Chritian church Closes after its leader identified as a Paedophile ring leader.

[RachelBibleStudent]

Well I tried and it seems I've failed. Your defensive and your position is focussed on protecting the name of the church. I really don't care and nor does the raped girl whether he was truly born again then fell from Grace - or whether he never was...or..WE JUST DONT CARE. The issue is he was hiding in the ranks of good Christians and whats more leading them. That was the point and I think you know it but it seems the issue your focussing on isn't the women who suffer but protecting the image of the church..... which btw I don't have a problem with - why should everyone be tarnished by the action of the evil - but u do it in such a way as to hide the dirty linen - its exactly what the churches here have been doing, but an Australian Royal Commission is now showing just how ugly and destructive that attitude has been.

i do agree that we should not pretend like this kind of stuff does not go on inside churches in some kind of attempt at trying to protect the church from having its reputation tarnished...

but at the same time i have lately been getting totally sick and tired of the way pretty much anyone these days can claim to be a christian and thereby get an almost endless stream of sympathy and defense from christians who should know better...it is way past time that we stand up and say that these freaks are -not- our brothers and sisters...

 

[Willie-T]

i do agree that we should not pretend like this kind of stuff does not go on inside churches in some kind of attempt at trying to protect the church from having its reputation tarnished...

but at the same time i have lately been getting totally sick and tired of the way pretty much anyone these days can claim to be a christian and thereby get an almost endless stream of sympathy and defense from christians who should know better...it is way past time that we stand up and say that these freaks are -not- our brothers and sisters...

But we have that pesky problem to deal with... that Jesus says they are.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

But we have that pesky problem to deal with... that Jesus says they are.

no he doesn't...jesus says not everyone who says 'lord lord' belongs to the kingdom of heaven...

 

[zoii]

I know you mean well, but this is part of what I was talking about. You (and millions of other well-meaning citizens) haven't the slightest idea what you are actually dealing with. And our politicians know this, and feed it, using the fear to build voting platforms upon.

I know enough what its like to be a victim though Willie. I know all about the result for the one's that matter most.

 

[Willie-T]

I know enough what its like to be a victim though Willie. I know all about the result for the one's that matter most.

It wasn't a slam, or a put-down. I am just saying that the knee-jerk reaction of most people is counter productive to protecting our children. And those people can't help it. They have been told "This, or that, is the answer." When it is really the opposite of what needs to be done.

 

[Willie-T]

no he doesn't...jesus says not everyone who says 'lord lord' belongs to the kingdom of heaven...

I missed the part where He gave you the power and authority (or even the wisdom) to decide what is in their hearts.

Until He, Himself, does that judging, He told us to love those who are in the church...... AND even our enemies.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

I missed the part where He gave you the power and authority (or even the wisdom) to decide what is in their hearts. Until He, Himself, does that judging, He told us to love those who are in the church...... AND even our enemies.

jesus says we can know them by their fruits...being a child molester just might be a really obviously bad fruit...it is the wolves that harm the little lambs... and yes we are supposed to love our enemies...but we are -not- commanded to call the wolves in our churches brothers and sisters... we need to stop pretending that people become christians as far as we are concerned just by calling themselves christian...

 

[Willie-T]

jesus says we can know them by their fruits...being a child molester just might be a really obviously bad fruit...it is the wolves that harm the little lambs... and yes we are supposed to love our enemies...but we are -not- commanded to call the wolves in our churches brothers and sisters... we need to stop pretending that people become christians as far as we are concerned just by calling themselves christian...

Ok. What's your qualifier?

 

[crossnote]

I missed the part where He gave you the power and authority (or even the wisdom) to decide what is in their hearts.

Until He, Himself, does that judging, He told us to love those who are in the church...... AND even our enemies.

No one is saying the judging is left to one person...

