Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

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Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,783
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yeah you got it, here is the course list you should have clicked on...

http://www.rbtc.org/PDFs/Course_Descriptions.pdf

the prof you have to email i guess for a list of names, thats what admin said.

but for the classes, look ate the bible studies classes. and btw you don't need a Ph.D to teach the missions class of basic life class. the missions classes are taught by men and women who have been in that field or have the necessary skills for the job. and the classes on finance are taught by a man with a degree in accounting and hes the one who manages the church finances. they teach the biblical and practical approach to ministry.

but hey go ahead and avoid the context in my post, its sad because if you were actually right you would take my post and pick apart the scripture i used. but since your wrong and can't you attack my school, good job just like the Baptist you are...

"By the way, my Seminary was Baptist"

your words, part of a denomination that screams on street corners as people go by that God hates them and there going to hell. protesting funerals of soldiers.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/military-funeral-protests/

thats the kind of person you are, it shows in your post! and i guess you are probably OSAS so you think you can act however you feel! is that right, or am i taking things out of context on your denominational views? and i judging you on a few extreme instances?
its cause our classes actually have context more than you think, people smarter than you have seen that.
then why are you putting all WoF people in the same category? i just had to wait for you to post one of your denomination, bring up an extremist in it, compare you to it, and wait for your response like this. and of course you walked into it Bluto. i even tacked it onto a legit post to make sure you got it.

i could put that to you, in your own words for all the post you have put. lumping us all in to PG or name it claim it or any other extreme that came out of WoF.

you stepped right into that Bluto...

First, I did click on your link, before you posted it here. I downloaded the PDF and read it all. I saw courses in theology about "Angels and Demons" and "Dispensationalism".

Angels and demons do not constitute an semester long course. That really shocked me that people would waste time on this sort of Angelogy, when there is so much to actually learn about God, salvation and the Bible.

Learning about Dispensationalism is fine. Lots of people I know believe that, although I disagree for strong biblical reasons. In fact, we studied it in our unit on eschatology. But we also studied the three other options, and read things written by people with that viewpoint. I had one prof who was classical pre-mill, pre-trib eschatology,and another who was Partial Preterist/Amill. They both said they believed what they felt was the Biblical solution, but we needed to search the Word and pray.

It was so nice not being judged as a heretic because I was amill. And really informative to read the different viewpoints, right up to and including superlapsarianism. LOL! And in the end of theology, another professor did an interesting video, explaining each of the 4 eschatological views, and the Scriptures that supported it, and which scholars favoured each view. Then a comparison chart. That is being educated and being taught how to discern the truth. Again, I have no problem with other viewpoints, as long as they have been well researched, and prayed about. As for eschatology, I remember a fellow student, one with an incredible calling by God said "After all, eschatology is just an educated guess, in the end!" Although not other doctrines, I admit.

And that is what a real Bible education, at any level, should do for you. It should not be indoctrinating, but rather showing all the options, and encouraging the students to dig deep research and pray for God to show them the truth. And so, unless you have courses which equally talk about the other viewpoints, including classical premillennialism, which is a little more sound exegetically, then you have been indoctrinated.

Again, the big lack was Biblical languages. Of course, this being a college, and more interested in diplomas, it is to be expected that Greek and Hebrew will not be taught and that is ok. What is not ok, Wanderer is presenting yourself as someone who knows Greek, when in fact you are doing internet concordance copy and pastes. I am interested to hear your viewpoints, (although less so in light of the fact that you still have not responded to my OP!), but not English back to Greek Strong's. Of course, you are free to post those things, but just don't make yourself out to be a Biblical scholar, when you do not have the background to be a Biblical scholar, which is a lot more than just Biblical languages.

I did like the huge number of book courses, although in the 3 seminaries I attended (some for transfer credit) a book study was the last thing most seminaries present, unless they were done in the Biblical language. We did those in my seminary, but they were not on-line, so I could not attend them.

And pardon me wanderer for thinking you went to Rhema, when in fact, you were just taking transfer courses. I agree with Bluto, kind of shocked a Wesleyan college would accept credits from Rhema. Of course, that may just be certain courses.

@Bluto - As for the accreditation, I also saw that, and read about it. I was pleased there are checks and balances, especially regarding finances, although I don't recognize the governing authority, the point is there is one. So good for that!

