youre definition of sin ?

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Nov 22, 2015
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#61
I see Jesus as the greatest law preacher - to those that were self-righteous ( pluck out your eyes..be perfect..etc. )

I also see Jesus as the greatest grace preacher - to those that knew they needed Him. ( like the woman caught in adultery )

I'm saying that we nee to live by the Spirit within us. The flesh profits nothing. As we let the love of Christ that is already in us flow out to us...then we will fulfill the teachings of Jesus in our every day life.

Romans 13:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.



lol I have always taken plucking out the eye as a way to show the seriousness of sin, I never have taken it literally, honestly I think if He was literally teaching to pluck our eyes out no one in eternity would have eyes or hands. but that's just my own thought lol. so are you saying that we shouldn't put our own effort into following Jesus teachings? that His sermons and teachings aren't our standards as Christians?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#62
Here is a scripture that might shed some light on the "spirit" that is working in the world now...what is your take on this scripture in relation to "sin being a spirit".

Ephesians 2:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.



I do absolutely see a correlation and I see how it makes sense that we need to receive the holy spirit, if adams spirit in us is sinful (and it is) I see that it operates the same way. sin is a spirit , righteousness a spirit. I believe spirit is transferred through words and now days images, music ect.... for example the serpent used words to envoke thoughts, doubt and then used words to spin His lies to adam and eve. I notice that satan doesn't use physical power to destroy, but just words to envoke what is already living in us through adam the original sinner and our natural father, to destroy ourselves. I'm sure you know umm romans...I believe chapter 5 where it talks about death through adam, and life through Christ. I began seeing correlations in many things a few years or so ago. and how sin works, and righteousness work much the same way through our hearts, has given freedom that I could never have understood or known if not for Gods Word. thank you very much for your wonderful insights, I appreciate you taking the time to discuss :) God bless you
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#63
And what did Jesus say:

Matthew 22:36-40New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
yep they all hang on those two commands......the verses you quoted earlier about perfection are preceded by Love your enemies though is what I was saying (matthew 5:43-48) you have heard that it was said love your neighbor as yourself and hate your enemy But I tell you Love your enemies and pray for those who -persecute you that you may be sons of your father in heaven............v48 be perfect therefore as your heavenly Father is perfect." the first verses you quoted about being perfect are directly tied to v43-47. and I would add that it is Love in action and truth as written in first John and James and 1st peter that we are to have for our neighbors, not words or idle notions or even kind warm feelings but to Love as an action = feed the hungry, clothe the naked, ect....
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#64
I am just interested in hearing peoples idea of what sin means to them, not looking to argue or anything, but to learn
You're definition of sin? No, I am defined by Christ!
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
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#65
yep they all hang on those two commands......the verses you quoted earlier about perfection are preceded by Love your enemies though is what I was saying (matthew 5:43-48) you have heard that it was said love your neighbor as yourself and hate your enemy But I tell you Love your enemies and pray for those who -persecute you that you may be sons of your father in heaven............v48 be perfect therefore as your heavenly Father is perfect." the first verses you quoted about being perfect are directly tied to v43-47. and I would add that it is Love in action and truth as written in first John and James and 1st peter that we are to have for our neighbors, not words or idle notions or even kind warm feelings but to Love as an action = feed the hungry, clothe the naked, ect....


And yet it all hangs on love....which all the Law and prophets hang on...Love God..Love neighbour..all of this comes from?? again here is what Machen.

This law is grounded in the infinite perfection of the being of God Himself. "Be ye therefore perfect," said Jesus, "even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" (Matthew 5:48). That is the standard. It is a holy law, as God Himself is holy. If that be the law of God, how awful a thing is sin! Not an offence against some rule proceeding from temporal authority or enforced by temporal penalties, but an offence against the infinite and eternal God!
Read the whole article:
What is sin

J Gresham Machen
 
P

planitsoon

Guest
#66
The shortest definition of sin is the word "I" ... I want...I think...:)

The biggest lesson we have to learn is to get over ourselves and out of ourselves and into the mind of Christ!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#67
Amen!

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.


The shortest definition of sin is the word "I" ... I want...I think...:)

The biggest lesson we have to learn is to get over ourselves and out of ourselves and into the mind of Christ!
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#68
Here is a scripture that might shed some light on the "spirit" that is working in the world now...what is your take on this scripture in relation to "sin being a spirit".

