supreme court to take on gay marriage

[quakerzen]

I think we all need to stop looking at the morality of this issue. Abortion, something that, I HOPE we all agree, is worse than sexual sins, is legal in this country. So is divorce, adultery, swinging and a large number of other things that are condemned in the Bible.

Aside from abortion, which is obviously a hot topic, I don't see any of you trying to illegalize these other activities, because doing so would be absurd and violate a bunch of privacy laws. Why isn't the same done for gay marriage? From a purely legal stand point, there is no good Constitutional or legal reason to ban same sex marriage. We are not a theocracy. I'm proud to say that I live in a nation where people can't be stoned to death because of their religious (or lack thereof) beliefs, political ideas or sexualities. The Constitution guarantees equal rights to all citizens. Whether you agree with same sex marriage or not, you cannot find a good legal reason for banning it.

If same sex marriage is made legal, churches who don't agree with it won't suddenly be forced to perform them. Even now, there are churches that don't have to marry inter-racial couples or couples with big age differences. No church will be forced to perform marriages they don't agree with. There are enough churches that do support gay marriage to make this a voided point. If same sex marriage is legalized, nothing will change... except same sex marriage will be legal in the US. Churches will not be affected, as churches make their own rules and regulations. Your lives will not be changed, I promise.

Just let people be happy. In 50 years, do you want your grandkids to look at you and think "Wow, grandpa/ma tried to make it so two people who love each other can't be together. I'm so glad I didn't turn out like that." Ya know, the way people look at old segregationists nowadays. This isn't a religious or ethics issue. It is a human rights issue.

 

[TheLordMyShepherd]

The god of this age is satan, he is the father of lies, and sadly being a follower of Christ, obeying from your heart, and standing strong against the lies coming from main stream Christianity, is wrong, you are evil and cannot judge!

You tell a homosexual they must repent, stop thier sins, you are preaching hate. The world and most churches today have fallen into the pit of lies, where you can come into the kingdom of God still defiled and a practicing homosexual, adulterer, porn addict, fornicator, drunkard, etc,,, and all is well,

So the Church today has failed miserable to do what is was called to do before the so called reformation came about and mixed truth with error, leaving the professing masses in bondage to sin, and weak and unable to discern thier way out of a paper bag!

I blame the churches for this gay marriage agenda, they will accept all forms of immorality as long as you just believe in Jesus, where real repentance and faith is thrown out the window!

And as we get closer to the return of Christ, there is no urgency for any to repent and stop sinning against a Holy God, who is waiting for the masses to repent on the scale of Nineveh!

IF YOU ARE TRULY SAVED, you have been:
"Called out of darkness into His marvelous light!" 1Pet2:9
"Turned from darkness to light, from the power of satan to God!" Acts24:18
"Delivered from the power of darkness & translated into the kingdom of His love!" Col1:13
"Crucified with Christ & made dead to sin." Rom6:6-7
"Turned into a New Creation in Christ!" 2Cor13:5
"Escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." 2Pet1:4
So please stop kidding yourselves about entering the Kingdom. If you are still in bondage to sin, lust or greed, you are NOT on the road to heaven. Your 'faith' has been hijacked by the false teachers. The deceiving spirits have spoken lies into your ears, you believed them and have forfeited your inheritance through the deceitfulness of sin. (Heb3:11-14) How could this possibly happen, you ask? False doctrine is the key. www.standingthegap.org

I believe the cause of a lot of problems that arise are due to the pope and Vatican. They act as they speak for the followers of Christ when that religion is anything but from Christ. They have changed God's word countless times and mislead others into believing that there are real aliens from other planets and embracing a new world order. -_- The world's not going to get any better anytime soon, but there WILL be that wondrous day the Lord destroys ALL evil and create the new heavens and earth where His righteousness shall reign forever and ever

 

[Newluke]

Also, if every eye eventually will see him, then what benefit does any of the outward judgement bring upon anyone? It in fact brings more upon you.

'Judge and ye shall be judged'.

Maybe it's a good idea if you made a single post out of your seperate remarks next time. You're making it very hard for me to reply to all of them at the same time. Since you obviously can't be bothered to make a coherent statement here, i won't go into all of your comments aswell.

