You who are without sin, throw the first stone!
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The ones that are not decieved by false teachings. The ones that knows the Truth and the Truth has made them free. The ones that KEEP God's Word. The ones that endured to the end and are saved. The ones who God predestined before the earth was formed. The ones God calls BRETHREN and are not ashamed to do so. The ones that are made ONE with God through His salvation. The nes Jesus present to Himself glorious and without spot or wrinkle... The ones that DO NOT fight for this world, becasue they are not of this world. The ones that are in God's Kingdom, RIGHT HERE ON EARTH...
They have MANY characteristics, that most people cannot even fathom in a man. The Bible teaches a lot about these elect FEW! God says they walk on a NARROW PATH, the World on a wide one... Sin is wide, God's will is NARROW...
Jesus talks a lot about YOU and THEY, or US and THEM. There are only two groups of people here on earth. God's and NOT God's. Jesus says one group will be His, and the other NOT!
I guess the elect is the ones Jesus prayed for in John 17... Father I pray for them that Thou hast given me, I pray NOT for the world.... And I pray for them also wh shall believe ON ME THROUGH THEIR WORD....
The World CANNOT receive the Spirit of Truth, but the ones that believe on Jesus they DO receive the Spirit of Truth, that is why they KNOW THE TRUTH, and are made FREE by the Truth...
Jesus said, If HE makes you free you are free indeed... FREE FROM ALL EVIL AND SIN.... WOW! That is who the elect are. The ones made free BY JESUS!
They have MANY characteristics, that most people cannot even fathom in a man. The Bible teaches a lot about these elect FEW! God says they walk on a NARROW PATH, the World on a wide one... Sin is wide, God's will is NARROW...
Jesus talks a lot about YOU and THEY, or US and THEM. There are only two groups of people here on earth. God's and NOT God's. Jesus says one group will be His, and the other NOT!
I guess the elect is the ones Jesus prayed for in John 17... Father I pray for them that Thou hast given me, I pray NOT for the world.... And I pray for them also wh shall believe ON ME THROUGH THEIR WORD....
The World CANNOT receive the Spirit of Truth, but the ones that believe on Jesus they DO receive the Spirit of Truth, that is why they KNOW THE TRUTH, and are made FREE by the Truth...
Jesus said, If HE makes you free you are free indeed... FREE FROM ALL EVIL AND SIN.... WOW! That is who the elect are. The ones made free BY JESUS!
The New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb
Revelation 21:9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
And no there is no such thing as a spiritual Israelite, these are a nation of people who fell in 70 AD and will be restored back.
What about this Romans 11:25... For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Israel was made blind untill the fulness of the Gentiles be come in... COME IN WHERE?
Israel was made blind untill the fulness of the Gentiles be come in... COME IN WHERE?
G
One thing that I find it very difficult about the bible is that there are so many verses that seems to contradict each other at first glance - yet were still given by the same God and still make sense when you can understand the reasons that they were written.
To me, it seems like these two verses that you guys have pulled out are against each other.
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
- Romans 6:6
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
- 1 John 1:8-9
Can anybody explain how these two don't contradict each other? But both must be right in their own ways.
Now to guys like Cobus and Skinski, can you really say that you can be a believer for xxx years and stay so clean that you don't have to confess even a single sin during that time? Can you actually be sure that you never had a single moment where you thought that you weren't being loving to a neighbour?
To me, it seems like these two verses that you guys have pulled out are against each other.
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
- Romans 6:6
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
- 1 John 1:8-9
Can anybody explain how these two don't contradict each other? But both must be right in their own ways.
Now to guys like Cobus and Skinski, can you really say that you can be a believer for xxx years and stay so clean that you don't have to confess even a single sin during that time? Can you actually be sure that you never had a single moment where you thought that you weren't being loving to a neighbour?
The Bible says this...
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Clearly sin can be more than simply a transgression of the Law of Moses for sin reigned from Adam to Moses BEFORE the Law was given and this sin is described as "not after the similitude of Adam's transgression."
Adam's transgression was they he disobeyed a direct commandment of God.