Ephesians 2:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.


That is one of the ones that has lead me to this understanding actually. and just looking at the entirety of the plan of salvation. I see the Law of moses as a foundation, the first step in saving a sinful mankind. we Know that Satan once was a high ranking angel who led a rebellion in heaven, and was cast out of heaven to earth with a third of the angels in heaven. We know that heavenly things are spirit. God is spirit. we know from the early chapters of John that God now desires those who worship in spirit and truth.I see Jesus parables and really all of his teachings as spiritual teachings that really are contrary to the mosaic Law. certainly very different. He repeatedly says you have heard long ago.....But I tell you. He says moses permitted you to divorce because of the hardness of your hearts, but I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife accept for marital unfaithfulness causes her to be an adulterer." It is natural to take revenge an eye for an eye is natural and lawful according to the natural law of moses, yet Jesus says the opposite If someone offends you forgive them, if they strike you, turn to them the other cheek, if they steal your cloak, give them also your tunic, do not resist an evil person....ect. These things are contrary to the natural laws written on stone tablets, for a sinful people with a sinful spirit. to forgive is spiritual, it is grace, it is to be like God to forgive others ect. I am convinced that the entire new testament needs to be understood spiritually. and the more I do, I see that galatians is right on when it states that the curse of the law has been removed, and I have found that the less I struggle against or acknowledge sin the less power it has because my attention is on Christ. and the more that is my focus the clearer the spirits voice.......I really needed this discussion and it has truly lifted me tonight, and strengthened something in me, thank you very much I am glad you took the time
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#69
The shortest definition of sin is the word "I" ... I want...I think...:)

The biggest lesson we have to learn is to get over ourselves and out of ourselves and into the mind of Christ!
I totally agree and Love how you put that, thank you
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#70
And yet it all hangs on love....which all the Law and prophets hang on...Love God..Love neighbour..all of this comes from?? again here is what Machen.



Read the whole article:
What is sin

J Gresham Machen
ok thanks for ur input
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#72
I agree with you. The purpose of the law was to bring us to Christ.

There is no greater revelation of Jesus Himself. We can be so absorbed in all kinds of other things in the scriptures but nothing compares with knowing Him.

For us Christians this truth will always remain top priority...

2 Peter 3:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

I'm glad that you have been strengthened. Bless you brother!

That is one of the ones that has lead me to this understanding actually. and just looking at the entirety of the plan of salvation. I see the Law of moses as a foundation, the first step in saving a sinful mankind. we Know that Satan once was a high ranking angel who led a rebellion in heaven, and was cast out of heaven to earth with a third of the angels in heaven. We know that heavenly things are spirit. God is spirit. we know from the early chapters of John that God now desires those who worship in spirit and truth.I see Jesus parables and really all of his teachings as spiritual teachings that really are contrary to the mosaic Law. certainly very different. He repeatedly says you have heard long ago.....But I tell you. He says moses permitted you to divorce because of the hardness of your hearts, but I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife accept for marital unfaithfulness causes her to be an adulterer." It is natural to take revenge an eye for an eye is natural and lawful according to the natural law of moses, yet Jesus says the opposite If someone offends you forgive them, if they strike you, turn to them the other cheek, if they steal your cloak, give them also your tunic, do not resist an evil person....ect. These things are contrary to the natural laws written on stone tablets, for a sinful people with a sinful spirit. to forgive is spiritual, it is grace, it is to be like God to forgive others ect. I am convinced that the entire new testament needs to be understood spiritually. and the more I do, I see that galatians is right on when it states that the curse of the law has been removed, and I have found that the less I struggle against or acknowledge sin the less power it has because my attention is on Christ. and the more that is my focus the clearer the spirits voice.......I really needed this discussion and it has truly lifted me tonight, and strengthened something in me, thank you very much I am glad you took the time
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#73
I agree with you. The purpose of the law was to bring us to Christ.

There is no greater revelation of Jesus Himself. We can be so absorbed in all kinds of other things in the scriptures but nothing compares with knowing Him.

For us Christians this truth will always remain top priority...

2 Peter 3:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

I'm glad that you have been strengthened. Bless you brother!

