Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness By 91 Percent; Here's How

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KimPetras

Guest
#121
#121
Mitspa said:
No I said what I said ...not what I didn't say ..and calling something like socialism a Christian principal to promote it, only causes harm to the true principals of our faith. I know what Christian charity is and is not... It is not giving other peoples money away..it is Christians giving from what God has blessed them with or even form their own needs based on the love that Christ has placed in us and for His Glory...it is not socialism.
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But with Housing First, less people's money will be "given away." And since you're not saying that a government can't show the teachings and values in the bible, you're still against helping the homeless people who are trying to better themselves because there are some bad apples who don't want to better themselves... The bible made no mention of only helping those who are helping themselves... though, I could be wrong.
 
Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#122
Mar 2, 2016
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#122
KimPetras said:
But with Housing First, less people's money will be "given away." And since you're not saying that a government can't show the teachings and values in the bible, you're still against helping the homeless people who are trying to better themselves because there are some bad apples who don't want to better themselves... The bible made no mention of only helping those who are helping themselves... though, I could be wrong.
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the bible talks about gaining wisdom. The govt by its very nature shuns wisdom. If I have a friend who keeps borrowing money from me because he won't get a job it is unwise for me to keep giving him money and enabling his lifestyle of sloth.
 
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KimPetras

Guest
#123
#123
Sirk said:
the bible talks about gaining wisdom. The govt by its very nature shuns wisdom. If I have a friend who keeps borrowing money from me because he won't get a job it is unwise for me to keep giving him money and enabling his lifestyle of sloth.
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Which is why I never loan/borrow money with family members. I have only ever given it to them. The money could cause contention if there is an expectation for the person to pay it back and doesn't do so. It's not worth it. To be fair though, they repaid the money voluntarily, when there was no expectation to.

But borrowing/loaning isn't charity. Giving is.
 
Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#124
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
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#124
KimPetras said:
Which is why I never loan/borrow money with family members. I have only ever given it to them. The money could cause contention if there is an expectation for the person to pay it back and doesn't do so. It's not worth it. To be fair though, they repaid the money voluntarily, when there was no expectation to.

But borrowing/loaning isn't charity. Giving is.
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that is only your opinion.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#125
#125
KimPetras said:
But with Housing First, less people's money will be "given away." And since you're not saying that a government can't show the teachings and values in the bible, you're still against helping the homeless people who are trying to better themselves because there are some bad apples who don't want to better themselves... The bible made no mention of only helping those who are helping themselves... though, I could be wrong.
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How come you read what I say ..and then turn it into what you want it to say that I said? I am for programs that help folks have better lives and generally get them to the place they don't need help... Now some will be unable to ever help themselves because they have real issues and we need to deal with that with wisdom as a society according to what we can AFFORD. I would love to buy lots of folks a lot of stuff they need..but I cant spend money I don't have ... If Utah has money to spend this way..fine
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#126
#126
KimPetras said:
Which is why I never loan/borrow money with family members. I have only ever given it to them. The money could cause contention if there is an expectation for the person to pay it back and doesn't do so. It's not worth it. To be fair though, they repaid the money voluntarily, when there was no expectation to.

But borrowing/loaning isn't charity. Giving is.
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Giving your own money is charity ..giving other peoples money away is called stealing
 
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KimPetras

Guest
#127
#127
Sirk said:
that is only your opinion.
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I'm pretty sure anyone who believes in the bible shares the same opinion that giving is charity.

Remember the parable of the unforgiving debtor? Matthew 18:21-35

A man owed another man money (borrow/loaned). He and his family were going to be sold into slavery because he couldn't afford to pay it back. He pleaded for him not to sale him. The other man forgave the debt. That was an act of charity, not the loaning it back... but the forgiving him of his debt.
 
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KimPetras

Guest
#128
#128
Mitspa said:
Giving your own money is charity ..giving other peoples money away is called stealing
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Not if the government is the one that takes the money in the form of taxes.

The bible isn't saying taxing is stealing. It says give to Caesar what is Caesar's. Mark 12:17
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#129
#129
KimPetras said:
Not if the government is the one that takes the money in the form of taxes.