As for being Baptist, you really show your ignorance of the wide range of churches and conventions using that label. To be truthful, the history of "baptists" is that we are not subject to any governing body, nor their sanctionis for or against. Of course that includes independent fundamentalists like Westboro, which is closer to a cult than being an independent Baptist church from what I have read. As for the Southern Baptist, after the ultra conservative take over of the denomination in the 1990's many people left. Texas formed their own state convention and have an excellent theological school, just finishing off its accreditation. I hope to do a Ph.D there, should my health stay stable.

Canadian Baptists are very different, even the Southern Baptist one! I have been in three denomination, and I am looking into transferring my ordination to the one I am attending. Is it perfect? Nope! I do feel it is sliding a bit too far to the left, and I guess that would be another reason to get involved, to keep that fine line from moving downslope. Different conventions emphasize different aspects of Scripture, which is why there are so many.

And I did specifically say we had people from every denomination in Canada in our seminary. And that is true of other Seminaries. There really aren't a lot of seminaries left, and as long as they are accredited, there is no reason people can't attend a Baptist, or Lutheran or Mennonite etc. Seminary.

As for ministry, that really is the purpose of seminary. The courses like Biblilcal languages, Survey Courses, Biblical backgrounds are tools for ministry. I didn't figure that our for a while! And do I appreciate those tools. God has led me to a church, where I am part of the teaching team, and when God calls, he shows me the way, using what I have learned.

As for missions qualifications, our evangelism and missions courses were taught by former missionaries. The mission prof was in China for many years, and today he helps out in a Mandarin church. He said that the women do all the preaching, which is cultural, despite this was a Southern Baptist church plant, and they do not believe in woman preachers. Of course, besides years of missions works, he has a Ph.D The evangelism professor had been a missionary in Hungary for many years. But she only had a MDiv. And had to go back to seminary to get her Ph.D to teach it. Because that is what ATS demands!

Unfortunately for WoF, too many televangelists have tarnished the name badly. However, as I have shown in post after post, there really is no basis for this claiming total healing. And I can also dealing with the "wealth" side if anyone wants, but maybe in another thread?

Anyway, any institute of higher learning that I have been to the profs and where they studies are always listed on the website. And of course you are Arminian, that is normal for most Pentecostals! I was before I started reading the Bible. Although, I certainly and firmly believe that obedience MUST follow salvation, or was that person really saved? But that is another thread, something debated endlessly in the past.

As for you countering my OP, especially the stuff about Isa. 53. I have yet to see it. And please do stop with the insults. I started this thread specifically to talk about the Bible.I have tried to analyze the Scriptures posted in favour of WoF but I confess, a page full of assorted and unrelated verses is not what I was talking about. I was talking about exegetical dialogues. Just as no one has addressed my verses, particularly Isa. 53 not being in the atonement, don't expect me to counter every 7 words someone posts. I will address major issues, but only with people who have geniunely addressed my OP. Which right now, is no one.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,783
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And for people who don't understand, the above post is NOT exegetical. Just to make that clear.
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
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that is what a real Bible education, at any level, should do for you. It should not be indoctrinating, but rather showing all the options, and encouraging the students to dig deep research and pray for God to show them the truth. And so, unless you have courses which equally talk about the other viewpoints, including classical premillennialism, which is a little more sound exegetically, then you have been indoctrinated.
they teach all the options, even if we or they disagree. and encourage us to seek truth out in the word. I am permill and don't like going into the other views but for a final grade that passes, i kinda have to. but they teach on multiple view points, even Gods will for healing, there are different views within the WoF.

Again, the big lack was Biblical languages. Of course, this being a college, and more interested in diplomas, it is to be expected that Greek and Hebrew will not be taught and that is ok. What is not ok, Wanderer is presenting yourself as someone who knows Greek, when in fact you are doing internet concordance copy and pastes. I am interested to hear your viewpoints, (although less so in light of the fact that you still have not responded to my OP!), but not English back to Greek Strong's. Of course, you are free to post those things, but just don't make yourself out to be a Biblical scholar, when you do not have the background to be a Biblical scholar, which is a lot more than just Biblical languages.
evey theo class has Greek and Hebrew. every one, some people in my classes hate if i love it. trust me sister, i was saved loving if, my first none denom church i was saved in the pastor taught me Greek and hebrew, braking it down with multiple sorces. its a love of mine. and it shows because if my post were wrong and out of context. again you would take them and put it before me how they are wrong. have you done that once, no. so till you can you are just full of hot ari and opinion.


