Women Pastors? Help me.

[StanJ]

One final try. PLEASE STANJ, acknowledge HIM as your Bridegroom, you are not the first to misunderstand the City as the Bride:

Your cognitive dissonance must be really acting up?
Tell me are you one of the ten virgins in Matthew 25, or the bride, or one of the guests in Matthew 9:15?
From where I sit I don't think you're know who or what you are.

 

[StanJ]

Re: WHO IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST?

I have addressed it several times, you for some reason do not understand the we, the sum total of born again believers being present in that NEW DWELLING PLACE HE PROMISED US, are what makes it eligible to even be referred to as the Bride, not the City, nor the Buildings itself. The NEW CITY JERUSALEM is the BRIDAL CHAMBER.

Actually you have avoided it and deflected to the same garbage as here. What does Rev 21:9-10 say?

 

[samuel23]

Prepared as a bride...maybe. I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife...clear.

 

[VCO]

Your cognitive dissonance must be really acting up?
Tell me are you one of the ten virgins in Matthew 25, or the bride, or one of the guests in Matthew 9:15?
From where I sit I don't think you're know who or what you are.

I TOTALLY believe the Parable of Ten Virgins is a picture Prophecy of the Bridegroom, Jesus Christ calling out His Bride the Sum Total of all the True Believers that make up the ASSEMBLY HE has been building from ADAM on.

2 Peter 3:3-4 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."

 

[VCO]

You mean just as you have done throughout the initial subject of this thread? You actually haven't given any biblical evidence, you've copied & pasted a whole lot of pictures and junk from some other sites and didn't even give credit to them.

By the way Jay Vernon McGee holds no weight with me whatsoever.

Hosea 2:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]In that day— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— you will call ⌊Me⌋, “My husband,” and no longer call Me, “My Baal.”

Hosea 2:18-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]On that day I will make a covenant for them with the wild animals, the birds of the sky, and the creatures that crawl on the ground. I will shatter bow, sword, and weapons of war in the land and will enable the people to rest securely.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]I will take you to be My wife forever.
I will take you to be My wife in righteousness,
justice, love, and compassion.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I will take you to be My wife in faithfulness, and you will know Yahweh.

 

[StanJ]

Hosea 2:16 (HCSB)

Hosea is about Israel under the Old Covenant, not the Body of Christ under the New Covenant. The Hebrew doesn't use the word 'wife'.

You know there is an old saying that says better to keep quiet and keep people guessing if you're a fool than opening your mouth and removing all doubt.
The more you post the more you prove my point that you know absolutely nothing about the Bible in context.

 

[StanJ]

I TOTALLY believe the Parable of Ten Virgins is a picture Prophecy of the Bridegroom, Jesus Christ calling out His Bride the Sum Total of all the True Believers that make up the ASSEMBLY HE has been building from ADAM on.
2 Peter 3:3-4 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."

You didn't answer my questions as usual. Are you one of the ten virgins or are you the bride or are you the guest?
They are all there at the same time so which one are you?

 

[Blindedbylight]

In my personal opinion, taking 1 Tim. 2 into account, I am against female pastors. Since the man is deemed the head of the house as Christ is head of the church (Ephesians 5) I personally consider it un-Biblical for a woman to be a pastor, since it would be a role-reversal of what is revealed in the Bible. To me, a woman being a pastor would be synonymous with Christ not being the head of the church.

 

[VCO]

Re: WHO IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST?

Actually you have avoided it and deflected to the same garbage as here. What does Rev 21:9-10 say?

Yes I know what it says and I know the difference between Symbolism and what the Symbolism represents.

Do you even KNOW THE BRIDEGROOM PERSONALLY?


I know the Bridegroom Intimately and VERY, VERY PERSONALLY. AND I WAIT FOR HIM!


Titus 2:13 (NIV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Matthew 25:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!'


And here you are:


2 Peter 3:3-4 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."

 

[Dino246]

Did this thread get off-topic AGAIN?

 

[VCO]

Re: WHO IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST?

Sure, as soon as you address the scripture I've quoted a few times now...What does it say?

I have a better idea, how about you examine what it MEANS by what is SAYS.

