You Dont Need to Believe the Bible to Be a Christian

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Dec 1, 2014
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faith in Him as the One Who died for us and lives again is the minimum requirement
Amen to this. And yet some believe in Him but not in His Resurrection. ????
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Not humorous. Trying to illustrate or show we can't claim to be Christian while claiming disbelief in the bible.
a man can be a Christian without believing in verbal inspiration, but belief in Jesus Christ as the only Son of God is essential
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Amen to this. And yet some believe in Him but not in His Resurrection. ????
it would seem to me that belief in His physical resurrection while desirable is not essential, but belief in His resurrection in some way is essential.
 
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Aug 15, 2009
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Jesus isn't strong enough to correct our mistakes? The beast is stronger than Jesus?
How can he, since Radical Gracers believe He doesn't convict them of sin, & no longer demands repentance?
 

sharkwhales

Senior Member
Jan 31, 2016
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So here is the answer the site gave back to me when I asked "are you saying the Bible is not integral to the Christian life"

we are not saying the Bible isn't important.

However, we are pushing back against the common prominence and importance that Biblical literalists and inerrantists so often give it.

They give it the status of perfection and infallibility. We disagree with this.

They give it the status of being --literally-- the words of God, as if they were dictated to people who transcribed them word for word. We do not.

They give it the status of being equivalent to God when they call the Bible God's Word - capital W - which we equate with idolatry.

They wrongly see scripture verses that talk about God's word and think it is referring to "The Bible" when it is not.

They wrongly ascribe belief in the Bible in the way in which they believe in the Bible as necessary for salvation as if "holding proper beliefs about the bible" is essential for salvation and in some way salvific.

We take the Bible very seriously.
We give the Bible credit for being very important and useful.

But we do not deify the Bible in the way we see other Christians do. And we see this elevation of status and deification as often problematic because it leads to inaccurate literalism and dogma that ends up hurting the cause of Christ.


Wow!

Late to the party here, but my take is this:

Technically they are right, the Bible can be twisted and was twisted even by Satan when he used verses, therefore to call it infallible is often misleading. It is not God even if God is in it and uses it.

However the heart of what God has spoken to mankind corporately -- his Word to us as a group -- is in the Bible. Mankind's error and need for God, and God's very personal response, the Gospel.

Wilkinson cites doctrines and verses that offend the world's sensibilities and human-centered value systems. Presumably these are his reasons for demoting the authority of the Bible. These are the wrong reasons. It is fine to point out the humanity of the Bible and how then, as now, people can misinterpret and misapply. It is vital to point out the need for humility, compassion, and real love towards neighbors and enemies.

It is not okay to use the humanity of the Bible as justification to mix in worldly teachings. "I don't understand this or am offended by this, therefore I will improve it by adding something the world at large will find easier to stomach." Absolutely not from the Holy Spirit. In the spiritual realm, the world's system and God's system are built on different values and cannot coexist. So to mix them is to expand the world's system.

The world by default worships the human experience and gives authority to the human experience in how it defines its values. That, and, modern western culture is somewhat oblivious to the cost of life and the privilege it enjoys relative to most other humans throughout history. This is why they are offended by a God that did not treat all human life the way they pretend to treat it. This is also why they're in a terrible position to project ethics onto ancient scenarios.

When this website says, above all, love, I wonder if they are putting love above the truth. In God, love and truth are vitally interdependent. Love requires trust, but dishonesty destroys intimacy and creates distance. So you have to have truth to provide a framework for real love. If you put love above all, even above truth, you are not talking about God's love, but a worldly form of love, which becomes code for 'love humanity above all (even above God)'. Yes you can idolize the bible, but you can idolize love too, if you separate it from God's truth, it becomes man's love and not God's true love.
 
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Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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There's a technicality here..... Sure, some have gotten saved without a Bible. I've read many testimonies where muslims were lead to Christ by God dealing directly with them.

But, while many of these same people were led to Christ, but didn't accept Him until they read a Bible.

The rest of them got a Bible as quickly as possible.

