Magazine uses Sesame Street Characters to Celebrate Marriage Equality Ruling

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 2, 2013
178
0
0
#41
This has Everything to do with Gays and Lesbians, and many destructive relationships we see today. People base love solely on a 'feeling' and since feelings change or are molded by environment many have different 'feelings' and act on it. If we base love on a 'feeling' it essentially justifies us committing adultery, cheating on relationships and marriages based on those 'feelings'. Oh I'm not 'happy' anymore or this will make me 'happy'. I just don't 'feel' the same way anymore how many times have you heard that as an excuse from people? Just because you 'feel' something does not mean its a healthy or a good feeling to act on? Ever been so angry, and not act on the feeling of anger? That's called self control many would do good to have that...Homosexuals and heterosexuals alike.

Exactly. There areindividuals both gay and straight who have commitment issues. But those are a minority in each group. Leaving the original question just what hasthis to do with the topic.





I'm not sure where you want to take this there are several roads you let me know and I'll have the corresponding answer. Better yet I'll just give you all the answers so you can pick whichever road you want to take. A:Your argument is irrelevant and illogical to begin with. Just because one is a Christian does not make them automatically a saint a perfect individual or one who never does wrongs. Whoever made you believe otherwise is a Liar. Secondly, I am not sure which Christians you are looking at but there are certainly self-righteous modern Christians that are less Christians than the biggest atheist out there and pulling an argument from the most extreme case does not make the argument any more relevant. I.E if I take the most extreme atheist who is rude and condescending should I make the assertion all of them are that way? No that's called passing judgment you appear to be good at that.
No one is suggesting that Christians are all saints. My point relates to the significant number ofGod’s laws that modern Christians en mass are happy to ignore.


B: if you are talking about the old testament, we do not have to live by the 'law' as a Christian because when Christ came and died on the cross for you and me and all of our sins he fulfilled that law. In another words, through Christ and his death on the cross we fulfill those laws, or requirements to be in communion with the Lord.
Yes I know


C: New Testament, there are many instances in the New Testament which describes homosexuality as a sin. If you would really like me to find the scriptures corresponding to it you let me know.
The new testament passages have very large problems relatingto translation and context.


By "lifestyle" if you read my post correctly you'd see I am describing a lifestyle of unrepentant sin. As a Christian when you sin you are convicted in your heart and soul by the Holy Spirit. You confess your sin and seek forgiveness. When one commits and sin and ignores it and continues to live in it they are living a lifestyle of unrepentant sin.
That explains…nothing.

I’m asking you exactly what this gay “lifestyle” is.
I ask because my gay/lesbian friends live livesindistinguishable from my own.
Their lives center of spouse and child rearing and work andpaying bills and watching television and mowing the lawn and complaining about gasprices. Exactly like my life



By "lifestyle" if you read my post correctly you'd see I am describing a lifestyle of unrepentant sin. As a Christian when you sin you are convicted in your heart and soul by the Holy Spirit. You confess your sin and seek forgiveness. When one commits and sin and ignores it and continues to live in it they are living a lifestyle of unrepentant sin.
But when you associate gays orany minority with murders and thieves and various other criminals you are bashing and belittling and putting downan those minorities




You are totally missing the point...if I have a tendency for whatever and I act on my desires of the flesh I AM sinning. Whether that be hetero homo bestiality whatever! As a heterosexual, if I give in to the 'feelings' of my flesh to have sex and not be in a marriage covenant with that individual I am committing a sin.

You've been taking what I am saying and applying a Non-Christian World View on it, no wonder it's not going to make any sense to you.
and you are missingmy point. You talk about having someonehaving a “tendency of homosexuality” Gays and lesbians don’t have a tendency of homosexuality any more thanyou have a tendency of heterosexuality
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#43
telling me that I don’t understand the thread because I respondedto a post which was tangentially off the thread topic is nasty and condescending.




Actually you are the one doing that when you complainedabout the fact I responded to an earlier post
And you continue to complain and make a big deal out of nothing. I'm done with you.
 
