WORD OF FAITH., PROSPERITY GOSPEL????

[ladylynn]

First we ask things according to His will and plan. God's plan is to save the lost and to help those who are poor or sick. Second, you did not address 1 Timothy 6 at all. Are you afraid of what that chapter says? Some have erred from the faith in coveting after riches. Third, do you agree with "Got Questions" Article concernng the "Word of Faith" movement?














Am not sure why you think I don't agree with praying according to His will and plan. As a Christian, we are instructed to know and understand that we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. 2 Cor.4:7

This treasure is Jesus Christ in us. When we work out our salvation it is not "working for your salvation" it is working out what is in us..,Christ Jesus. His love, His holiness, His righteousness is all part of who we are. Our minds and our desires are changed from glory to glory as we behold Jesus. Taking it seriously with gravity. Not fear and trembling in the sense many have interpreted.

So our prayers go according to His will and purposes. And yet they are also our will and purpose now because He works in us "to will and to do of His good pleasure" It is a wonderful plan the Lord has worked out for us to join Him in. We become co-laborers with Him.

God's plan is not only to have us give out the good news of the Gospel but to be daily transformed into His image. I believe this all ties into 1 Tim. 6 as well. It is wonderful how God's Word always ties together when we study the principles of love and grace.

Self gratification is not what drives a Christian who is daily beholding Jesus. That would mean they are dead while they live. The motivation is not self glory but Christ glory.

If you see your fellow brother or sister blessed not only spiritually as they reflect Christ., but also with financial and physical health why do you condemn them when they give praise and thanks to God for meeting their needs and even going above and beyond what they could ever ask or think?? He is the God of MORE than enough. Why is it surprising to us when God out of the abundance of His love for us would chose to bless us as we live on earth as well? Not a big stretch for me since He gave His Dear Son. I believe we can be content with what we have and in that contentment for some reason God gives us even more. If you have questions about that you must go to the Lord for your answer. He is not a respecter of persons and promises to bless His children.

I was thinking of this the other day, maybe those who have more than others in the Christian world are those who have learned to take from the Lord and are not afraid to believe He wants them to "taste and see that the Lord is good" and generous and bountiful in His blessings toward us. Maybe I'm a better taker than some here???? I did look at some of the things in the attachment you posted above and say no., I do not agree with them because they do not rightly identify me at all and I am a word of faith Christian but not by their definition.

 

[Jason0047]

First we ask things according to His will and plan. God's plan is to save the lost and to help those who are poor or sick. Second, you did not address 1 Timothy 6 at all. Are you afraid of what that chapter says? Some have erred from the faith in coveting after riches. Third, do you agree with "Got Questions" Article concernng the "Word of Faith" movement?














Am not sure why you think I don't agree with praying according to His will and plan. As a Christian, we are instructed to know and understand that we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. 2 Cor.4:7

This treasure is Jesus Christ in us. When we work out our salvation it is not "working for your salvation" it is working out what is in us..,Christ Jesus. His love, His holiness, His righteousness is all part of who we are. Our minds and our desires are changed from glory to glory as we behold Jesus. Taking it seriously with gravity. Not fear and trembling in the sense many have interpreted.

So our prayers go according to His will and purposes. And yet they are also our will and purpose now because He works in us "to will and to do of His good pleasure" It is a wonderful plan the Lord has worked out for us to join Him in. We become co-laborers with Him.

God's plan is not only to have us give out the good news of the Gospel but to be daily transformed into His image. I believe this all ties into 1 Tim. 6 as well. It is wonderful how God's Word always ties together when we study the principles of love and grace.

Self gratification is not what drives a Christian who is daily beholding Jesus. That would mean they are dead while they live. The motivation is not self glory but Christ glory.

