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Dec 6, 2012
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#21
Does it matter? I think it does... What if by some sort of special decree we had to celebrate christmas on April 20th all of a sudden? Well, if the date doesn't matter, that wouldn't be a problem for you, right? Would it be a problem if you knew that April 20th is also Hitler's birthday and the powers that be changed christmas to that date to honor him? The roman emperor Constantine did a similar thing when ordered the birthday of Jesus to be celebrated on the feast of his pagan god. Do you understand now why the date DOES matter?
It doesn't matter. If I don't know that's why the date was changed, then in my mind I'm celebrating Jesus' birth. And God looks at the heart.

But the thing is, Christmas can become very self-centred, that's the only issue I have with it.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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#22
Actually, his concerns aren't totally off-base. Christmas in the United States is essentially a materialistic holiday.
True, but that doesn't mean we have make it what the world perverted it to. We can make it an opportunity to spread the gospel and teach the Word. I hate what Christmas has come, But I don't hate the meaning behind it. And sense my whole family celebrates it, I'm not going point my finger at them and make myself to look like a religious pharisee, I'm going to make the best of it. For example:

I despise Santa Clause, but I can use Santa to teach spiritual truths. The world sees Santa as a moral good man, picture Santa in is white long john underwear, this is a picture or a type of Christ's purity. Now put a red robe on Santa, this is a picture of Christ become sin for us even tho Christ had no sin. The red robe represents our sin. Santa lives in the north. Job_37:22
Golden splendor comes out of the north; God is awesome in His majesty. Isa_14:13 For you have said in your heart, I will go up to the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. Santa gives good free gifts and Christ gives us the ultimate gift of salvation. Santa come from the story of Saint Nicholas, read about here click --->Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.. Part of his legend has to do with giving. And this what gift giving means to me, I give you, my friends and family, as a symbol of what Christ gave to me.

So if Santa comes up during the time of Christmas for your family, you now have a story to tell them what Santa means to you and put the focus back on Christ and what he did for mankind.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,214
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#23
True, but that doesn't mean we have make it what the world perverted it to. We can make it an opportunity to spread the gospel and teach the Word. I hate what Christmas has come, But I don't hate the meaning behind it. And sense my whole family celebrates it, I'm not going point my finger at them and make myself to look like a religious pharisee, I'm going to make the best of it. For example:

I despise Santa Clause, but I can use Santa to teach spiritual truths. The world sees Santa as a moral good man, picture Santa in is white long john underwear, this is a picture or a type of Christ's purity. Now put a red robe on Santa, this is a picture of Christ become sin for us even tho Christ had no sin. The red robe represents our sin. Santa lives in the north. Job_37:22
Golden splendor comes out of the north; God is awesome in His majesty. Isa_14:13 For you have said in your heart, I will go up to the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. Santa gives good free gifts and Christ gives us the ultimate gift of salvation. Santa come from the story of Saint Nicholas, read about here click --->Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.. Part of his legend has to do with giving. And this what gift giving means to me, I give you, my friends and family, as a symbol of what Christ gave to me.

So if Santa comes up during the time of Christmas for your family, you now have a story to tell them what Santa means to you and put the focus back on Christ and what he did for mankind.
Bravo!!! bookends clearly god has spoken through you, i commend you for your spiritual truth and wonderfulness in the lord.
 

jandian

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2011
772
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#24
Jeremiah 10
New King James Version (NKJV)
Idols and the True God

10 Hear the word which the Lord speaks to you, O house of Israel.

2 Thus says the Lord:

“Do not learn the way of the Gentiles;
Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven,
For the Gentiles are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the peoples are futile;
For one cuts a tree from the forest,
The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.
4 They decorate it with silver and gold;
They fasten it with nails and hammers
So that it will not topple.
5 They are upright, like a palm tree,
And they cannot speak;
They must be carried,
Because they cannot go by themselves.
Do not be afraid of them,
For they cannot do evil,
Nor can they do any good.”
 