When Cain sinned by murdering his brother was he disobeying a direct commandment of God? Did God command Cain "thou shalt not kill" ?
Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Gen 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
Gen 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
I don't think so. I think Cain had the "light of conscience" and thus new to "doest well" but he didn't rule over the sin that lay at the door and thus yielded to temptation and transgressed.
Paul writes...
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
The "righteousness of the law" is written upon the hearts of men and this law is made manifest to all people via the "light of conscience." This is why we have no excuse and why God will judge the secrets of men. God looks at the HEART.
The condemnation spoken of in the Bible is the "rejection of light."
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Doing evil is clearly to turn away from the light.
Here is another passage, written by Paul, which sheds light on mind of God in regards to unrighteousness...
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
You see it is not about obedience to the "letter of the law." It is about obedience to righteousness...
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
This is why Paul preached FAITH as opposed to LAW KEEPING.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Does faith void the law? NO! It establishes the law. Does faith establish "the letter of the law" or does it establish "the spirit of the law"? Let's examine that.
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Here Paul is quoting David...
Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Why does David speakof a "spirit without guile" and connect it to "not having iniquity imputed"? It's because David understood the root of sin and the basis of justification. David understood this...
Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
Which is a parallel to this...
Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
David did not hide his sin. He confessed it and forsook it and received forgiveness. Thus David did this...
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Hence...
Psa 51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
Psa 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Psa 51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
Psa 51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psa 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Psa 51:14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
Which is why he wrote...
Psa 32:6 For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.
Psa 32:7 Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah.
Psa 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
Psa 32:9 Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
Psa 32:10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the LORD, mercy shall compass him about.
Psa 32:11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.
The issue is the HEART. Again I quote...
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Which is why...
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
That which is abolished? The vail which is done away in Christ? Surely a parallel to...
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Which is why...
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
When Jesus said "keep the commandments" it is within the context of...
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
We know this is true because Jesus taught...
Mat_23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Which Paul clearly understood...
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Now I have a question for you.
If love is the fulfilling of the law (Rom 13:10) and we walk by a faith that works by love (Gal 5:6) and if we dead to the law by the body of Christ (Rom 7:4) whereby we serve God in newness of spirit (Rom 7:6) where being led we are not under the law (Gal 5:18) why is it that people like you promote "keeping the letter" yet never seem to speak of "walking after the Spirit"? Maybe you do speak of that and I missed it as I only briefly perused your writings.
I went to this page...
http://christianchat.com/search.php?searchid=193042
I see a lot written about paganism, sunday worship versus Sabbath keeping, obey the commandments etc. Yet I see not a single mention of a "faith that works by love" or how "faith establishes the law" or how "those who walk after the Spirit are not under the law" or that "love fulfills the law."
Perhaps there is a veil upon your heart?
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Clearly sin can be more than simply a transgression of the Law of Moses for sin reigned from Adam to Moses BEFORE the Law was given and this sin is described as "not after the similitude of Adam's transgression."
Adam's transgression was they he disobeyed a direct commandment of God.
When Cain sinned by murdering his brother was he disobeying a direct commandment of God? Did God command Cain "thou shalt not kill" ?
Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Gen 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
Gen 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
I don't think so. I think Cain had the "light of conscience" and thus new to "doest well" but he didn't rule over the sin that lay at the door and thus yielded to temptation and transgressed.
Paul writes...
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
The "righteousness of the law" is written upon the hearts of men and this law is made manifest to all people via the "light of conscience." This is why we have no excuse and why God will judge the secrets of men. God looks at the HEART.
The condemnation spoken of in the Bible is the "rejection of light."
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Doing evil is clearly to turn away from the light.
Here is another passage, written by Paul, which sheds light on mind of God in regards to unrighteousness...
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
You see it is not about obedience to the "letter of the law." It is about obedience to righteousness...
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
This is why Paul preached FAITH as opposed to LAW KEEPING.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Does faith void the law? NO! It establishes the law. Does faith establish "the letter of the law" or does it establish "the spirit of the law"? Let's examine that.
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Here Paul is quoting David...
Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Why does David speakof a "spirit without guile" and connect it to "not having iniquity imputed"? It's because David understood the root of sin and the basis of justification. David understood this...
Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
Which is a parallel to this...
Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
David did not hide his sin. He confessed it and forsook it and received forgiveness. Thus David did this...
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Hence...
Psa 51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
Psa 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Psa 51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
Psa 51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psa 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Psa 51:14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
Which is why he wrote...
Psa 32:6 For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.
Psa 32:7 Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah.
Psa 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
Psa 32:9 Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
Psa 32:10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the LORD, mercy shall compass him about.
Psa 32:11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.
The issue is the HEART. Again I quote...
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Which is why...
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
That which is abolished? The vail which is done away in Christ? Surely a parallel to...
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Which is why...
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
When Jesus said "keep the commandments" it is within the context of...
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
We know this is true because Jesus taught...
Mat_23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Which Paul clearly understood...
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Now I have a question for you.
If love is the fulfilling of the law (Rom 13:10) and we walk by a faith that works by love (Gal 5:6) and if we dead to the law by the body of Christ (Rom 7:4) whereby we serve God in newness of spirit (Rom 7:6) where being led we are not under the law (Gal 5:18) why is it that people like you promote "keeping the letter" yet never seem to speak of "walking after the Spirit"? Maybe you do speak of that and I missed it as I only briefly perused your writings.
I went to this page...
http://christianchat.com/search.php?searchid=193042
I see a lot written about paganism, sunday worship versus Sabbath keeping, obey the commandments etc. Yet I see not a single mention of a "faith that works by love" or how "faith establishes the law" or how "those who walk after the Spirit are not under the law" or that "love fulfills the law."
Perhaps there is a veil upon your heart?
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
One has to understand the difference between "sin unto death" and "sin not unto death." Only the sin rooted in rebellion defiles the heart for it is a rejection of God. When we err in ignorance (not from a willful intent of the heart) we are to confess such sin and move forward. This is why the Bible speaks of...
Pro 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
That Proverb does not mean that a righteous man works iniquity seven times for it is the wicked who work iniquity. I righteous man may do wrong in ignorance but when disciplined will confess that sin and move on.
1Joh 1:8-9 is written within the context of 1Joh 1:7 which speaks of being cleansed by the blood on the condition that we WALK in the light as He is in the light. We don't walk in the light by working iniquity. This is why the author of hebrews wrote...
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The cleansing by the blood (verse 22) is not applicable to ongoing willful sin (verse 26) hence the "walk in the light" being tied to the cleansing in 1Joh 1:7. This 1Joh 1:8-10 is written within the context of Heb 10:22 and Pro 28:13 which speaks of HOW we initially approach God seeking reconciliation. We have to approach God with a true heart being honest about our rebellion, hence we don't hide our sin. That is all John is teaching there because he wants his readers to also have fellowship with the Father and Jesus Christ (1Joh 1:3) and this is an essential aspect.
Many false teachers take 1Joh 1:8-10 and use it to teach "sin you will and sin you must." Is that an honest approach to those verses? Remember John wrote that those born of God DO NOT sin unto death (1Joh 5:16-18) and that those born of God are made MANIFEST to the world by the fact they do not sin (1Joh 3:9-10). Not that John is saying that a child of God does not err but rather they do not work iniquity, ie. they are not in rebellion to God whereby they do wrong KNOWINGLY (hence Heb 10:26).
It is a truth MANY reject because it portrays the way to eternal life as strait and narrow and indeed involves self denial as Jesus taught. It is much more soothing to the flesh to believe in "sin you will and sin you must" whereby you can continue to sin (just less than before) and just confess it each time. Thus many people live a life of sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent and NEVER truly experience inward heart purity.
Pro 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
That Proverb does not mean that a righteous man works iniquity seven times for it is the wicked who work iniquity. I righteous man may do wrong in ignorance but when disciplined will confess that sin and move on.
1Joh 1:8-9 is written within the context of 1Joh 1:7 which speaks of being cleansed by the blood on the condition that we WALK in the light as He is in the light. We don't walk in the light by working iniquity. This is why the author of hebrews wrote...