If you see your fellow brother or sister blessed not only spiritually as they reflect Christ., but also with financial and physical health why do you condemn them when they give praise and thanks to God for meeting their needs and even going above and beyond what they could ever ask or think?? He is the God of MORE than enough. Why is it surprising to us when God out of the abundance of His love for us would chose to bless us as we live on earth as well? Not a big stretch for me since He gave His Dear Son. I believe we can be content with what we have and in that contentment for some reason God gives us even more. If you have questions about that you must go to the Lord for your answer. He is not a respecter of persons and promises to bless His children.

I was thinking of this the other day, maybe those who have more than others in the Christian world are those who have learned to take from the Lord and are not afraid to believe He wants them to "taste and see that the Lord is good" and generous and bountiful in His blessings toward us. Maybe I'm a better taker than some here???? I did look at some of the things in the attachment you posted above and say no., I do not agree with them because they do not rightly identify me at all and I am a word of faith Christian but not by their definition.

Well, if you believe in a Prosperity Gospel, or that you can be rich here upon this Earth, then speak of how one does all these things for Christ's glory would be sort of like putting on a mask. For Jesus said, for where your treasure is, there is where your heart will be also. How simple that is. If you put treasure here, then your real treasure is not the Pearl of Great Price (Who is Jesus Christ) but is the treasure here on this Earth. For the rich man went away sad. Jesus also said this to his disciples at another time, so it was not an isolated incident. Jesus does not want us to be overly wealthy or to covet after riches. God desires equality amongst the brethren. Not one starving in the streets and another living it up with fancy cars, jets, and the like.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Well, if you believe in a Prosperity Gospel, or that you can be rich here upon this Earth, then speak of how one does all these things for Christ's glory would be sort of like putting on a mask. For Jesus said, for where your treasure is, there is where your heart will be also. How simple that is. If you put treasure here, then your real treasure is not the Pearl of Great Price (Who is Jesus Christ) but is the treasure here on this Earth. For the rich man went away sad. Jesus also said this to his disciples at another time, so it was not an isolated incident. Jesus does not want us to be overly wealthy or to covet after riches. God desires equality amongst the brethren. Not one starving in the streets and another living it up with fancy cars, jets, and the like.

Point of order, the pearl of great price cannot be Christ, as we have nothing to buy Christ with. Posted this elsewhere, before,

An oyster dwells in one of the darkest places on the planet, the bottom of the sea, in the muck, and gets a piece of irritating dirt in it, sort of reminding one of the darkness and dirt of sin. But, around that dirt, a pearl begins to form, covering the dirt, layer upon layer, like a believer being sanctified. In the end, the pearl is harvested, brought into the light, a most beautiful of gems, like being born into the kingdom of heaven, the first resurrection. The Merchant Man is singular, very rich, and gives His all for the pearl, the only One who can afford it, like Christ coming from far off, His riches in glory, giving His all for that pearl. None of us have anything to buy that pearl with, to some who say the pearl is Christ. So, what is that pearl? The church. Something else interesting, a pearl is unique among gems: it can't be faceted, divided, to produce other gems, rather can only be of value as one.

 

[ladylynn]

Well, if you believe in a Prosperity Gospel, or that you can be rich here upon this Earth, then speak of how one does all these things for Christ's glory would be sort of like putting on a mask. For Jesus said, for where your treasure is, there is where your heart will be also. How simple that is. If you put treasure here, then your real treasure is not the Pearl of Great Price (Who is Jesus Christ) but is the treasure here on this Earth. For the rich man went away sad. Jesus also said this to his disciples at another time, so it was not an isolated incident. Jesus does not want us to be overly wealthy or to covet after riches. God desires equality amongst the brethren. Not one starving in the streets and another living it up with fancy cars, jets, and the like.

What???

Don't you believe as a Christian that Christ is IN you? Do you refute 1 Cor.4:7 ? Again am not sure what you are saying to me and what you are not in agreement about. (?)

Our treasure is Jesus Christ and we love Him because He first loved us and gave Himself up for us all. The rich man went away sad because he put his trust in His riches not on Christ.
But there are many wealthy Christians who put their trust in Christ not on their riches and God honors that. Unless you want to say all Christians are poor, you need to re assess.

