Christian Contradictions I Love! (Who Knows The Most About Marriage...)
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1. Jamal, the fact that you claim to follow all of God's laws within marriage is in fact, hypothetical... because it is not possible.
2. You have no way of knowing that Paul was never married or that Mary did not have to raise Jesus alone at some point. As another poster pointed out, Paul was a member of a religious group that required marriage as part of its membership. While this doesn't prove he was married, it doesn't mean he wasn't married either.
At the cross, Jesus assigned his disciple Mark to take care of Mary. Presumably, it was also because Joseph was not there to do so. We have no idea how long Joseph was gone.
I am certainly not proclaiming any absolutes. If you choose to believe they are not at all possible, however, then that is also your choice. And nowhere in my posts did I ever somehow defend fornication.
I know you are someone who is going to believe what he is going to believe, as will I.
Someday you will die, just as much as I will. When we are both standing before God, I'm sure He will give us both the answers. And as I asked before, please bring your wife when teaching us all about marriage because you insist on setting yourself up as an authority on the subject.
I would like to ask her a few questions. I'm assuming that if you believe you follow marriage principles perfectly, you believe your wife does as well. I would be greatly interested in speaking to her and finding out what it's like.
2. You have no way of knowing that Paul was never married or that Mary did not have to raise Jesus alone at some point. As another poster pointed out, Paul was a member of a religious group that required marriage as part of its membership. While this doesn't prove he was married, it doesn't mean he wasn't married either.
At the cross, Jesus assigned his disciple Mark to take care of Mary. Presumably, it was also because Joseph was not there to do so. We have no idea how long Joseph was gone.
I am certainly not proclaiming any absolutes. If you choose to believe they are not at all possible, however, then that is also your choice. And nowhere in my posts did I ever somehow defend fornication.
I know you are someone who is going to believe what he is going to believe, as will I.
Someday you will die, just as much as I will. When we are both standing before God, I'm sure He will give us both the answers. And as I asked before, please bring your wife when teaching us all about marriage because you insist on setting yourself up as an authority on the subject.
I would like to ask her a few questions. I'm assuming that if you believe you follow marriage principles perfectly, you believe your wife does as well. I would be greatly interested in speaking to her and finding out what it's like.
Thanks, Roh. 
There are times when I'm better at letting things pass than others. I realize I won't change Jamal's mind, as he will not change mine.
I just have to remember that what he thinks of me and says about me, even if it is untrue, is of no consequence.
I do, however, stand by my original statements in that I request that Jamal bring his wife here and counsel us as a couple, as he so insists on teaching us all what is right and what is wrong.
There are times when I'm better at letting things pass than others. I realize I won't change Jamal's mind, as he will not change mine.
I just have to remember that what he thinks of me and says about me, even if it is untrue, is of no consequence.
I do, however, stand by my original statements in that I request that Jamal bring his wife here and counsel us as a couple, as he so insists on teaching us all what is right and what is wrong.
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Thanks, Roh.
There are times when I'm better at letting things pass than others. I realize I won't change Jamal's mind, as he will not change mine.
I just have to remember that what he thinks of me and says about me, even if it is untrue, is of no consequence.
There are times when I'm better at letting things pass than others. I realize I won't change Jamal's mind, as he will not change mine.
I just have to remember that what he thinks of me and says about me, even if it is untrue, is of no consequence.
I think you must start a thread - 'To what extent should one defend himself/herself? Whether emotionally/physically.'
The fact that you want to pretend that the leadership in the New Testament are low class, and that even God himself wanted to set an example of a single-parent family with Mary and Jesus, is disturbing to anyone not drinking kool-aid.
There's nothing in the Bible that says pharisees had to be married. On the contrary, Paul maintained he was pharisee even when we know he wasn't married.
Joseph was still around when Jesus was 12, and may have been around until Jesus was 30. So, no, Jesus wasn't raised by a single mom.
The overwhelming cause of divorce and single-parenthood is fornication. And, you want to fantasize that a lot of that was going on in the New Testament church, at the highest levels. You want to bring God closer to you by robbing him of his righteousness.
There's nothing in the Bible that says pharisees had to be married. On the contrary, Paul maintained he was pharisee even when we know he wasn't married.
Joseph was still around when Jesus was 12, and may have been around until Jesus was 30. So, no, Jesus wasn't raised by a single mom.
The overwhelming cause of divorce and single-parenthood is fornication. And, you want to fantasize that a lot of that was going on in the New Testament church, at the highest levels. You want to bring God closer to you by robbing him of his righteousness.
Notice your own words, "MAY HAVE BEEN." Yes, that's exactly the point... the fact that none of us truly knows. It could have happened either way. We'll know when we get to heaven. You have no way of making an absolute statement.
As for the rest of your accusations, I've already said what I've said. Think as you wish, because you will choose to do so anyway.