God bless :)
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#74
I see Jesus as the greatest law preacher - to those that were self-righteous ( pluck out your eyes..be perfect..etc. )

I also see Jesus as the greatest grace preacher - to those that knew they needed Him. ( like the woman caught in adultery )

I'm saying that we nee to live by the Spirit within us. The flesh profits nothing. As we let the love of Christ that is already in us flow out to us...then we will fulfill the teachings of Jesus in our every day life.

Romans 13:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
you have some good knowledge and understanding:) of coarse that would be the spirit in you ;) but good stuff thanx again and I am officially out of here :)
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#75
Would Jesus do it? Would you do it with him beside you? Then thats conviction,and you're sinning.[


so is sin based on my understanding of Jesus nature?

Partly,yes. But the Bible tells us what Jesus nature was,so its not open to personal interpretation. Along with what the Bible says about sin, it gives a pretty clear picture of what is sin. When it comes to grey areas I think each person needs to prayerfully decide what the is right thing to do.
 
V

venti2015

Guest
#76
Sin is anything that is against the will of God.
 
E

ember

Guest
#77
I don't go by my definition

Sin is missing the mark


hamartanó: to miss the mark, do wrong, sin
Original Word: ἁμαρτάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hamartanó
Phonetic Spelling: (ham-ar-tan'-o)
Short Definition: I sin
Definition: originally: I miss the mark, hence (a) I make a mistake, (b) I sin, commit a sin (against God); sometimes the idea of sinning against a fellow-creature is present.HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 264 hamartánō (from 1 /A "not" and 3313 /méros, "a part, share") – properly, having no share in; to sin, which always bringsforfeiture – i.e. eternal loss due to missing God's mark. Like 266/hamartía, 264 (hamartánō) is regularly used in ancient times of an archer missing the target (Homer, Aesch., etc). Every decision (action) done apart from faith (4102 /pístis) is sin (Ro 14:23; cf. Heb 11:6). See 266 (hamartia).

God set the mark.

I can't believe folks still think it means keeping the commandments. No...seriously...I just really can't...considering we know that no one can actually keep them



 
S

sparkman

Guest
#78
Sin is disobedience to any commandment that applies to me...a transgression of God's moral law.

I used to be a Sabbath/festival/clean and unclean meat observer, and those people would tell you that sin is transgression of the Old Covenant, Ten Commandments, or their patchwork quilt of Old Covenant commandments. I am not an Israelite that was a party to the Old Covenant, and it's no longer in effect anyways (Acts 15, II Corinthians 3, Hebrews 8 and 9, Ephesians 2:13-15, and Galatians 3 and 4).

Of course, they have their rescue devices regarding their assertions, but they really can't get around that.

The Old Covenant was A revelation of God's character in a juvenile way (it was meant to be temporary and preparatory, almost like kindergarten is preparatory and temporary for more mature mature teaching), and there are moral components within the Old Covenant, but not every commandment in the Old Covenant was moral in nature. Many were ceremonial or ritualistic. Many were shadows that were fulfilled in Christ, who is the reality (Colossians 2:16-17, Hebrews 4:9-10 indicates that the Sabbath and festivals were part of those). A Spirit-filled Christian can read the Old Covenant and see spiritual and moral principles underneath the specific applications given to Israel, though, and discern moral direction from them.

Anyways, when I think about the definition of sin, my focus is on Jesus Christ and his perfect holiness. He was the full revelation of God's holiness, and not the Old Covenant law. When it gets right down to it, though, God's holiness is the standard. The Sermon on the Mount mentions this in Matthew 5:48. Any deviation from the perfection of God is sin.

Some will read this and claim that it means "maturity" rather than perfection. They will claim that they meet the standard of Matthew 5:48. They are fooling themselves; they don't meet the standard at all, and they are circumventing Christ's teaching in this regard. Christ's sermon on the mount was for the express purpose of showing the Jews how far they fell short. That realization should have caused them to accept their need for him and his grace and mercy and to realize their hopeless reliance upon that for salvation.

I really hate it when lawkeepers and sinless perfectionists claim that they meet God's standard of perfection. It makes me sick to be honest. It circumvents their realization that they are not perfect in the sight of Almighty God, which negates their need for the continual mercy and grace God provides. It can also cause them to deny the concept of imputed righteousness which is fundamental to the gospel message.