Let me say this to you, If you are blessed by God than be a flowing fountain and not a stagnant pool. God is not a communist so in that sense you cannot expect equality among the brethren because many do not walk according to His will or promises. If you never step-out and SEE the Lord is good, you will not experience it either. Although it was there for you all along.

And when God does bless us, we are called to go out and bless others and be a blessing to them. We are blessed to BE a blessing. "As He is so are we in this world." As we have so learned., be imitators of Christ! Amen and thank You Jesus!

 

[ladylynn]

Point of order, the pearl of great price cannot be Christ, as we have nothing to buy Christ with. Posted this elsewhere, before,

An oyster dwells in one of the darkest places on the planet, the bottom of the sea, in the muck, and gets a piece of irritating dirt in it, sort of reminding one of the darkness and dirt of sin. But, around that dirt, a pearl begins to form, covering the dirt, layer upon layer, like a believer being sanctified. In the end, the pearl is harvested, brought into the light, a most beautiful of gems, like being born into the kingdom of heaven, the first resurrection. The Merchant Man is singular, very rich, and gives His all for the pearl, the only One who can afford it, like Christ coming from far off, His riches in glory, giving His all for that pearl. None of us have anything to buy that pearl with, to some who say the pearl is Christ. So, what is that pearl? The church. Something else interesting, a pearl is unique among gems: it can't be faceted, divided, to produce other gems, rather can only be of value as one.

Amen, I very much agree with you. Christ is the One Who loved us so much He bought us. We have nothing to offer Him. We are bankrupt and have no "money" no righteous works to purchase Him. Amen., The Church is the pearl of great price that only the Savior could redeem.

I think that the church doesn't realize that God loved us SOOOO much He gave His only precious Son for us. We are so busy focusing on our filthiness when we were WITHOUT Him , that we miss who we are IN HIM ; we are The called, the redeemed., called kings and priests., sons and daughters of the Most High. We can now have the privilege of calling Him our ABBA FATHER.

 

[Jason0047]

Point of order, the pearl of great price cannot be Christ, as we have nothing to buy Christ with. Posted this elsewhere, before,

An oyster dwells in one of the darkest places on the planet, the bottom of the sea, in the muck, and gets a piece of irritating dirt in it, sort of reminding one of the darkness and dirt of sin. But, around that dirt, a pearl begins to form, covering the dirt, layer upon layer, like a believer being sanctified. In the end, the pearl is harvested, brought into the light, a most beautiful of gems, like being born into the kingdom of heaven, the first resurrection. The Merchant Man is singular, very rich, and gives His all for the pearl, the only One who can afford it, like Christ coming from far off, His riches in glory, giving His all for that pearl. None of us have anything to buy that pearl with, to some who say the pearl is Christ. So, what is that pearl? The church. Something else interesting, a pearl is unique among gems: it can't be faceted, divided, to produce other gems, rather can only be of value as one.

Jesus is the Light that came to a dark and dying world.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Amen, I very much agree with you. Christ is the One Who loved us so much He bought us. We have nothing to offer Him. We are bankrupt and have no "money" no righteous works to purchase Him. Amen., The Church is the pearl of great price that only the Savior could redeem.

I think that the church doesn't realize that God loved us SOOOO much He gave His only precious Son for us. We are so busy focusing on our filthiness when we were WITHOUT Him , that we miss who we are IN HIM ; we are The called, the redeemed., called kings and priests., sons and daughters of the Most High. We can now have the privilege of calling Him our ABBA FATHER.

Amen! In terms of salvation, we don't have the wherewithal to buy a Happy Meal. If we were to give our all, it would still be filthy rags to Holy, Holy, Holy God. The love of our Lord Jesus is unfathomable, He, and He alone, worthy of all praise, He and He alone the Alpha and Omega, all that is important: only He is worthy,

Philippians 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[dave_in_KWC]

There is Spiritual joy and earthly carnal joy. The latter is fleeting and only that joy we have in Christ is eternal. Eternal joy is not of this earth but of the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Are you implying, for instance, that the joy a baby feels when they look into a loving parent's eyes is not joy from God?