God may ultimately be judge of all, but that's no reason why we shouldn't rebuke the sinner in some way. The bible clearly states there IS a penalty for various sins. So maybe some kind of punishment SHOULD be in place.
But we also have to take into account what Jesus said on the matter. He said: (...) He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone (...) (John 8:7) indicating we ALL are sinners, and we shouldn't condemn others for their sins.Who are we do condemn them when we sin ourselves on a daily basis?
But Jesus also said (...) go, and sin NO MORE (John 8:11), urging us to repent and RENOUNCE sin out of our own free will. But when you choose to LEGALIZE sin, as is the case with 'gay marriage' you're basically telling people to go, and sin some MORE.
Maybe we as sinners can't condemn other people for THEIR sins, but we CAN urge them to repent. We can't condemn other sinners, but REWARDING them, by LEGALIZING 'gay marriage' for instance, should be out of the question aswell.
I never said the gays should be punished for their sin btw, i said they should repent and renounce their sins, like I myself repent for MY sins on a daily basis.

 

[pickles]

Except for those things which are granted by governments -- civil rights, inheritance, visitation rights, etc.

No one here is asking God to give anything to gays, or forcing anyone to accept sin.

As long as you agree that the government is allowed to give secular rights to gays, we're on the same page.

The problem with this statement, at least here in the united states is?
We are the government, this country is that which we aprove.

Now you are right, the world is not what we live in as christians, so these things will be approved and accepted by the world.

But here in the U.S., we aprove what is lived.
Just something to think about when one considers God's judgement.
And something to morn , when it comes to aproving, being that which influences the choices made by some.

Its not about passing judgement on any, or telling one what to do, but standing and witnessing in truth, for the sake and love of a soul.

When I was young I thought all should have a right to what they chose to do.
Untill I saw my indifferance, was aproval, and contributed to losing a soul.
I will not condemn any, but I will not aprove any law that will cause another to stumble or fall.

God bless
pickles

 

[BarlyGurl]

I think we all need to stop looking at the morality of this issue.
Just let people be happy. In 50 years, do you want your grandkids to look at you and think "Wow, grandpa/ma tried to make it so two people who love each other can't be together. I'm so glad I didn't turn out like that." Ya know, the way people look at old segregationists nowadays. This isn't a religious or ethics issue. It is a human rights issue.

I notice that you persist in avoiding "MORAL" judgement. IT is a matter of FACT that having been given the capacity to reason moral ethics is are what seperates human beings from animals. However, having the capacity does not prevent human beings from ACTING like animals.
God is MORAL and he charges his children to conduct ourselves according to HIS moral dictates.
There is no scriptural precept for "just let people be happy (to do whatever they want to)... my bible says God's children are to be HOLY and there is an abundance of scriptural counsel on exactly what that looks like. I don't know of ANY christian who is PREVENTING two people from being together... THe issue is not permitting the redefining of marriage... GOD defined marriage and Christians accept/uphold and DEFEND that marriage is a convent relationship between 1 man and 1 woman... period.

 

[BarlyGurl]

First of all, Marriage is a state of mind.

REALLY??????? I'm thinking your salavation is too

 

[BarlyGurl]

the chasm here...

GIANORMOUS CHASM

 

[quakerzen]

I notice that you persist in avoiding "MORAL" judgement. IT is a matter of FACT that having been given the capacity to reason moral ethics is are what seperates human beings from animals. However, having the capacity does not prevent human beings from ACTING like animals.
God is MORAL and he charges his children to conduct ourselves according to HIS moral dictates.
There is no scriptural precept for "just let people be happy (to do whatever they want to)... my bible says God's children are to be HOLY and there is an abundance of scriptural counsel on exactly what that looks like. I don't know of ANY christian who is PREVENTING two people from being together... THe issue is not permitting the redefining of marriage... GOD defined marriage and Christians accept/uphold and DEFEND that marriage is a convent relationship between 1 man and 1 woman... period.

This is not a Biblical debate about gay marriage being right or wrong. This is a debate about whether, as a SECULAR, NON-THEOCRATIC nation, the US should allow gay marriage. There is no valid argument against it, constitutionally. It does not limit the rights of others and, in fact, not having it is a violation of rights of gay people.

You have to separate the good of the nation with your own religious beliefs. We don't follow the Bible because we aren't a nation that follows one religion. We are a nation by the people and for the people. ALL people. Not just Christians and Jews, all people.

 

[Colours]

Maybe it's a good idea if you made a single post out of your seperate remarks next time. You're making it very hard for me to reply to all of them at the same time. Since you obviously can't be bothered to make a coherent statement here, i won't go into all of your comments aswell.

