Christian Contradictions I Love! (Who Knows The Most About Marriage...)

[Jamal]

Throughout the Bible, there are many instances where simple people have been used by God to do great things. Think of Joseph, Moses, Samuel, David, Gideon and so many more! Were they 'qualified' to do the work God chose them to do? No way! But God accomplished His purpose through these people.

The other poster wants an evil god, one guilty of her sins so that she doesn't have to feel guilty about her own sins. She wants to believe Paul was divorced so that there would be example of a great saint who was divorced, and yet not one word of criticism exists of that divorce. Paul said he was the chief of sinners because before he met Jesus, he was a "blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent." His list of sins doesn't include divorce, therefor divorce is implicitly not bad.

Paul's background plays a huge role in how God used Paul. It was Paul's faithfulness to the law that gave Paul credibility with the Jews. It was Paul's zealousness for the law that caused him to be such a powerful opponent of the early church. It is Paul's moral integrity that gives him credibility on marital matters, even though he was never married. So, yes, Paul's background matters and if were divorced, God couldn't have used him in the same way.

The other poster also wants to believe Jesus was raised in a single-parent home, as if that would somehow justify women who become single mothers through fornication. Mary wasn't guilty of fornication. And, Jesus wasn't raised in a single-family home. We know from the Bible that Joseph was still around when Jesus was twelve, the cusp of adulthood. And, we have no evidence that Joseph had died until Jesus was about 30. And, that would be death, not divorce.

 

[Ugly]

If Paul had been married, he would have been useless to God.



Where are single parents being criticized? It's fornication that's criticized. And, Jesus wasn't raised in a single-parent household.



Your sinful god might be closer to you than the true God, but I'll stick with the true God.

Perhaps you should stick to the Bible Debate forums where you fit in. The whole finger pointing, word twisting, holier than thou, self righteous crap doesn't go over as well here as it does over there.

 

[tourist]

If Paul had been married, he would have been useless to God.



Where are single parents being criticized? It's fornication that's criticized. And, Jesus wasn't raised in a single-parent household.



Your sinful god might be closer to you than the true God, but I'll stick with the true God.

What does this nonsense have to do about marriage?

 

[Charcoal]

The other poster wants an evil god, one guilty of her sins so that she doesn't have to feel guilty about her own sins. She wants to believe Paul was divorced so that there would be example of a great saint who was divorced, and yet not one word of criticism exists of that divorce. Paul said he was the chief of sinners because before he met Jesus, he was a "blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent." His list of sins doesn't include divorce, therefor divorce is implicitly not bad.

So you are saying that if a Godly Christian is left by a spouse who is not a follower of Christ that this would be SIN?

Careful there, buddy, you may need to re-read some of what was posted and also be mindful of the audience. Remember please, that the POSSIBILITY of Paul having been married was, again, "merely a supposition for the sake of an intellectual exercise for those who were willing to learn from the possibility and through that better gain the ability to love God's children regardless of the blows that life may have dealt them or that they may have dealt themselves."

I'm beginning to think that your pastor only preaches to the choir. Do you sing tenor?

Paul's background plays a huge role in how God used Paul. It was Paul's faithfulness to the law that gave Paul credibility with the Jews. It was Paul's zealousness for the law that caused him to be such a powerful opponent of the early church.

With you on this much

It is Paul's moral integrity that gives him credibility on marital matters, even though he was never married. So, yes, Paul's background matters and if were divorced, God couldn't have used him in the same way.

That's a nice box you have there. How did you ever fit God in without cutting off some bits?

The other poster also wants to believe Jesus was raised in a single-parent home, as if that would somehow justify women who become single mothers through fornication. Mary wasn't guilty of fornication. And, Jesus wasn't raised in a single-family home. We know from the Bible that Joseph was still around when Jesus was twelve, the cusp of adulthood. And, we have no evidence that Joseph had died until Jesus was about 30. And, that would be death, not divorce.

You are so very off the rails on this that it's nearly impossible to confront. You have taken from context one kernel of what was said and based your opinions of their beliefs without hearing the words that were said, seeing the point that was made, or growing from the opportunity to see things in a way other than you normally do. To quote myself a second time, it was, "merely a supposition for the sake of an intellectual exercise for those who were willing to learn from the possibility and through that better gain the ability to love God's children regardless of the blows that life may have dealt them or that they may have dealt themselves." That is to say, it was something to think about, not an assertion of it being truth, and was done in such a way as to encourage those who encountered it to be able to walk away with bigger Christian hearts...not misleading anyone into thinking that Christ had sinned, that Christ came from sin, or that God is anything less than God.