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The cleansing by the blood (verse 22) is not applicable to ongoing willful sin (verse 26) hence the "walk in the light" being tied to the cleansing in 1Joh 1:7. This 1Joh 1:8-10 is written within the context of Heb 10:22 and Pro 28:13 which speaks of HOW we initially approach God seeking reconciliation. We have to approach God with a true heart being honest about our rebellion, hence we don't hide our sin. That is all John is teaching there because he wants his readers to also have fellowship with the Father and Jesus Christ (1Joh 1:3) and this is an essential aspect.
Many false teachers take 1Joh 1:8-10 and use it to teach "sin you will and sin you must." Is that an honest approach to those verses? Remember John wrote that those born of God DO NOT sin unto death (1Joh 5:16-18) and that those born of God are made MANIFEST to the world by the fact they do not sin (1Joh 3:9-10). Not that John is saying that a child of God does not err but rather they do not work iniquity, ie. they are not in rebellion to God whereby they do wrong KNOWINGLY (hence Heb 10:26).
It is a truth MANY reject because it portrays the way to eternal life as strait and narrow and indeed involves self denial as Jesus taught. It is much more soothing to the flesh to believe in "sin you will and sin you must" whereby you can continue to sin (just less than before) and just confess it each time. Thus many people live a life of sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent and NEVER truly experience inward heart purity.
G
Skinski, I would agree that forgiveness and repentance is there so that we can have another chance at growing into a better person. It's fair to say that God expects plenty in return for having his Son bear the agony of being mutilated on the cross.
Your don't say that a Christian won't screw up and disobey from time to time, which is reassuring to hear.
I guess generally speaking, if our obedience continues to improve and our trust in God gets better and better over time, we might give God enough chances to clean us fully on the inside before judgement day arrives.
I hope I'm not mistaken.
Your don't say that a Christian won't screw up and disobey from time to time, which is reassuring to hear.
I guess generally speaking, if our obedience continues to improve and our trust in God gets better and better over time, we might give God enough chances to clean us fully on the inside before judgement day arrives.
I hope I'm not mistaken.
Skinski, I would agree that forgiveness and repentance is there so that we can have another chance at growing into a better person. It's fair to say that God expects plenty in return for having his Son bear the agony of being mutilated on the cross.
Your don't say that a Christian won't screw up and disobey from time to time, which is reassuring to hear.
I guess generally speaking, if our obedience continues to improve and our trust in God gets better and better over time, we might give God enough chances to clean us fully on the inside before judgement day arrives.
I hope I'm not mistaken.
Your don't say that a Christian won't screw up and disobey from time to time, which is reassuring to hear.
I guess generally speaking, if our obedience continues to improve and our trust in God gets better and better over time, we might give God enough chances to clean us fully on the inside before judgement day arrives.
I hope I'm not mistaken.
I do not find anywhere in the Bible where the disobedient will be accepted into the kingdom.
Yet I do read this...
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Either Paul is exaggerating there or he is speaking the truth plainly.
This notion that everything is hunky dory so long as you are "disobeying less and less" is clearly the opposite of what the Bible teaches.
The Bible says this...
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
It doesn't say that "God is the author of eternal salvation of those who disobey less and less and therefore obey more and more." It just does not say that, it says "them that obey him." So why do people try and create wiggle room for ongoing disobedience from time to time? I suspect it is because they don't really want to obey wholeheartedly and therefore take comfort in a notion that partial obedience is acceptable.
Jesus said this...
Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Was Jesus serious when He taught that "IF thine eye be single the whole body shall be full of light." Is it wise to teach that our eye cannot be single all the time, as long as it is single more and more and we serve two masters less and less then we'll be ok?
Likewise I see this in the Bible...
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Won't God be mocked for being a great exaggerator if he winks at disobedience and allows the disobedient to enter the kingdom? Surely such a notion would mean that the prophets of old and people like Paul were exaggerators. Were they?
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Does forsake really mean forsake or does it mean just do it less than before?