21:9 One of the seven angels involved in the bowl judgments offered to give John a further, more detailed view of the New Jerusalem, which he called the bride, the Lamb's wife. This may mean that the city is the residence of the bride.

Believers Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.

I will show thee the bride, the Lamb‘s wife - I will show you what represents the redeemed church now to be received into permanent union with its Lord - as a bride about to be united to her husband. See the notes on ver. 2. Compare Revelation 19:7-8.

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible

I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. The "Lamb" is Christ, who is often so called in this book; see Revelation 5:6 Revelation 19:7 and is the Son of God, the heir of all things, the Maker and Governor of the universe, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; and who, as Mediator, has all accomplishments and qualifications to recommend him as a bridegroom, such as beauty, riches, and wisdom: the bride, his wife, is not any particular believer, nor any particular church; not the Gentile church, nor the Jewish church only, but all the elect of God, consisting of the raised and living saints at the coming of Christ; who will make up one body, one general assembly, and be as a bride, prepared and adorned for her husband: these were first betrothed to Christ in eternity, and were openly espoused by him, one by one, at conversion; and now being all gathered in by the effectual calling, the dead being raised, and the living changed, and all glorified, the marriage is consummated, and they are declared publicly to be the bride, the Lamb's wife; See Gill on Matthew 22:2. And now, though John had had a sight of her before, Revelation 21:2 yet that was but a glimmering one, at a distance, he being in the wilderness, Revelation 17:3 wherefore the angel calls him to him, and proposes to give him a clear, distinct, and particular view of her, in all her glory; and a glorious sight this indeed! to see the bride brought to the King in raiment of needlework, and the queen stand at his right hand in gold of Ophir. This is a sight of a quite different nature from that of the filthy strumpet, which the same angel proposed to give to John in Revelation 17:1.

John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible

I will show thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife; I will show thee the whole church, (invisible heretofore), the glorious state of the church triumphant, under the representation of a great city.

Matthew Poole's English Annotations on the Holy Bible

I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife ... This word makes it mandatory to interpret the new Jerusalem as representing the glorified church of Christ.

Coffman's Commentaries on the Bible

The bride, the Lamb’s wife—The holy Church, which has now passed through the resurrection to her glorified state. Note Revelation 19:7.

Whedon's Commentary on the Bible

Inaugurating John's personal tour of heaven's capital city, the angel came and spoke with the apostle, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." As noted in the discussion of 21:2 in chapter 18 of this volume, the New Jerusalem is described as a bride because it draws its character from its occupants. Those occupants consist of the bride of the Lamb, a title originally given to the church (19:7), but now enlarged to encompass all the redeemed of all the ages, who live there forever. The New Jerusalem is likened to a bride because the redeemed are forever united to God and the Lamb. It is further defined as the wife of the Lamb because the marriage has taken place (19:7).

MacArthur New Testament Commentary, The - MacArthur New Testament Commentary – Revelation 12-22.

Shall I go on?

 

[StanJ]

Re: WHO IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST?

Yes I know what it says and I know the difference between Symbolism and what the Symbolism represents.
Do you even KNOW THE BRIDEGROOM PERSONALLY?
I know the Bridegroom Intimately and VERY, VERY PERSONALLY. AND I WAIT FOR HIM!

Obviously not.

 

[StanJ]

Re: WHO IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST?

I have a better idea, how about you examine what it MEANS by what is SAYS.
Shall I go on?

Only if you actually have some original thought and don't keep parroting others.
You definitely must be a calvinist because that's all you quote, which I guess is understandable seeing as you don't seem capable of original thought, so if that's all you've got then no I don't think you should go on.

 

[StanJ]

Did this thread get off-topic AGAIN?

Sorry, I do get easily sucked in when people are so off base.

 

[VCO]

Re: WHO IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST?

Originally Posted by VCO

Yes I know what it says and I know the difference between Symbolism and what the Symbolism represents.
Do you even KNOW THE BRIDEGROOM PERSONALLY?
I know the Bridegroom Intimately and VERY, VERY PERSONALLY. AND I WAIT FOR HIM!

Obviously not.

