Obama In Israel

[SarahM777]

Katy...do you know who owned the LAND before the US and Britain got involved post WW2?
(see the Balfour Declaration, and why it was made)

Palestine was under control of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years before 1918.

[h=2]The British Mandate in Palestine[/h]By the early years of the twentieth century, Palestine was becoming a trouble spot of competing territorial claims and political interests. The Ottoman Empire was weakening, and European powers were entrenching their grip on areas in the eastern Mediterranean, including Palestine. During 1915-1916, as World War I was underway, the British High Commissioner in Egypt, Sir Henry McMahon, secretly corresponded with Husayn ibn `Ali, the patriarch of the Hashemite family and Ottoman governor of Mecca and Medina. McMahon convinced Husayn to lead an Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire, which was aligned with Germany against Britain and France in the war. McMahon promised that if the Arabs supported Britain in the war, the British government would support the establishment of an independent Arab state under Hashemite rule in the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire, including Palestine. The Arab revolt, led by T. E. Lawrence (“Lawrence of Arabia”) and Husayn’s son Faysal, was successful in defeating the Ottomans, and Britain took control over much of this area during World War I.

The British Mandate in Palestine | Middle East Research and Information Project

 

[zone]

This thread is about the division of the land and how there will "likely" be a Palestinian State (unfortunately)

I understand that you believe all biblical scripture has been fulfilled, so you believe all is in the past now? In which case this isn't the thread for you, because your views will be different as a result.

why would it be unfortunate for a palestinian state?
because you don't understand the old testament prophecies?

i'm for a single state btw - equality and accountability for all.

no, this thread is of interest to me for the very reason that people think this division of land issue is about today and can't seem to grasp the prophets spoke of the frist destruction, looked forward to the second, and always carried the message of the original Promise.

which was the Redeemer Who came already.

so, this fixation with two groups of unbelievers and christians floating inexplicably somwhere in the air as a Plan B something is ridiculous and unbiblical.

when people (who say they love Jesus) say things like "unfortunately...palestinians...." anything, we have a very serious problem.

antinomianism means a rejection and hatred, despising or ignoring of the Laws of God.
we say we we know God is to be obeyed.

yet we hand, without question, a license for lawlessness over to people we think are the people of God.
this is amazing to me.

though i'm very grateful for the years spent sorting it out - knowing how it came to be this way is very useful.

 

[raf]

God's people of Israel no longer exists. God removed them when he exiled them. Israel is now mostly populated by Europeans that converted to the Jewish faith.

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH ME!!! youre awesome sir first person on here ive seen say that!

 

[zone]

Palestine was under control of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years before 1918.

[h=2]The British Mandate in Palestine[/h]By the early years of the twentieth century, Palestine was becoming a trouble spot of competing territorial claims and political interests. The Ottoman Empire was weakening, and European powers were entrenching their grip on areas in the eastern Mediterranean, including Palestine. During 1915-1916, as World War I was underway, the British High Commissioner in Egypt, Sir Henry McMahon, secretly corresponded with Husayn ibn `Ali, the patriarch of the Hashemite family and Ottoman governor of Mecca and Medina. McMahon convinced Husayn to lead an Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire, which was aligned with Germany against Britain and France in the war. McMahon promised that if the Arabs supported Britain in the war, the British government would support the establishment of an independent Arab state under Hashemite rule in the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire, including Palestine. The Arab revolt, led by T. E. Lawrence (“Lawrence of Arabia”) and Husayn’s son Faysal, was successful in defeating the Ottomans, and Britain took control over much of this area during World War I.

The British Mandate in Palestine | Middle East Research and Information Project

oh...i heard something about an "arab" revolt against the ottomans...hmmm
T. E. Lawrence (“Lawrence of Arabia”) - ?? that sounds like 'British' (not) Intelligence (haha).
central casting.

*cough*

 

[raf]

The Obummer is fretting to get an apology for Turkey over a ship while ignoring asking Turky to apologize for murdering 1 million Christian Armenians in a genocide!

Obummer, you have your priorities screwed up. Deal with the genocide FIRST!

This happened in 1915 by the ottoman empire which wasnt turkey yet. What they did is wrong but the past is not going to change.

