The seriousness of marriage and divorce.

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jadealexis

Guest
#21
Divorce is ugly hardly amyone takes it serious anymore people like my grandparents who are in their 70s have been married forever it seems. There is a right man right woman out there for everyone we just look in the wrong places you usually we don't trust in God enough to bring aomeone to us some take whoever they can get. I do believe that there may be some exceptions to the rule maybe some people are not meant to marry. God has a purpose for everyone
Sorry for sloppy typing using my phone to chat
 
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Jordache

Guest
#22
Question: how many of you commenting on marriage am divorce have ever been married and divorced. If you haven't, I'd be very careful with the opinions you throw around no matter how biblically based they are. Most of the time, you learn grace by being given grace. If you haven't been in that situation chances are you do jot have the grace to deal with it in complete love.
 
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Jordache

Guest
#23
Question: how many of you commenting on marriage am divorce have ever been married and divorced. If you haven't, I'd be very careful with the opinions you throw around no matter how biblically based they are. Most of the time, you learn grace by being given grace. If you haven't been in that situation chances are you do jot have the grace to deal with it in complete love.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
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#24
I've shown you the scriptures that support my viewpoint. I've seen none to support yours.
Well, the viewpoint that you have taken from the Scriptures you post is unbalanced, unloving and hard...I have no intention of posting any Scriptures, as your 'study' of this subject is (seemingly) still in process, so, I suggest you go and study the Scriptures again and seek the Lord in prayer until you find a viewpoint that reflects the Love and character of God...1John 4v8,16.

If you think that 1 or 2 months is going to give you the answers that you are seeking, you are mistaken...it will take many months, and as I previously said you need to study and meditate upon ALL the revelant Scriptures from Genesis to The Book of Revelation, if you have not already done that, this is what I suggest you do...

Yahweh Shalom...
 
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zaoman32

Guest
#25
Well, the viewpoint that you have taken from the Scriptures you post is unbalanced, unloving and hard...I have no intention of posting any Scriptures, as your 'study' of this subject is (seemingly) still in process, so, I suggest you go and study the Scriptures again and seek the Lord in prayer until you find a viewpoint that reflects the Love and character of God...1John 4v8,16.

If you think that 1 or 2 months is going to give you the answers that you are seeking, you are mistaken...it will take many months, and as I previously said you need to study and meditate upon ALL the revelant Scriptures from Genesis to The Book of Revelation, if you have not already done that, this is what I suggest you do...

Yahweh Shalom...
let's refer to this previous statement made by Jordache

Question: how many of you commenting on marriage am divorce have ever been married and divorced. If you haven't, I'd be very careful with the opinions you throw around no matter how biblically based they are. Most of the time, you learn grace by being given grace. If you haven't been in that situation chances are you do jot have the grace to deal with it in complete love.
jb-sometimes scripture is hard to hear and hard to deal with, I'm not defending anyone and I'm not looking down on anyone, but you need to understand that. God is absolutely love, but that doesn't mean he loves everything we do. God does hate divorce, that much is clear, and if I remember correctly you did state that you went through a divorce, so man to man, divorced man to another, going through what you are you should know exactly why God hates divorce.

Did I want a divorce? I'm ashamed to say it, but absolutely. My now ex-wife was lying to me, and cheated on me several times in the matter of less than a year, I had every right to divorce her and I wanted to. Looking back on it now, it was the worst decision I have ever made. Despite the fact that my wife hurt me with her actions, even before she cheated on me, I found myself in nothing but pain, my heart was literally ripped in half, and even though I felt miserable being with her, when all was said and done, I wished I had fought harder to save my marriage, I wish I had had the forgiveness I needed to keep plugging everyday. Now if you wife divorced you, there's only so much you can do about that, but I know for a fact you feel the hurt, and I know for a fact you are being torn up, and that is why God hates divorce, because He knows that it tears us up inside. Seriously, I'd really like you to contact me if you just need to vent and breathe, I have no other guys I know who are divorced, and I know it's hard, so if you want to contact me, go for it, I will stand with you and pray for you.

Niceguy-I realize you just want to raise peoples awareness on how serious this matter is, and I respect that, you absolutely should, but Jordache is right, if you have never been there, you need to tread very carefully because your bringing up a very high emotional subject for some people. Please handle it with grace.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
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#26
Seriously, I'd really like you to contact me if you just need to vent and breathe, I have no other guys I know who are divorced,
I dealt some time ago with any emotional and mental damage done to me through the divorce (the Lord Jesus and time have healed that), also thanks for your kind offer...likewise, if you want a chat, drop me a PM.

