A.D.D. CHILD HANDCUFFED !!!

[Braylay]

I watched the video, i didn't see anything wrong with any of that. As a child and adult who has both ADHD and PTSD (because if you read the article it also states the boy had both of those also) I was very aggressive and destructive towards myself and others as a kid. Especially to anyone who was in a position of authority.
One of my brothers also has both of these things and had to be routinely handcuffed and taken out of school as a child because of his behavior.

Ken, it's commendable you've dealt with children with different types of mental disorders, but all children with ADHD/PTSD are not the same. They all have different triggers, different things that will put them from 0 to 100 in a matter of seconds. You have no idea what either child was doing before this video was taken. You have no idea how long they were in handcuffs. You're only hearing one side of this story. Could this have been handled differently, maybe, but putting him in handcuffs did not harm him in any way. If anything it got him to do exactly what they were telling him to, which was sit down.

There are consequences to our behavior, and learning that as a kid is very important, we need to help them recognize and learn that there are rules in place that will protect you and others around you. You cannot act any way you want and disobey whoever you want and expect nothing to happen.

Anyway, that's just my two cents

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

I missed the part about him having been diagnosed with PTSD. That means any approach to him solely on the basis of being ADHD would be a useless endeavor. If he was having a flashback of abuse, for example, his outburst was self-preservatory, and understandable.

Still, the officer had to protect himself and those others present. And I still wasn't there, but from the limited scope of the video I lean toward being in agreement with Braylay, nothing on the surface wrong with this approach, based on what I see in the video alongside the PTSD diagnosis.

 

[Billyd]

Is it really 100% clear?

Also, since you mentioned that you have experience, how exactly did you subdue kids who displayed rage, or swung out at you or others?

I have been involved with several excessive force investigations at a large mental health facility. Until you examine everything involved, it is impossible to state that the allegation is true or false. The average time to review one of these cases is about 30 days. Since most of them involve patient privacy, the results are rarely released to the public unless they are referred for prosecution.

Subduing these kids can be as easy as isolation, and as extreme as restraint. Restraint is always used as a last resort, usually to prevent self injury, and rarely involves police style handcuffs. They are removed as soon as aggressive behavior subsides. The only time that I have seen them used at this age was to place the child under arrest and transport him to Juvi. This was a 8 year old who had cut a 7 year old. As you can see, it is not always as cut and dried as Ken wants to make it. Wait for the investigation to be completed. I assure you that those who conduct them won't leave a leaf unturned. A child's future and at least one person's career are involved.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I wasn't there.

Neither was I.

You don't need to be there, to see that the cop handcuffed the boy, who WAS NOT resisting or fighting in any way. This particular clip shows the boy sobbing, saying he's sorry, and saying that the handcuffs hurt him. I heard no swear words from that child yet the cop says "you don't need to swear at me like that."

IMO, cops think that just because they wear a badge and carry a gun, that they can abuse the law and make up their own rules. There was absolutely NO NEED to handcuff this child whatsoever.

 

[KennethC]

Untrue. Officers are instructed to restrain reasonably anyone who is emotionally or violently out of control, and if that requires handcuffs, rather than rendering incapacitated, it is a preferred method of restraint. You claim to know about restraining mentally ill children, but it appears you know nothing about police protocol, and therefore probably should not be commenting on whether the officer followed it or not.

That is not untrue as they talked to them about their policy in that department, and they sad no that they are not allowed to restrain children with handcuffs unless they are a threat to another. His own police department that the officer belongs to said this, that it was against their policy for him to do this.

Until the officer gets the child under control, he has no way of knowing that.

Typically (and please remember I'm a licensed counselor who knows these things) preadolescents with true ADD or ADHD do not have violent outbursts. This is obviously more than ADD. It is probably severe Oppositional-Defiant Disorder, and it can get dangerous for any authority figure, particularly a uniformed officer.