God may ultimately be judge of all, but that's no reason why we shouldn't rebuke the sinner in some way. The bible clearly states there IS a penalty for various sins. So maybe some kind of punishment SHOULD be in place.
But we also have to take into account what Jesus said on the matter. He said: (...) He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone (...) (John 8:7) indicating we ALL are sinners, and we shouldn't condemn others for their sins.Who are we do condemn them when we sin ourselves on a daily basis?
But Jesus also said (...) go, and sin NO MORE (John 8:11), urging us to repent and RENOUNCE sin out of our own free will. But when you choose to LEGALIZE sin, as is the case with 'gay marriage' you're basically telling people to go, and sin some MORE.
Maybe we as sinners can't condemn other people for THEIR sins, but we CAN urge them to repent. We can't condemn other sinners, but REWARDING them, by LEGALIZING 'gay marriage' for instance, should be out of the question aswell.
I never said the gays should be punished for their sin btw, i said they should repent and renounce their sins, like I myself repent for MY sins on a daily basis.

You keep citing this 'go on and sin no more' as if you never, ever sin.

If you make gay marriage illegal because it is a sin, then one must be fair and make ALL sins illegal.

What would then happen to you? Or me?

Stoned? Beaten? Put in jail.

I can tell you, whether they will hear or whether they will forbear.

Paul said in his letters 'I do the things which I know I should not do'. Even Paul did not keep from all sin.

But Paul saw the FORGIVENESS of God, Paul saw the GRACE, freedom from guilt, the price that was paid so that He could stop without fear of the law, because in Christ, there was no fear. no death. He could stop out of honour to Jesus death. Out of respect. Out of love.

When my parents said to me 'dont do this', and I did it, they would sometimes strike me. It never made me want to stop doing what I was doing. It just made me afraid of being hit.

God once said to me when I read after I did something bad 'I'm disappointed son, I thought you were better. But I love you regardless'. That's what I got from the book. And I cried. Literally cried. And I had more want to change than any amount of strikes could make me.

And God's grace is like that. We are called to love, not to condemn and strike.

I can tell you, human laws are made that people do not infringe on another persons rights.

Murder is infringement upon another human beings life. Robbery. Violence. And in fact, so is the taking away of another human beings right to free will.

Our freedom of thought, freedom of speech and freedom to make our own choices is exactly what democratic law is about.

Let me ask you, if you were thrown in jail, beaten or secularized for EVERY sin you committed, would you soon lose hope with faith? Would you soon become angry and bitter and stop your sin out of fear of punishment rather than out of love and respect for your maker?

If I went round secularizing and treating anyone who is gay with contempt as if their sin is worse or they are lower, then what I am doing is making them respect me less (because I don't adhere to my own preaching) and making them respect this god less, because they see 'Christ' and 'God' through the way I speak and act at that point, although my showing of God is not accurate in the slightest because of my actions.

I can tell you, 'you have been called to be free, but do not use this freedom to indulge the flesh, but instead serve one another humbly in love'.

This is read to ME. It isn't for me to use to judge others. 'You aren't serving humbly in love'.

Well, my saying of that phrase would mean that I am also not serving HUMBLY in love. I'm taking a godly position of judgement.

It is for ME to adhere to. Not to FORCE anyone else to adhere to it.

 

[Colours]

Maybe it's a good idea if you made a single post out of your seperate remarks next time. You're making it very hard for me to reply to all of them at the same time. Since you obviously can't be bothered to make a coherent statement here, i won't go into all of your comments aswell.
H
God may ultimately be judge of all, but that's no reason why we shouldn't rebuke the sinner in some way. The bible clearly states there IS a penalty for various sins. So maybe some kind of punishment SHOULD be in place.
But we also have to take into account what Jesus said on the matter. He said: (...) He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone (...) (John 8:7) indicating we ALL are sinners, and we shouldn't condemn others for their sins.Who are we do condemn them when we sin ourselves on a daily basis?
But Jesus also said (...) go, and sin NO MORE (John 8:11), urging us to repent and RENOUNCE sin out of our own free will. But when you choose to LEGALIZE sin, as is the case with 'gay marriage' you're basically telling people to go, and sin some MORE.
Maybe we as sinners can't condemn other people for THEIR sins, but we CAN urge them to repent. We can't condemn other sinners, but REWARDING them, by LEGALIZING 'gay marriage' for instance, should be out of the question aswell.
I never said the gays should be punished for their sin btw, i said they should repent and renounce their sins, like I myself repent for MY sins on a daily basis.