Genuinely KNOWING the Bridegroom Jesus Christ is what BORN AGAIN, truly is; not some ecstatic utterance experience.

This is turning into a study on the Symbolisms of the Book of Revelation, so I will drop checking this thread after this post.

The very first book in the Bible written in the Apocalyptic style was Daniel. This book was completed round about 530 BC., shortly after the capture of Babylon by Cyrus the Persian in 539 BC. Modern scholars tend to claim that the book is much later than that (often dating it to the second century BC) because they know it contains prophecies which were fulfilled; this is based on the Naturalistic philosophy that prophecy is simply impossible. Many such liberal scholars have also claimed that it is mostly fiction - but they are regularly losing ground as more and more archeological evidence emerges which increasingly backs up the authority of the Old Testament.

Apocalyptic literature was a new genre of prophetic/poetic writing that developed around the time of Daniel and it is quite possible that the Book of Daniel itself was one of the things that launched the new enthusiasm for apocalyptic writing!
We might ask why this form of poetic/prophetic writing suddenly became so popular, and yet even today mysterious and somewhat cloudy claims about the future are massively popular - there is nothing new here whatsoever!


Okay, so what are some of the characteristics of Apocalyptic style writing?


An apocalypse can be described as a literary report of a fearful, often violent, vision that reveals truths about the past, present and future in highly symbolic and poetical style. The writer/poet may represent himself as transported into a heavenly realm, or the vision may be unveiled— and even interpreted— by an angelic messenger. Apocalyptic exhortations are aimed at chastening and reforming their hearers with threats of punishment and rewards in the coming "end times." Yet apocalyptic writing was also concerned with giving encouragement to the oppressed. A brief apocalyptic vision can be found in Mark 13 and this is sometimes called the "Little Apocalypse" and parallel passages can be found in Matthew 24 and Luke 21.
Why Did John Use Apocalyptic to Write Revelation?

Mountains, Heads, and Horns, symbolize Nations or Kings

Beast symbolizes a satanically controlled evil Dictator. (Example: Hitler was a type of Beast, but there is a worse one coming.)

Ten Horns symbolizes a ten nation confederacy, or many nation confederacy; because ten can also symbolize many.

What does it mean by three horns will torn up by their roots. Those who are old enough will have witnessed that very thing happening to one nation. It literally is as if East Germany was torn up by it's roots. It could be the literal number TEN nations in that confederacy, the Beast (Dictator) ends up ruling over the City of SEVEN MOUNTAINS (Kingdoms), because three were torn up by their roots. NO that is not a reference to the seven Hills of Rome, Mountains are symbolism for Nations or Kingdoms.

Thus with an overwhelming amount of symbolism in the Book of Revelation; it is easy to understand why the New City Jerusalem symbolizes the Bride within that City.

If someone want to start a THREAD on "THE SYMBOLISMS IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION", I will join in. If someone wants to hear where I learned the teachings on the symbolisms in the Book of Revelation, they are Sermons by Dr. John MacArthur. And there are about 37 hours in his verse by verse Sermon Series on Revelation, and I listened to all of them 4 times each.

Listen to at least the first tape in that Series, as it is an overview of the entire Series. It is called "A Jet Tour Through Revelation".

https://www.gty.org/library/resources/sermons-library/scripture/1?book=66&chapter=All

 

[StanJ]

Re: WHO IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST?

Genuinely KNOWING the Bridegroom Jesus Christ is what BORN AGAIN, truly is; not some ecstatic utterance experience.
This is turning into a study on the Symbolisms of the Book of Revelation, so I will drop checking this thread after this post.

You can't genuinely know Jesus Christ if you don't believe everything he said to begin with. That is another Jesus that Paul warned us about not to listen to.