While the Sermon on the Mount does prescribe the ideal behavior that Christians need to seek to implement in their daily life through the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, many "lawkeepers" and all "sinless perfectionists" are fooling themselves if they think they are meeting that standard and are not in need of God's continual grace and mercy, and the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. They also fail to realize that the Law (and the Sermon on the Mount) was meant to condemn the Jews and to force them to realize their need for Christ and grace through Him. Read II Corinthians 3 in light of this. The Law had a ministry of condemnation that a lot of "lawkeepers" deny.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#79
Partly,yes. But the Bible tells us what Jesus nature was,so its not open to personal interpretation. Along with what the Bible says about sin, it gives a pretty clear picture of what is sin. When it comes to grey areas I think each person needs to prayerfully decide what the is right thing to do.
so basically your answer is read the bible n pray to find out what is sin? the point of starting this thread is to get a gauge on what people think sin is. thank you for the input.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#80
Sin is disobedience to any commandment that applies to me...a transgression of God's moral law.

I used to be a Sabbath/festival/clean and unclean meat observer, and those people would tell you that sin is transgression of the Old Covenant, Ten Commandments, or their patchwork quilt of Old Covenant commandments. I am not an Israelite that was a party to the Old Covenant, and it's no longer in effect anyways (Acts 15, II Corinthians 3, Hebrews 8 and 9, Ephesians 2:13-15, and Galatians 3 and 4).

Of course, they have their rescue devices regarding their assertions, but they really can't get around that.

The Old Covenant was A revelation of God's character in a juvenile way (it was meant to be temporary and preparatory, almost like kindergarten is preparatory and temporary for more mature mature teaching), and there are moral components within the Old Covenant, but not every commandment in the Old Covenant was moral in nature. Many were ceremonial or ritualistic. Many were shadows that were fulfilled in Christ, who is the reality (Colossians 2:16-17, Hebrews 4:9-10 indicates that the Sabbath and festivals were part of those). A Spirit-filled Christian can read the Old Covenant and see spiritual and moral principles underneath the specific applications given to Israel, though, and discern moral direction from them.

Anyways, when I think about the definition of sin, my focus is on Jesus Christ and his perfect holiness. He was the full revelation of God's holiness, and not the Old Covenant law. When it gets right down to it, though, God's holiness is the standard. The Sermon on the Mount mentions this in Matthew 5:48. Any deviation from the perfection of God is sin.

Some will read this and claim that it means "maturity" rather than perfection. They will claim that they meet the standard of Matthew 5:48. They are fooling themselves; they don't meet the standard at all, and they are circumventing Christ's teaching in this regard. Christ's sermon on the mount was for the express purpose of showing the Jews how far they fell short. That realization should have caused them to accept their need for him and his grace and mercy and to realize their hopeless reliance upon that for salvation.

I really hate it when lawkeepers and sinless perfectionists claim that they meet God's standard of perfection. It makes me sick to be honest. It circumvents their realization that they are not perfect in the sight of Almighty God, which negates their need for the continual mercy and grace God provides. It can also cause them to deny the concept of imputed righteousness which is fundamental to the gospel message.

While the Sermon on the Mount does prescribe the ideal behavior that Christians need to seek to implement in their daily life through the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, many "lawkeepers" and all "sinless perfectionists" are fooling themselves if they think they are meeting that standard and are not in need of God's continual grace and mercy, and the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. They also fail to realize that the Law (and the Sermon on the Mount) was meant to condemn the Jews and to force them to realize their need for Christ and grace through Him. Read II Corinthians 3 in light of this. The Law had a ministry of condemnation that a lot of "lawkeepers" deny.
Quite a bit here to consider, I would say that the sermon on the mount has many purposes not only to condemn jewish self righteous, but much more to reveal to all men the will of God. I understand that I myself need every moment Gods grace and mercy. When I see things like "turn the other cheek" I already understand that I will fail on that one. if a man strikes me, ill strike him twice. I say this with shame, but in honesty. rather than pik and choose as many do, wich teachings are important and wich aren't, so that I may Justify myself in my own eyes... I just take all of Jesus words to heart. this leaves me in a true state of humility because I know His words so well after 25 years of study. I know that by their own actions no one will ever be declared righteous, but we who believe are declared righteous so that we may Have a relationship with God the father, through the body of Christ. for the "express" purpose of Loving one another in truth. by Laying down our own selves for the sake of others. thank you for the insight my friend. God bless you