Works and Salvation

[SeaBass]

so much for the thief on the cross.

Do you people ever read the word of God and actually study it, Or do you just glance over it until you see something which supports you. then highlight it, while ignoring the rest?

The thief on the cross did not live under the gospel.

 

[SeaBass]

lol.. No belief is not a work. It is not a work unless you can take credit for it. Who can take credit for standing still and allowing God to save you from yourself and your sin?

Again you people amaze me.

Jn 6:27-29 Jesus called belief a work Himself.

 

[SeaBass]

technically your right. there is no such thing as faith apart from works. (Although I know myself and many others have said this over and over, but you all seem to forget that. or ignore it!!)

where you error is, is that salvation happens the moment of faith. Works automatically follows.

You have salvation happening after works. which means a person must earn salvation, thus they can boast. and take credit for it. in other words, their faith is in their own ability to do the work, and it saving them, and not God.

Again, you people amaze me.

So if one's faith does not produce works can his faith alone save him?
You just answered this question above with a "no". If there is no such thing as "faith apart from works" then faith alone cannot save.
What is 'amazing' you do not want works to be part of one's salvation yet you make works part of one's salvation. You admit there is no such thing as "faith apart from works".
Contradictions abound.

 

[SeaBass]

Nope.

Because salvation occurs in between the faith and works.

we are saved by grace through faith not works (the moment of salvation) what happens next? We (those saved by faith) are his workmanship CREATED in CHRIST JESUS (new creatures) FOR GOOD WORKS.. they will happen.

you want to carry the cart before the horse again you people amaze me

What if one's faith never produced works, will his faith alone save him?

 

[SeaBass]

see, e.g. the key word is boast. that is what they seem to want to do. tell us how great they are, how wrong we are, etc... I guess that they think they are the exception to the " no man can boast" that Paul said.

Lk 17:10 what does the unprofitable servant have to boast about?

 

[SeaBass]

I would think GOD put all that was needed to be said in John 3:16.
A person can't ponder,they just have to know GOD inspired man to write that and if GOD wanted something else with the word believe,i think he would have made sure it was written down there.

One verse theologies will fail when one does not consider all verses that deal with salvation. Jn 3:16 is just one verse among many that deal with salvation. God included Lk 13:3,5; Mt 10:32,33; Mk 16;16 along with many more salvic verses.

 

[SeaBass]

Why is it that people try to twist words?

I said...............if you do not have faith then you will not do works.
It all starts from being faithful. If you are faithful and believe in Jesus Christ then YOU ARE SAVED<<<<<

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

You can NOT do WORKS if you have not been filled with the holy spirit. THIS IS WHAT JESUS SAID.

If one has faith but no works can his faith alone save him?

No bible verse say one must be filled with the Holy Spirit to do works, that idea puts fault and blame upon God.

 

[SeaBass]

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.Mark 9:23 So therefore, if faith without works is dead according to the law, thus grace is made void by the law of faith which is dead without works. Therein, if works are required for the gift of grace, then salvation is no longer a gift of grace by hope of the believer but the works by faith. And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. Mark 10:27

The easiest way to determine if one is saved or not is whether they believe that all things with God are things are possible, the lost believe.

If grace alone saves then every single person will be saved, Tts 2:11. But every person will not be saved for grace is conditional upon man's obedience to God's will. No one who disobeys God/works unrighteousness will receive grace.
All things are possible with God, things that fall within His nature and word.

 

[SeaBass]

Salvation first .... good works after

No one can save themselves by doing works that some religious organizations tout as necessary for one to be saved

An individual saved is one set free from the law .... and free to do good works and to witness to the unsaved

No one is saved by the keeping of the law .... the very purpose of the law is to convict

.... and no one could keep it 100% all of the time anyway .... people are not built that way

Once one realizes this fact .... the next step is to turn to the only One who can save

A man cannot save himself

If one has no good works after he is saved, will he still be saved anyway?

 

[SeaBass]

faith alone saves but faith that saves is never alone.