And pardon me wanderer for thinking you went to Rhema, when in fact, you were just taking transfer courses. I agree with Bluto, kind of shocked a Wesleyan college would accept credits from Rhema. Of course, that may just be certain courses.

@Bluto - As for the accreditation, I also saw that, and read about it. I was pleased there are checks and balances, especially regarding finances, although I don't recognize the governing authority, the point is there is one. So good for that!
see my next post.

As for being Baptist, you really show your ignorance of the wide range of churches and conventions using that label. To be truthful, the history of "baptists" is that we are not subject to any governing body, nor their sanctionis for or against. Of course that includes independent fundamentalists like Westboro, which is closer to a cult than being an independent Baptist church from what I have read. As for the Southern Baptist, after the ultra conservative take over of the denomination in the 1990's many people left. Texas formed their own state convention and have an excellent theological school, just finishing off its accreditation. I hope to do a Ph.D there, should my health stay stable.

Unfortunately for WoF, too many televangelists have tarnished the name badly. However, as I have shown in post after post, there really is no basis for this claiming total healing. And I can also dealing with the "wealth" side if anyone wants, but maybe in another thread?
it shows your ignorance and hypocrisy that you can say all you can and then assume the next part. you know nothing of the base of the WoF doctrine and just assume from what you have heard about from the two subjects taken out of context. only a fool makes a judgment on what they are not fully persuaded in.

of course you are Arminian, that is normal for most Pentecostals! I was before I started reading the Bible. Although, I certainly and firmly believe that obedience MUST follow salvation, or was that person really saved? But that is another thread, something debated endlessly in the past.
you mean american right lol and glad to hear you are not OSAS.

As for you countering my OP, especially the stuff about Isa. 53. I have yet to see it. And please do stop with the insults. I started this thread specifically to talk about the Bible.I have tried to analyze the Scriptures posted in favour of WoF but I confess, a page full of assorted and unrelated verses is not what I was talking about. I was talking about exegetical dialogues. Just as no one has addressed my verses, particularly Isa. 53 not being in the atonement, don't expect me to counter every 7 words someone posts. I will address major issues, but only with people who have geniunely addressed my OP. Which right now, is no one.
then you need to look back through the post because i did sister and you did not give a scriptural response at all.
i have posted in context, i have given you proof tied neatly together and wait for a in kind response and i get your opinions, that is more insulting than anything i have said to you. frankly i have not insulted you once, i even respect your viewpoint, but i say it is lacking. you on the other hand dismiss me over age and "education" and don't even look into the context of what i say. stop saying no one has countered you, you have been challenged, you have been countered, you just hide from it for you cannot contend with it.
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
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Now there you go wanderer, jumping headlong without carefully reading what I said. I said, "I belong to the catholic church where Jesus Christ is the head. Think about that? So did you think about it? No!

The word "catholic" in the Greek means universal. In other words I belong to the universal Christian church where Jesus Christ is the head, not the Pope as you think. See what happens when you "assume?" And you call yourself a "college" boy? Read the following:

Acts 9:31 (Greek Bible), "ai men oun ekklēsiai kath olēs tēs ioudaias kai
galilaias kai samareias eichon eirēnēn oikodomoumenai kai poreuomenai tō phobō
tou kuriou kai tē paraklēsei tou agiou pneumatos eplēthunonto" EKKLESIA
KATH'OLES.

The term "Catholic", derived from the Greek word καθολικός
(katholikos), which means "universal" or "general", was also used to describe
the Church in the early 2nd century. The term katholikos is equivalent to
καθόλου (katholou), a contraction of the phrase καθ' ὅλου (kath' holou) meaning
"according to the whole". Thus the full name Catholic Church roughly means
"universal" or "whole" church.