S

Shiloah

Guest
#44
............................ 100 percent sure it will happen. By the way Jim Henson was a sodomite, the man who plays Elmo is a sodomite.
I've never heard this, and you shouldn't be saying this when you don't know anything for sure. The Bible equates slander with murder, you know.
 
S

Shiloah

Guest
#45
What's sad is they actually had to make a public announcement years ago that the puppets have no sexuality and they're neither straight nor gay. They aren't going to marry Bert and Ernie but some ate convinced they are. Which is part of the reason I have problem with this. They're trying to make something innocent and sexualize it.
I've always believed corrupt people only see corruption everywhere they look. It's just that it's actually behind their eyes rather that before them. By the way, anyone who says they're a Christian and also believe homosexuality is fine, they have obviously overlooked these verses, or are just ignoring them.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

 
S

Shiloah

Guest
#46
Exactly. There areindividuals both gay and straight who have commitment issues. But those are a minority in each group. Leaving the original question just what hasthis to do with the topic.

.No one is suggesting that Christians are all saints. My point relates to the significant number ofGod’s laws that modern Christians en mass are happy to ignore.
This is the usual argument I see homosexuals make. That other people sin. Certainly adultery is sin, as is lying, stealing, worshipping idols, coveting your neighbors wife, etc. And so is homosexuality. Because other people sin doesn't make it okay for you to sin. That's what scriptures means when they say a sin is still a sin no matter how big or small.

And this translation error thing? Common. Either it says homosexuality is detestable or it doesn't. Comes in real handy pulling out that card when you want to ignore a scripture. If you want to call yourself a Christian, you have to do what Christ says. Those were His words. And it was He that basically wrote the Old Testament and the New.
 
Jul 2, 2013
178
0
0
#48
I've always believed corrupt people only see corruption everywhere they look. It's just that it's actually behind their eyes rather that before them. By the way, anyone who says they're a Christian and also believe homosexuality is fine, they have obviously overlooked these verses, or are just ignoring them.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
Leviticus also mandates animal sacrifice. The killing of anyone who blasphemes. The killing of ill-behavedchildren. Says that slavery isA-OKAY. It prohibits reading your dailyhoroscope, the eating of pork and shellfish. It denounces the wearing of mixed fabric clothing. It prohibits individuals with physical handicapsfrom attending church. And condemnsanyone who plants hybrids.

Or are we just ignoring these for now?


1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
The issue with this verse is the translation of the Greekword arsenokoites to meanhomosexual. There is absolutely nothingto support that translation. Throughhistory the word was translated to mean anything from kidnapping to masturbation. The fact is no one knows what the wordmeans. Many point out that it isunlikely to mean homosexual because there were Greek words for that when Paul wrote this.

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Paul is notoriously difficult to understand. Largely because most of his writings were inresponse to some other writing. So readingPaul can be like listening to one side of a telephone conversation. Weknow, (or think we know,) what Paul is saying, but we have to guess what theother side has said.

The bible itself points out this problem.
[SUP][/SUP]Bear in mind that ourLord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote youwith the wisdom that God gave him. [SUP] [/SUP]Hewrites the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. Hisletters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant andunstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their owndestruction. [SUP] [/SUP]Therefore, dear friends, since you have beenforewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the errorof the lawless and fall from your secure position.” 2 Peter 3:15-17


Breaking down what Paul was saying and looking at the translations we need tostart with the phrase “vile afflictions.”
In the original Greek, thephrase for “vile affliction” does not mean "passions" or "lust"rather it refers to the "frenziedstate of mind that many ancient mystery cults induced in worshipers by means ofwine, drugs and music." [SUB] [/SUB]It seems to describe the results ofrituals as performed in many Pagan settings at the time. Paul seems to bereferring here to Pagan fertility cult worship that was prevalent in Rome atthe time.

In a broader sense the meaning of “vile afflictions” refereesto ecstatic trance states described by anthropologists (Ref: Mircea Eliade).These ecstatic trances were part of pretty much every religion, such stateswere generally achieved by religious leaders but lay people could engage inthem as well, the process was to connect to the spirit world for healing andblessing. The Modern Christian version would be “speaking in tongues” and themeditative state achieved in ritualistic prayer. Originally the condemnationwas against any religion but the one Paul was founding, but like so many othernon-Christian traditions, ecstasy found their way into Christianity.