 

[psychomom]

It was 'Baron' Rothschild who was at the head of the British move to restore land to the Jews.
Prolly the wealthiest guy in the world...wonder why they listened?

The world was a different place than. Empire building, and whatnot.

In 1919, the General Secretary (and future President) of the Zionist Organization, Nahum Sokolow, published History of Zionism (1600–1918). He also represented the Zionist Organization at the Paris Peace Conference

"The object of Zionism is to establish for the Jewish people a home in Palestine secured by public law." ... ...It has been said and is still being obstinately repeated by anti-Zionists again and again, that Zionism aims at the creation of an independent "Jewish State" But this is fallacious. The "Jewish State" was never part of the Zionist programme. The Jewish State was the title of Herzl's first pamphlet, which had the supreme merit of forcing people to think. This pamphlet was followed by the first Zionist Congress, which accepted the Basle programme – the only programme in existence."

yeah...okey dokey, then.

 

[SarahM777]

oh...i heard something about an "arab" revolt against the ottomans...hmmm
T. E. Lawrence (“Lawrence of Arabia”) - ?? that sounds like 'British' (not) Intelligence (haha).
central casting.

*cough*

It comes down then to a basic understanding of why the Palestinians are so upset,they were made a promise for their own Nation if they helped defeat the Ottoman Empire. They were betrayed because the promise was never kept. They had the land that was promised to them taken away by the very countries that promised it to them.

 

[SarahM777]

Add to that in 1918 there were only 59,000 Jews in the entire land. It wasn't till the British mandate that the Jews began to immigrate back. But the mandate was not given nor approved by the Arab Palestinians. So by virtue of a piece of paper it was OK'ed for the land to be taken from the people who were there at that time. So in other words the land was stolen not given over by the Arab Palestinians. Or in other words that piece of paper gave the Jews licence to take the land that was not theirs at this time.

 

[psychomom]

Kate, I apologise. (with British spelling )

didn't mean to overwhelm you, here.
love,
el

 

[zone]

It has been said and is still being obstinately repeated by anti-Zionists again and again, that Zionism aims at the creation of an independent "Jewish State" But this is fallacious. The "Jewish State" was never part of the Zionist programme.

ahem.
ellie. if i hold up 4 fingers, and i want you to say 5, that's what you'll say.
and if you don't, well, we have the DSM-5 for you.
this obstinate refusal to deny reality is problematic.

ya know?
just beyond me why ppl think they should fear those who can kill the body but can not destroy the soul.
hmm...i wonder Whom we ought to fear?

 

[zone]

It comes down then to a basic understanding of why the Palestinians are so upset,they were made a promise for their own Nation if they helped defeat the Ottoman Empire. They were betrayed because the promise was never kept. They had the land that was promised to them taken away by the very countries that promised it to them.

oh sarah.
didn't you get the memo?

Newt informed us all the palestinians are a made-up people!
they didn't exist!

tsk...get a (non)-reality check would ya?
arg.

 

[psychomom]

ahem.
ellie. if i hold up 4 fingers, and i want you to say 5, that's what you'll say.
and if you don't, well, we have the DSM-5 for you.
this obstinate refusal to deny reality is problematic.

ya know?
just beyond me why ppl think they should fear those who can kill the body but can not destroy the soul.
hmm...i wonder Whom we ought to fear?

I guess call me Winston Smith?
(hope-- actual, real hope in Christ I hold out as an overcomer, though...poor Winston)

And ALL HAIL KING JESUS! ♥

 

[GreekChristian777]

Wow. Praise God there are knowledable Christians of our wicked rulers and those who control them.

 

[zone]

I guess call me Winston Smith?
(hope-- actual, real hope in Christ I hold out as an overcomer, though...poor Winston)

And ALL HAIL KING JESUS! ♥

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

 

[psychomom]

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

"you must spread some reputation around before giving it to zone again"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, the Israel in the Bible is gone. The people in Israel today are very secular and very atheist. Israel in the Bible was referring to the people--the groups all of Abe's descendants physically and spiritual descendants; it had nothing to do with the political state as most people believe.