 

[Markum1972]

Paul's words are more than a man's words because they are inspired by God and part of scripture. And, no husband and wife who keeps Paul's marital instructions will have a marriage that fails. Marriages fail because one spouse, probably both, of a marriage refuse to keep biblical values.

John 10:
3 Go your ways; behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves,
16 He that heareth you heareth Me, and he that despiseth you despiseth Me, and he that despiseth Me despiseth Him that sent Me.

Matthew 7:24 “Therefore, whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock.

 

[tourist]

If Paul had been married, he would have been useless to God.



Where are single parents being criticized? It's fornication that's criticized. And, Jesus wasn't raised in a single-parent household.



Your sinful god might be closer to you than the true God, but I'll stick with the true God.

You seem to have a fascination with fornication. There are several porn threads on this site where this issue can be addressed.

 

[Charcoal]

easy there, let's not get personal in our rebuttals.

I think that this has become another wonderful example of how Great threads are ruined by senseless arguments. I am sorry for that and for my part in that. I would very much like to see this thread returned to the conversation of its original intent, and done so with Christian love.

 

[Roh_Chris]

Thanks to some people for derailing this thread.

 

[Markum1972]

I also want to reiterate the fact that I HIGHLY respect married people. We have so many wonderful married people here who regularly visit our humble little Singles Forum with humor, compassion, and fellowship.

What I don't agree with are those who condemn the single and formerly married and/or set themselves up as something better than others because of their marital status. Thank you, Markum and Posthuman, for bringing up the Apostle Paul. I don't think a better example could have been given in this case.

I often wonder why God did not include such details in the Bible. Would people act a little differently, slower to judge and more willing to show grace... if they knew that Paul himself had once been married?

I have also read that because Jesus told Mary that Mark would be now be her son (and therefore take care of her), Joseph had most likely passed away. For how long, we have no way of telling. Would people be a little bit less hesitant to criticize single parents if they knew that Jesus Himself had been part of a single-parent household?

Although we can't know for sure, I love little details like this.

For me, it brings God just a little bit closer... reminding me that He truly understands the things we've been through.

Whether Jesus was in a single-parent household or not, he understands all of our suffering as it is written. Worldly wisdom tells us that no one can understand our suffering unless they have also suffered it. However, scripture says otherwise saying that we share in the various trials and tribulations. Satan would like to deceive people into isolating them from the rest of the flock. A "divide and conquer" tactic.

Truly I tell you that there are some things that I have never suffered that God has given me understanding and compassion towards. In these things God has made me able to offer help to those who have suffered those things. I do not need to suffer them to understand them when I have God who has all the answers.

James1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him.

If Paul had been married, he would have been useless to God.

Where are single parents being criticized? It's fornication that's criticized. And, Jesus wasn't raised in a single-parent household.

Your sinful god might be closer to you than the true God, but I'll stick with the true God.

Paul would not have been "condemned" [labeled as not fit for use] because of his marital status.

Your second statement I agree with.

I see that you have spent a good deal of time in study. Remember... 1 Corinthians 13

 

[Markum1972]

You seem to have a fascination with fornication. There are several porn threads on this site where this issue can be addressed.

I recognize his "fascination" as a burden against it. The cup of fornication is overflowing in the United States (as well as other parts of the world) so much so that it grieves the Holy Spirit. It is a frustrating topic because ears are dull or hearing and hearts are hardened against hearing the truth about it and the plagues that it has brought upon the nation. Nevertheless, a cry out to the people to repent even when it seems like no one is listening in hope that even just one person will hear it and be spared.

Luke 15:7 I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

jamal... don't forget the greatest of the three.

 

[tourist]

You seem to have a fascination with fornication. There are several porn threads on this site where this issue can be addressed.

I apologize for this post. It was uncalled for.

 

[MissCris]

The other poster wants an evil god, one guilty of her sins so that she doesn't have to feel guilty about her own sins.

This line is as far as I got on this page. What a statement to make about somebody you know nothing about! I believe that the "other poster" you're speaking of is one of the most open, honest members here about her sins and shortcomings. I realize that you're going to see only what you want to see and believe what you want about her (and anyone else who doesn't agree with you), but I couldn't let this one go without saying something.

Believing that God understands our struggles, our sorrows...that's not even sort of similar to believing that God is sinful like the rest of us. Of COURSE God understands our troubles- He created us, He designed us, He "wired" us, so to speak. He wouldn't be much of a Creator if He didn't understand His creation.

