Willful sin and the sin of ignorance

PeterJens · Nov 22, 2016

This is the language of the pharisees. We are sons of Abraham. We are the chosen, we
respect the law and the prophets.

Yet Jesus said they were evil doers, liars and followers of satan. So one must be very
careful to state assuming things, we are chosen because we have faith in Christ and walk
with Him. But in all relationships it is a two way thing. If I loose my peace in Christ, I am
a soul at sea. The Lord has blessed me for so long you just assume things, but I know as in
all my relationships, it need to give and receive, it needs life.

PeterJens · Nov 22, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

G7 loves this phrase. It is so demeaning, condescending, condemning, judgemental and wrong.

If one is quoting scripture the thought or idea is scriptural, so not an invention of one individual,
but something of Gods heart.

To demean Gods heart, is to be His enemy. But the real intent is to remove any conveying of
respect and to be disrespectful without swearing, but it conveys the same meaning.

Now the only people I know who deceive and lie like this are the enemies of God, and work
for the main authority, though they wish to appear as a beacon of light, which they sincerely
believe they are.

I have always realised, we as mortals are easily deceived and can end up turning love into
hate. Once your enemy is just black, you have fallen for the real enemy in your heart.

This is why Jesus called us to love our enemies, because it is love that overcomes everything,
and is the only way to see the reality of the situation.

And you will find people who can turn language in this way, are just as manipulated by their
own propoganda as everyone else. You will know it is propoganda when the spreaders deny
the content at the first challenge, because the core ethic is just sincerity and being friendly,
even if the core message is continually ripping things apart. Ironic that. SO be very careful
whose side you put your allegiance on, because you need to just know the Lords will and follow
Him. Amen.

Grace777x70 · Nov 22, 2016

To the humanistic mindset which is the Greek philosophy natural mind - the preaching of Christ is foolishness to them. The new creation in Christ is a mystery. The new heart created in righteousness and holiness is a mystery.

To the works-based mindset which is represented in the Jewish mind-frame the preaching of Christ is a stumbling block because they have a need to establish their own righteousness and are not submitting themselves to the righteousness of God.

Is this being done wilfully or in ignorance? I suppose only the Lord knows for sure.

The fact that we are righteousness because we are in Christ is foolishness to them too which is why the works-based mindset needs to create and maintain their own righteousness and in effect are denying Christ Himself and not believing and receiving the gift of righteousness. Rom. 5:17

1 Corinthians 1:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

dcontroversal · Nov 22, 2016

PeterJens said:

Do these people understand relationships?

Sin is no minor issue, or a thought, or a slip in an off moment. It is a planned intended action
which does harm to others and often oneself but meets some emotional need, which is often
totally selfish. To abide in this is to rebel against Christ, to reject the Kingdom.

I know people who were believers but now would rather say not christians.

This is like your own child ignoring your feelings, doing a self destructive act, and refusing any
support, guidance or help, and walking away as if you never knew them.

The relationship in this situation has died, the pain is so bad, trust is gone, and the drawbridge
is drawn up.

But these people think Jesus counts them as His people, His holy, redeemed, pure, righteous
people when they have actually become His enemies.

This is just universalism under the guise of once in never out, back sliding does not matter.
Now I would say to these people, your heart is so hard you do not know the pain Jesus goes
through for His people all the time, it is nothing to them, because they count it as a free buffee,

I mean chew somebody over, destroy the thing they hold most dear, stuff it, they deserve it
because I am angry. Nope, you have no heart, you have no clue what you are talking about.

They went out from us because they were NEVER OF US.....key word is NEVER.........

PeterJens · Nov 22, 2016

The propoganda above is in rebellion against
Ezek 18:21 and Malachi 2:17

The Kingdom of heaven is based on walking in love, righteousness, and learning to be a blessing
and healing to those you meet.

What is obvious is these people are so imbedded in wilful sin they assume everyone else is.
But look at who God calls righteous, Abraham, Lot, Able, Bathsheba, David, Samson.

