Works

Grace777x70 · Feb 8, 2016

True..there is a work mentality in some things..I like this quote I wrote down one time..it sums some things up for me..

"The immoral person gets the gospel before the moral one does. The prostitute understands grace while the Pharisee does not.. It is the actively unrighteous younger brother who grasps it before his self-righteous older brother. Our "goodness" is just as toxic as our "badness", maybe even so because it blinds us of our real need for the grace of our Lord Jesus in every aspect of our life and walk in this world."

eternally-gratefull said:

3Scoreand10 · Feb 8, 2016

KennethC said:

I never said nor do I believe that disobedience does not matter. That statement from you is exactly what you condem others of doing when they confront your false teaching
Disobedience leads to broken fellowship with God. It leads to lost blessings. It leads to conviction and chastisement.
BUT it does not lead to God casting you out. ( Taking back His FREE GIFT of salvation/Eternal life)
Here is where you and I disagree.
I place my hope for eternal life solely in the hands of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and His promise to me.
You believe that Jesus is not strong enough, that you must do something (WORKS) or He will renig on that promise, take back His GIFT and cast you out.
I know that I have eternal life because of my faith in what my Lord and Savior promised.
I work very hard at being obedient to His every command because I love Him and want to please Him not because I believe He will cast me out if I fail. When I fail I ask forgiveness and continue on.
Ken you have a good understanding of many Bible truths. Many thing you post I agree with.
I hope you come to the truth about salvation and works before you stand before before God.

KennethC · Feb 8, 2016

3Scoreand10 said:

Look I am sorry if I sound harsh but I know exactly what the Holy Spirit said to me about being in the lost state I was in.

He did not ever say I would still be saved and receive eternal life if I remained in that stance !!!

The reason why the Lord chastises us is so that we don't get caught up in sin again and be condemned with the rest of the world. Sin is a very dangerous issue that now day doctrines try to down play !!!

The other thing you are taught to do is play the "misplaced blame game" !!!

Every time this subject gets brought up I here the same tactic's used, and that is its Jesus or God's fault:

Jesus isn't strong enough.................

Jesus failed....................

Jesus took back His free gift.............

These are all straw-man arguments that take the focus off of self and places the blame on the Lord, and that is very wrong to do my brother !!!

We need to stop blaming others for the wrongs we have done, that is what those who are weak do !!!

The abusive husband blames the wife for him abusing her..........

The pedophile blames the kids or his past on why he abused the kids.........

The thief blames the system for why they stole..............

The weak believer who does not believe in falling away or departing from the faith blames the Lord our God............

This is sickening and sad, why can't you just admit and acknowledge yourself is to blame for where you ended up ???

The bible speaks of there being a number of people that will be gnashing and wailing at judgment because they thought they were saved but found out they weren't.

You know why it says they weren't saved and did not receive eternal life ???

It does not say because they didn't believe in Jesus, it says because they continued to live deliberate sinful lives or did not help out others in need !!!

Believing in Jesus is more then just believing He existed, came in the flesh, died on the cross for our sins, and rose on the third day. The Word of God shows there is much more to believing in Him then that !!!

Luke 6:46-49 Jesus shows two groups, true believers and false believers, and He shows here what separates the two is that the true believers "DO" what He said and the false one's do not !!!

Chuckt · Feb 8, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

There is a list of charismatic faith healers who went to the hospital and died of sickness:

Healer? Heal Thyself!

I don't believe people have the gift of healing today as reported or else they would be clearing out the nursing homes and the hospitals.

There is a theologian who looked at the grammatical structure in the Greek and said we have the gift to heal one person. I looked at it and rejected the teaching because I couldn't prove it.

The power that Jesus had and His disciples had was exousia which is the royal right of God to heal. The power of the holy spirit is not the royal right of God but is called "dunamous".

God heals whom God wants to heal and John Wimber died saying something to that effect which means he unlearned what everyone has been teaching. God is sovereign and faith is dependent on God saying, "yes". The reason I already outlined in my last post (response).

I see healings as to some proof that God exists and God wants you to have faith instead:

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.-Hebrews 11:6

Healing is the opposite of faith and without faith it is impossible to please God so that is a reason why God heals some and not others.

If you want to argue with me then please empty out the hospital first.

Why does God require faith? Why doesn't God "prove" Himself to us so there is no need for faith?

