let's talk liquor

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Grace-Like-Rain

Grace-Like-Rain

Senior Member
#21
Sep 6, 2013
4,430
117
63
#21
Stephen63 said:

You may think I'm just trying to manipulate this issue, but we all know we have no way of knowing the odds of actually doing such a thing. Are our private beliefs so important that we can risk gambling with other people's lives? Just like Jesus, shouldn's our thoughts & concerns be about "others"?
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All things in moderation, including accepting responsibility for everyone else. It's a good thing, but how far should we take it? Jesus himself made wine for all of his friends at a wedding celebration. Did he consider whether or not anyone at the party had a drinking problem, or might one day have one? Or whether anyone there might drink too much? You can stretch it as much as you want, but the Bible often says not to become drunk, and never once says not to drink. So making it a "sin" to drink is indeed adding to scripture.

Each should follow their own conviction about drinking.
 
T

The_Wanderer

Banned
#22
Aug 26, 2014
392
4
0
#22
Donkeyfish07 said:
Big difference between having a drink and drunkenness. Drunkenness does you absolutely no good. Can't be sober and vigilant when your wasted. I know me personally, my normal ability to resist temptation may as well not even exist if I allow myself to indulge in hard liquor.
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I find you can't even really be sober and vigilant when you have a "buzz" from alcohol. It lowers inhibitions and can make you drop your defenses. I know this from experience.

Another good verse about this is Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#24
Aug 13, 2014
24,914
8,167
113
#24
This topic again? :p

Could some helpful moderator sweep this back over to the Bible Discussions forum? They are leaking threads again.
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#26
Aug 13, 2014
24,914
8,167
113
#26
For some reason I'm reminded of an old poem, "The Lay of Ancient Rome."

He often went on sprees,
And said on starting homus,

"Hic labor - opus est,
Oh, where's my - hic-hic - domus?"
 
L

lav

Guest
#27
#27
i definitely have issues with it. i wasn't the type to drink every day or even regularly... maybe monthly(?), if that. but when i did i really tied one on.

binge drinker = alcoholic

this is my 110th day sober and i'm not going back. i still have nightmares that i ended my sobriety, but i will never drink again. while i'm sleeping it's pretty hard to control that, but it's all good cause i don't sleepwalk or do any of that. i pretty much just stay planted on the mattress unless i have a sudden urge for chips.


(also, there were definitely times where i drank more than monthly... but it was never every single day. always binges. sometimes many binges. for a while i wouldn't buy alcohol and would only let my mother give me one glass of wine, or make a screwdriver... but even then i craved more and knew it was a problem. i really liked it when she made the screwdrivers strong!)

i go to aa now, and like it there. i know my sobriety hasn't been very long, but i've made it past the first 90 days and i know i won't go back to having even one sip of alcohol. ever.
 
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jsr1221

jsr1221

Senior Member
#28
Jul 7, 2013
4,265
77
48
#28
Scripture talks about drinking in moderation. Some do. Some don't. I don't see what the big deal of alcohol is myself. I grew up seeing all the negative side effects.
 
L

lav

Guest
#29
#29
also my dad died of alcoholism and was absent in my life because of it. i went to his funeral on my senior prom and hadn't been in his life before that either. he died one year after i found him (a year after i'd started looking for him.) i only saw and remembered him sober that day i showed up unannounced at his doorstep. the next time we planned to get together he was completely wasted. a year after i located him he passed.
 
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L

lav

Guest
#30
#30
lav said:
also my dad died of alcoholism and was absent in my life because of it. i went to his funeral on my senior prom and hadn't been in his life before that either. he died one year after i found him (two years after i'd started looking for him.) i only saw and remembered him sober the day i showed up unannounced at his doorstep. the next time we planned to get together he was completely wasted. a year after i located him he passed.
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sorry, that was a confusing way to say that. i started looking for him when i was sixteen, found him a year later when i was seventeen and he died a year after that (when i was eighteen.)
 
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L

lav

Guest
#31
#31
i've forgiven him.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#32
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#32
Grace-Like-Rain said:
All things in moderation, including accepting responsibility for everyone else. It's a good thing, but how far should we take it? Jesus himself made wine for all of his friends at a wedding celebration. Did he consider whether or not anyone at the party had a drinking problem, or might one day have one? Or whether anyone there might drink too much? You can stretch it as much as you want, but the Bible often says not to become drunk, and never once says not to drink. So making it a "sin" to drink is indeed adding to scripture.
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I don't know what scripture I stretched, but since you brought it up, let's talk about it..... fair enuf?

Ok, you've established the fact that it's wrong to stretch the scripture for personal interpretation....let's run with that then.

What I'm hearing is that, according to those that believe it's ok to drink, that Jesus performed a miracle & turned water into alcoholic wine so that those at the feast could get "well drunk" (bible quote).

Let's look at the scriptures to see then what, according to their interpretation, Jesus did.

John 2:6 (NLT) [SUP]6 [/SUP]Standing nearby were six stone water jars, used for Jewish ceremonial washing. Each could hold twenty to thirty gallons.

So, Jesus, perfect & Holy as He is, turned ceremonial water to alcoholic wine so that people at the feast could get drunk.

No?!? Here's a wedding feast with sinning Jews, many people, all walks of life there (you know how family is, lol), & Jesus turns ceremonial water into 120 to 180 GALLONS of alcoholic wine! With that much wine, somebody's gonna get drunk, right?

If that is true, this means Jesus contributed to the drunkedness of several people, & since drunkedness is a sin, so is contributing to it. You might as well take a wino up the road so he can get wasted. Contributing to sin is sin.

