, virgin birth, original sin, authority
and inspiration of Scripture, eternal reward of the righteous and eternal punishment of the wicked, justification by
faith alone, bodily resurrection of Jesus and believers).

5. I have social anxiety and it's hard to be around people. I can relate to that one too. When I first started
attending church, I was very anxious while attending services. Often sweat would be pouring down my face. It didn't
help that the church had a dress code of wearing suits, which made me feel uncomfortable. Nowadays that's not so
common.

6. Someone has hurt my feelings, so I'm not going to attend church. Well, join the club and get over it. I
counseled with a pastor on a sensitive issue and he didn't maintain my confidentiality. For a long while, I took out
my anger on other Christians concerning that. Makes sense, eh? One person, or a group of people, do something, and
I label all other fellowships or Christians as bad? That's the kind of poor reasoning Satan wants us to use to keep us
in isolation. Satan loves it when God's children stay in isolation; they are easy targets that way. He can pick off the
sheep on the periphery easier than the ones that are grouped together.


When I was looking for a church a while back, I looked for a church that showed love toward one another (John 13:34-35), was Christ-centered (Jesus and salvation is mentioned in the sermons), and that the church itself is growing and has a wide variety of ages.

Do I think someone can be a sound, mature Christian and not belong to a local fellowship? I believe God gives extra grace to physically infirmed individuals, and yes they can be sound, mature Christians. There may also be other unique circumstances which cause issues with church attendance.

Do I believe that those who avoid church attendance are growing spiritually? Read Ephesians 4 in regards to the purpose of the church. It says, in essence, that the purpose of the church is to help believers mature. So, if one is not involved in a local fellowship, I don't think they can claim to be a mature Christian.

Some on the site are in rebellion concerning God's command to fellowship, and claim to be mature teachers. Their claims are ludicrous. If they are not well-grounded in a fellowship, you shouldn't consider them to be sources of credible information.

Mainly I would suggest that you want to realize that this chat site attracts a lot of kooks along with good Christians. If you filter your thinking through kooks, then you're going to suffer for it. And, there are a lot of anti-fellowship kooks here. They console themselves into thinking that this is their fellowship, because they don't fit well into the local church due to their kooky conspiracy theories or beliefs. Don't follow their example.

Maybe others can suggest other reasons they've encountered for non-church attendance, and what they look for in a church fellowship.



I should warn y'all...I AM 1 of those "kooks"! And? Not fearful of being labelled as such! As it pertains to growing IN the Spirit, whilst being ridiculed, mocked and scorned, persecuted, and hated, by the world! The harder portion of what I just stated, is the keeping IN mind, that the world HATED Jesus FIRST! So as not to take these things personally! Please allow me, Mr. Sparkman, to inquire of you, what does a believer do, when these matters do BECOME "personal"?
WHEN, the things they think are precious? I don't understand!
WHEN, the things they pass for knowledge? I don't understand!
Are you, Mr. Sparkman: Just Reeling in the Years?
Or just, stowin' away your time?
Are ya gatherin' up yer tears?
Ain't ya had enough of mine? (yet?)

Have you rendered any "First Fruits", to the Lord of the Harvest, to be invested, for talents? Or is it, you rather fancy this parable, as something that occurs after death of the flesh? Anyone, care to answer this?
What does one do, or, where does one go, when one asks such questions, at any particular "gathering of believers"? And, answered time after time, "OH!...You/WE, don't NEED to understand this, (because) We're going to fly away...OH!...GLORY!!"
I will grant you, tis a much easier matter, to fly away, then to "Where COULD I go?...But TO the LORD?" And, then "GO...WHERE I SEND THEE!!" Just to realize, that "LEAVING YOUR KNEES"...ISN'T required? Yet, not going, whether, out of guilt, or fear, or cuz no one at my church does this, is merely ensuring your spot amongst the willingly ignorant?
Don't forget!...I AM a "kook"! I do not go to church! Haven't attended any particular church regularly in over 30 years!
I AM, also, a sinner! And I have committed some hum-dingers, during the course of my life! And left, to my own devices? I would be at 'em again!

I would, like to offer Kudo's to some Episcopalian Church, I attended for 1 service (some 30 years ago), that the Pastor/Priest, or whatever it is they are called, at least...recognized SOMETHING, that which was occurring within me, which, confirmed, FOR/TO me, that/these things, that were happening internally, were INDEED a thing, I needed, at that time! And this instance was the only time, at the only service, of around 2 dozen er so services after that, in which this occurred! As to why I hadn't gone back to that church? I was following instructions, and should you wanna know? Take it TO the LORD!

(page-2)

There are some people in these forums, Mr. Sparkman, that find it so much easier, when it concerns Bible teachers, or preachers, online, or otherwise....Usually online, as we are "on" this thing considered the Super-Highway of information; That, just because a person, namely myself, that has gained a majority of Biblical knowledge, and interpretation of the Scriptures, from a single teacher; That it is REQUIRED, to some people, that (in this case) I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY, with everything that issues forth from this man! I would LOVE to ensure you, Mr. Sparkman, that this certainly is not the case, where I am concerned, and would love to invite further discourses, and/or discussions, in regards to this/these matters you obviously have. I have to remind you, however, that I am a "kook", and using "vain" words, such as words, or names ending with "-ism/s", are wasted on me, and shall be inquired as to "What you Talkin' 'bout Willis?" :cool:I understand that by doing this, might make for some rather lengthy postings. Yet, if you insist on using such vainful tactics, in a condescential manner, in your parsing out your inquires, or responses?.....Then you, sir, have won! And such a great victory you have achieved!