These people had serious issues, yet their faith overcame it all.
So you will find people lie continually and turn scripture to their own ends, which give them
security where God never provided any.

The key test for me is is sin down played, or love and righteousness support in the fullest,
open and healthy way possible. The way of the world is always to down play sin, and the way
of the Lord to bless the righteous.

But the righteous are not the bright conforming nice people, they are the people who have learnt
love, compassion, sacrifice, mourning, humbleness, work, patience matter above anything else, and
make everything work. They are the people you run to when everything goes wrong and have the
answers when disaster strikes. We all need people like this, and in Jesus we can all become people
like this, the salt of the earth.

If you want a picture of real devotion, Mary washing Jesus's feet with her tears and hair.

Or for me one very powerful moment, Mary running to anoint Jesus's body in the tomb on
sunday, finding Him gone, looks to the gardner, and asks, "Sir, if you have carried him away,
tell me where you have put him, and I will get him."
Jesus said to her, “Mary.”
She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).

Do not confuse the sharing of some here, they do not know Christ like Mary did, and do not
speak the language of His heart.

dcontroversal · Nov 22, 2016

PeterJens said:

No one I know down plays sin..on the contrary...one who understands the words IT IS FINISHED AND WHAT THAT MEANT/MEANS <--PAID IN FULL....UNDERSTANDS THAT FOR A BELIEVER sin has been ETERNALLY DEALT WITH IN CHRIST...the scriptures are clear...OUR SPIRIT is born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED, DOES NOT SIN, IS ETERNALLY SECURE, SAVED, SEALED JUSTIFIED AND SANCTIFIED IN CHRIST....IT IS BOUND in a FALLEN sinful dead body that is not subject unto the law of God, neither indeed can be.....you guys WRONGFULLY ASSUME that we believe, want and desire to live like the devil because of what we believe....this is false and based upon ignorance....JESUS NAILED EVERY SIN I WOULD EVER COMMIT TO HIS TREE WHEN HE BECAME SIN FOR ME....HE SAVED ME KNOWING FULL WELL EVERY SIN I WOULD COMMIT IN THE FLESH...JOHN IS CLEAR, THE LANGUAGE IS CLEAR...If WE SAY WE HAVE NO SIN (PRESENT TENSE) WE ARE

A) DECEIVED
B) THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US

JOHN included himself in this grouping by the word WE....THOSE WHO DENY THAT THEY SIN OR CLAIM TO HAVE STOPPED SINNING IN ALL FORM OR FASHION ARE

A) DECEIVED
B) DO NOT HAVE THE TRUTH IN THEM

PERIOD, END OF STORY......!

psalm6819 · Nov 22, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

I wish you could be still...................... and know He is God.

He doesn't need your help to let people know they don't measure up - that's what the Law is for

The Holy Spirit can comfort. convict and teach without your assistance

Why don't you study His mercy instead of judgement?

His all encompassing love for you, His well loved child, might melt your heart

PeterJens · Nov 22, 2016

dcontroversal said:

There is a poetic reality here, not a nice one, but still real.

It is obvious EG & G7 believe they know Christ and the real gospel.
They once were part of traditional congregations, believing evangelical theology but now
stand apart. They espouse they are in the truth, that most of the church is lost, evil, possibly
unsaved doomed to hell.

I have probably shared all that is in my heart and my biblical understanding but it is like a
pea shooter bouncing off their distortions, and extreme positions.

Now I do not know why their hearts are so jaded, but the reality is they believe they are
right and we are totally deluded. So in a very real sense they have lost their faith in the
biblical sense we would put it, and are dangerous to believers in their undermining basic
spiritual growth and walk in purity and holiness.

I cannot say they were never of us, but the things they now reject are so part of the gospel
I can only believe these issues do not matter to them anymore.