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
(1Co 5:1-5)

 

[pwrnJC]

zoii....nobody is agreeing with what this so called 'pastor" has done..far from it. The point is..there are plenty of wolves in sheeps clothing everywhere...CHURCHES, Private Christian schools, seminaries...police departments..YMCA's, GIRL SCOUTS, day care centers....sexual impurities are everywhere on the planet..all businesses, etc. We live in a fallen world..despite man's best attempts. ONly when JESUS returns will we be raptured away from all of this depravity. So, for the rest of your life, are you going to post, march, protest, write and be actively against explotation of just females who go to church, or will you broaden your horizons and realize that all sin is in all places...so the best thing to combat it is to become an on-fire holy spirit filled CHRISTIAN, sharing ,caring, nurturing, teaching, training ALL peoples about JESUS CHRIST...their only hope. Otherwise, you might as well go "EENY MEENY MINEY MOE" and pick abused animals, or abortion, or Elderly abuse, or human slave traders, or prostitutes, or, or or....take your pick..all is sin..all is demonic, all is known to exist, but CHRIST is the ultimate answer to all of life's SIN..for HE conquered it!, forgives it...changes it for HIS glory, and helps us to deal with it within ourselves.

 

[zoii]

zoii....nobody is agreeing with what this so called 'pastor" has done..far from it. The point is..there are plenty of wolves in sheeps clothing everywhere...CHURCHES, Private Christian schools, seminaries...police departments..YMCA's, GIRL SCOUTS, day care centers....sexual impurities are everywhere on the planet..all businesses, etc. We live in a fallen world..despite man's best attempts. ONly when JESUS returns will we be raptured away from all of this depravity. So, for the rest of your life, are you going to post, march, protest, write and be actively against explotation of just females who go to church, or will you broaden your horizons and realize that all sin is in all places...so the best thing to combat it is to become an on-fire holy spirit filled CHRISTIAN, sharing ,caring, nurturing, teaching, training ALL peoples about JESUS CHRIST...their only hope. Otherwise, you might as well go "EENY MEENY MINEY MOE" and pick abused animals, or abortion, or Elderly abuse, or human slave traders, or prostitutes, or, or or....take your pick..all is sin..all is demonic, all is known to exist, but CHRIST is the ultimate answer to all of life's SIN..for HE conquered it!, forgives it...changes it for HIS glory, and helps us to deal with it within ourselves.

Hi pwrnJC. I know its embedded in every level of society - I've tried to make that very point. As for what I'm going to do personally - I really don't know. I do feel like I want to have a career in protecting vulnerable women and I've been thinking that maybe my best way is to be a lawyer and focus on the rights of women who suffer. You're right there's a spectrum of issues I could write about but I'm just 15 and I am writing on things I feel intensely about. It cuts at my heart when I read about young girls hurt and it cuts at my heart to see the violence against women. So for now thats probably what I will comment on most. As for my spiritiual journey ... well thats a path I talk about in more private conversations but I do take your point.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Hi pwrnJC. I know its embedded in every level of society - I've tried to make that very point. As for what I'm going to do personally - I really don't know. I do feel like I want to have a career in protecting vulnerable women and I've been thinking that maybe my best way is to be a lawyer and focus on the rights of women who suffer. You're right there's a spectrum of issues I could write about but I'm just 15 and I am writing on things I feel intensely about. It cuts at my heart when I read about young girls hurt and it cuts at my heart to see the violence against women. So for now thats probably what I will comment on most. As for my spiritiual journey ... well thats a path I talk about in more private conversations but I do take your point.

A social worker is also somebody protecting young women and men Zoii. Maybe you should look into that as well

 

[Agricola]

A social worker is also somebody protecting young women and men Zoii. Maybe you should look into that as well

Lawyers earn more

There are plenty of other things that can be done, safe houses and refuge for example.

It is a moot point if the person concerned is born again and a genuine Christian, that person must still face full wrath of the law and take the punishment for those crimes. God may have already forgiven, but that is not an excuse to let people off.

Sexual depravity is nothing new, just look at all the historical abuse cases that have come to light in the UK with politicians and celebrities amongst others being brought to justice for abuse carried out from 50 years ago. I am sure everyone is familiar with Jimmy Saville.

It also shows the brick wall faced by people in dealing with these investigations, when you have the countries elite and law makers and enforcers up to no good, then it will be covered up and the victims are silenced.

the sex gangs in UK that were exposed is a good example, authorities did know about the goings on of these Muslim sex gangs, but of course sat on hands and did nothing, fear of Islamic community backlash maybe or could be the people at the top were enjoying the services gained from this.

The media is full of sexual abuse and rape. It will get worse though as we get nearer to Christ's return.

