Why the Prophets Need Each Other
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I don't think the prophet can afford to be to afraid of their faces, given his role, not even when speaking to the king. It probably took guts and a dollop of wisdom for Nathan to say what he said to David after the Bathsheba incident also, and there are plenty of other examples. Fellowship is not the principal concern of the prophet: he is meant to be able to stand totally alone with God if necessary, in order to see deliverance come to a stubborn and rebellious people.
No change there then!
No change there then!
I don't think the prophet can afford to be to afraid of their faces, given his role, not even when speaking to the king. It probably took guts and a dollop of wisdom for Nathan to say what he said to David after the Bathsheba incident also, and there are plenty of other examples. Fellowship is not the principal concern of the prophet: he is meant to be able to stand totally alone with God if necessary, in order to see deliverance come to a stubborn and rebellious people.
No change there then!
No change there then!
A good example that has been on my mind that I think really speaks to both you and lady lynn's point is that of Samuel and Saul.
To lady lynn: Do prophets only build and not tear? It seems to me that it is not so. Did not Samuel speak to how God tore the kingdom out of Saul's hands and gave it to David?
1 Samuel 15:24-29
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And Samuel said unto him, The Lord hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
Yet the story continues, and so I must ask you lady convallaria about whether we ought be so hasty to break with unbelievers. For did not the renowned prophet Samuel turn again after Saul that Saul would worship the Lord at least one more time? Though indeed I think it's worthy to continue to try for as long as there is hope; I do get your point. Sometimes in the end, one must break fellowship, just as Samuel after turning again once more fellowshipping with Saul, he did ultimately break fellowship with Saul once he returned to Ramah. Yet still did Samuel mourn for Saul.
1 Samuel 15:30-35
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Then he said, I have sinned: yet honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord thy God.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the Lord.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then Samuel went to Ramah; and Saul went up to his house to Gibeah of Saul.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
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Hey there,
Yes I think that mourning you speak of in the context of our church experience at CC and elsewhere, is something that never goes away. It is indeed the thing that drives us to continue so that none may be missed as follows:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
The truth is our unwavering commitment, though many reject it because it doesn’t feel like love, and of course it never does, when our hearts are embracing something unwholesome to the Lord, because we do not want to be set free from that which our hearts desire.
Nevertheless we in agreement with God are one with Him scanning the horizon for the prodigal’s return, easy to be entreated, ready to confirm the family blessings with ring on the finger and shoes on the feet…but we must not leave our station for we would lose our Way, having left the Truth, risking loss of our own Life.
It is not the Lord who in terms of Truth, moves location to accommodate the prodigal’s waywardness, otherwise how would he find Him when his heart compelled him to return? We must stand as one with Christ in that same place, where the smallest sign of repentance can be easily seen.
I am so glad you brought in the subject of Saul. The comparison of the anointed David with the fleshly, jealous and hateful Saul is a picture indeed of exactly this enmity existing in the church since God poured out His Spirit. These things are what help us make sense of the picture when attacks are perceived in response to our conscientious and honest ministry.
What I see in Saul is that he pretty much felt entitled to the blessing of God because of his kingly position and fleshly accomplishments, whereas David even as the ruddy lad, was anointed and blessed in his deeds, not because of any entitlement but because God had chosen him; not because of any self-belief but because of his faith, and heart after God’s own heart.
And so it ought to be, and is, with us. The Holy Spirit is not given us because we are good at what we do already; the Holy Spirit is given because we know we are not: He is the Promise of the Father, and we have believed the Father through Jesus Christ our Saviour. In a New Testament sense we do exploits (Saul has killed his thousands and David his tens of thousands) by the direction and in the power of the Holy Spirit, such as our ministries require, severally, for the benefit of the body of Christ, and the expansion of that body in our day.
We have ceased and rested from our own works in this church era, in order to do the work of God.
Great conversation, thank you.
Yes I think that mourning you speak of in the context of our church experience at CC and elsewhere, is something that never goes away. It is indeed the thing that drives us to continue so that none may be missed as follows:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
The truth is our unwavering commitment, though many reject it because it doesn’t feel like love, and of course it never does, when our hearts are embracing something unwholesome to the Lord, because we do not want to be set free from that which our hearts desire.
Nevertheless we in agreement with God are one with Him scanning the horizon for the prodigal’s return, easy to be entreated, ready to confirm the family blessings with ring on the finger and shoes on the feet…but we must not leave our station for we would lose our Way, having left the Truth, risking loss of our own Life.