... giving the kid an opportunity to go for the gun you pointed out he didn't have. He's shorter and more agile than the typical adult an officer would deal with in the line of duty. It doesn't make sense for the officer to put himself in direct contact with a child acting with extreme anger and violence if he doesn't have to do so. Putting the cuffs on him was perhaps the best answer.

But again, I don't know because I wasn't there, and neither were you.

Whatever VW as this was a child just having a normal A.D.D. fit in a classroom, in other words a temper tantrum.

You are completely wrong if you don't think A.D.D., ADHD, or autistic kids do not have outburst like this.
I have taken care of these style kids in my life and it was common for them to have outbursts frequently to where they get angry and use physical attacks.

I had two at one time one being ADHD and the other Autistic, and they constantly butted heads with each other and got into fights with one another. One time it even went as far as the ADHD grabbing a knife to use on the others property, and him to if he got in the way. I had to restrain him before it got worse, so please do not try and say it is not common to have these outbursts because I personally have dealt with them.

The officer would have had to have him already subdued in order to get the cuffs on him, as the video shows.
The officer did put himself in direct contact with this child who was just having an outburst that is common to his disorder, and thus is why the family is suing because the officer went beyond his training and used force unnecessary for the situation.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

You don't need to be there ...

Yeah, you do, or you don't have enough information.

... I heard no swear words from that child yet the cop says "you don't need to swear at me like that."

Did it occur to you he said them before the video starts? Selective posting by the media outlet.

IMO, cops think that just because they wear a badge and carry a gun, that they can abuse the law and make up their own rules. There was absolutely NO NEED to handcuff this child whatsoever.

Yes, Blue, we know all about your prejudice, bias, even bigotry toward police officers. You express it early and often on this board. That doesn't change the facts, whatever they might be, or that your opinion is no more based on factual observation than mine or Ken's is. You don't know whether he needed to handcuff the kid or not, and you probably never will, because the media will forget about this story in the next 15-minute news cycle.

 

[KennethC]

Untrue. Officers are instructed to restrain reasonably anyone who is emotionally or violently out of control, and if that requires handcuffs, rather than rendering incapacitated, it is a preferred method of restraint. You claim to know about restraining mentally ill children, but it appears you know nothing about police protocol, and therefore probably should not be commenting on whether the officer followed it or not.

Until the officer gets the child under control, he has no way of knowing that.

Typically (and please remember I'm a licensed counselor who knows these things) preadolescents with true ADD or ADHD do not have violent outbursts. This is obviously more than ADD. It is probably severe Oppositional-Defiant Disorder, and it can get dangerous for any authority figure, particularly a uniformed officer.

... giving the kid an opportunity to go for the gun you pointed out he didn't have. He's shorter and more agile than the typical adult an officer would deal with in the line of duty. It doesn't make sense for the officer to put himself in direct contact with a child acting with extreme anger and violence if he doesn't have to do so. Putting the cuffs on him was perhaps the best answer.

But again, I don't know because I wasn't there, and neither were you.

You don't need to be there, to see that the cop handcuffed the boy, who WAS NOT resisting or fighting in any way. This particular clip shows the boy sobbing, saying he's sorry, and saying that the handcuffs hurt him. I heard no swear words from that child yet the cop says "you don't need to swear at me like that."

IMO, cops think that just because they wear a badge and carry a gun, that they can abuse the law and make up their own rules. There was absolutely NO NEED to handcuff this child whatsoever.

Thank you as it seems some people no matter what will always defend the police officer, even though there is so many cases of misuse of force and wrongful arrests that take place in this world. Police officers are just as prone as being evil and sinful as any other person.

I see at least 2 to 3 cases every year any more of people being released from prisons from wrongful incarceration, and that is just the few that get brought to light.

The video clearly shows no fighting back from this child that I am accustomed to seeing in these fits, and therefore was no need for the officer to go as far as he did with the handcuffs. Plus like I said the police officers own department said handcuffing a child is not policy unless they are at dangerous threat to others.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Thank you as it seems some people no matter what will always defend the police officer, even though there is so many cases of misuse of force and wrongful arrests that take place in this world. Police officers are just as prone as being evil and sinful as any other person.