On to the word “natural” In the original Greek it is the word "phooskos", meaning"inborn", "produced by nature" , "agreeable to nature". It is referring directly to what is “natural”for the individual him/her self. Pleaseremember that the society Paul is writing to, both Roman and Greek, consideredhomosexuality be natural. What would have been considered unnatural for Paul’saudience would have been to force oneself to go against one’s own nature, topretend to be something one is not. Thisgoing against one’s nature in pursuit of a relationship is referred to as beingunnatural by many writers of the era.


On to the word “unnatural” or “againstnature.”

Paul specifically used the Greek word paraphysi here, which does notmean "to go against the law(s) of nature", that would be Ενάντια στο. Rather it means to engage in action(s) whichis uncharacteristic or against the nature of that person or more simply anindividual denying his/her true nature. An example of the word paraphysin is used in Romans 11:24,where God acts in an uncharacteristic (paraphysin)way to accept the Gentiles. To claim that paraphysi means unnatural wouldindicate that God was acting in an unnatural way. Which is impossible.

From the text, he is obviously writing about women with aheterosexual orientation, who had previously engaged in only heterosexual sex,who had "exchanged" theirnormal/inborn behaviors for same-sex activities. That is, they deviatedfrom their heterosexual orientation and engaged in sexual behavior with otherwomen. Similarly, he describes men with a heterosexual orientation who had"abandoned" their normal/inborn behaviors and engaged in same-sexactivities. In both cases, he is describing individuals with a heterosexualorientation, who were engaging in same-sex behavior -- in violation of theirnatural desires.

 
Jul 2, 2013
178
0
0
#49
This is the usual argument I see homosexuals make. That other people sin.
It’s nice to know I’m in good company but that isn’t the pointbeing made.

The point is not that everybody sins the point is thatthose judging gays and lesbians are very happy to ignore biblical laws rightnext to the verses they are using to condemn



And this translation error thing? Common. Either it says homosexuality is detestable or it doesn't. Comes in real handy pulling out that card when you want to ignore a scripture. If you want to call yourself a Christian, you have to do what Christ says. Those were His words. And it was He that basically wrote the Old Testament and the New.
And so do you. Youmight want to start by following what Jesus commanded in Matthew 7
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#50
I've always believed corrupt people only see corruption everywhere they look. It's just that it's actually behind their eyes rather that before them. By the way, anyone who says they're a Christian and also believe homosexuality is fine, they have obviously overlooked these verses, or are just ignoring them.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

I know what the scriptures say and I see people trying to argue those passages all the time. They twist scripture to fit how they live rather than living how scripture instructs is to. Then they call us hypocrites bc we don't approve.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#51
So now you're an expert on the Mosaic Law of the Old Covenant and the ancient Israelites. Nice to meet you Rabbi TracerBullet... lol.

Obviously, the Old Covenant was for a specific primitive population during a specific period of human history as a stepping stone toward something far greater the fact which you altogether omitted.

Your blatant omission that that it was superseded by a New Covenant God established in Jesus Christ toward reconciliation of all humanity is nonexistent as is any indication to put it into perspective within primitive human history. But then you're attempting to paint the God of the Bible as morally blighted which reveals both your colossal ignorance and purpose for being here.

According to Paul the "Law" was added because of "transgressions" to human history. As the NEB paraphrase suggests, God’s Law was used to "make wrongdoing a legal offense." In other words, it was given to reveal humanity's moral bankruptcy (and the seriousness therein) to prepare them for God's sweeping prophetic promise and New Covenant which was simultaneously given with the law (a point you deliberately omitted).

Even the way in which you mock the specific components of the Mosaic Law reveal you have no clue what was being communicated. Even the miscellaneous laws served a purpose. Take the "mixed fabric," as you call it, which is in reality stated in Leviticus 19:19 as follows, "...do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." Fabric mixtures in clothing were considered to be reserved for sacred use. Parallel passages make it clear these were for the tabernacle and in priest's outer garments reserved for sacred use and not common use. But you never addressed that nor why they were reserved for that purpose.