Gosh, I hope not. I believe we are here on Earth as "little Christs" (literal definition of the word: Christian") to spread the Love, Joy and Favour of God; to usher His Kingdom in, here on Earth, as it is in Heaven.

I don't know how any of us could even survive here on Earth without sharing the Joy God gives us via the Godly Love of others and Him... So maybe you can clarify what you meant by your comments, above.

I think maybe, notuptome, you were trying to get at the difference between the emotions of carnal satisfaction or "happiness" and the Joy of being Loved by God (and others).

Truly, here on Earth: "The Joy of the Lord Jesus Christ [expressed by Him and His followers] is our Strength!

 

[Ariel82]

we don't need money to buy what God wants us to have:

Isaiah 55 v. 1-3
"Ho! Everyone who thirsts. Come to the waters; and you have no money, come buy and eat. Yes, come buy wine & milk without money and without price. why do you spend money for what is not bread, and your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to me and eat what is good. and let your soul delight itself in abundance. Incline your ear and come to Me. Hear and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you."

 

[Free-To-Be]

Lady lynn as soon as you see unbelieving believers coming at you the way they have here. Step down. Leave it. There is no point wasting your time. But I thank you for one of the best posts I saw since I came in here. I am preaching a message that most Christians never heard of. There is so much unbelife in here. The world is actully easier to reach. Every word you said is correct, and that includes the first paragragh. You know that I know that and a few others know it. Go reach the street people where the mainline church doesnt go. You know the highways and bye ways. Most chistians do there work hiding in forums. The message you have is perfect and you will reach the lost when you preach Gods word the way you have done. But dont get caught in a to an throw match here. You cant make people see truth. Your level is above most here. Now watch. These signs and wonders shall follow believers. Ask all who oppose you for there latest testimony of what God is doing in there life. Ask what signs and wonders are following them. Most pray and say dear God will you heal me. Not understanding scripture. Most life like chickens when they can soar like egales.

So many think Gods heals if its his will. Not knowing Gods name even. It comes from not knowing God but having an opinion.
They dont know what the breads for. They will be angry when they read this judging me as they are you. But I notice they dont back up there many words with scripture. Ya da ya da ya.

 

[popeye]

I loved your "saw off the limb your sitting on" story!! AINT THAT JUST THE WAY IT IS!!!!!!!!????)
Then when we finally do let go of our lives and let Him hold us up - that is when our life with Him really begins to perk!! Talk about the abundant life.., and we are only scratching the surface.





.

Interesting. I was hoping to encourage. Encouragement means life.

Have you seen the female kurdish fighters??? (utube)

Their words are so,so powerful. They have settled death within thier being. They are prepared to die and smile as they afirm their commitment.
Now transpose this to christianity. Are we ready? Most are i think,but really we do not fully understand our own commitment.
We are to be as walking dead to this world's trinkets,pleasures,ambitions,lusts etc.
If you took a .44 pistol and walked up to a corpse in a coffin and said "i am going to blow your head off!" He would not care or show even a slight concern. We are to be TOTALLY his. every fiber of our being and embrace the weight of the verse " in him we live,and move and have our BEING" I need a greater revelation of having my entire BEING drawing every moment of life from Jesus.

 

[popeye]

I heard a preacher say about those he was taught under but has moved on from, that he honors them as his spiritual parents even though he may disagree a bit today with them., "It is because I stand on their shoulders that I am able to see more". That seems like a wonderful way to look at it

.


​I learned this the hard way. Good that they gave you this revelation. I am much more careful now.

 

[Ariel82]

I hate blanket statements and false generalizations of people.

I'm going to go back and read my Bible now.