Of course they can. But you and Blue want to paint all cops with the same brush, blithely ignoring the fact that, just as with most people, all are lost, but most are better than others.

You guys need to start a cop-haters club. Or you could just join #BlackLivesMatter. They already have your agenda laid out for you.

 

[Braylay]

That is not untrue as they talked to them about their policy in that department, and they sad no that they are not allowed to restrain children with handcuffs unless they are a threat to another. His own police department that the officer belongs to said this, that it was against their policy for him to do this.






Whatever VW as this was a child just having a normal A.D.D. fit in a classroom, in other words a temper tantrum.

You are completely wrong if you don't think A.D.D., ADHD, or autistic kids do not have outburst like this.
I have taken care of these style kids in my life and it was common for them to have outbursts frequently to where they get angry and use physical attacks.

I had two at one time one being ADHD and the other Autistic, and they constantly butted heads with each other and got into fights with one another. One time it even went as far as the ADHD grabbing a knife to use on the others property, and him to if he got in the way. I had to restrain him before it got worse, so please do not try and say it is not common to have these outbursts because I personally have dealt with them.

The officer would have had to have him already subdued in order to get the cuffs on him, as the video shows.
The officer did put himself in direct contact with this child who was just having an outburst that is common to his disorder, and thus is why the family is suing because the officer went beyond his training and used force unnecessary for the situation.

It is not common for a child with ADD or ADHD to have physically violent outbursts.

 

[KennethC]

Of course they can. But you and Blue want to paint all cops with the same brush, blithely ignoring the fact that, just as with most people, all are lost, but most are better than others.

You guys need to start a cop-haters club. Or you could just join #BlackLivesMatter. They already have your agenda laid out for you.

Well you are wrong with your false allegations as usual, because I do not paint all cops as bad.

I know there are good cops out there as well, but just because there are good ones I am not going to defend one who has clearly misused force in a instance. I am sorry but if they misuse their power I am going to call them out on it and not let them get away with it.

We should not let misuse of force slide or get swept under the rug just because some others are good and do their jobs properly. That would plain be irresponsible !!!

 

[Willie-T]

You watched 27 SECONDS. You weren't there, and didn't see ANYTHING else that preceded that less than a half a minute of video. Did you ever stop to think there is a definite agenda to only showing those 27 SECONDS.

And I have seldom seen or heard a more calm and gentle officer than that man was... constantly explaining to the boy why he was getting what he was getting. Very calm and gentle. Even the cuffs that were placed on the boy's upper arms were placed there slowly, carefully, and gently... listen to the clicks.

 

[KennethC]

It is not common for a child with ADD or ADHD to have physically violent outbursts.

You do realize you are talking to a person who has taken care of these kids ???

Do not tell me something is not common when I personally have handled these situations !!!

 

[Braylay]

You do realize you are talking to a person who has taken care of these kids ???

Do not tell me something is not common when I personally have handled these situations !!!

And do you realize you're talking to a person who has two children with ADHD who have never had one violent physical outburst.... ever.

And as i said, i have it myself.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I wasn't there.

Yeah, you do, or you don't have enough information.

Did it occur to you he said them before the video starts? Selective posting by the media outlet.

Yes, Blue, we know all about your prejudice, bias, even bigotry toward police officers. You express it early and often on this board. That doesn't change the facts, whatever they might be, or that your opinion is no more based on factual observation than mine or Ken's is. You don't know whether he needed to handcuff the kid or not, and you probably never will, because the media will forget about this story in the next 15-minute news cycle.

I know VW, but from the clip presented here, I see a scared, sobbing child in cuffs saying he's sorry. Regardless of what happened beforehand. And yes, obviously it did occur to me that the altercation took place BEFORE.
I don't have any prejudice, bias OR bigotry towards cops. One of my friends is a cop. BUT as we all know, cops are corrupt and take the law into their own hands much of the time. Even YOU have to admit that, VW..