Anyway, this thread has turned crazy, so I think I'm out...Kim, just want you to know we love you and are glad that you share your heart and ideas with us.

 

[Roh_Chris]

This line is as far as I got on this page. What a statement to make about somebody you know nothing about! I believe that the "other poster" you're speaking of is one of the most open, honest members here about her sins and shortcomings. I realize that you're going to see only what you want to see and believe what you want about her (and anyone else who doesn't agree with you), but I couldn't let this one go without saying something.

Believing that God understands our struggles, our sorrows...that's not even sort of similar to believing that God is sinful like the rest of us. Of COURSE God understands our troubles- He created us, He designed us, He "wired" us, so to speak. He wouldn't be much of a Creator if He didn't understand His creation.

Anyway, this thread has turned crazy, so I think I'm out...Kim, just want you to know we love you and are glad that you share your heart and ideas with us.

I agree with you, MissCris. Seoulsearch has put up a few though-provoking threads that have made me examine myself.

Dear Seoulsearch,

It is wonderful that you have put up such threads so that we all can share our opinions on such things. Please don't let the accusations bother you. We love you.

With love,
The 'friendly' wild bear.

 

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone! Oh my goodness. So this is what happens when I go to work .

I just want to thank everyone for their kindness and support, especially Cris and... (Roh) Chris (sounds like the makings of a comedy duo ). I sometimes give up on writing threads because the funny ones always seem to be the ones that people really want... But after reading in another thread that there are a lot of people who come here strictly for serious, thought-provoking threads (not that this is one of them, but... ), I greatly appreciate there there actually IS an interest in some of the more serious threads.

Jamal, I never said I believed or wanted to believe Paul was divorced or that Jesus was raised by a single-parent family. But the Bible does not say either way. I'm sure we'll know when we get to heaven. I also don't believe in an evil God, as the God of the Bible that I believe in is perfect.

Am I understanding you correctly in that you believe you follow all of God's laws for marriage perfectly and this is why you believe as you do? Jesus said that anyone who looks at another with lust is committing adultery. I'm not saying you are guilty of this, but what I believe Jesus was illustrating in this point is that, no matter how hard we try, in any situation in life, we are going to fail. That's why we need Jesus as our Savior in the first place. You said that all we need to do is follow God's principles for marriage (and for life, of course.) If it were possible to do that perfectly, Jesus would have never had to die in our place.

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

I could be wrong, but I believe that anyone who believes they are or even can follow God's laws perfectly in any area of life is greatly deceived.

 

[tourist]

Hey Everyone! Oh my goodness. So this is what happens when I go to work .

I just want to thank everyone for their kindness and support, especially Cris and... (Roh) Chris (sounds like the makings of a comedy duo ). I sometimes give up on writing threads because the funny ones always seem to be the ones that people really want... But after reading in another thread that there are a lot of people who come here strictly for serious, thought-provoking threads (not that this is one of them, but... ), I greatly appreciate there there actually IS an interest in some of the more serious threads.

Jamal, I never said I believed or wanted to believe Paul was divorced or that Jesus was raised by a single-parent family. But the Bible does not say either way. I'm sure we'll know when we get to heaven. I also don't believe in an evil God, as the God of the Bible that I believe in is perfect.

Am I understanding you correctly in that you believe you follow all of God's laws for marriage perfectly and this is why you believe as you do? Jesus said that anyone who looks at another with lust is committing adultery. I'm not saying you are guilty of this, but what I believe Jesus was illustrating in this point is that, no matter how hard we try, in any situation in life, we are going to fail. That's why we need Jesus as our Savior in the first place. You said that all we need to do is follow God's principles for marriage (and for life, of course.) If it were possible to do that perfectly, Jesus would have never had to die in our place.

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

I could be wrong, but I believe that anyone who believes they are or even can follow God's laws perfectly in any area of life is greatly deceived.

The post is outstanding. I believe that I learned something in that it is impossible to lead a perfect life despite the best of intentions. I thank the Lord that He died for our sins, understands our spiritual shortcomings and stands beside us and guides us on our life's journey in this troubled and twisted world. Every time I read one of your post I feel better about myself. I thank you for sharing your thoughts on this and other matters.

 

[Jamal]

So you are saying that if a Godly Christian is left by a spouse who is not a follower of Christ that this would be SIN?

I'm pointing out that someone who isn't really following God is wishing to find excuses in the Bible to justify her sins. If Paul were divorced, her interpretation wouldn't be that his wife left him, it would be that divorce is fine with God and she'd accuse me of assuming Paul was innocent in the divorce.

