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J
I didn't have near enough time to read all of the replies to this thread, but I wanted to say a couple things anyway.
In 1 Corinthians 1:10 it says, "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."
Now, it seems that perhaps you (and a lot of people who posted here) have something against Mormons just because they are Mormon, not because of any tangible, real knowledge of them. I don't know the first thing about them myself, but I do know that quite a few of them are, in fact, born again Christians. Most likely a lot of them call themselves Mormons just for the sole reason that they were raised that way, when maybe they don't believe or even know all there is to know about Mormonism. Anyway, back to my point, the verse above clearly states that there should be "no divisions among you", and what are Mormons (and 99% of Christianity) doing? Dividing themselves from other Christians because of some little trivial fact or figure (for the most part) that they have a disagreement on. That's wrong in God's eyes, and it is extremely counterproductive in the Church; if the adversary can get Christians divided up into these tiny little cliques, he can destroy them individually. It's the classic divide and conquer strategy. What I mean to say is, please don't you divide yourself from this guy (or anyone else) because he's Mormon (or any similar reason). The important thing is that he be born again; all else follows.
-Jon
In 1 Corinthians 1:10 it says, "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."
Now, it seems that perhaps you (and a lot of people who posted here) have something against Mormons just because they are Mormon, not because of any tangible, real knowledge of them. I don't know the first thing about them myself, but I do know that quite a few of them are, in fact, born again Christians. Most likely a lot of them call themselves Mormons just for the sole reason that they were raised that way, when maybe they don't believe or even know all there is to know about Mormonism. Anyway, back to my point, the verse above clearly states that there should be "no divisions among you", and what are Mormons (and 99% of Christianity) doing? Dividing themselves from other Christians because of some little trivial fact or figure (for the most part) that they have a disagreement on. That's wrong in God's eyes, and it is extremely counterproductive in the Church; if the adversary can get Christians divided up into these tiny little cliques, he can destroy them individually. It's the classic divide and conquer strategy. What I mean to say is, please don't you divide yourself from this guy (or anyone else) because he's Mormon (or any similar reason). The important thing is that he be born again; all else follows.
-Jon
Thanks Jon.
B
I like your signature JJAC, it reminds me of something I sent to my best friend:
A best friend is someone who will grab a shovel and follow you out without a word, when you show up at their door with a dead body.
He sent this one back: A friend will bail yyou out of jail, but a best friend will be sitting right next to you, saying "THAT WAS AWESOME!!!"
A best friend is someone who will grab a shovel and follow you out without a word, when you show up at their door with a dead body.
He sent this one back: A friend will bail yyou out of jail, but a best friend will be sitting right next to you, saying "THAT WAS AWESOME!!!"
I find this truly amusing how you can not know the first thing about them and deem most of them saved! If they are born against Christians then why do Mormons hold the belief that Joseph Smith saw God?
That goes against scripture which states
“But He said, ‘You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!’"
(Exodus 33:20)
"God...who alone is immortal and who lives
in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen
or can see."
(1Timothy 6:15,16)
Also 1 John 4:12 and several other verses.
Should Christian's in Muslim countries who are murdered for their faith just stay Muslim because they are ignorant of what Muslim's believe. We will all be held accountable for what we believe in. It's not sufficient to say it's not their fault because they just don't know what they profess to believe.
That's just it, Mormons preach a very different Gospel. Historical Mormon belief is that salvation is of works and not of grace. This was a problem in the days of Paul when he wrote the book of Galatians and there are some very important passages we can glean understand here. First, we have Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! What takes place in Mormonism? Joseph Smith sees angels and sees God the father which scripture teaches cannot happen. Second, we see Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. I have been in many discussions with Mormons that state good works will save even though Paul states that those who will be justified by the law are under a curse! We see the verse in Ephesians 2:8-9 which talks about salvation be a result of grace as a free gift, however in the book of 2nd Nephi we see a very different outlook on this. 2 Nephi 25:23 which talks about how salvation is after all we can do. Meaning, when Christ died on the cross he only finished what we started, but that is clearly a contradiction to what scripture believes. All in all, this is not just a small issue that we face, the very truth of who God is and the very core characteristic of what his word rests upon are the issue. How can you love and know God, worshiping him and call upon his name when you don't even know who he is?