 

[blue_ladybug]

You watched 27 SECONDS. You weren't there, and didn't see ANYTHING else that preceded that less than a half a minute of video. Did you ever stop to think there is a definite agenda to only showing those 27 SECONDS.

And I have seldom seen or heard a more calm and gentle officer than that man was... constantly explaining to the boy why he was getting what he was getting. Very calm and gentle. Even the cuffs that were placed on the boy's upper arms were placed there slowly, carefully, and gently... listen to the clicks.

You musta seen a different video than I did then. The one I saw, all the cop kept saying was "Sit down" and "You dont have to swear at me like that." He did NOT explain why he was cuffing the kid.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

BUT as we all know, cops are corrupt and take the law into their own hands much of the time. Even YOU have to admit that, VW..

We don't "all know" that, and no, I don't "admit" to that because it isn't true. Just as with all people, some cops are bad, but by far the vast majority are honest, upright, and moral. If you think otherwise, then yes, you're bigoted against police officers.

 

[Braylay]

Kenneth...you cannot take your experiences with one group of children or even two or three groups of children and say that all children are like this, or it's ''common'' because once upon a time you took care of kids who acted out in this way.

This subject is very close to me because ADHD and Autism run very heavily in my family. As well as an array of other mental illness's. I have 5 siblings who all have kids, and every single one of their kids are either autistic or have ADHD. There 12 in total, and out of all of them, one of them has a problem with physical outbursts. One of my brothers has 4 kids who are all autistic, none of whom display this behavior that you think is so common. This is not including my aunts, cousins, and even one of my parents who have either of these two, and none of them, and i can say that safely none of them because i grew up living in the houses with them, has ever had a problem with what you're describing.

Now don't get me wrong, i believe you took care of kids who were like this, but to say it's common is a huge stretch.

It's not good to spread misinformation about Autism and ADHD or any other mental disorder/illness. And that's what you're doing. I live that life everyday with myself and my two kids who have ADHD. All three of us put together can't figure out where we've put anything

Anyway, that's all i have to say.

 

[blue_ladybug]

We don't "all know" that, and no, I don't "admit" to that because it isn't true. Just as with all people, some cops are bad, but by far the vast majority are honest, upright, and moral. If you think otherwise, then yes, you're bigoted against police officers.

Im sure some ARE honest, upright and moral. But alot of others are not. You see and hear it on the news, radio and tv every day. And no, once again, in case your eyesight is failing you, I am not bigoted against the po-po.. I just think there are several corrupt ones, that's all.

 

[Agricola]

I am fed up with all this liberal do-gooder wishy washy political correct nonsense which has resulted in a disrespectful lack of discipline, ambulance chasing and "I can see the dollar signs because you hurt my feelings" society.

When I was at school, we had a mentally disabled kid in our class, I was only about 7 at the time, one day he went absolutly berserk, smashed up displays and class projects, turned over tables threw chairs at the teacher.

She went off to get headmistress, who tried to calm him down and stop him, but he threw other things at them, then finally threw punches, finally they managed to get hold of him, then had to ask girls if they had skipping ropes, they tied him up with a couple of those. He was finally removed from the class and we never saw him again.

In this day and age all the teachers could have done was called the police and I guess a police officer would have handcuffed him.

Its bad enough all the fake moral outrage at a death of a lion, this is just as bad.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Im sure some ARE honest, upright and moral. But alot of others are not.

Far more are honest, upright and moral -- far more -- than are not. Your reference to "some" being honest rather than admitting that most, the vast majority, are honest tells me I'm not wrong about your bias.

You see and hear it on the news, radio and tv every day.

You see and hear it on the news everyday because it isn't news to report that an officer went through an eight- or ten-hour shift and did exactly what he was supposed to do.

Which is what 99.99999999% of them do.

And no, once again, in case your eyesight is failing you, I am not bigoted against the po-po.

Your use of the ghetto-language "po-po" belies your protest. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...