What I took exception to was the OP's (what I thought was a frivilous) interpretation of Scripture, resulting in an unloving, ungracious and hard character being ascribed to God, when, the exact opposite is true! God is wholly on the side of the innocent party and this was to quite a degree lacking in the OP's viewpoint. This hard hearted viewpoint has been bandied about so much on CC forums and I find it so distasteful!

The only way that the OP (niceguyJ) is going to sort this subject out in his own mind is by doing prolonged prayer and study on it, there is NO shortcut to making truth your own.

As a digression, even before I got the 'decree absolute' (the certificate from the courts stating that my actual marriage was over) the Lord had already told me that He already had another wife for me...so I await the fulfillment of the Lord's promise to me.

Yahweh Shalom...
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,958
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#27
Now we know why, when Jesus taught about marriage and divorce, the disciples said, "If this is the way it is, it would be better to never get married!" Jesus said that it was a hard teaching, and for those who can accept it.

But I find it interesting that when Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman at the well and mentioned her 5 ex-husbands and current boyfriend, he spoke about her personal life as fact but yet, didn't make a big deal out of it. His main objective was to reassure her that He was the Messiah.

I've always wondered, if she (and maybe she did but it wasn't recorded) asked Him what she needed to do in order to get her life right, would she have to A. dump the current boyfriend and live alone forever, or B. marry the current boyfriend (or supposedly "correct" man who came along.)

I know this is a serious subject but I do think a lot of believers speak about it as if the majority of us take the subject lightly, and we don't. I don't know too many, if any, divorced Christians who married with the thought of getting divorced. Life, unfortunately, is messy.

To be bluntly honest, having "well-meaning, Biblical Christians" tell me I could never marry again or I would be committing adultery when I was 25 years old made me want to commit suicide (and I eventually did wind up in the hospital for a week--I felt I had no hope and no way out.) Please think about being told that you WILL ALWAYS BE ALONE AND CAN NEVER HAVE A RELATIONSHIP EVER AGAIN. YOU MUST LIVE THE REST OF YOUR LIFE ALONE IN ORDER TO PLEASE GOD, WHO LOVES YOU!!!

At the time, I had no Biblical reasons for my divorce. I didn't consider him to be a complete unbeliever and I had no proof of adultery. It wasn't until a year later that I found out he had had a girlfriend. But at the time, I had nothing. I came home from work one day and half the house was gone. He had moved out without telling me anything. A few weeks later, I got papers in the mail that said, "YOU ARE BEING SUED FOR DIVORCE."

And the good church folk were all to ready to tell me how terrible it is that no one takes marriage seriously, that everyone gives up too easily, that people should try harder (we had tried all we knew to do, including several counselors) and if these weak-willed people should, gasp, remarry, they are nothing but sinful adulterers!! Maybe it's all true in every case. Maybe God really does want me and every other divorced person to be alone the rest of our lives and never remarry (after all, I've pretty much been alone almost all this time, and it's been 13 years.)

But please, don't think we don't take it lightly or that we purposely mock God's commands. In fact, I used to be a lot like this before I got married... a little too judgmental of other people's failures. I have often wondered if one of the reasons my own divorce happened was to smack down my own self-righteous thinking (NOT to say that Niceguy is trying to be self-righteous at all... I just know that in my case, I judged others a little to harshly, I think.) The letter of the law kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Funny how life has a way of teaching you to take your own medicine.
 
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NodMyHeadLikeYeah

Guest
#28
Kim, i can relate...

I will never forget it, i had gone to see a counselor a christian counselor because i was married and found out my husband had multiple girlfriends. I needed to talk to someone because i felt like i was gonna lose it. My plan was never to leave him, i just needed to know how to deal with this.
So i went to this christian counselor and explained to her why i was there, she starts off by saying things like once a cheater always a cheater, and how God wouldn't want me to be unhappy and how the rules on divorce in the bible are outdated and dont apply to us now.

The part of me that was angry wanted to hear those things, but I knew that i knew what she said was totally wrong.

Where was Gods power to change someone in any of that, and where in the world is it in the bible that if your not happy you can get a divorce. I could not believe this christian woman was saying those things. I wonder just how many other people she misled with that garbage.