The Bottom line..... every one has to hear the Gospel before they can get saved. They have to hear the Word else they can't get saved.
This is very interesting about what God is doing with Muslims! In seminary for World Religions, our professor was a missionary on sabbatical from Indonesia, where he shared the gospel with head hunters and Muslims. The head hunters were not that hard to share with. They would change the shrunken heads in their pouches on their waists, for portions of the Bible which were translated into their language! He said, before they were saved, they thought the heads of people they had killed were their "power." After that, they realized that the Bible was their power, because they learned about Jesus in it.

The Muslims were quite different. He would make friends with them, talk about Jesus a bit, try and steer them away from the Isa concept of Jesus as a good man. But he said, it usually took about 2 years, and then they would come to him, saying God had given them a dream about Isa, and that he was more than just a man, would he explain what that meant.

He would share the gospel, and then God would truly save them. Then he would teach them from the Bible, and they would start witnessing to other Muslims. (You can do this in Indonesia, not so much the Arab countries!)

I read a book a few years after I took that class, and it said the same thing. God would send dreams and visions, but he would also always place a Christian in their path, to explain the gospel.

The name of that book is "Dreams and Visions: Is Jesus Awakening the Muslim World?" By Tom Doyle. Interesting read!

PS. That professor went back to Indonesia, where he continues to bring the gospel to Muslims and various tribal people! Oh, that professor had a Ph.D in anthropology, just in case anyone thinks you can't bring people to Christ if you are educated. And his theology was very conservative, from all the class discussions we had!
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
I think it shows that just because we call ourselves christian does not make it so.

and no. It would not change my view.. The pharisee could quote scripture verbatim, It did him no good to know the word.. (he did not really know it)
The Pharisees problem wasn't knowing the Word too much,the problem was they didn't apply it.

Matt 23-The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat,3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice."
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
Exactly.
(My fault. I should've put quotes around my post - the one you responded to. My post was trying to show how foolish to claim to be a Christian but not believe in the bible. I thought the last line of my post would show that. It didn't.)
I got it,almost missed it but I thought about it.lol I get what you are saying.Good point.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
How can he, since Radical Gracers believe He doesn't convict them of sin, & no longer demands repentance?
Got to catch this one fast.I dont want this turned into another "grace" thread. 500 pages of argument.Lets stay on topic. 13 pages without an argument must be a miracle in the Bible forum.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
Amen to this. And yet some believe in Him but not in His Resurrection. ????
Dont see how you can believe in Jesus and not His resurrection. A babe in the faith maybe.That is why we need to read the Bible.
 
Mar 21, 2017
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it would seem to me that belief in His physical resurrection while desirable is not essential, but belief in His resurrection in some way is essential.
Thank you. But that statement sure does make a mess out of the clear statements of scripture. Concerning His resurrection, it ain't complicated. Three days after Jesus was crucified (to death) and buried in a tomb (sealed and guarded), He was raised from the dead.
I'll go with the word of God's messengers angels and the record of their statement found in Matthew 28.6 - in the bible. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Can't be any plainer. Body there. Body not there. Risen. Just as He said. Look for yourself.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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oh just chilling looking at the world and wondering how many nutjobs there are in the world... like the radical once saved always savers lol
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
oh just chilling looking at the world and wondering how many nutjobs there are in the world... like the radical once saved always savers lol

Ok,off the ice. You and Utah off you go.Penalty box until you behave!
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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LANGUAGE:

My point about language was just in GENERAL TERMS, not specifically about "spoken" language.
My point was that God is going to primarily communicate with us through human language (especially in his more complex concepts) because God specifically created language with the PURPOSE of communicating with him.


HUMAN INSTRUMENTS:

Since God is currently using human instruments (the body of christ) as his hands, feet, and mouth... God will mostly likely send a HUMAN PREACHER when people are ready to hear.

Although the world contains many "people groups" without the bible translated into their language,
I doubt there are many people groups without access to people who DO have the bible.

It's probably a fair guess that most remote people groups at least have access to people who DO have the bible.

Although we DO need to keep sending missionaries to remote places, I think that currently...
we probably have far more pagans in New York and Paris than we have in New Guinea.




hi maxwel,

sorry if I misunderstood you.

since you'd used Adam as an example, I assumed you were referring to spoken language... unless you were saying God gave Adam written language?