Mountains, Heads, and Horns, symbolize Nations or Kings
Beast symbolizes a satanically controlled evil Dictator. (Example: Hitler was a type of Beast, but there is a worse one coming.)
Ten Horns symbolizes a ten nation confederacy, or many nation confederacy; because ten can also symbolize many.
What does it mean by three horns will torn up by their roots. Those who are old enough will have witnessed that very thing happening to one nation. It literally is as if East Germany was torn up by it's roots. It could be the literal number TEN nations in that confederacy, the Beast (Dictator) ends up ruling over the City of SEVEN MOUNTAINS (Kingdoms), because three were torn up by their roots. NO that is not a reference to the seven Hills of Rome, Mountains are symbolism for Nations or Kingdoms.
Thus with an overwhelming amount of symbolism in the Book of Revelation; it is easy to understand why the New City Jerusalem symbolizes the Bride within that City.
If someone want to start a THREAD on "THE SYMBOLISMS IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION", I will join in. If someone wants to hear where I learned the teachings on the symbolisms in the Book of Revelation, they are Sermons by Dr. John MacArthur. And there are about 37 hours in his verse by verse Sermon Series on Revelation, and I listened to all of them 4 times each.
Listen to at least the first tape in that Series, as it is an overview of the entire Series. It is called "A Jet Tour Through Revelation".

Sometimes mountains are just mountains. What nation or King is being symbolized in Rev 21:10?
If you can't tell the difference between hyperbole or symbolism or reality then I suggest you stop reading Revelation. Verse 9 says I will show you 'the bride', not 'the place where the bride will reside'.
The wonder you're so confused you vacillate between one-way reading the Bible and another way of reading the Bible depending on your predispose point of view. You need to learn to read the Bible in a hermeneuticaly sound way, and that does not mean becoming a devotee of John MacArthur.

 

[VCO]

Hosea is about Israel under the Old Covenant, not the Body of Christ under the New Covenant. The Hebrew doesn't use the word 'wife'.

You know there is an old saying that says better to keep quiet and keep people guessing if you're a fool than opening your mouth and removing all doubt.
The more you post the more you prove my point that you know absolutely nothing about the Bible in context.

Matthew 16:18 (ESV)
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Does anyone else know that the word CHURCH is NOT in the Greek manuscripts?

So what did Jesus actually say then?


The actual Greek word was ASSEMBLY, but apparently because when they were Translating the first English Translation of the Bible, the English speaking Believers were already calling their Assembly "the Church"; the Translators therefore just substituted the word Church for the Literal Translation, ASSEMBLY.

<Quote>
Greek NASB Number: 1577

Greek Word: ἐκκλησία

Transliterated Word: [FONT=Gentium !important]ekklêsia[/FONT]
Root: from 1537 and 2564;

Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation:--


New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.<End Quote>

Hence, Young's Literal Translation got the literal translation correct:

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]`And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;


I believe that is important, because it is the EXACT same Term as what HE called the congregation of True Believers in the Old Testament. That I think, is strong evidence that the Assembly HE is building began with ADAM, whereas, the non-Biblical term "Church" only refers to N.T. Believers.

Seeing that in reality, Jesus said He would build His ASSEMBLY; opens another question worthy of examining. When is the Birthday of the Church? I think most would agree, that it is the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit came with a mighty wind and tongues of fire landing on their heads. Yes, later that same day, there were messages being taught in languages that the Disciples had never learned, correct right down to the correct accents of each hearer; but that was more of a fulfillment of Prophecy than a sign of the Birthday of the Church.

Isaiah 28:11 (NCV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]So the LORD will use strange words and foreign languages to speak to these people.

Therefore if we want to pinpoint where the Birthday of the Church took place, we would probably all say, "In the upper room when the Holy Spirit came on the Day of Pentecost."

With all that in mind, let's look at another portion of Scripture that may now give us a better perspective of who all HE is talking about:

John 10:14-16 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,
[SUP]15 [/SUP]just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.


Since we know the Birthday of the Church is not until the Day of Pentecost after his Resurrection, I believe we should now reexamine who He was talking to and who actually is the other fold HE was referring to. I know most of us have always been taught that the two folds are Jews and Gentiles; however now it appears that would be incorrect. HE IS BUILDING HIS ASSEMBLY OF TRUE BELIEVERS. Are not the people He is talking to above the last of the O.T. ASSEMBLY of True Believers?

That would make the other fold yet in the future from the TIME HE SPOKE THAT REFERENCE to "other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also", making them the entire N.T. Assembly of True Believers; and that would also make both Assemblies, Co-equally THE ASSEMBLY HE IS BUILDING and co-equally the BRIDE of CHRIST.