[h=1]Psalm 50:19-21New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [SUP]19 [/SUP]You give your mouth to evil,
And your tongue frames deceit.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]You sit and speak against your brother;
You slander your own mother’s son.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]These things you have done, and I kept silent;
You thought that I was altogether like you;
But I will rebuke you,
And set them in order before your eyes.

For those who pray will you pray for a couple and their baby? The doctor says the baby has down syndrome and it troubles my heart. I'm going to pray that its a misdiagnosis and that God will allow the baby to be born without any medical problems. I believe it would truly bless the couple to see God heal in this way, but they seem willing to accept the baby no matter what, which I think is good, because God allowed the blind man to be born and later healed by Jesus.

Many people the world labeled handicap, show God's spirit clearer than those labeled "normal". They keep a child like faith that reminds us what truly is important: not intelligence or ability but heart and love of God.

I will pray people see others as GOD sees them with love.

I've heard of God's healing blindness in one lady through the prayer of a stranger in their death bed. Today one of the Sunday school members told us of answered prayers from last week: her son got a job and her friend was told she was completely cancer free.

I believe we can praise God for both and for many more things we often take for granted.

However, I believe it arrogance to say if your warn against false preachers and wolves, you do not understand God's promises.

I'm not sure who you refer to about lack of scriptures but I've learned early on to always post at least one verse with every Bible discussion forum I post because it helps God to work in the hearts of those who read and see beyond my words to the heart of the message I feel God places in my heart to share.

 

[popeye]

I have come to find out that God is the God of the living not the dead. All this talk of death and joy in death.... mourning the death.....????

We are called to live in Christ NOW., to be in joy NOW. We are called to live the abundant life NOW because we have Jesus NOW. It's that simple and that wonderful. It's not carnal to love Jesus NOW and to trust Jesus NOW and to live for Him NOW. That joy is never fleeting or temporal. Eternal joy is now because we have eternal life NOW. We have the Holy Spirit now and by faith we can run and not be weary even now. We are called to trust in the things that are not seen that is our calling.

W/o joy there is no strength. for "the joy of the Lord is our strength"
Hagin used to say "peace is our 'umpire'" When it departs it is time to say what went wrong.

 

[popeye]

The mind is where these battles are waged. It pleases the Father when we trust Him and expect from Him. Why do so many Christians fight this truth tooth and nail?? Why is it preaching a false gospel to say I believe God loves us enough to follow through with His promises to care and love us?? To protect us and be on our side?? It is a truth that is sweet.

Hagin told a story about a blimp.
"A zeppelin was trying to dock at a town and some soldiers were assigned to help w/the mooring. As it approached they dropped down ropes so the soldiers could help steady it.
A sudden gust of wind took the aircraft up about 500 ft. Some of the soldiers let go immediately and were ok. However several began to fall to their death as their grip gave out. One by one the fell and died horribly. Women were fainting and covering the eyes of their children. There was one fellow that would not let go and by this time he looked like a little ant on a thread so high in the sky. Folks left because they did not want to see the poor soldier die. After about an hour they got the thing docked and were able to retrieve the soldier into a ambulance . He said I am ok. I do not need an ambulance. They insisted as his arms and hands must have damage from all that stress.
He said "oh no that aint what happened!!! What happened was when I saw I was too high to let let go I just reached down with one hand and got some slack rope and made me a cradle to sit in out of the rope,and I was just up there enjoying the view.

So,said hagin,thats what we are going to do. We will simply hold on to God's promises and enjoy the ride!!!

God bless you Bro Hagin,thank you for that revelation.
That nugget will take me a million miles

 

[ladylynn]

Lady lynn as soon as you see unbelieving believers coming at you the way they have here. Step down. Leave it. There is no point wasting your time. But I thank you for one of the best posts I saw since I came in here. I am preaching a message that most Christians never heard of. There is so much unbelife in here. The world is actully easier to reach. Every word you said is correct, and that includes the first paragragh. You know that I know that and a few others know it. Go reach the street people where the mainline church doesnt go. You know the highways and bye ways. Most chistians do there work hiding in forums. The message you have is perfect and you will reach the lost when you preach Gods word the way you have done. But dont get caught in a to an throw match here. You cant make people see truth. Your level is above most here. Now watch. These signs and wonders shall follow believers. Ask all who oppose you for there latest testimony of what God is doing in there life. Ask what signs and wonders are following them. Most pray and say dear God will you heal me. Not understanding scripture. Most life like chickens when they can soar like egales.