Now I'm no promoter of slavery and neither is the God of the Bible. He made allowance for divorce and slavery because the hardness of the heart of man who was exercising freewill to engage in the practice so He set some ground rules for it. First of all, you have grossly misrepresented what "slavery" in ancient Israel was by omission. Except for slaves taken in battle with pagan nations, Jewish slavery was almost always voluntary and usually initiated as a remedy for poverty. Were this situation like modern western slavery, we could justifiably condemn the practice but the reality is that this was of great benefit to the poor of the era.

Slavery contracts in ancient Israel emphasized that the slave agreed to work in exchange for economic security and personal protection. While modern western slaves were forbidden to own property of any kind, Hebrew slaves could take part in business, borrow money, and buy their own freedom. Yes, they were free to moonlight and buy out the contract they'd made, to own property, pay betrothal monies, and pay civic fines like any freeman. Slaves could appear in court as
witnesses, plaintiffs, and defendants on behalf of their friends and they could pay a "quitrent" to their owner if they needed time off to start a family, etc...

Furthermore, the Old Testament forbids the cruel treatment of slaves practiced by the pagan nations surrounding ancient Israel while affording them legal protections AND they were all set free every Jubilee with their entire debt remitted giving them a clean start! You completely omitted that important point, of course. Only in Israel, under the Mosaic Law, did that occur in the ancient world.

And yes God set standards as to who could be a priest and what condition sacrifices should be presented as sin offerings but you completely failed to point out the disabled approaching Jesus in the temple (21:14). Jewish teachers did not require blind or lame people to make the journey to the temple (m. Hagiga 1:1), and at least some traditions excluded them from the temple (2 Sam 5:8 LXX) but Jesus was reforming the overreach of the religiosity and the way they conducted temple affairs.

The Jewish Sibylline Oracle 2:73 contains the prohibition me arsenokoitein which translates as "do not practice homosexuality" with the Levitical associations of arsenokoitēs confirming the context. Biblical scholars have already weighed in: Does the Greek word arsenokoitēs refer to homosexuals? | Christian Studies You apparently didn't get the memo and are so simply making a false assertion (something you do an awful lot of).

Paul isn't difficult to understand if you have a good grasp of the languages he wrote in, history and the cultures of the period, and systematic understanding of ancient texts and the Bible as a whole. 2 Peter 3:15-17 was referring to apostates which had begun to syncrete Christianity with paganism to their spiritual ruin not what you are asserting.

Which isn't surprising given your next false assertion that Paul is condoning homosexuality as a natural. Paul was an orthodox Jewish Rabbi who well understood Leviticus 18:22 proscribing the act of a male lying with another male as an "abomination" or "detestable thing" with the Hebrew word coming from the root "to abhor" and the image emphasizing both ritually and ethically God’s call to reject such behaviors.

Paul and other early Christian writers inherited the strong critique of homosexuality common in Hellenistic Judaism (something you appear to be clueless about). Jewish writers such as Philo and Josephus stressed the homosexual aspect of the Sodomites’ gang rape (Gen 19:5) and, especially under Stoic influence, condemned same-sex intercourse as contrary to nature.

The words most frequently translated ‘nature’, ‘natural’, are physis and physikos. The precise meaning of physis, physikos, is often determined by that with which physis is contrasted. Thus it may be regarded as characteristic of brute beasts as opposed to humanity (2 Pet. 2:12; Jude 10) or to be contrasted with that which is commonly but falsely believed (Gal. 4:8, Moffatt—‘gods who are really’, physei, ‘no gods at all’; cf. 1 Cor. 8:5) but of special importance are the Pauline uses of physis in contrast with the perversions of Gentile society and the free grace of God in Christ and its consequences in man’s life.

The former use is found in Rom. 1:26–27 in which sexual perversion is there viewed as a departure from the norm recognized by ‘natural’ man which shows how badly you've misrepresented Greek word usage in Pauline letters here today.
 
