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K
Well it may simply be the denomination you are attending.I will say again in 20yrs of ministry and traveling in hundreds of churches of different denominations that has not been my experience at all. I did not find people eagerly awaiting judgement for the sinner as many had unsaved family members themselves. So I really dont know what to say about your experience except to say its not the norm.
K
Well as I stated in my other post this has not been my experience that people take joy in the sinner being lost. Thats why I went into the ministry at the age of 16. I dedicated 20yrs to travel and share the gospel to any church that would allow us to come in. From Catholic to United,Pentecostal to Baptist.
The original text says miscarry, or for her seed to depart from her. There are moderns translations that have tried to substitute "give birth prematurely" however this is not accurate. I'm not saying that this verse necessarily means the baby died either, but the original Hebrew is very unclear on the topic. Because this verse is so ambiguous and the bible is otherwise silent on the issue, I always advise caution others not to project their own beliefs onto God.
Here is a very interesting and even handed read on the topic: Stand to Reason | What Exodus 21:22 Says about Abortion
In general I do not like abortion and I am certainly not advocating it, but I always try to remind Christians not to speak on which the bible is silent.
Here is a very interesting and even handed read on the topic: Stand to Reason | What Exodus 21:22 Says about Abortion
In general I do not like abortion and I am certainly not advocating it, but I always try to remind Christians not to speak on which the bible is silent.
What do I win? 
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People's experiences are different. Your experiences will be different from mine and mine will be different from yours, which are both valid and real. I've been a part of many denominations, not because of "church hopping" but because I moved to new areas and worked with what was available.
I've also done some work in prison ministry, which is interesting. On one hand, you have the victims who are all waiting for the day God punishes the person who wronged them, which is certainly understandable with what some people have been through. On the other hand, you have the prisoner's families who felt it was their loved one who was done wrong and they talk about the day when God will bring down the corrupt guards and evil prison system and expose the truth (which of course is sometimes very true--there can certainly be corruption on both sides.)
I understand that for you, it may not be normal. But for me, it's something I've seen on a pretty continuous basis. I am always interested in what's really going on behind the scenes of smiling people who say, "Praise Jesus", but would be happy to see the death of several people around them.
I'm also guessing that you probably don't also know that my father is a pastor, which doesn't make me an expert by any means, but just someone who's sometimes gets to hear about what's really going on in people's lives behind the masks.
All I really wanted to do was explain what I had identified with in Willie's post--not start a new debate or anything--but I appreciate your efforts in making an input.
Thank you.
I've also done some work in prison ministry, which is interesting. On one hand, you have the victims who are all waiting for the day God punishes the person who wronged them, which is certainly understandable with what some people have been through. On the other hand, you have the prisoner's families who felt it was their loved one who was done wrong and they talk about the day when God will bring down the corrupt guards and evil prison system and expose the truth (which of course is sometimes very true--there can certainly be corruption on both sides.)
I understand that for you, it may not be normal. But for me, it's something I've seen on a pretty continuous basis. I am always interested in what's really going on behind the scenes of smiling people who say, "Praise Jesus", but would be happy to see the death of several people around them.
I'm also guessing that you probably don't also know that my father is a pastor, which doesn't make me an expert by any means, but just someone who's sometimes gets to hear about what's really going on in people's lives behind the masks.
All I really wanted to do was explain what I had identified with in Willie's post--not start a new debate or anything--but I appreciate your efforts in making an input.
Thank you.
This is something I've been struggling with myself, as I've harbored unforgiveness over someone from the past for years and keep trying to overcome it. I always remember the Biblical parable of the man who was looking for men to work in his field.
If you put in a full day at work and then saw someone come waltzing in at the last hour and get paid THE SAME AMOUNT as you, how agreeable are you going to be about that?
I work with people every day (and let's face it, sometimes we're all like this) who throw an absolute fit if someone comes back from a break 5 minutes later than they do, let alone all of eternity.
Willie, just read your post, and I too am surely guilty as charged. Sometimes even more so than anyone else. Thank goodness God is faithful--and patient.
If you put in a full day at work and then saw someone come waltzing in at the last hour and get paid THE SAME AMOUNT as you, how agreeable are you going to be about that?
I work with people every day (and let's face it, sometimes we're all like this) who throw an absolute fit if someone comes back from a break 5 minutes later than they do, let alone all of eternity.