Isaiah 62:5 (GW)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]As a young man marries a woman, so your sons will marry you. As a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so your God will rejoice over you.


If you think that cannot be, because the Faiths are different, then you certainly are looking at it from the wrong perspective.


The O.T. Assembly of True Believers believed GOD would send a Messiah to Save them from their sins.

The N.T. Assembly of True Believers believe God did send a Messiah to Save us from our sins.


THAT IS THE SAME FAITH, the Faith of Abraham.


Now PLEASE, let it go, and agree to disagree already.

 

[StanJ]

Does anyone else know that the word CHURCH is NOT in the Greek manuscripts?

Now PLEASE, let it go, and agree to disagree already.

Good for you to realize that Greek and English are two different languages. What exactly is your point and how does it relate to my post?

As you're the one that keeps copying and pasting most of the Bible and all of John MacArthur's comments in here I would suggest that you let it go and learn how to fend for yourself, because you sure don't seem to know exactly what you believe and what you don't. I think the best course of action for use to stop commenting. It is obvious to anyone who has been following this thread that you and I don't agree one iota. Do you really need to be told?

 

[VCO]

Re: WHO IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST?

Only if you actually have some original thought and don't keep parroting others.
You definitely must be a calvinist because that's all you quote, which I guess is understandable seeing as you don't seem capable of original thought, so if that's all you've got then no I don't think you should go on.

No, I do not believe in two of the Five Points of Calvinists, so they disown me, and the Armenians disown me because I do believe three points of Calvinism. So Conservative Evangelical Christian is the only label you can pin on me.

What you call parroting others is called Discipleship in the Bible, something we are supposed to believe in.

Those played a role in my being discipled are:

The Bible teachers that have played a role in my being discipled
and had the most influence on my spiritual growth are:

Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. - http://www.gty.org/ sermons dating back to the early 70s - free to listen to.
Dr. Adrian Rogers - Listen to Adrian Rogers - Love Worth Finding Radio Online
Dr. Charles Stanley - http://www.intouch.org/
Dr. Richard Lee - First Redeemer Church | Duluth | Cumming | Alpharetta
Dr. Zola Levitt - http://www.levitt.tv/media/watch/118 - some free - videos
Dr. Ed Young - http://www.winningwalk.org/t-bio.aspx
Dr. Gil Rugh - http://www.ihcc.org/ - free sermons dating back to the late 70s - free
Dr. Chuck Swindoll - Listen to Chuck Swindoll - Insight for Living Radio Online
Dr. Walter Martin - https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/martin_walter/
Dr. Ben Haden - Why
Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost - Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost (1915–2014) -
Dr. Dave Hunt - https://www.thebereancall.org/
Eliezer Urbach, associated with Jews for Jesus - Eliezer Urbach - Jews for Jesus

As well as the Pastors of Churches that I attended; especially Pastor Neil Berry and Pastor Gordan Broadbent.


So here is where you went wrong.
The Scriptures say:

Ephesians 4:11-13 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up
[SUP]13 [/SUP] until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Matthew 28:19-20 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go therefore and make disciples {NOT FREE THINKERS WITH ORIGINAL THOUGHTS} of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.


And thus you drifted way off course with your free thinking and original thought.

 

[garee]

The church is not the bride of Christ it is the body of Christ. The bride of Christ is the New Jerusalem.

The body of Christ is the church. She in respect to her new incorruptible body is referred to as the wife, Christ the husband.

She in a spiritual way(not seen) is made up of many lively stones called the house of God.She will come down from heaven prepared as His bride. She is made up of all the Old testament saints who have the Spirit of Christ(born again) referred to as gates. Twelve is used to represent all the saints who had the Spirit of Christ in them ,and the saints on this side of the cross who have the same Spirit of Christ (born again) referred to foundations called apostles(sent ones). Together they make up one bride .

1Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Or it could be said the pillar and foundation of truth.

1Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Noman knows what our new incorruptible bodies will be like but we do know we willbe like the angels (no procreation).

If He desires to call this new creation Hisbride why would any person object.It would be like in Isiah 29; shall the thing framed say ofhim that framed it, He had no understanding?

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.