Total contradiction of words.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The thief on the cross did not live under the gospel.

lol, yes he did, if he did not, he could not have been saved, unless sacrifices were made by a priest for his sins. and he did the rest of the things concerning the law for his sin.

again, do you people ever read?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jn 6:27-29 Jesus called belief a work Himself.

yep he did, and whos work was it?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

again, do you read? it is not our work, lest we boast, but the work of God. where he does ALL the work.. you just TRUST HIM.

so when are you going to stop working, and trust in his work?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What if one's faith never produced works, will his faith alone save him?

wrong question, the question is, did that person ever have saving faith? Can a dead (non existent) faith save you?

 

[Zmouth]

And what exactly is one saved from? From sin and death? Obviously not since many here state that they continue to sin, death, rumor has it nobody gets out of here alive. Or were you saved from spiritual death?

Thus, if you don't know what you are being saved from, then what defence is your faith in your works.

Not to change the subject but in John 21:15-17 it is written,

15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.


16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.


17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Feed my lambs? Zechariah 4:14

Feed my sheep, Feed my sheep? Deut 8:3And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

 

[SeaBass]

lol, yes he did, if he did not, he could not have been saved, unless sacrifices were made by a priest for his sins. and he did the rest of the things concerning the law for his sin.

again, do you people ever read?

Heb 9:16,17 the gospel could not come in effect until some point AFTER Christ died.

 

[SeaBass]

yep he did, and whos work was it?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

again, do you read? it is not our work, lest we boast, but the work of God. where he does ALL the work.. you just TRUST HIM.

so when are you going to stop working, and trust in his work?

--God does not have to do the work of believing. Belief is the work of God that God has given man to do...

"This is the work of God, that YOU believe....."

--belief is commanded, the command implies it's your responsibility to believe and fulfill the command, not God's.

 

[SeaBass]

wrong question, the question is, did that person ever have saving faith? Can a dead (non existent) faith save you?

What if one's faith never produced works, will his faith alone save him?

It's the right question, essentially the same question James asked.

You imply if one has no works then he never really had faith and once again making works essential to having faith/salvation.

 

[SeaBass]

And what exactly is one saved from? From sin and death? Obviously not since many here state that they continue to sin, death, rumor has it nobody gets out of here alive. Or were you saved from spiritual death?

Thus, if you don't know what you are being saved from, then what defence is your faith in your works.

Not to change the subject but in John 21:15-17 it is written,

15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.


16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.


17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Feed my lambs? Zechariah 4:14

Feed my sheep, Feed my sheep? Deut 8:3And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

If man is to live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord.
And the Lord said "Why call ye Me Lord, Lord and do not the things which I say?" and "he that doeth the will of the Father" shall inherit the kingdom"

Then how can one be saved when he continues to NOT DO what Christ said?

 

[kennethcadwell]

If man is to live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord.
And the Lord said "Why call ye Me Lord, Lord and do not the things which I say?" and "he that doeth the will of the Father" shall inherit the kingdom"

Then how can one be saved when he continues to NOT DO what Christ said?

This is one point I would side with you on definitely.
There is no such thing as a do nothing philosophy for a saved Christian.

Lord Jesus makes it clear over and over again that if you are His sheep ( saved ) then there is multiple things that follow the believer. Living a full life in love ( no hatred ), repentance of sin, baptism, confession, doing for others in need, and not hiding their belief in Him. If these things do not follow in your faith in Him, then you still have areas to work on.
Salvation is not an immediate given as some falsely teach.
Even Jesus our Lord and Savior says that the one who endures to the end will be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Heb 9:16,17 the gospel could not come in effect until some point AFTER Christ died.

Your right, It could not be realised.

But abraham was still saved by faith, not works, as was anyone else.

Why do you not see the law condemns you for one sin, After that, it does not matter how many sins you commit, your guilty of the law, and justly condemned.

The only thing whihc can redeem sin is the shedding of blood (without the shedding, there can be NO FORGIVENESS)

So no one in the oT was saved by law, Blood had to be shed, and guess what, The blood of bulls ad goats can NEVER take away sin.