 

[pwrnJC]

zoii...you are in my prayers, sister. I feel within my spirit that you are going places and going to be very effective for JESUS by helping others....you are refreshing to chat with and very wise beyond your years. I know it's coming from your heart and that you are reflecting JESUS. GOD bless you!!!!!

 

[skipp]

Lawyers earn more

There are plenty of other things that can be done, safe houses and refuge for example.

It is a moot point if the person concerned is born again and a genuine Christian, that person must still face full wrath of the law and take the punishment for those crimes. God may have already forgiven, but that is not an excuse to let people off.

Sexual depravity is nothing new, just look at all the historical abuse cases that have come to light in the UK with politicians and celebrities amongst others being brought to justice for abuse carried out from 50 years ago. I am sure everyone is familiar with Jimmy Saville.

It also shows the brick wall faced by people in dealing with these investigations, when you have the countries elite and law makers and enforcers up to no good, then it will be covered up and the victims are silenced.

the sex gangs in UK that were exposed is a good example, authorities did know about the goings on of these Muslim sex gangs, but of course sat on hands and did nothing, fear of Islamic community backlash maybe or could be the people at the top were enjoying the services gained from this.

The media is full of sexual abuse and rape. It will get worse though as we get nearer to Christ's return.

The stuff going on in the UK is crazy. I was shocked when I read some articles about it, how the rich and powerful there have pedophiles rings and it's been covered up for decades and only now come to light. It makes me wonder if the U.S. has the same problem and it's also being covered up.

 

[notuptome]

Violent sin and violent sin against children is horrible. Even the most callous among is touched on a primal level when faced with this kind of thing. Surely there is some kind of scavenger in Australia that would benefit from this guy as a quick snack.

I have no compassion for this kind of man. To me he is a brutish beast fitted for destruction.

Pray that we never become so accustomed to sin that this kind of thing no longer horrifies us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Willie-T]

zoii....nobody is agreeing with what this so called 'pastor" has done..far from it. The point is..there are plenty of wolves in sheeps clothing everywhere...CHURCHES, Private Christian schools, seminaries...police departments..YMCA's, GIRL SCOUTS, day care centers....sexual impurities are everywhere on the planet..all businesses, etc. We live in a fallen world..despite man's best attempts. ONly when JESUS returns will we be raptured away from all of this depravity. So, for the rest of your life, are you going to post, march, protest, write and be actively against explotation of just females who go to church, or will you broaden your horizons and realize that all sin is in all places...so the best thing to combat it is to become an on-fire holy spirit filled CHRISTIAN, sharing ,caring, nurturing, teaching, training ALL peoples about JESUS CHRIST...their only hope. Otherwise, you might as well go "EENY MEENY MINEY MOE" and pick abused animals, or abortion, or Elderly abuse, or human slave traders, or prostitutes, or, or or....take your pick..all is sin..all is demonic, all is known to exist, but CHRIST is the ultimate answer to all of life's SIN..for HE conquered it!, forgives it...changes it for HIS glory, and helps us to deal with it within ourselves.

Magnificent post. I notice on down the thread that much of your point was missed, but that is understandable and, I guess, to be expected.

 

[Willie-T]

May I ask that we think sensibly about some of this stuff we claim "the system" is doing? We, ourselves, (no one else) has created a legal system that will jump at the chance to crucify a cop doing his duty... with the public howling in chorus for him to be drawn and quartered. And we blame officers for not being willing to sacrifice everything they have to actually DO something.... when doing so will often be tantamount to economical and social suicide.

 

[Willie-T]

There are obvious and effective deterrents. But the public (that's you and me) lack the cojones to implement them.

 

[Willie-T]

I would like each of us to consider something. If we only wait till after a child has been hurt to gloriously stand up and demand punishment for the crime................................ How have we done one single thing to protect that child before he/she was hurt?

Here is a little statistic for you:

If you took every last Sex Offender on the planet, and machine gunned them all down...... Within six (6) short years, there would again be the same number of Sex Offenders in our society.... and the rate of offences would be climbing even faster than it is today.

This, alone, demonstrates that just sitting on "repeat" offenders is no answer because in the above scenario, there were NO offenders existing on the Earth when the guns stopped firing. We cannot afford to sit back and wait for children to be molested before we try to curb this thing.