Last edited:
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#52
Of course they do. The Bible does not condone a "lifestyle" of "homosexuality," as they would have you believe but rather speaks directly to "homosexual behavior" or "homosexual acts." Homosexuality as an "identity" is a modern non-biblical construction. Paul was clear about what he meant by "natural." Homosexuals abandon natural functions:

"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another..." (1:26-27)

The Greek word kreesis, translated "function" in this text, is used only these two times in the New Testament, but is found frequently in other literature of the time. A Greek/English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature explains the word meaning: "use, relations, function, especially of sexual intercourse."

Paul is not talking about natural desires here, but natural functions. He is not talking about what one wants sexually, but how one is built to operate sexually.

This conclusion becomes unmistakable when one notes what men abandon in verse 27.

They want you to believe the text teaches that men abandoned their own natural desire for woman and burned toward one another. Men whose natural desire was for other men would then be exempted from Paul's condemnation. Paul says nothing of the kind, though.

Paul says men forsake not their own natural desire but rather the "natural function of the woman." They abandoned the female, who was built by God to be man's sexual compliment.

The error has nothing to do with anything in the male's own constitution that he's denying. It is in the rejection of the proper sexual companion God has made for him (e.g. a woman):

"The men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts..." (v. 27)

Now natural desires go with natural functions. The passion that exchanges the natural function of sex between a man and a woman for the unnatural function of sex between a man and a man is what Paul calls a degrading passion.

Jesus clarified the natural, normal relationship: "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said 'For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife and the two shall become one flesh [sexual intercourse]'?" (Matthew 19:4-5)

Homosexual desire is unnatural because it causes a man to abandon the natural sexual compliment God has ordained for him: a woman. That was Paul's view and that's what he wrote. If it was Paul's view recorded in the inspired text, then it is God's view. And if it is God's view, it should be ours if we call ourselves Christian.

Since God is in you Elizabeth, automatically sense the truth and know they are lying. But us educated know they are lying simply by their misuse of the Greek language and colossal ignorance of the history, culture, and literature of the period.


I know what the scriptures say and I see people trying to argue those passages all the time. They twist scripture to fit how they live rather than living how scripture instructs is to. Then they call us hypocrites bc we don't approve.
 
Jul 2, 2013
178
0
0
#53
Now I'm no promoter of slavery and neither is the God of the Bible. He made allowance for divorce and slavery because the hardness of the heart of man who was exercising freewill to engage in the practice so He set some ground rules for it. First of all, you have grossly misrepresented what "slavery" in ancient Israel was by omission. Except for slaves taken in battle with pagan nations, Jewish slavery was almost always voluntary and usually initiated as a remedy for poverty. Were this situation like modern western slavery, we could justifiably condemn the practice but the reality is that this was of great benefit to the poor of the era.

Slavery contracts in ancient Israel emphasized that the slave agreed to work in exchange for economic security and personal protection. While modern western slaves were forbidden to own property of any kind, Hebrew slaves could take part in business, borrow money, and buy their own freedom. Yes, they were free to moonlight and buy out the contract they'd made, to own property, pay betrothal monies, and pay civic fines like any freeman. Slaves could appear in court as
witnesses, plaintiffs, and defendants on behalf of their friends and they could pay a "quitrent" to their owner if they needed time off to start a family, etc...
You may purchasemale or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. Youmay also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those whohave been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passingthem on to your children as a permanent inheritance. Leviticus 25:44-45

If you buy a Hebrewslave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventhyear, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single whenhe became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in theseventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then hiswife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was aslave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventhyear, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But theslave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. Iwould rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present himbefore God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly piercehis ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his masterforever. Exodus 21:2-6

When a man sellshis daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as themen are. Exodus 21:7


Furthermore, the Old Testament forbids the cruel treatment of slaves practiced by the pagan nations surrounding ancient Israel while affording them legal protections AND they were all set free every Jubilee with their entire debt remitted giving them a clean start! You completely omitted that important point, of course. Only in Israel, under the Mosaic Law, did that occur in the ancient world.
When a man strikeshis male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand,he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two,he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. Exodus21:20-21
 
Jul 2, 2013
178
0
0
#54
The Jewish Sibylline Oracle 2:73 contains the prohibition me arsenokoitein which translates as "do not practice homosexuality" with the Levitical associations of arsenokoitēs confirming the context. Biblical scholars have already weighed in: Does the Greek word arsenokoitēs refer to homosexuals? | Christian Studies You apparently didn't get the memo and are so simply making a false assertion (something you do an awful lot of).
Whichdoesn’t hold up when you look at what is actually written there: "kai meta arsenos ou koimêthêsê koitên gynaikosbdelygma gar estin"

Broken down:

The greek "Kai" is "and",and "meta" is roughly "with".