My experience of people like this is 10 years from now they will not be part of any fellowship
and will just be jaded ex-believers. It happens because once you chew up others for the wrong
faith, you refine and refine until no one is good enough for wherever you end up, because it all
has nothing to do with faith, but an emotional engine that is destroying everything to stop things
falling apart. But they do in the end, because this engine needs stopping and healing, not running
riot.

Persuaded · Nov 22, 2016

dcontroversal said:

I agree with everything you said.

BECAUSE I believe what you said, I hate sin. I hate when I fail my Lord and sin. I try every day to not sin. I try everyday to keep God's commandments, all of them. When I do fail, sin, (and all of us do) I ask forgiveness.
I do this BECAUSE I love my Savior and I am saved, not to earn salvation or keep my salvation like some seem to be doing.

dcontroversal · Nov 22, 2016

PeterJens said:

There is a poetic reality here, not a nice one, but still real.

It is obvious EG & G7 believe they know Christ and the real gospel.
They once were part of traditional congregations, believing evangelical theology but now
stand apart. They espouse they are in the truth, that most of the church is lost, evil, possibly
unsaved doomed to hell.

I have probably shared all that is in my heart and my biblical understanding but it is like a
pea shooter bouncing off their distortions, and extreme positions.

Now I do not know why their hearts are so jaded, but the reality is they believe they are
right and we are totally deluded. So in a very real sense they have lost their faith in the
biblical sense we would put it, and are dangerous to believers in their undermining basic
spiritual growth and walk in purity and holiness.

I cannot say they were never of us, but the things they now reject are so part of the gospel
I can only believe these issues do not matter to them anymore.

My experience of people like this is 10 years from now they will not be part of any fellowship
and will just be jaded ex-believers. It happens because once you chew up others for the wrong
faith, you refine and refine until no one is good enough for wherever you end up, because it all
has nothing to do with faith, but an emotional engine that is destroying everything to stop things
falling apart. But they do in the end, because this engine needs stopping and healing, not running
riot.

Kind of like Jesus ended up with 12....a very small MINORITY.....no offence, but maybe history is repeating itself.....A majority within any particular religion, group etc does not necessarily = that they are right....nor does it mean the minority is wrong........

just saying......Jesus said...where 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name.................

Persuaded · Nov 22, 2016

dcontroversal said:

Yea, when Jesus returns He will not find a multitude, He will find a few.

PeterJens · Nov 22, 2016

dcontroversal said:

OUR SPIRIT is born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED, DOES NOT SIN, IS ETERNALLY SECURE, SAVED, SEALED JUSTIFIED AND SANCTIFIED IN CHRIST

Mental hospitals are full of people who split their personalities into a perfect identity
and the evil twin, who loves sin. But his is just duelist delusion and a denial of your
sinful drives, emotions and heart. It stops dead any real growth or resolution, because
you are disowning responsibility or control.

It appeals to those who wall off emotional responses and close down parts of their
personality they cannot cope with.

Now all the religious guff is just an excuse for escapism.
And yes we fully understand, because we have come to terms with who we are and
our sinful behaviour of the past, and know Jesus and love working in our hearts to
help us walk in purity, righteousness and holiness.

Now these are two such different worlds, it is no wonder you find it impossible to
conceive we know the Lord, because we are living in a complete view of ourselves
and you are not.

Until you begin to own your own sin, you will never find life, let alone Jesus.
It is little wonder repentance is so difficult to understand, because you have
nothing to repent of, it is your sinful flesh that will die.

dcontroversal · Nov 22, 2016

Persuaded said:

Same here....you know....I have come to the conclusion that God has allowed each of us to have particular areas where we all fail miserbly...so as to keep us humbled...and when I sin I too seek to be forgiven.....and despise my own failures....God gets the most glory from the BASE FOOLISH THINGS OF THE WORLD....not the hypocritical liars who say they are above sin!