Personally I attend a Calvay Chapel Church which is non-denominational. And btw, you can't get more extremist since you follow hagin. Have you not read all of his so-called down home stories and how Jesus Christ personally appeared to him? And you still owe angela an apology. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
i dont care what you mean i was using you words to illustrate a point. and even so by your example you are doing the same thing, you think just because these men lead these churches that everything hangs on ever word they said. they don't, "jumping headlong without carefully reading what I said." that is what you have been doing with ever post i make, "did you think about it? No!" did you just jump in with your pre determined judgment and not thought to what i have posted, YES!

Bluto, you are the biggest hypocrite on this thread, stop trying to defend you ignorance. you are worse then the pharisees in that.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
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A) WoF is not a denomination, it is a doctrine

B) Most of orthodox Christianity (including the Admin team of this site) would consider WoF at best to be bad doctrine, and at worst to be outright heresy
Honestly, I don't understand why so many here on CC are so set against a simple truth of God's word that Paul taught. It appears to me that most of you are fighting against the truth. Didn't Paul preach the word of faith? Then aren't we suppose to do the same? Didn't he tell us to be like him? And isn't the word of faith the same as verbally speaking God's word in faith as His word says in Psalms?

Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

Another way of saying that would be "...hearkening to those who give voice to His word, or who speak forth His word."
It is not a sin to speak God's word in faith, or to remind God and the devil of His promises.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is how faith works.
And most times our situation differs from that which we believe in our heart and confess with out mouths, but the fact remains that it is a new testament teaching. So what is the problem if it is the truth of God's word? Oh, is it the health and wealth thingy? Fine, I can understand why you see things that way, so then speak against that doctrine, but not against something so clearly written as WOF. It is written and it is a truth of God, like it or not. It is in fact written throughout the bible. To speak against WOF is to reject the truth of God's word, which is fool hearty.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,043
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Well know1, maybe I can help you out regarding the word of faith (wof) movement. Please read the following site to give an idea of what this movement believes. The wof movement does not really have anything to do with Romans 10:8 per say. Like I said, check out the following site and if you want more information just google word of faith. https://www.scionofzion.com/wof.htm :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Dec 2, 2016
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I got into WOF because they were so positive and taught going out on a limb and exercising real faith in God. I got out when I realized their teachings were more about using God to get what you want in this life rather then serving God.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Now there you go wanderer, jumping headlong without carefully reading what I said. I said, "I belong to the catholic church where Jesus Christ is the head. Think about that? So did you think about it? No!
Christ is not the head of the Catholic Church .They have a visible head. They have replaced Christ, as if he was a man as us with a daysman that some call a Pope, the venerable(worship-able )one, also called the “Holy See” among other titles like the “Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church”. They simply do not walk by faith, Therefore the scriptures of themselves (sola scriptura) is not an authority. They insist we need a man to teach us..
.
Their daysman the Pope would be considered an infallible umpire that sits between God and man. Even the Son of man resisted being classified as a daysman. When approached as good infallible teacher, he would say only God is good. God has no form and refuses to be worshiped as if He did..

They completely disregard the truth that we do not need a man to teach us therefore usurping the authority of the Spirit of Christ, with that seen .

The word "catholic" in the Greek means universal. In other words I belong to the universal Christian church where Jesus Christ is the head, not the Pope as you think. See what happens when you "assume?" And you call yourself a "college" boy? Read the following:

Acts 9:31 (Greek Bible), "ai men oun ekklēsiai kath olēs tēs ioudaias kai
galilaias kai samareias eichon eirēnēn oikodomoumenai kai poreuomenai tō phobō
tou kuriou kai tē paraklēsei tou agiou pneumatos eplēthunonto" EKKLESIA
KATH'OLES.
The first sect/denomination listed on this side of the cross is the Nazarene sect or called the Way . The Catholic denomination is not listed in the scriptures. Catholic would mean the whole church, not just one of the many denominations that make her up.

The kingdom of God is not of this world .The Catholics teach otherwise.They would conclude that the denominations are fatherless children, that broke off from them.
 