"arsenos" means "male" (asopposed to "man" ["andros"]). An interesting choice ofwording to say the least In Hebrew"human"/"teracotta"(colour) is "adama". And manis "ish"/"esh"; "ishah" is "woman". Butthe word translated as "man" in leviticus18:22 is actually"zakar", which is a very different word entirely. "zakar"elsewhere is only used to refer to men who are somehow sanctified.

"koimethese" roughly means "the same as".


"koite gynaikos" "specificallymeans a woman’s bed. Idiomatically it refers to "wife", as in"my woman" therefore "koite gynaikos" translates to ‘thewife’s bed’.

"bdelygma", which only means"ritually impure". Not to be confused with "to'evah"("To'ebah") the word normally translated as abomination. But"to'ebah" doesn't mean sin, and is nowhere as strong as "abomination";"zimah" means sin, and would have been used if a word was meant.

"bdelygma", which only means"ritually impure".

“gar estin” this is the law (roughly)


This is saying nothing abouthomosexuality rather it is condemning adultery, specifically adultery where oneof the participants is a sanctified man and then only when the adultery is committedduring the time he is sanctified. Notice there is no prohibition of thesanctified man having intercourse with his wife or wives or even hisconcubines, rather it is about bringing another woman into the marriage bedduring the time he is sanctified, a woman that is not his and that he cannot bemarried to.
Even then the condemnation isn’t that strong,such an act just makes the man loose his sanctification and as such must gothrough a ritual cleansing.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#55
It holds up fine as the many language scholars over the years involved with Bible translation attest. It's your faulty understanding that results in your constant stream of false assertions.

Jewish scribes translated their Scriptures from Hebrew to Greek (e.g. Septuagint). Septuagint and the Greek word arsenokoites used in Lev 18:22 (Septuaginta) read like this:

kai meta arsenos ou koimeeteesee koiten gynaikos bdelugma gar estin

Lev 20:13 (Septuaginta) like this:

kai os an koimeetee meta arsenos koiten gynaikos bdelugma epoieesan amphoteroi thanatousthoosan enokhoi eisin

Arsenos means male and koiten means bed. Lev 18:22 and 20:13 teach that a man cannot lie (sexual act) with another man as he lies with a woman.

Strong's Greek: 733. ἀρσενοκοίτης (arsenokoites) -- a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity

Lev 18:22 and 20:13 prove very clearly that arsenos koiten means homosexuality sex, because the Jews scribes translated words' arsenos koiten to describe men who have sex with another men (homosexuality), which is a sin and against the will of God.

The Rabbi and apostle Paul didn't make up the word arsenokoites, it was already defined in the Greek translation of the Old Testament where it clearly means homosexuality.

It is very clear that the words' arsenos koiten meant homosexuality (man who had sex with another man) to Jews of the Old Covenant era. In the same way arsenokoites meant homosexuality (man who had sex with another man) to Jesus' disciples in the New Covenant era.

Arsenokoites meant exactly what Jewish Septuagint translators meant, in other words, it means homosexuality and practicing of homosexuality, which is a sin according to the word of God (Bible).

1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate (malakos), nor abusers of themselves with mankind (arsenokoites)...

The word effeminate is in Greek malakos, which means soft, effeminate, of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man, of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness, of a male prostitute. According to the word of God (Bible) homosexual act between a boy and a man is a sin, and male prostitution is also a sin.