Once again, there is a problem with this statement. How can those who don't understand the true God of the bible, instead believe a perverted Gospel be our brothers? How can they be included in God's sheep when the apostle John in his 2nd epistle wrote about how we shouldn't even greet those who don't bring the true teaching of Christ? We must, as it is taught in the book of Jude saying Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. Not be blinded and follow mindless the perversion of Mormonism, but be seekers of the truth.
That goes against scripture which states
“But He said, ‘You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!’"
(Exodus 33:20)
"God...who alone is immortal and who lives
in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen
or can see."
(1Timothy 6:15,16)
Also 1 John 4:12 and several other verses.
Should Christian's in Muslim countries who are murdered for their faith just stay Muslim because they are ignorant of what Muslim's believe. We will all be held accountable for what we believe in. It's not sufficient to say it's not their fault because they just don't know what they profess to believe.
That's just it, Mormons preach a very different Gospel. Historical Mormon belief is that salvation is of works and not of grace. This was a problem in the days of Paul when he wrote the book of Galatians and there are some very important passages we can glean understand here. First, we have Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! What takes place in Mormonism? Joseph Smith sees angels and sees God the father which scripture teaches cannot happen. Second, we see Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. I have been in many discussions with Mormons that state good works will save even though Paul states that those who will be justified by the law are under a curse! We see the verse in Ephesians 2:8-9 which talks about salvation be a result of grace as a free gift, however in the book of 2nd Nephi we see a very different outlook on this. 2 Nephi 25:23 which talks about how salvation is after all we can do. Meaning, when Christ died on the cross he only finished what we started, but that is clearly a contradiction to what scripture believes. All in all, this is not just a small issue that we face, the very truth of who God is and the very core characteristic of what his word rests upon are the issue. How can you love and know God, worshiping him and call upon his name when you don't even know who he is?
Once again, there is a problem with this statement. How can those who don't understand the true God of the bible, instead believe a perverted Gospel be our brothers? How can they be included in God's sheep when the apostle John in his 2nd epistle wrote about how we shouldn't even greet those who don't bring the true teaching of Christ? We must, as it is taught in the book of Jude saying Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. Not be blinded and follow mindless the perversion of Mormonism, but be seekers of the truth.
J
First of all, I did not say that most Mormons are saved. What I said was, "quite a few of them" are. You might want to get your facts straight before going on another rant. No offense meant.
On to your next point, many people in the Bible, including Moses and Job, "saw God". ("I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." - Job 42:5 | "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect." - Genesis 17:1) Most of those references refer to the Glory of God, or some physical manifestation of God, so I really don't think you have a valid point there. I'm not here to argue the accuracy of Joseph Smith's testimony; I don't know enough about him to debate it, but I can see where that part could have happened as he recorded it.
You say that we "will all be held accountable for what we believe", then go on to state that faith is by Grace, not works. If we will be held accountable for anything, then faith is of works, and not Grace. I don't know if that was an error on your part or not, but it is incorrect.
What John is talking about in that Scripture you mentioned, is that people who preach a perverted gospel should not be allowed to teach, or cause contention, in the Church. Do you think that God expects every born again one to just magically get everything right? No, and, in fact, in Acts 18:26: "And he (Apollos) began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly." Aquila and Priscilla didn't avoid Apollos, nor did they bash him, they took him in and "expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly." It doesn't matter what gospel people preach/believe; if they are of the Household of Christ, they are brethren, to be taught and built up. Also, I understand what you said about not blindly following some doctrine, but earnestly seeking the truth. What I'm saying is that the well established members of the Church should not shun those who are seeking. Maybe you don't understand this, but it is very difficult to break out of something you have been taught your whole life; give them some slack, would you? If someone is diligently seeking the truth, they will find it one way or another. "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand." - Romans 14:4
Well, now that my rant is over, I just want to say thanks for your post; debate can be healthy, though at the end of the day, we, as members of the Church, need to stand united in the service of our Father, not estranging each other through pointless debates.