It is not the Lord who in terms of Truth, moves location to accommodate the prodigal’s waywardness, otherwise how would he find Him when his heart compelled him to return? We must stand as one with Christ in that same place, where the smallest sign of repentance can be easily seen.
I am so glad you brought in the subject of Saul. The comparison of the anointed David with the fleshly, jealous and hateful Saul is a picture indeed of exactly this enmity existing in the church since God poured out His Spirit. These things are what help us make sense of the picture when attacks are perceived in response to our conscientious and honest ministry.
What I see in Saul is that he pretty much felt entitled to the blessing of God because of his kingly position and fleshly accomplishments, whereas David even as the ruddy lad, was anointed and blessed in his deeds, not because of any entitlement but because God had chosen him; not because of any self-belief but because of his faith, and heart after God’s own heart.
And so it ought to be, and is, with us. The Holy Spirit is not given us because we are good at what we do already; the Holy Spirit is given because we know we are not: He is the Promise of the Father, and we have believed the Father through Jesus Christ our Saviour. In a New Testament sense we do exploits (Saul has killed his thousands and David his tens of thousands) by the direction and in the power of the Holy Spirit, such as our ministries require, severally, for the benefit of the body of Christ, and the expansion of that body in our day.
We have ceased and rested from our own works in this church era, in order to do the work of God.
Great conversation, thank you.
Aye good answers! Not sure if you intended it or not, but makes me think of the Prodigal Son Parable Jesus said. Good thoughts indeed!
Luke 15
1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he said, A certain man had two sons:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Luke 15
1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he said, A certain man had two sons:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Lovely to read this all over again!
I had a bit of new revelation for me regarding this scripture, given the wonderful conversation we have been having. It seems to gather together many of the current threads on prophets, prophecy and the moving of the Holy Spirit.
You remember I mentioned that in terms of truth we must be unwavering, as Jesus is, Who IS Truth amen. And all those attributes demonstrated as fruit of the Holy Spirit are also embodied in Him...love, joy, peace, gentleness, goodness etc., So we are located in the Spirit of Christ and He is in us, if we are born again and if we abide in Him and do not move our position.
But the location we speak of is not physical or geographical, but spiritual, as in of the Spirit...so it isn't bound or limited by any physical or geographical ....or even technological thing.
From this location in the Spirit we do not move, BUT since the Spirit has liberty, and there is liberty IN the Spirit, we see Jesus seeking out the lost lambs as in the scripture above, and His Spirit in us is doing just that.
In terms of our commitment to stand, i.e.., remain in this location, here is our place: we simply have to take it.
But by standing, i.e. not moving away from our commitment to the Lord and the demonstration of the powerful Gospel through all things of the Spirit....we find we have liberty to MOVE in Him.
Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
In HIM is our location, and He is unwavering. But He it is Who is not bound by walls and physical things...how He passed unseen in the crowds....and how He moves freely in us, if we allow Him ... and freely through us, also if we allow Him...to seek out the lost and those who are out of the way.
I had a bit of new revelation for me regarding this scripture, given the wonderful conversation we have been having. It seems to gather together many of the current threads on prophets, prophecy and the moving of the Holy Spirit.
You remember I mentioned that in terms of truth we must be unwavering, as Jesus is, Who IS Truth amen. And all those attributes demonstrated as fruit of the Holy Spirit are also embodied in Him...love, joy, peace, gentleness, goodness etc., So we are located in the Spirit of Christ and He is in us, if we are born again and if we abide in Him and do not move our position.
But the location we speak of is not physical or geographical, but spiritual, as in of the Spirit...so it isn't bound or limited by any physical or geographical ....or even technological thing.
From this location in the Spirit we do not move, BUT since the Spirit has liberty, and there is liberty IN the Spirit, we see Jesus seeking out the lost lambs as in the scripture above, and His Spirit in us is doing just that.
In terms of our commitment to stand, i.e.., remain in this location, here is our place: we simply have to take it.
But by standing, i.e. not moving away from our commitment to the Lord and the demonstration of the powerful Gospel through all things of the Spirit....we find we have liberty to MOVE in Him.
Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
In HIM is our location, and He is unwavering. But He it is Who is not bound by walls and physical things...how He passed unseen in the crowds....and how He moves freely in us, if we allow Him ... and freely through us, also if we allow Him...to seek out the lost and those who are out of the way.