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bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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I agree with you completely. I was trying to make a point with poster wanderer who is ensnared in the heretical teachings of word of faith. Of course his answer is the fact that he does not follow so-called extreme wof but follows a more medium type of wof which would include kenneth hagin who just happens to be dubbed the father of wof. However, the real wof father was E.W Kenyon who was associated with the mind-sciences and dad hagin "plagiarized" many of his writings. All of this is easily proved and documented. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
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Depleted

Guest
I am permill and don't like going into the other views but for a final grade that passes, i kinda have to.
it shows your ignorance and hypocrisy that you can say all you can and then assume the next part. you know nothing of the base of the WoF doctrine and just assume from what you have heard about from the two subjects taken out of context. only a fool makes a judgment on what they are not fully persuaded in.
i dont care what you mean i was using you words to illustrate a point. and even so by your example you are doing the same thing, you think just because these men lead these churches that everything hangs on ever word they said. they don't, "jumping headlong without carefully reading what I said." that is what you have been doing with ever post i make, "did you think about it? No!" did you just jump in with your pre determined judgment and not thought to what i have posted, YES!

Bluto, you are the biggest hypocrite on this thread, stop trying to defend you ignorance. you are worse then the pharisees in that.
So, you're mad because you think they do what you do? :confused:
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
I got into WOF because they were so positive and taught going out on a limb and exercising real faith in God. I got out when I realized their teachings were more about using God to get what you want in this life rather then serving God.

hmmmm

attempts at using God...

agreeing with the word is one thing, right?...but taking it and 'using' it to tell God what He should be doing is wrong

there is thin line there at times...we agree with God's promises...but I don't see where they are universal to all people at all times...some are contextual and meant for the people spoken to at the time the words were spoken

one promise is universal...believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!

the following from a few posts up, is an example of the distortion used by WOF as they grab at verses to back up their personal beliefs:

The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

these verses are speaking of salvation and they are true...but the faith is applied to saving faith...not name it and claim it

but they do imply we get what we speak nor do they have any sort of application apart from salvation

there are verses in or passages in scripture that actually do deal with our thoughts and how we speak, but even they do not imply what a WOF'er will tell you they do
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
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So, you're mad because you think they do what you do? :confused:
no i'm made because they don't even give my post a chance, i'm wrong before i say one word. but then they expect me to look at everything they say in detail. then they judge my church on a few teachers in the denomination, while tell me there denomination has isolated incidents of people, and not to judge them by those people.
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
57
48
Well know1, maybe I can help you out regarding the word of faith (wof) movement. Please read the following site to give an idea of what this movement believes. The wof movement does not really have anything to do with Romans 10:8 per say. Like I said, check out the following site and if you want more information just google word of faith. https://www.scionofzion.com/wof.htm :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
hey look you are judging a denomination of off a few people and a few words said again! :D how ignorant of you! :D
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
57
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I agree with you completely. I was trying to make a point with poster wanderer who is ensnared in the heretical teachings of word of faith. Of course his answer is the fact that he does not follow so-called extreme wof but follows a more medium type of wof which would include kenneth hagin who just happens to be dubbed the father of wof. However, the real wof father was E.W Kenyon who was associated with the mind-sciences and dad hagin "plagiarized" many of his writings. All of this is easily proved and documented. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
still waiting for you to post some scripture on how its false teaching, oh wait, you "catholic" by your definition, you must not read your bible... see i did what you are doing again.
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
no i'm made because they don't even give my post a chance, i'm wrong before i say one word. but then they expect me to look at everything they say in detail. then they judge my church on a few teachers in the denomination, while tell me there denomination has isolated incidents of people, and not to judge them by those people.


made mad you say?

who made you mad?

this is nutz...but I was just thinking the same thing

you sound like you think a conspiracy is at work

it's just you
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
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made mad you say?

who made you mad?

this is nutz...but I was just thinking the same thing

you sound like you think a conspiracy is at work

it's just you
sorry i meant mad, auto correct from accidentally pushing a at the end. and really Bluto, he doesn't even read post or post scripture. no conspiracy, just his and a lil of Angela's hypocrisy. sorry for your misunderstanding.
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
sorry i meant mad, auto correct from accidentally pushing a at the end. and really Bluto, he doesn't even read post or post scripture. no conspiracy, just his and a lil of Angela's hypocrisy. sorry for your misunderstanding.

oh

I dunno

I think it came out right..........:rolleyes:

I just can't be serious today for some reason