Willie, just read your post, and I too am surely guilty as charged. Sometimes even more so than anyone else. Thank goodness God is faithful--and patient.
K
The Bible speaks of God knowing us before we are born,of being knitted together in the womb.
[h=1]Psalm 22:9-10 Yet you brought me out of the womb you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.[/h]
[h=1]Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations[/h]
A baby has a heartbeat at 6 weeks.At the 5th week the brain,spinal cord,heart begin to form.No one but God has a right to take life.So I dont believe the Bible is silent on abortion.The Bible says when Elizabeth heard Marys greeting the baby within her leaped for joy and she was filled with the Holy Spirit.There is not doubt abortion is wrong according to God Word.
K
People's experiences are different. Your experiences will be different from mine and mine will be different from yours, which are both valid and real. I've been a part of many denominations, not because of "church hopping" but because I moved to new areas and worked with what was available.
I've also done some work in prison ministry, which is interesting. On one hand, you have the victims who are all waiting for the day God punishes the person who wronged them, which is certainly understandable with what some people have been through. On the other hand, you have the prisoner's families who felt it was their loved one who was done wrong and they talk about the day when God will bring down the corrupt guards and evil prison system and expose the truth (which of course is sometimes very true--there can certainly be corruption on both sides.)
I understand that for you, it may not be normal. But for me, it's something I've seen on a pretty continuous basis. I am always interested in what's really going on behind the scenes of smiling people who say, "Praise Jesus", but would be happy to see the death of several people around them.
I'm also guessing that you probably don't also know that my father is a pastor, which doesn't make me an expert by any means, but just someone who's sometimes gets to hear about what's really going on in people's lives behind the masks.
All I really wanted to do was explain what I had identified with in Willie's post--not start a new debate or anything--but I appreciate your efforts in making an input.
Thank you.
I've also done some work in prison ministry, which is interesting. On one hand, you have the victims who are all waiting for the day God punishes the person who wronged them, which is certainly understandable with what some people have been through. On the other hand, you have the prisoner's families who felt it was their loved one who was done wrong and they talk about the day when God will bring down the corrupt guards and evil prison system and expose the truth (which of course is sometimes very true--there can certainly be corruption on both sides.)
I understand that for you, it may not be normal. But for me, it's something I've seen on a pretty continuous basis. I am always interested in what's really going on behind the scenes of smiling people who say, "Praise Jesus", but would be happy to see the death of several people around them.
I'm also guessing that you probably don't also know that my father is a pastor, which doesn't make me an expert by any means, but just someone who's sometimes gets to hear about what's really going on in people's lives behind the masks.
All I really wanted to do was explain what I had identified with in Willie's post--not start a new debate or anything--but I appreciate your efforts in making an input.
Thank you.
Well we have something in common. My father is ordained also. I would still say that this is not the opinion of the majority of Christians.Not who reads and understands their Bible. To hate someone makes us guilty of murder. Any Christian worth their salt knows this. I always enjoy discussing with you though.We do have a lot of opinions in common.
K
I think neither of them hate anyone.I think they are speaking of righteous indigence though they may be wording it in a wrong way.For instance Planned Parenthood videos that showed staff talking of cutting up baby parts I cried as I saw parts of a little baby cut up in a dish.Was I righteously indignant? You bet! Do I commit the sin of hating the person? No. We are living under grace but in the OT verses talk about God breaking the teeth of the enemy and other violent terms and rejoicing that God will overcome evil. So yes I believe they would give a thumbs up.I dont think either of them are hateful people. But they do hate evil and are very direct about that.Again I cant speak for others.Its just what I see.
OK. Let's bring it home. Do you think any of these people you seem to feel are only angry with "evil", would be willing to see just "evil" punished, but the humans through which that "evil" was perpetuated given a comfortable and pleasurable existence for Eternity?
C'mon, you know the answer. We humans want our vengeance against other humans.... period. We would never consider only "evil" being punished, and not the people like Hitler and Jack the Ripper through whom the "evil" was enacted, getting the full measure of punishment.
Yet this is exactly what the Bible says was done for you and me.
C'mon, you know the answer. We humans want our vengeance against other humans.... period. We would never consider only "evil" being punished, and not the people like Hitler and Jack the Ripper through whom the "evil" was enacted, getting the full measure of punishment.
Yet this is exactly what the Bible says was done for you and me.
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