Grace777x70 · Nov 22, 2016

More nonsense......I believe the church is saved and beloved of God. - safe with Him because they are in Christ. The church is not evil - the church is holy, blameless in the eyes of the Father. 1 Cor. 1:8 and Eph. 1:4 and Eph. 5:27.

Where people come up with this nonsense in the imaginations of their own minds - it is....pardon the pun - mind boggling.

What is going on in some people's minds to come up with this type of continuous nonsense?

We say : Look at the beautiful "blue" sky the Lord gave us."

Some say in return - "You are jaded and dangerous - the sky is not "green" - it is "blue" and everyone knows it is "blue". "

How do we deal with such a mindset? There is something wrong in Denmark and it's impossible to have a discussion of any type with this type of a mindset. It's best just to not have any interaction with them until they come out of that sort of nonsense.

psalm6819 · Nov 22, 2016

get ready for the dc smackdown, Peter

Persuaded · Nov 22, 2016

dcontroversal said:

Same here....you know....I have come to the conclusion that God has allowed each of us to have particular areas where we all fail miserbly...so as to keep us humbled...and when I sin I too seek to be forgiven.....and despise my own failures....God gets the most glory from the BASE FOOLISH THINGS OF THE WORLD....not the hypocritical liars who say they are above sin!

Amen brother.

dcontroversal · Nov 22, 2016

PeterJens said:

OUR SPIRIT is born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED, DOES NOT SIN, IS ETERNALLY SECURE, SAVED, SEALED JUSTIFIED AND SANCTIFIED IN CHRIST

Mental hospitals are full of people who split their personalities into a perfect identity
and the evil twin, who loves sin. But his is just duelist delusion and a denial of your
sinful drives, emotions and heart. It stops dead any real growth or resolution, because
you are disowning responsibility or control.

It appeals to those who wall off emotional responses and close down parts of their
personality they cannot cope with.

Now all the religious guff is just an excuse for escapism.
And yes we fully understand, because we have come to terms with who we are and
our sinful behaviour of the past, and know Jesus and love working in our hearts to
help us walk in purity, righteousness and holiness.

Now these are two such different worlds, it is no wonder you find it impossible to
conceive we know the Lord, because we are living in a complete view of ourselves
and you are not.

Until you begin to own your own sin, you will never find life, let alone Jesus.
It is little wonder repentance is so difficult to understand, because you have
nothing to repent of, it is your sinful flesh that will die.

Look, you can deny Paul, John and even the very words of Jesus if you seek to be a fool...all three spoke of, taught of and set forth the truth of what I posted...so....to quote a friend from Australia...whatevz.......!

Grace777x70 · Nov 22, 2016

psalm6819 said:

LOL..he probably is not going to like being compared to a mental patient.

The natural mind of man is always not understanding the gospel of Christ and the new creation in Christ, the new heart joined as one spirit with the Lord. The circumcision of the heart from the flesh is a mystery to them. Col. 2:11

Some called it a "dis-associative disorder"...lol...that one actually made me laugh when I first saw that. Bless their darling hearts and stupid heads.

dcontroversal · Nov 22, 2016

PeterJens said:

Explain.....The Spirit is indeed willing but the FLESH IS WEAK......

Explain....With my mind I serve the law of God; but with the Flesh the law of sin and death

You know...I am not even going to condescend and drag the truth through your mud of ignorance....Paul, Jesus and John all spoke concerning the dual nature of a saved man still bound in a body of sin....

You and your pals who deny the truth are a prime examples of those who miss the forest because of the proverbial trees!

Grace777x70 · Nov 22, 2016

dcontroversal said:

The poster to are talking to thinks that the spirit of man is his attitude.

There is a lot of work to be done trying to go from that to the fact that we have a new creation in Christ - that our inner man is joined as one spirit with the Lord. It has been created in righteousness and holiness. It has the very same righteousness as Christ because we are in Christ.

Romans here would be a complete mystery to us if we didn't understand what happened to us when we became a new creation.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Willful sin and the sin of ignorance

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