Nov 29, 2012
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#25
It doesn't matter. If I don't know that's why the date was changed, then in my mind I'm celebrating Jesus' birth. And God looks at the heart.

But the thing is, Christmas can become very self-centred, that's the only issue I have with it.
That clearly IS your problem indeed. :D
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#26
well in my heart i will always cherish christmas. if someone says christmas is evil money and tree worship then fine. all that matters is what god and i cherish, i can't wait to write that christmas letter.
 
T

twofeet

Guest
#27
Ive known the REAL meaning of Christmas for many years, also the real meaning of Easter..Ishtar, fertility god. Does it stop me praising my God...nope! Do I worship my Christmas tree and make it an idol...nope! It just looks pretty....like a picture would....God judges the heart of man.....just make sure your heart is for the Lord in ALL things. Is decorating a tree a sin? I think not, thats going into legalism and legalism kills the spirit. If your Christmas tree is a weakness that cries out to be worshipped and to be an idol before God then I would strongly recomend you dont get one.......but i think most Christians are strong enough in their faith to enjoy it for what is without being so bound up :)
 
D

DavEtheBravE

Guest
#28
Why dont you Ask God Yourself? The Just Shall Live by Faith.
 

shrimp

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
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#29
Wow and we claim to be Christians! I read every single comment on here and all I found out was that the majority of people on here claiming to be Christ-like, did nothing but try to tear each other down. Over what? CHRISTMAS!
It is CLEARLY a matter of conviction. If God has convicted you to not celebrate Christmas, that is between you and God. Don't try to push your convictions on others. God may have a separate plan for you and how He deals with you and teaches you is different from how He teaches and deals with other people.
All you need to know is, that ALL THINGS work ACCORDING TO HIS PLAN. NOT YOURS.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,214
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#30
Wow and we claim to be Christians! I read every single comment on here and all I found out was that the majority of people on here claiming to be Christ-like, did nothing but try to tear each other down. Over what? CHRISTMAS!
It is CLEARLY a matter of conviction. If God has convicted you to not celebrate Christmas, that is between you and God. Don't try to push your convictions on others. God may have a separate plan for you and how He deals with you and teaches you is different from how He teaches and deals with other people.
All you need to know is, that ALL THINGS work ACCORDING TO HIS PLAN. NOT YOURS.
The voice of reason has spoken! but in all seriousness bro thats about all you will find in the bible discussion forum, sooooo ya ima go look at something have a nice day:]
 
Nov 29, 2012
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#31
It doesn't matter. If I don't know that's why the date was changed, then in my mind I'm celebrating Jesus' birth. And God looks at the heart.

But the thing is, Christmas can become very self-centred, that's the only issue I have with it.
God looks at the heart, but so does satan..
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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#32
God looks at the heart, but so does satan..
How does Satan look at our heart? And where does it say in scripture that Satan has this capability to look into the human heart?
 

jandian

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2011
772
11
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#33
While I do not agree with pulling down someone's Christianity; nether do I believe it has any impact on your salvation....
I do wonder why Christians would choose to celebrate a pagan religion as the birth of Jesus Christ. Are we not aware of the evil that is associated with it?....I remember God saying not to learn the way of the heathen and then bring it before Him because it reminds Him of what the heathen did. Well, I am sorry to say that is exactly what we do with Christmas. We like it; so we rather hold on to it that consider that it might actually remind God of the sacrifices that the heathens did during these celebrations...We have to come to a place where we are willing to let of go of everything that does not have anything to do with God. He is worth it..
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#34
Let's see..... people argue at the drop of a hat, & Robot drops a very large hat..... Ok, I get it!
 
Nov 29, 2012
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#35
How does Satan look at our heart? And where does it say in scripture that Satan has this capability to look into the human heart?
Not literally 'look into' human hearts, but he CAN fill your heart if you let him, and how can he do that without seeing into it?