I honestly believe that nobody, not even you or me, is perfect enough to start handing out punishments for the 'imperfect'.

 

[BarlyGurl]

This is not a Biblical debate about gay marriage being right or wrong. This is a debate about whether, as a SECULAR, NON-THEOCRATIC nation, the US should allow gay marriage. There is no valid argument against it, constitutionally. It does not limit the rights of others and, in fact, not having it is a violation of rights of gay people.

You have to separate the good of the nation with your own religious beliefs. We don't follow the Bible because we aren't a nation that follows one religion. We are a nation by the people and for the people. ALL people. Not just Christians and Jews, all people.

It so happens am also a defender of the constitution and your claim there is no valid argument is also FALSE, such also includes redefining several other words and/or adding to the constitution. Are you claiming sexual orientation is a religion??? A creed??? You are catagorically WRONG, and BTW sitting on the fence, asserting to be making valid arguments is laughable save for the serious nature of the topics. I'm pretty sure you just think I hate homosexuals... but as it turns out I am related to some too. Thing is... even THEY recognize and respect that MARRIAGE if between a man and a woman... recognize the offensiveness of demanding homosexual "RIGHTS"and are HAPPY to live together with partners without trying to redefine marriage or the consitition.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

A few simple questions to ponder:

1) Is it legal in the U.S. to take the Lord's name in vain? Why or why not?
2) Was it once illegal, and at some point in time made legal? When did that change happen? Why did that change happen?
3) Should we change it back? Why or why not?

If your answer to #3 is "no," and are not actively fighting to change it back, and yet you want to keep gay marriage illegal, you are a hypocrite. No two ways about it. Either accept it or change it.

 

[quakerzen]

It so happens am also a defender of the constitution and your claim there is no valid argument is also FALSE, such also includes redefining several other words and/or adding to the constitution. Are you claiming sexual orientation is a religion??? A creed??? You are catagorically WRONG, and BTW sitting on the fence, asserting to be making valid arguments is laughable save for the serious nature of the topics. I'm pretty sure you just think I hate homosexuals... but as it turns out I am related to some too. Thing is... even THEY recognize and respect that MARRIAGE if between a man and a woman... recognize the offensiveness of demanding homosexual "RIGHTS"and are HAPPY to live together with partners without trying to redefine marriage or the consitition.

Yeah, and there are black people that hate other black people and don't think they should have equal rights. It doesn't make them 99% of their group.

And no, but there is also an equal protection clause. Not granting gays the right to marry is the same as denying a black woman and white man the right to marry each other. It's hatred, plain and simple. I don't care what made up gay people you have in your head. I have a black friend, I guess it's okay for me to use the "N" word and think that blacks need to be segregated.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Yeah, and there are black people that hate other black people and don't think they should have equal rights. It doesn't make them 99% of their group.

And no, but there is also an equal protection clause. Not granting gays the right to marry is the same as denying a black woman and white man the right to marry each other. It's hatred, plain and simple. I don't care what made up gay people you have in your head. I have a black friend, I guess it's okay for me to use the "N" word and think that blacks need to be segregated.

Gosh... now your remarks aren't even coherent.There's that CHASM AGAIN! Made up people... really? that's the best you can do? by your standards of comparison... gatorade and antifreeze are the same thing... Thirsty?

 

[Newluke]

I honestly believe that nobody, not even you or me, is perfect enough to start handing out punishments for the 'imperfect'.

I honestly believe you should read my posts better.

 

[Nautilus]

Well at least Gingrich has come to his senses:
On gay marriage, meanwhile, Gingrich argued that Republicans could no longer close their eyes to the course of public opinion. While he continued to profess a belief that marriage is defined as being between a man and a woman, he suggested that the party (and he himself) could accept a distinction between a "marriage in a church from a legal document issued by the state" -- the latter being acceptable.

"I think that this will be much more difficult than immigration for conservatism to come to grips with," he said, noting that the debate's dynamics had changed after state referenda began resulting in the legalization of same-sex marriage. "It is in every family. It is in every community. The momentum is clearly now in the direction in finding some way to ... accommodate and deal with reality. And the reality is going to be that in a number of American states -- and it will be more after 2014 -- gay relationships will be legal, period."

 

[zac]

just in case no one has seen it here is a link that is really important in this debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQjNJUSraY

 

[biscuit]

just in case no one has seen it here is a link that is really important in this debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQjNJUSraY

God will judge all sinners including homosexuals. And it will be very soon.