-Jon
On to your next point, many people in the Bible, including Moses and Job, "saw God". ("I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." - Job 42:5 | "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect." - Genesis 17:1) Most of those references refer to the Glory of God, or some physical manifestation of God, so I really don't think you have a valid point there. I'm not here to argue the accuracy of Joseph Smith's testimony; I don't know enough about him to debate it, but I can see where that part could have happened as he recorded it.
You say that we "will all be held accountable for what we believe", then go on to state that faith is by Grace, not works. If we will be held accountable for anything, then faith is of works, and not Grace. I don't know if that was an error on your part or not, but it is incorrect.
What John is talking about in that Scripture you mentioned, is that people who preach a perverted gospel should not be allowed to teach, or cause contention, in the Church. Do you think that God expects every born again one to just magically get everything right? No, and, in fact, in Acts 18:26: "And he (Apollos) began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly." Aquila and Priscilla didn't avoid Apollos, nor did they bash him, they took him in and "expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly." It doesn't matter what gospel people preach/believe; if they are of the Household of Christ, they are brethren, to be taught and built up. Also, I understand what you said about not blindly following some doctrine, but earnestly seeking the truth. What I'm saying is that the well established members of the Church should not shun those who are seeking. Maybe you don't understand this, but it is very difficult to break out of something you have been taught your whole life; give them some slack, would you? If someone is diligently seeking the truth, they will find it one way or another. "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand." - Romans 14:4
Well, now that my rant is over, I just want to say thanks for your post; debate can be healthy, though at the end of the day, we, as members of the Church, need to stand united in the service of our Father, not estranging each other through pointless debates.
-Jon
V
Blue Angel, what if I told you that the Former Mormons themselves state that Mormonism is not of God, in fact it is more like Satanism. Would you be more willing to accept that? Back in the late 90's early 2000's, there was a lady that came to my church. She was an ex Mormon. She left the Mormon church, and not until a BF who was Christian started explaining things to her, did she start to realize the truth about Mormons.
This is a testimony of another Mormon woman, one who is part of the original Mormon Church:
Ex Mormon: A Mormon Woman and Spousal Abuse
You believe we are mistaken in regards to the Mormon Church, but we are not.
When Mormon Missionaries teach new countries, they start with the Bible, then very quickly move to the Book of Mormon.
They Believe that Jesus is not the only son of God, but also that Lucifer is also the Son of God.
This is chart is also a rundown of some the major differences between the Mainstream Christian church and Mormonism.
Comparison Chart of Mormonism vs. Mainstream Christianity - ReligionFacts
This is a testimony of another Mormon woman, one who is part of the original Mormon Church:
Ex Mormon: A Mormon Woman and Spousal Abuse
You believe we are mistaken in regards to the Mormon Church, but we are not.
When Mormon Missionaries teach new countries, they start with the Bible, then very quickly move to the Book of Mormon.
They Believe that Jesus is not the only son of God, but also that Lucifer is also the Son of God.
This is chart is also a rundown of some the major differences between the Mainstream Christian church and Mormonism.
Comparison Chart of Mormonism vs. Mainstream Christianity - ReligionFacts
V
Sigh, another case where I didn't read all the posts before posting something. Blueangel, since you already determined that Mormonism is not for you, then you probably don't need to read this. However, it would still be a good idea to go ahead and look at the chart, so you can, in the future, know how to handle Mormons who may eventually come and try to witness to you.
Also, anyone else who is confused about the Mormon Church, this would be good for you as well.
Also, anyone else who is confused about the Mormon Church, this would be good for you as well.
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