Abusers with mankind is in Greek arsenokoiteen - arsenokoites, which means homosexual. This comes out also very clear from Septuagint as we have seen it before. Arsenokoites derives from words arrhen and koite. Arrhen means a male, and koite means a bed. The Bible brings up also in the New Covenant that homosexuality is wrong and a sin. The Bible brings up also very clearly that homosexual is a sin that is obstruction of salvation. Apostle Paul taught that homosexual is a sin
as we can see clearly from 1 Cor 6:9-11.

1 Cor 6:9-11 show for us also that in Corinth, some disciples had been homosexuals, but weren't anymore, because they were sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Bible also proves in 1 Cor 6:9-12 that homosexually oriented males can change and forsake homosexual identity for heterosexual with the help of Lord Jesus. So it's no surprise in the church we find testimonies of many ex-gays who have received salvation in the Lord Jesus, and forsaken homosexuality and turned to heterosexual persons which in itself is an indirect evidence.

Etc...

You're comments are so far removed from reality as to be laughable. And yes I did laugh when you tried to ascribe adultery to Jewish Sibylline Oracle 2:73 which scholars published means homosexuality except for E. P. Sanders who called it "buggery" as in meta arsenos koiten 'he who has coitus with a male' because he's from Britain ;).

You should stop distorting God's Word to "prove" homosexual acts are God's "natural" design for humanity according to God's Word. You're just making a fool out of yourself to the educated and potentially misleading weak minds away into your error.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#56
I personally find this really low down. I don't care if you are for or against the Supreme Court ruling using childrens characters to "celebrate" an issue like this is down right perverted.
"We shall sodomize your sons, emblems of your feeble masculinity, of your shallow dreams and vulgar lies. We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your sports arenas, in your seminaries, in your youth groups, ...wherever men are with men together. Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will be recast in our image. They will come to crave and adore us. All churches who condemn us will be closed. Our holy gods are handsome young men." by Michael Swift published in the Boston Gay Community News edition February 15-21, 1987.
 
Jul 2, 2013
178
0
0
#57
It holds up fine as the many language scholars over the years involved with Bible translation attest.
By the same token the biblical Exegesis supporting slavery andracism held up fine for generations of biblical scholars.
 
Jul 2, 2013
178
0
0
#58
"We shall sodomize your sons, emblems of your feeble masculinity, of your shallow dreams and vulgar lies. We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your sports arenas, in your seminaries, in your youth groups, ...wherever men are with men together. Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will be recast in our image. They will come to crave and adore us. All churches who condemn us will be closed. Our holy gods are handsome young men." by Michael Swift published in the Boston Gay Community News edition February 15-21, 1987.
Speaking of presenting false assertions.

The essay by Michael Swift is clearly labeled as a piece ofsatire. He is making fun of theanti-homosexual claims so many Christians.

The first sentence. Theone you didn’t bother to include. Reads: "This essay is an outré, madness, a tragic, cruel fantasy, an eruptionof inner rage, on how the oppressed desperately dream of being the oppressor."[SUP][[/SUP]
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#59
Yes I know the homosexual community asserts it's satire as do you. But I remember when homosexual activists belonging to organizations like Act Up were throwing their body fluids through the open windows of families in traffic back in the 1980's when that was written. I remember when such comments weren't satirical at all but rather aligned perfectly with the actions of homosexual activists. But you were just a kid then. Probably not even yet dreaming of distorting God's Word so badly to push the homosexual agenda.


Speaking of presenting false assertions.

The essay by Michael Swift is clearly labeled as a piece ofsatire. He is making fun of theanti-homosexual claims so many Christians.

The first sentence. Theone you didn’t bother to include. Reads: "This essay is an outré, madness, a tragic, cruel fantasy, an eruptionof inner rage, on how the oppressed desperately dream of being the oppressor."[SUP][[/SUP]
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#60
You mean exactly like you do with homosexuality. Yes there were some, unfortunately who fell into that error for a time. But the genuine Christian scholars at the top universities were united in a proper exegesis regarding slavery and racism exactly as their predecessors had been all the way back to the Christ and the apostles themselves.

Historically, there's always people like you pushing heresy. Christ will put an end to it upon His return.


By the same token the biblical Exegesis supporting slavery andracism held up fine for generations of biblical scholars.