You are so very off the rails on this that it's nearly impossible to confront. You have taken from context one kernel of what was said and based your opinions of their beliefs without hearing the words that were said, seeing the point that was made, or growing from the opportunity to see things in a way other than you normally do.

I haven't taken anything out of context. She was proposing hypotheticals, with the presumption that they are possibly the case, to blunt biblical opposition to fornication and divorce. Paul wasn't married and Mary didn't raise Jesus alone. Period. God deliberately and willfully chose a woman who was betrothed to a man who would be there the entire time Jesus was growing up. It wasn't an accident. And, it's totally out of character and contrary to how God used Paul for Paul to have been married.

What you seem to be missing is her presumption that these these hypotheticals are possible, and therefor the Bible's opposition to fornciation and divorce are blunted, by her interpretation, just as surely as if her scenarios really happened. To wit, Paul could have just go bored of his wife so he divorced her. Therefor God is okay with divorce for boredom.

 

[Jamal]

You seem to have a fascination with fornication.

Another poster was trying to soft sell fornication. Should I not use the word fornication because it's direct?

 

[Lynx]

Jamal: First, I have read every thread and I can't see anywhere anyone was "trying to soft sell fornication."

Second, you sound so much like a Pharisee that I had to check and make sure my time machine had not been stolen. You are seeing only what you want to see, avoiding or denying anything that does not fit your opinion, making some frankly quite wild assumptions based on your opinion... and then castigating people based on your assumptions.

Jamal in the Bible Disgustion... er, Bible Discussion Forum people put each other down, insult each other, yell at each other freely. Here we don't do that. If you intend to stay in this forum would you please participate in threads in the spirit in which the threads were started?

Here it is a bit more bluntly: If we wanted a Bible Discussion Forum shouting match we would have gone to the Bible Discussion Forum. There is a reason we have not gone there, and we WANT TO KEEP IT OUT OF HERE! Thank you in advance for your understanding.

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

I'm pointing out that someone who isn't really following God is wishing to find excuses in the Bible to justify her sins. If Paul were divorced, her interpretation wouldn't be that his wife left him, it would be that divorce is fine with God and she'd accuse me of assuming Paul was innocent in the divorce.

I'm not sure who you are talking about here, but Seoul's non-believing husband abandoned her. She may be divorced but it was through no sin of her own. No one here feels that divorce is fine with God. God hates divorce. SeoulSearch hates divorce. I certainly hate divorce. I'd venture to say that God, Seoul AND I all three hate divorce even more than you do.

 

[Jamal]

Jamal: First, I have read every thread and I can't see anywhere anyone was "trying to soft sell fornication."

"Would people be a little bit less hesitant to criticize single parents if they knew that Jesus Himself had been part of a single-parent household?"

I have never in all my life met a person, read on the internet, etc. anyone who is the least bit critical of any single mother who ended up in that circumstance through no fault of her own. On the contrary, I and others have nothing but compassion for such people. So, when someone argues that if people knew Jesus grew up in a single-parent home (and arguing that this is a possibility, not just a hypothetical, although we know it to be false), that they might be less critical of single mothers, I can only take that to be a call for people to be less critical of immoral choices that often result in single-motherhood. Because, that immorality is the only thing some people are critical of, while other people are supporters of that immorality.

I've never heard anyone be critical of women who are single mothers through no fault of their own, but I see all the time people using dishonest tactics: Bait-and-switch, misdirection, etc. Like maybe if I knew Jesus grew up in a single-parent home, I wouldn't speak negatively of a welfare queen producing babies while on welfare and with no chance of a father being in their children's lives.

Second, you sound so much like a Pharisee that I had to check and make sure my time machine had not been stolen. You are seeing only what you want to see, avoiding or denying anything that does not fit your opinion, making some frankly quite wild assumptions based on your opinion... and then castigating people based on your assumptions.

Assumptions? As she was speaking against a criticism that implicitly exists by her statements, it's not possible to take literally what she was pointing to (single motherhood, per se) because there's no criticism of that. That leaves fornication as the real subject of her argument.

Further supporting that my reading is reasonable is her speculation that God left out details like Paul was once married. And, topping it all off with, "I love little details like this. For me, it brings God just a little bit closer. " It brings God closer to her to assume that God sets up dysfunctional relationships or doesn't think something like a divorce by an Apostle is worth mentioning? Why are you critical of me, but I can't be critical of what she said?