The people of Isreal are not gone, Maybe the people in Isreal are not the true children of Israel. Israels culture is they would not intermarry. Especially devout Israel would never do this. They may follow the law to strict with their manmade rules. Even if they did intermary, they are still Israel. King davids mother was a gentile. Either way, God promised to keep a remnant. , and God will restor them as HE PROMISED.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't watch William Tapley. Some things he has said has been not so in line with the Bible. He views Israel in the Bible the same Israel that is today. (and it's not) Israel today is the church and the people who are devout religious Jews in Christ. It has nothing to do with the political state as most people would believe. The biological bloodline has been dried out because of marrying outside of the Jewish religion due to being scattered in A.D. 70. There is no more pure Jewish bloodline anymore. The majority of people living in Israel today are actually of European descent.

Yep. prophets like ezekial (dry bones) Isaiah and even paul are in error.. There is no more isreal.

oh when are the gentile believers going to do what Paul told them and not be so puffed up in pride that God gave them the gospel. and partially hid it from Israel.

 

[Drett]

It comes down then to a basic understanding of why the Palestinians are so upset,they were made a promise for their own Nation if they helped defeat the Ottoman Empire. They were betrayed because the promise was never kept. They had the land that was promised to them taken away by the very countries that promised it to them.

The list is endless for the reasons why the Palestinians are upset. Can you imagine how you would feel if the same happened in the US and the powerful countries ignored your plight and protected the oppressor.

“In our country there is room only for the Jews. We shall say to the Arabs: Get out! If they don’t agree, if they resist, we shall drive them out by force.”
-- Professor Ben-Zion Dinur, Israel’s First Minister of Education, 1954, from History of the Haganah.


“Till then everyone in Israel spoke about Arabs who had just run away in 1948, but there existed no real historical research on it. There were two conflicting propaganda versions, one Arab and another Jewish. As one who received his education in Israel, I thought I knew that the Arabs had ‘run away.’ But I knew nothing else. The Jewish generations of 1948, however, knew the truth and deliberately misrepresented it. They knew there were plenty of mass deportations, massacres and rapes . . . . The soldiers and the officials knew, but they suppressed what they knew and were deliberately disseminating lies.”
-- Israeli Historian Benny Morris in an interview with Rami Tal published in Israeli Daily Yediot Ahronot, December 1994.


All of the killed, with very few exceptions, were old men, women or children. The dead we found were all unjust victims, and none of them had died with a weapon in their hands.”
-- Eliyahu Arieli, Haganah member who arrived at Deir Yassin shortly after the massacre, O Jerusalem, Collins and Lapierre, 1972.


“Indiscriminate plundering of Palestinian property by Jews [in 1948] was so common that it caused Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion to confide to his diary that he was ‘bitterly surprised’ by the ‘mass robbery’ in which all parts of the population participated. [...] Tom Segev reported: ‘In Haifa, Jaffa and Jerusalem there were many civilians among the looters.’ Another Israeli writer, Moshe Smilanky, reported: ‘Individuals, groups and communities, men, women and children, all fell on the spoils. Doors, windows, lintels, brinks, roof-tiles, floor-tiles, junk and machine parts ...’ Segev commented that Smilansky ‘could have also added to the list toilet bowls, sinks, faucets and light bulbs.’”
-- p.68 of Fallen Pillars by Donald Neff.

I hardly see these as the actions of a chosen people. It was the introduction of corruption to the land by Europeans that converted to Judaism.

 

[Drett]

The people of Isreal are not gone, Maybe the people in Isreal are not the true children of Israel. Israels culture is they would not intermarry. Especially devout Israel would never do this. They may follow the law to strict with their manmade rules. Even if they did intermary, they are still Israel. King davids mother was a gentile. Either way, God promised to keep a remnant. , and God will restor them as HE PROMISED.

Do you believe then that it is God that will put the chosen people in Israel when the time is right rather than the Western World forcibly shoving in some Europeans ?

 

[Katy-follower]

when people (who say they love Jesus) say things like "unfortunately...palestinians...." anything, we have a very serious problem.

That's a really nasty thing to say. You're implying that I don't love Jesus. It's wrong to make such an accusation about a person.

I feel for the lost... the Jews, Palestinians and anyone that doesn't know Jesus, so your comment is really uncalled for.

Don't twist what I say and claim to know what I believe or feel, because you are very wrong.