G
I am not saying that God lets in those who don't want to listen to him. I guess I'll agree that he does expect you to be perfect by the end.
That being said, what do you mean by "sinning willfully"? Does it mean that those who have backslided have lost their chance even after repenting?
Needless to say, I am not asking for permission to backslide, however...
That being said, what do you mean by "sinning willfully"? Does it mean that those who have backslided have lost their chance even after repenting?
Needless to say, I am not asking for permission to backslide, however...
It means this...
Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Most people who "backslid" never really repented in the first place. There is simply no more sacrifice remaining for willful sin because the Bible clearly teaches that the blood of Christ is to cleanse us of all sin. To go back to our old ways and defile ourselves again is to treat the blood of Christ with contempt, as if you can just use it over and over like animal blood.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Look at that warning above. It is not a cryptic warning, it means exactly what it says. If one sins willfully after having been sanctified by the blood it is treading under foot the blood of Christ and thus holding grace in contempt.
So many people are in denial of the above warning because to them the blood of Christ is a cloak for an ongoing state of defilement. They believe in "sin you will and sin you must" and thus deny that the grace of God is the power to live in victory over sin. Paul warned that in the latter times that there would be those who despise those who are good yet have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.
Also bear in mind that I am not saying that a person who sins willfully is beyond hope for there is always hope this side of eternity. Yet those engaged in willful sin had better take the condition of their heart seriously and therefore the issue of sin very seriously and diligently seek the face of God whereby they can find that godly sorrow that works a genuine repentance. The mindset produced by a genuine repentance has to be a wholehearted yielding to God. Anything less is a false repentance.
Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Most people who "backslid" never really repented in the first place. There is simply no more sacrifice remaining for willful sin because the Bible clearly teaches that the blood of Christ is to cleanse us of all sin. To go back to our old ways and defile ourselves again is to treat the blood of Christ with contempt, as if you can just use it over and over like animal blood.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Look at that warning above. It is not a cryptic warning, it means exactly what it says. If one sins willfully after having been sanctified by the blood it is treading under foot the blood of Christ and thus holding grace in contempt.
So many people are in denial of the above warning because to them the blood of Christ is a cloak for an ongoing state of defilement. They believe in "sin you will and sin you must" and thus deny that the grace of God is the power to live in victory over sin. Paul warned that in the latter times that there would be those who despise those who are good yet have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.
Also bear in mind that I am not saying that a person who sins willfully is beyond hope for there is always hope this side of eternity. Yet those engaged in willful sin had better take the condition of their heart seriously and therefore the issue of sin very seriously and diligently seek the face of God whereby they can find that godly sorrow that works a genuine repentance. The mindset produced by a genuine repentance has to be a wholehearted yielding to God. Anything less is a false repentance.
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Revelation 7:[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, [SUP]3 [/SUP]saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
these are your elect, The children of Israel. God even showed Isaiah a vision of the last days in Isaiah 14, And Isaiah said AND THE LORD WILL HAVE MERCY ON JACOB AND WILL YET CHOOSE ISRAE AND SET THem in there own land.
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H
Hi yahuadah,
Skinski7 is under the law and therefore will be judged by the law, as whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
He quotes Heb 10:26, but he misunderstands that the "willfull sin" it speaks of, refers to those who willfully choose to remain under the law for righteousness (thus making themselves a transgressor/sinner, Gal 2:18), in spite of having received the knowledge of the truth of the gospel of Christ.
Skinski7 is under the law and therefore will be judged by the law, as whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
He quotes Heb 10:26, but he misunderstands that the "willfull sin" it speaks of, refers to those who willfully choose to remain under the law for righteousness (thus making themselves a transgressor/sinner, Gal 2:18), in spite of having received the knowledge of the truth of the gospel of Christ.
Which means until the time of the gentiles is fulfilled. And we are in the time of the gentiles until Christ second coming and restores the 12 tribes of Israel.
Luke 21.:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And that's why Paul also say by the fall of the Israel salvation has come to the gentiles meaning the riches of this world not christ kingdom the kingdom of heaven