Are you not robbing God of righteousness by claiming you follow His laws of marriage perfectly? By doing so, you make the very sacrifice of Jesus on the cross unneeded, null, and void. If you wish to tell God you don't need His salvation because you are able to follow His laws perfectly while others are failures, that is your own business between God and yourself.
You surely must also realize... that the measure of grace you show to others will be poured back to you as well, several times over.
When you are needing such in your own life, will there be any for you to receive?
As for the rest of your accusations, I've already said what I've said. Think as you wish, because you will choose to do so anyway.
Are you not robbing God of righteousness by claiming you follow His laws of marriage perfectly? By doing so, you make the very sacrifice of Jesus on the cross unneeded, null, and void. If you wish to tell God you don't need His salvation because you are able to follow His laws perfectly while others are failures, that is your own business between God and yourself.
You surely must also realize... that the measure of grace you show to others will be poured back to you as well, several times over.
When you are needing such in your own life, will there be any for you to receive?
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We truly know that Joseph was still around when Jesus was twelve, almost a man. That alone shows that Mary didn't raise Jesus alone. And, we have NO REASON to think Joseph wasn't around a number of years longer. You don't assume things out of whole cloth to try to make a case for something. Without affirmative evidence, you have nothing.
I'm not claiming to do anything perfectly. I'm objecting to you fantasizing that the early church leadership, and even God, are as messed up as even the most struggling among us. Pastors are to be blameless, let alone an Apostle. And, while you and Disney might think it's the coolest thing to make single-parent homes look normal, it's a bad example to set for others.
I'm not claiming to do anything perfectly. I'm objecting to you fantasizing that the early church leadership, and even God, are as messed up as even the most struggling among us. Pastors are to be blameless, let alone an Apostle. And, while you and Disney might think it's the coolest thing to make single-parent homes look normal, it's a bad example to set for others.
1. I never said that that Jesus was absolutely raised in a single-parent household. I am simply saying we don't know either way. You can't accuse me of assuming something without affirmative evidence when you have none for your statement as well. Yes, Joseph was there until Jesus was at least 12 years old. And nothing more is said of him after that.
2. Please give me my direct quote in which I said that single parent homes are the coolest thing. The Bible does, however, teach us to have compassion for others, even those who are in different situations than we are in.
Interestingly, you bring up Disney... I am certainly not condoning the world of Disney but I can't think of a Disney movie line in which the single-parent family was brought about by divorce, but rather, the death of a parent. Apparently you are condemning those whose spouses have died as well? I'm not sure why you ignore the fact that there are several other reasons in the world for single-parent families... a major one being death due to things such as war, illness, and murder.
3. Some single-parent familes are adult who choose not to marry but adopt children on their own. God tells us to look after orphans, and I truly believe He blesses someone who chooses to do so even if they have not found the right marriage partner. I myself am adopted and believe it surely would have been better to be adopted by a loving single parent than stay in my orphanage if a loving couple had not adopted me first.
I have great compassion for single parent families. But I was not raised in one--my parents have been married nearly 50 years. Nor do I have a single-parent family myself, as I have no children. You seem to assume I am "glorifying" certain things for my own benefit, which is obviously untrue.
I'm not sure why you are so fixated on certain subject, but I guess all you want to talk about are those issues according to your own point of view and nothing else. For instance, what of my request to bring your wife along with you here? I have many questions I'd like to ask her that I would not ask a married Christian man.
I admire Markum for saying that you must have a burden in your heart for fornication, but all I see is a fixation, and usually people who fixate on one subject and talk about it repeatedly have a close personal association with the subject. This does not particularly meaning participation, but rather, the person fixated on it has probably been deeply hurt in a close and personal way by the subject matter, such as someone close to you who broke up a family through fornication.
This may or may not be the case for you... but either way, I find your points of view... unique... and do wish you the best.
2. Please give me my direct quote in which I said that single parent homes are the coolest thing. The Bible does, however, teach us to have compassion for others, even those who are in different situations than we are in.
Interestingly, you bring up Disney... I am certainly not condoning the world of Disney but I can't think of a Disney movie line in which the single-parent family was brought about by divorce, but rather, the death of a parent. Apparently you are condemning those whose spouses have died as well? I'm not sure why you ignore the fact that there are several other reasons in the world for single-parent families... a major one being death due to things such as war, illness, and murder.
3. Some single-parent familes are adult who choose not to marry but adopt children on their own. God tells us to look after orphans, and I truly believe He blesses someone who chooses to do so even if they have not found the right marriage partner. I myself am adopted and believe it surely would have been better to be adopted by a loving single parent than stay in my orphanage if a loving couple had not adopted me first.
I have great compassion for single parent families. But I was not raised in one--my parents have been married nearly 50 years. Nor do I have a single-parent family myself, as I have no children. You seem to assume I am "glorifying" certain things for my own benefit, which is obviously untrue.