(page 3, 4, and 6, don't apply to me...so, on to page 5)

I am, a "kook"...I purposely wear blu-jeans, and a pocket-tee, Wind breaker, coat, depending on weather, to church! No matter WHICH church building I might find myself going to. Granted, there was a time, even in America, which still holds true these days, in places, where your "Sunday Best" was muchmore of a pleasant experience, then, "smelling the farm" 7 days a week! :rolleyes:
As far as "social anxiety" goes?....It doesn't bother me, to be in a "group" of people in church, as long as they don't mind me being rather quiet, to a fault, some might think, when addressing "social" issues. I don't go to church to be social! In the same vein, when I used to drink?....I didn't drink to be social, either! Hmmm...wonder if there's some sort of parallel there?






 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#46
Too many kooks spoil the broth....:p
 
Feb 21, 2016
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#47
My local pastor is a satanist and the nearest town is full of them.Not much options for me to attend a good church.My mother knows a pastor who I happen to like a lot but I haven't seen him in a long time.God has shown me the churches true colors anyways.So it's not like I'm missing out on anything by not going.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#48
Here's a meme based on Ephesians 4:11-16 that depicts the doctrinal stability of a person who is not connected to the body through a local church.

One thing to notice, for those who are new Christians..the ones who aren't involved in a fellowship, read their comments and see if they reflect a sound, well-balanced mind..one that is not full of paranoia such as claiming that all local churches are satanic, etcetera.

It is unavoidable that internet "fellowships" will attract people who have an unbalanced way of thinking in regards to this. I'm sure you'll see this evidenced by a lot of individuals who hold conspiracy theories or aberrant theology here. I spent some time myself in a whacky cult, rather than one that is sound, Christ-worshipping, and loving. I wouldn't recommend sitting in home in paranoid fear (like you see here), nor would I recommend hanging out with weirdos.

I would look for a loving church that believes in the essentials of the Christian faith. I would recommend the Evangelical Free Church of America, Christian and Missionary Alliance or 9marks websites for reference to a church that is sound. There's also a lot of Baptist churches that are sound.

I've said this before..the fruit of the unconverted mind includes autonomy..the desire to be alone and not to submit to authority. It's plain from Scripture that God expects us to be involved in Christian community, with church leadership and accountability. It is part of being conformed to the image of Jesus. We cannot achieve that by hiding away in a corner at home or on the internet in impersonal contact.

The failure to do so merely ends up in no fruit, or withered fruit, and isolation allows sin to thrive. I know this from personal experience. After I left the cultic group, I didn't attend church services for a number of years and it had a definite impact on my spiritual fruit and a sin issue that I struggled with. I returned back from that in early 2014 to a good church fellowship, and things improved dramatically.
 

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FreeNChrist

Guest
#49
Here's a meme based on Ephesians 4:11-16 that depicts the doctrinal stability of a person who is not connected to the body through a local church.

One thing to notice, for those who are new Christians..the ones who aren't involved in a fellowship, read their comments and see if they reflect a sound, well-balanced mind..one that is not full of paranoia such as claiming that all local churches are satanic, etcetera.

It is unavoidable that internet "fellowships" will attract people who have an unbalanced way of thinking in regards to this. I'm sure you'll see this evidenced by a lot of individuals who hold conspiracy theories or aberrant theology here. I spent some time myself in a whacky cult, rather than one that is sound, Christ-worshipping, and loving. I wouldn't recommend sitting in home in paranoid fear (like you see here), nor would I recommend hanging out with weirdos.

I would look for a loving church that believes in the essentials of the Christian faith. I would recommend the Evangelical Free Church of America, Christian and Missionary Alliance or 9marks websites for reference to a church that is sound. There's also a lot of Baptist churches that are sound.

I've said this before..the fruit of the unconverted mind includes autonomy..the desire to be alone and not to submit to authority. It's plain from Scripture that God expects us to be involved in Christian community, with church leadership and accountability. It is part of being conformed to the image of Jesus. We cannot achieve that by hiding away in a corner at home or on the internet in impersonal contact.

The failure to do so merely ends up in no fruit, or withered fruit, and isolation allows sin to thrive. I know this from personal experience. After I left the cultic group, I didn't attend church services for a number of years and it had a definite impact on my spiritual fruit and a sin issue that I struggled with. I returned back from that in early 2014 to a good church fellowship, and things improved dramatically.
It seems strange for one who has come out of a cult to be so attracted to cultish ministries like 9marks that exert so much inappropriate control over their members. But hey, strange is nothing new around here.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#50
LOVE

We are called to love and the people who we are most easily
able to love is our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

It is easy to say, I love these people, but then to actually not
be involved with anyone so it is just ideas in your head with no
practical outworking.

And victory comes in victory through difficult interactions, yet
how can this be a reality if being with fellow believers ends in
defeat. It suggests either delusion or being conquered by fear
and Jesus not having the victory in ones life.

So there are no excuses. Without being involved in a fellowship
one is not walking in victory in Christ or possibly knowing Him
at all. It is why Jesus called the disciples and sent them out
two by two, so they encourage one another, and practice the
love they preach, ministering to each other as they go.