So many think Gods heals if its his will. Not knowing Gods name even. It comes from not knowing God but having an opinion.
They dont know what the breads for. They will be angry when they read this judging me as they are you. But I notice they dont back up there many words with scripture. Ya da ya da ya.

Thank you for your kind words about my post Free-To-Be. I am new to the word of faith and full gospel group and came upon it by reading the Bible and listening to radio and tv when I was house bound., maybe I would not have listened any other way? I am very much in support of many of the TV preachers that are condemned daily by the world and by Christians who do not understand how God actually blesses us while we are here on earth too.

It came down to either believing and trusting God loved me and saw me in Christ Jesus... or..... living a life of fear and condemnation because I kept looking at my failed track record and not Jesus completed work on my behalf.

But it is wonderful to read from other believers of "like precious faith" One of the major differences I see is we truly believe we are loved by God because of His Son. Enough to step out on the water like Peter and dare to believe we won't sink because Jesus is holding on to us.

To know we are loved by God makes us walk in the freedom Jesus died for us to have. Many Christains are against taking what God has freely given because they don't know how much God loves them. And because I was once of the same mind-set it is hard to leave CC completely. Trying out these posting threads is another way to contend for the faith

And I still enjoy chatting in the Bible study room too.

 

[Free-To-Be]

I would say stay in CC but you just have to let go of those who wont listen. Some will some wont. There saved, But there is so much more for us if we spend time alone with god, die to self, grow in the knoledge. We are not called to gather in church. Thats is only a small part of what were called to.

 

[ladylynn]

Hey Free-To-Be!

It seems that is part of relating to other people - saved AND unsaved. Everyone is coming from a different place of experience. Many people who have been burned by other people., preachers and teachers or churches end up throwing the baby out with the bath water. Being hurt is not fun. People need time to get over issues.

My father in law stopped going to church years ago because some insensitive people made remarks about his overalls. (he was a farmer) If our faith is dependent on other people then it was never a good thing to begin with. It's when we lose faith in those harnesses that took the place of God that we start to walk in the truth of what God IS and what He says...not what people do or say. Sometimes leaving a church is a good thing and gives time for us to learn about what we actually believe in.

But for some reason God wants us to be around other believers! I don't know why but He made us crave human contact too. -Just not above Him-

So to daily get to know people and give grace to them is what we are supposed to do I believe. And if it becomes too painful and has no good fruit, we should not stay. That is my opinion too. I'm in the process of looking for a full gospel church in my area. Yes, going to church is just one small part of the things we are called to do and a very important part. Its been a season of no church for me and now it's time to find one.

 

[notuptome]

Seek a good bible teaching church. Full gospel is usually full of errors and not full of truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ladylynn]

Seek a good bible teaching church. Full gospel is usually full of errors and not full of truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Well notuptome., that has been what this thread was about. I have been accused of being full of errors too, as well as not speaking of truth. And based on my relationship with Jesus and the study of the Bible I know that those accusers are very wrong.

They based their opinions on what they 'thought' is was saying and believing and not on what I did say or what I do actually believe. They took the words 'word of faith' and 'prosperity' and lumped me into being of the opinion I should have a Rolex watch (when I don't even use a watch)

People do not take the time to find out what is being said and are judging according to their own ideas and for sure not on the facts of the situation.

Your ideas of Full Gospel being "usually full of errors and not full of truth" is another sweeping statement against a whole bunch of your brothers and sisters who have not earned that condemnation no more than I do.