Why does God require faith? Why doesn't God "prove" Himself to us so there is no need for faith?

eternally-gratefull · Feb 8, 2016

KennethC said:

That could have been satan, Not wanting you to have true faith in Christ, And talking for God..

He does that alot.. We have to stop listening to voices, and start listening to the word.

Grace777x70 · Feb 8, 2016

All those so-called faith healers are not the Lord Jesus Christ...Jesus is perfect theology...not man...I'm not arguing with you...you are allowed to believe whatever you want concerning any aspect of the Lord's work for us.......Bless you and have a great day!

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

Chuckt said:

KennethC · Feb 8, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

That is just ridiculous !!!

Satan would not have drawn me to following Christ, he would have drawn me further away.

The Holy Spirit speaks directly to believers, not just through the words in the bible !!!

Chuckt · Feb 8, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Naaman the Syrian was healed but other lepers weren't.
The Paralytic at the pool of Bethesda was healed but everyone else wasn't.

Jesus didn't heal everyone.

I can't command God to heal. I believe God has healing power but He chooses not to.

To everyone else. Empty out the hospitals and the nursing homes. Until then, faith without works is dead.

Grace777x70 · Feb 8, 2016

Show me a scripture where someone came to Jesus and He refused to heal them?

the guy at the pool was Jesus Himself going to that particular man...not that the others came to Him for healing that were at the pool and He refused them

On the other hand I can show you multitudes of scriptures where it says that Jesus healed them ALL that came to Him..i

Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Chuckt said:

eternally-gratefull · Feb 8, 2016

KennethC said:

Drawing you to works and a gospel which is not secured in Christ, Is drawing you away from Christ.

God does not lead us all to different gospels. That was my point..

Chuckt · Feb 8, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

2 Corinthians 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

In other words, the Lord had another reason to not heal Paul.

coby · Feb 8, 2016

Chuckt said:

He couldn't heal some because of their unbelief and sometimes it's simply someone's time. That's why we have to listen and do what He says. There is no revival yet and the church is not yet mature as a whole. If everyone thought like that nothing would ever happen and we would all wait to first see and then believe. That's for the unbelievers, we must first believe and then see so they can get saved.

Chuckt · Feb 8, 2016

coby said:

James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

You're saying the sick can't healed because of unbelief but James doesn't say they have to have faith to be healed. James says the faith of the elders shall save the sick.

The result is that we still have hospitals full of people and God does not heal everyone today or else word would catch on and more people would be exiting the hospitals and nursing homes.

The evidence of faith does not match what you or others are preaching because I would be healed and my dad would be healed. I would love to be healed and I believe God can heal me so it isn't sin or unbelief. Some people stay sick for the glory of God:

John 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
John 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

So the fact is that God uses sick people to accomplish his purposes that the works of God should be made manifest in whatever God so desires but God doesn't heal everyone.

Grace777x70 · Feb 8, 2016

So, you think Paul was sick and Jesus refused to heal him?...that would go against the whole of Christ's life on this earth..and the multitude of scriptures that say the exact opposite......if you read it in context you will find what Paul was talking about....these are all things associated with preaching the gospel and getting persecuted for it..including beatings and being stoned..

2 Corinthians 12:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

[video=youtube;DQP6yY0lQ34]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQP6yY0lQ34[/video]

Chuckt said:

KennethC · Feb 8, 2016

Some it seems needs to go and reread 1 Corinthians again, especially that of 1 Corinthians 12:12-31.

We are all part of "ONE" body in Christ but given different functions, there is no such thing as a inactive member of the body !!!

As a body each member is called to serve a specific function to keep it working properly, if a part of the body is not functioning properly it is the responsibility of the other members to fix that not working part !!!

If there is no mouth.................The gospel can not be shared

If there is no ears...................There could be no one to listen to show sympathy

If there is no eyes...................There could be no way to see the struggles another needs help with

If there is no hands..................There would be no way to reach out to them

If there is no feet....................There would be no way to move forward in growing and edifying the body further

Nobody in the body has a insignificant or inactive role, and Paul even deems those who have the least of the gifts are the one's who actually deserve more honor !!!

People have such an issue with "Works" and treat it as if it is always filthy, but the Word of God shows that those works done in the faith are not filthy but are His righteousness being done in our lives and we will be rewarded for our servitude to Him !!!

Then they go and make false allegations on others, because I have said all along that eternal security only exists "IN" Christ. Outside of Christ there is not security !!!