The bible isn't saying taxing is stealing. It says give to Caesar what is Caesar's. Mark 12:17
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Don't call that charity..thats taking money from people and giving it to others ... That's not charity at all ...

and we as tax payers in America have the right to say TEA ..and we the people will do the charity work for the glory of Christ, not the glory of Obama and Hillary and Bernie
 
Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#130
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
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#130
KimPetras said:
I'm pretty sure anyone who believes in the bible shares the same opinion that giving is charity.

Remember the parable of the unforgiving debtor? Matthew 18:21-35

A man owed another man money (borrow/loaned). He and his family were going to be sold into slavery because he couldn't afford to pay it back. He pleaded for him not to sale him. The other man forgave the debt. That was an act of charity, not the loaning it back... but the forgiving him of his debt.
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Loaning money can be charity. You have to make assumptions to say that it's not.
 
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KimPetras

Guest
#131
#131
Mitspa said:
Don't call that charity..thats taking money from people and giving it to others ... That's not charity at all ...

and we as tax payers in America have the right to say TEA ..and we the people will do the charity work for the glory of Christ, not the glory of Obama and Hillary and Bernie
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I don't think the direct act of taxing is charity at all. I do think the government can endorse charitable programs with tax payer money that overall costs tax payers less while providing housing for homeless people who are trying to better themselves. I do think it's the people showing charity as the money comes from the people, it's just organized by the government (who is suppose to represent the people).
 
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KimPetras

Guest
#132
#132
Sirk said:
Loaning money can be charity. You have to make assumptions to say that it's not.
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Perhaps one can make the case that the banks that gave home mortgage loans to people they knew couldn't afford it were "charitable"... if it weren't for the big bonus checks they would make every time they gave someone a mortgage loan...

Loan sharks could be considered charitable too...

Can you show me a biblical reference to loaning/borrowing is considered charity?

charity - definition of charity in English from the Oxford dictionary
 
Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#133
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
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#133
KimPetras said:
Perhaps one can make the case that the banks that gave home mortgage loans to people they knew couldn't afford it were "charitable"... if it weren't for the big bonus checks they would make every time they gave someone a mortgage loan...

Loan sharks could be considered charitable too...

Can you show me a biblical reference to loaning/borrowing is considered charity?

charity - definition of charity in English from the Oxford dictionary
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Youre talking about organizations. I'm talking about the human heart. Which leads me to believe that you don't yet know what real sacrifice is.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#134
#134
KimPetras said:
I don't think the direct act of taxing is charity at all. I do think the government can endorse charitable programs with tax payer money that overall costs tax payers less while providing housing for homeless people who are trying to better themselves. I do think it's the people showing charity as the money comes from the people, it's just organized by the government (who is suppose to represent the people).
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Oh come on Kim..the government not taking money from people is charity to you? I think you need to understand the biblical term "charity" according to God and not some social justice ideas you have learned from your left-wing friends.
 
Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#135
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
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#135
The difference between the knowledge that you have in your head Kim and the wisdom that life can give you in your heart is pretty big. Keep seeking knowledge but don't forget to keep your heart open to the wisdom that life can bring you. Anyone can build a building on paper. The conditions of the actual construction of it contain countless variables.
 
Dude653

Dude653

Senior Member
#136
Mar 19, 2011
12,347
1,044
113
#136
Have you read The Manhattan Hunt Club by John Saul? It's a fictional novel but the auther visited the New York subways to research. Apparently there are entire communities of homeless people who live in the unused subway tunnels beneath the city
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#137
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
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#137
KimPetras said:
I think most people know that they aren't all lazy. They just want to run with that perspective because it appeals to their moral high ground.
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Moral high ground?

If I listed my sins of any given day I'd short circuit CC's power supply. I have no moral high ground but Jesus Christ. Jesus and the fact that I work for a living. Moral high ground? Try again.
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#140
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
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#140
KimPetras said:
I'm pretty open minded. If you have an idea or know of a program that helps homeless people who are trying to better themselves while also lowering the cost on the tax payers, I'm all ears.
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Fishing poles. There. Nuff said.
 
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