Acts 5:3
Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#36
Let's see..... people argue at the drop of a hat, & Robot drops a very large hat..... Ok, I get it!
lol, Robot seems to do that and then leaves........
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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#37
Not literally 'look into' human hearts, but he CAN fill your heart if you let him, and how can he do that without seeing into it?

Acts 5:3
Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?
I'm not so sure Satan can fill a believers heart. Our savior has defeated Satan and is much stronger then him....Can Satan and his minions tempt us, maybe. I'm not sure if Ananias was saved. And if he was, are we sure Peter wasn't just using a hyperbole to describe Ananias' sinful actions?
 
Nov 29, 2012
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#38
I'm not so sure Satan can fill a believers heart. Our savior has defeated Satan and is much stronger then him....Can Satan and his minions tempt us, maybe. I'm not sure if Ananias was saved. And if he was, are we sure Peter wasn't just using a hyperbole to describe Ananias' sinful actions?

Doesn't matter if you are saved our not, i think, satan has a way of getting to you, so we should ALWAYS be on the alert.

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.


Christ may have defeated satan, but that was not the final victory, that is yet too come. There's a lot of scripture about that...


Peter said what he said, who are we to say it was meant as a metaphore or a hyperbole or anything like that?
I for once take the Bible literally, and so should you.
 
Dec 6, 2012
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#39
Doesn't matter if you are saved our not, i think, satan has a way of getting to you, so we should ALWAYS be on the alert.

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.


Christ may have defeated satan, but that was not the final victory, that is yet too come. There's a lot of scripture about that...


Peter said what he said, who are we to say it was meant as a metaphore or a hyperbole or anything like that?
I for once take the Bible literally, and so should you.
Satan goes on the hunt for prey that he can sneak upon and grasp with his mouth. The tester.

It is human's ease of doubt, ease of deception which needs defeated.

God is so much more powerful than Lucifer.

Lucifer is just to test. He is the adversary to men.

He said to God, of Job, that Job would only stay on God's path given that he had all the things that God gave to him. And asked God if he could test Job to show that his faith was real, and not just for material possessions.

And Job passed the test.

Satan is like the person who will make sure that we stick unto God, who will test us to see how far we will go for God.

He did it to Jesus, asking if Jesus would turn the rocks to food. Saying that he would give him all the dominion of the earth if Jesus would bow down to him.

Yet Jesus refused and thus passed Satan's tests.

All through scripture, he is nothing more than a tester.

He tested Eve in the garden, to see whether she would stick to what God told her, whether she would go to God and say 'God, a serpent approached me' .... or whether she would take the decision herself to do something other than what God has asked of her.

Human's a programmed to do such things. Nobody is sinless in this.

And in a way, it is part of the plan that Satan is Satan. And that we are humans. And that we sin.

Because if it weren't, and if God had not allowed for Satan to be in the garden, he would not have been there.

I suspect that we need to be in FULL realisation of our sin to ever be able to turn from it in free will.

There is much difference between being 'wrapped in cotton wool' and not sinning, than being 'dropped in the deep end' and learning to swim.

We always have a lifeguard to pull us out, but it is better that we learn to swim and enjoy the water for what it is.

So to speak.

Anyway .. I went off on one.

My point is, some things are metaphorical. Some things are hyperbole. Some idioms. Some stories. Some depictions. And some literal.
 
Nov 29, 2012
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#40
My point is, some things are metaphorical. Some things are hyperbole. Some idioms. Some stories. Some depictions. And some literal.
Historical criticism puts you on a slippery slope that leads to atheism. The Bible is God's Word, but you make it sound as if it's just another piece of literature. In principle we should take it quite literally, unless specified otherwise in the Bible ITSELF. If Jesus tells us a story AS a parable, we can assume it IS some sort of a metaphor, for instance. The choice of liberal theologians to call this or that story JUST a metaphore, or JUST a hyperbole etc is mostly completely arbitrary, and only serves the weaken the faith of true christians. Ultimatiey it serves the agenda of liberal politics. And who are they to say this or that story is JUST a metaphor anyway? A verse that comes to mind:

Matthew 18:7
7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!