That faith in Christ is not an inactive or nonworking faith, it is very active and Paul states salvation in the sense of running a race !!!

You can't finish the race by sitting on your butts !!!

Grace777x70 · Feb 8, 2016

We need to go a little further in that scripture to find out what He is really saying....this scripture is simply saying that Jesus must work to get rid of the sickness that was on this guy from birth..as per His Father's heart and will.

John 9:3-4 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him. ( this it was so - is not in the original greek ..it is added)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] "We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work.

Acts 10:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Chuckt said:

coby · Feb 8, 2016

Chuckt said:

Yes they should call the elders of the church, but if the elders of the church have been taught that God doesn't want to heal they simply don't believe and the sick person stays sick. Another thing: we should do the works that Jesus did. He fasted and prayed whole nights. We can't expect whole hospitals emptied out by praying 5 minutes and for the rest just live our life. The whole church isn't revived yet.

Chuckt · Feb 8, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

infirmities g769 ἀσθένεια astheneia

The word "infirmities" is translated:

AV — infirmity 17, weakness 5, disease 1, sickness 1

We translate based on the context of the Bible:

2 Corinthians 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

Christians cannot be demon possessed and we are fenced in from misappropriation.

Your video teacher is looking for out of context sources to interpret the Bible so it is an interpretation and not found in the context of immediate verses.

Chuckt · Feb 8, 2016

coby said:

I remember Pastor Mike saying that people ask him to heal and his record of healing is not very good because God hasn't healed people through him.

When you empty the hospitals and nursing homes, let me know but until then, faith without works is dead.

Grace777x70 · Feb 8, 2016

There are multiple meanings for words in greek...as showed below....and yes..being sick is a weakness...one of the usages is for this weakness...but sickness violates the work of Christ....it is not from God...God can make good things come from the suckness but He is never the author of it..and it is always His will to heal as shown by Jesus.

[FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]ασθενειας[/FONT][/COLOR], [COLOR=blue][FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]ἡ[/FONT][/COLOR] ([COLOR=blue][FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]ασθενης[/FONT][/COLOR]) (from Herodotus down), [COLOR=#008000][B]want of strength, weakness, infirmity[/B][/COLOR];

Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.

[B][COLOR=#008000]Was Jesus crucified because He has a sickness?..same word being used here.[/COLOR]

2 Corinthians 13:4 (NASB)
[/B][SUP][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000000]4 [/COLOR][/SIZE][/SUP] For indeed He was crucified because of[COLOR=#008000][B] weakness[/B][/COLOR], yet He lives because of the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, yet we will live with Him because of the power of God [I]directed[/I] toward you.

Here the writer of Hebrews is saying the priest was doing his work in [COLOR=#008000]weakness[/COLOR]...we know that priests could not do any work in the temple if they had sickness ..

[B]Hebrews 5:1-2 (NASB)
[/B][SUP][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000000]1 [/COLOR][/SIZE][/SUP] For every high priest taken from among men is appointed on behalf of men in things pertaining to God, in order to offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins;
[SUP][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000000]2 [/COLOR][/SIZE][/SUP] he can deal gently with the ignorant and misguided, since he himself also is beset with [COLOR=#008000][B]weakness; [/B][/COLOR]

Here is the word being used again only this time called "[COLOR=#008000]weak".
[/COLOR]
[B]Hebrews 7:28 (NASB)
[/B][SUP][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000000]28 [/COLOR][/SIZE][/SUP] For the Law appoints men as high priests who[COLOR=#008000][B] are weak,[/B][/COLOR] but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, [I]appoints[/I] a Son, made perfect forever.

Here the word is used of the old hero's of faith that were in w[COLOR=#008000]eakness bu[/COLOR]t became strong..

[B]Hebrews 11:34 (NASB)
[/B][SUP][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000000]34 [/COLOR][/SIZE][/SUP] quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from [B][COLOR=#008000] weakness [/COLOR][/B]were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight.

[QUOTE="Chuckt, post: 2475392"]2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

infirmities g769 ἀσθένεια astheneia

The word "infirmities" is translated:

AV — infirmity 17, weakness 5, disease 1, sickness 1

We translate based on the context of the Bible:

2 Corinthians 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

Christians cannot be demon possessed and we are fenced in from misappropriation.

Your video teacher is looking for out of context sources to interpret the Bible so it is an interpretation and not found in the context of immediate verses.[/QUOTE]

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