Now, according to those that believe & tell others Jesus made alcoholic wine to drink, Jesus cannot possibly be the sinless Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world.

IMO, there are "christians"(only God knows), who are doing what's right in their own eyes (happened to Israel), who didn't count the cost of twisting the scripture & made Jesus what the scribes & pharisees have already accused Him of being....a winebibber & a sinner.

I would call that "stretching it a bit", wouldn't you?

Now, I don't think everybody on here thinks like that....but..... thinking something similar to it is just as bad.

Just sayin'..... You can talk about me, call me what U want..... but don't talk about my Lord & Savior like that.... I find it very offensive..... your Heavenly Father may also....
 
Roh_Chris

Roh_Chris

Senior Member
#33
Jun 15, 2014
4,728
58
48
#33
Here's some food for thought folks -

Do we have to start yet another thread on this?

We all know that nothing good comes out of discussions like this. We only sow bitterness through such heated debates.
 
L

lav

Guest
#34
#34
just wanted to say i personally didn't mean to come on too strong or cause a heated debate. that's just the negative aspects i've experienced with it in my life... and for me the negative has far outweighed the positive.
 
Grace-Like-Rain

Grace-Like-Rain

Senior Member
#35
Sep 6, 2013
4,430
117
63
#35
Stephen63 said:


Just sayin'..... You can talk about me, call me what U want..... but don't talk about my Lord & Savior like that.... I find it very offensive..... your Heavenly Father may also....
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I'm very confused about this entire post.

lav said:
just wanted to say i personally didn't mean to come on too strong or cause a heated debate. that's just the negative aspects i've experienced with it in my life... and for me the negative has far outweighed the positive.
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Lav, you didn't come on too strong at all. Thank you for sharing your story. I'm so sorry about your father, but happy that you've made such wonderful progress. Keep it up!
 
Nautilus

Nautilus

Senior Member
#36
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#36
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#37
Aug 13, 2014
24,914
8,167
113
#37
Roh_Chris said:
Here's some food for thought folks -

Do we have to start yet another thread on this?

We all know that nothing good comes out of discussions like this. We only sow bitterness through such heated debates.
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That's the FUN part of it! :D :D

Seriously though, could we please sweep this thread back to the Bible Discussions forum where it belongs. These things are proliferating worse than rabbits, and if you let it get a foothold in this forum soon there will be dozens of them.

Nautilus said:
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die
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Shakespeare is NOT the bible. :p He did say one of my favorite quotes though. "First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."
 
JimJimmers

JimJimmers

Senior Member
#38
Apr 26, 2012
2,584
70
48
#38
Stephen63 said:
I don't know what scripture I stretched, but since you brought it up, let's talk about it..... fair enuf?

Ok, you've established the fact that it's wrong to stretch the scripture for personal interpretation....let's run with that then.

What I'm hearing is that, according to those that believe it's ok to drink, that Jesus performed a miracle & turned water into alcoholic wine so that those at the feast could get "well drunk" (bible quote).

Let's look at the scriptures to see then what, according to their interpretation, Jesus did.

John 2:6 (NLT) [SUP]6 [/SUP]Standing nearby were six stone water jars, used for Jewish ceremonial washing. Each could hold twenty to thirty gallons.

So, Jesus, perfect & Holy as He is, turned ceremonial water to alcoholic wine so that people at the feast could get drunk.

No?!? Here's a wedding feast with sinning Jews, many people, all walks of life there (you know how family is, lol), & Jesus turns ceremonial water into 120 to 180 GALLONS of alcoholic wine! With that much wine, somebody's gonna get drunk, right?

If that is true, this means Jesus contributed to the drunkedness of several people, & since drunkedness is a sin, so is contributing to it. You might as well take a wino up the road so he can get wasted. Contributing to sin is sin.

Now, according to those that believe & tell others Jesus made alcoholic wine to drink, Jesus cannot possibly be the sinless Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world.

IMO, there are "christians"(only God knows), who are doing what's right in their own eyes (happened to Israel), who didn't count the cost of twisting the scripture & made Jesus what the scribes & pharisees have already accused Him of being....a winebibber & a sinner.

I would call that "stretching it a bit", wouldn't you?

Now, I don't think everybody on here thinks like that....but..... thinking something similar to it is just as bad.

Just sayin'..... You can talk about me, call me what U want..... but don't talk about my Lord & Savior like that.... I find it very offensive..... your Heavenly Father may also....
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I wish I could say that this is the longest post I've seen that had nothing to do with the question, but unfortunately it isn't.
 
ArtsieSteph

ArtsieSteph

Senior Member
#39
Apr 1, 2014
6,194
1,319
113
33
Arizona
#39
I have to say that I do not approve of alcohol. Not that people who drink it are horrible or whatever people say, I just know that if I ever drank for recreation I would become an alcoholic. I had an alcoholic grandfather that had it sort of disintegrate their life, so I would be hard pressed to truly respect someone who drank.

Maybe that's a personal problem with me I don't know.

Is it just me or is it near impossible to find a good Christian man who doesn't drink or smoke....?
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#40
#40
We can find silver bullet, impossible to get around verses against being drunk.

Romans 13:13
Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy.

1 Cor 5:11
But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

Galatians 5:21
envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:18
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,
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Can anyone post two or more verses that are silver bullet verses against drinking one drop of alcohol?
Verses that are clear, overt and beyond question against drinking ONE drop.

Serve up your silver bullet verses.
If you can't find two or three, maybe one shouldn't serve up such strong opinions?

 
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