I'm not sure why you are so fixated on certain subject, but I guess all you want to talk about are those issues according to your own point of view and nothing else. For instance, what of my request to bring your wife along with you here? I have many questions I'd like to ask her that I would not ask a married Christian man.
I admire Markum for saying that you must have a burden in your heart for fornication, but all I see is a fixation, and usually people who fixate on one subject and talk about it repeatedly have a close personal association with the subject. This does not particularly meaning participation, but rather, the person fixated on it has probably been deeply hurt in a close and personal way by the subject matter, such as someone close to you who broke up a family through fornication.
This may or may not be the case for you... but either way, I find your points of view... unique... and do wish you the best.
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P.S. I think you are misunderstanding in that you think I am trying to condone or glorify certain situations. This is certainly not the case. I am merely saying that it's possible many of the people we look up to in the Bible have been through their share of challenges, giving us all the more reason to rely on God to get us through our own.
As for demanding that all spiritual leaders be blameless... I understand the passage in Titus but I also believe that God chooses people despite their blamelessness. After all, Paul had formerly murdered Christians... David and Moses murdered while actively believing in God... Abraham was willing to see his wife given away to other men--twice--if it would save his own neck. Gideon was the least and the smallest of whom God could have chosen at the time. Matthew was a tax collector.
I myself am very much a sinner as well. And yet, I know, God has chosen and has a plan for me, and one for you as well.
As for demanding that all spiritual leaders be blameless... I understand the passage in Titus but I also believe that God chooses people despite their blamelessness. After all, Paul had formerly murdered Christians... David and Moses murdered while actively believing in God... Abraham was willing to see his wife given away to other men--twice--if it would save his own neck. Gideon was the least and the smallest of whom God could have chosen at the time. Matthew was a tax collector.
I myself am very much a sinner as well. And yet, I know, God has chosen and has a plan for me, and one for you as well.
C
Let the record show that when faced with opportunities to end this conversation peacefully, particularly by responding to Markum's posts (far more noble than my own), but also by responding to my less personally impassioned and more peacefully compassionate posts (yes, the latter ones) that Jamal has chosen rather to stir dissent, create strife, and provoke.
I do not take issue with individuals holding differing opinions. Much enlightenment can come from healthy disagreement and calm discussion. It appears that calm discussion was not the goal; this I take issue with.
I shall say no more on this thread.
I do not take issue with individuals holding differing opinions. Much enlightenment can come from healthy disagreement and calm discussion. It appears that calm discussion was not the goal; this I take issue with.
I shall say no more on this thread.
"I tuned in to hear the news
I don't want your point of view
If that's the best that you can do
Then something's missing
Experts on whatever side
You plug your ears, you scream your lines
You claim to have an open mind
But nobody's listening
Don't you think we're smarter than this?
Everybody take a breath
Why are all your faces red?
We're missing all the words you said
You don't have to yell
Draw your lines and choose your side
Cause many things are worth the fight
But louder doesn't make you right
You don't have to yell
No you don't have to yell"
Jamal will be back. He has to have the last word, or he can't feel he has won the argument.
I don't want your point of view
If that's the best that you can do
Then something's missing
Experts on whatever side
You plug your ears, you scream your lines
You claim to have an open mind
But nobody's listening
Don't you think we're smarter than this?
Everybody take a breath
Why are all your faces red?
We're missing all the words you said
You don't have to yell
Draw your lines and choose your side
Cause many things are worth the fight
But louder doesn't make you right
You don't have to yell
No you don't have to yell"
Jamal will be back. He has to have the last word, or he can't feel he has won the argument.
That's the trouble with city folk coming out here. They think all the wildlife is cute. About a third of our time is spent keeping them from getting clobbered by a mountain lion or bear.
There once was a Blonde from the city
Who met (what she thought was) a kitty
She gave it a pat
And said, "Nice little cat!"
...They buried her clothes, out of pity
There once was a Blonde from the city
Who met (what she thought was) a kitty
She gave it a pat
And said, "Nice little cat!"
...They buried her clothes, out of pity
All this hate, Lord, Kumbaya.
Sheer weight, Lord, Kumbaya.
Silly them, Lord, Kumbaya.
Oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
They argue so much, Lord, Kumbaya.
All over a preconceived hunch, Lord, Kumbaya.
Had your dinner, Lord? Kumbaya.
Oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
These trolls, Lord, Kumbaya.
Cause many pitfalls, Lord, Kumbaya.
Banish them, Lord, Kumbaya.
Oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
Sheer weight, Lord, Kumbaya.
Silly them, Lord, Kumbaya.
Oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
They argue so much, Lord, Kumbaya.
All over a preconceived hunch, Lord, Kumbaya.
Had your dinner, Lord? Kumbaya.
Oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
These trolls, Lord, Kumbaya.
Cause many pitfalls, Lord, Kumbaya.
Banish them, Lord, Kumbaya.
Oh, Lord, Kumbaya.