Having a godly marriage is tough, i say a godly marriage because there are huge diffrences between a godly marriage and a secular one. Having a marriage centered around the lord is not for the weak willed. There are times when your miserable and you cant stand each other, but even in those times your still called to submit and love each other the way christ loves his church.

God is clear how he feels about this subject its us who get in the way and twist things around because we dont like what he says, its us who cant hack it and try to find some kind of way out because things arent going how we thought they would.
 

niceguyJ

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2011
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#29
Pretty much anything I could say at this point is going to be rehash of what I already said. So this might be my last post in the thread, but I'll keep reading. I feel like I said what I wanted to get out there already. If you agree, fine. If you disagree, that's your choice. We each have to make our own don't we?

I do want to say some things first though, in reply to various comments made up there:

I've been studyiing the Bible for years, not months. I've held this view for a long time now. It has never been clearer than it is right now to me. I'm sure I'll come across it again in my studies over the years. I don't see my view changing at this point though. I can't deny what is very clearly in red letters in those verses. My view has only been more cemented as I've studied this particular topic...and especially since I finally get how that one verse that seemed to not quite go along with the other ones does fit in.

Just because I haven't been through a divorce doesn't mean I can't speak to this view and what I feel like scripture is saying is the truth. That logic makes no sense. I've never murdered someone, but I'll also speak out against that. I don't need to have gone through it in order to do so.
I feel I've been respectful about it. If you disagree, then so be it. I just can't see how I've been any less respectful or graceful than any of you who disagree with me. *shrug*
A divorced woman I used to know several years back, but I'm not in touch with now, actually holds the same view as me. She's the one that got my attention more when she presented the conclusions she'd drawn from her study and prayer. I doubt the reaction here to her would be any different though. Frankly, she was a lot more direct and blunt than I am...I'm sure she could've really caused a ruckus. lol

Accuse me of not being loving huh? Now that one is a real trip.
Love is not all about being flowery, politcally correct, and dancing around things because we're afraid someone is going to get offended. Did Jesus do that? Heck no He didn't! He was the most loving person to ever walk the Earth though.
Of course He was absolutely correct 100% of the time, so He had that going for Him.
Really though, what does how loving I'm being have to do with the topic at hand? Nothing. It's just a personal attack. It doesn't disprove my views or the verses I listed. It also doesn't put any weight to the opposing view. I've seen that tactic plenty though.
I can't count the times that someone throws out "you're judging!" or "you're not being loving!" just because they disagree with what someone else is saying.

God makes the rules. NOT us. It doesn't matter what we think or feel about any given thing. He's the one that decides what goes. We can shake our fists at Him and yell, "it's not fair!", but it doesn't change it. We are to submit to Him regardless.

If I didn't care at all what was going on in the church and society today, I never would've posted this thread. You are, of course, free to interpret my words and actions any way you want to. Go ahead and twist them up and read things that aren't there as well. I can't stop you from doing that either. Whatever you come up with doesn't change the truth of what has really happened here.

To whoever is reading this:
I hope someone will get something out of this thread.
Study all the Bible passages related to this topic that you can find. Pray about it. You make the choice.
 

Snackersmom

Senior Member
May 10, 2011
1,485
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#30
Well, the above conclusion you are at, at this point in time basically is saying that God condemns the innocent party to a life of loneliness (for the rest of their lives!) after the divorce, without the hope of having children, companionship etc, and because of no husband or wife the greatly increased risk of falling into fornication and all through no fault of their own!

I think you need to go back to the drawing board and search the Scriptures again, for from my study of the Scriptures God does NO such thing...the whole point of providing divorce for the innocent party is not only to get out of the failed marriage, but also to let them remarry if they so wish (without feeling any kind of guilt) and find the happiness, companionship etc that ended in the previous marriage through NO fauth of their own because of the adultery of the other party!

Yahweh Shalom...
I'm largely commenting on the part in bold. I'm curious why you feel that life-long singleness is a type of condemnation? Paul said that it was actually preferable (though He acknowledged that some are called to marriage).

There was a time in my life when I thought I needed marriage to be content. I don't. I need to be in God's will to be content. Besides, we aren't commanded to "be happy", we're commanded to follow Jesus. So often, particularly in the Christian community, we treat marriage as a "right". It isn't.

Don't get me wrong; a Godly marriage is a true blessing. The Lord invented the concept, but He doesn't want us to take it lightly. Two becoming one flesh is some pretty heavy stuff, ya know?

The verses NiceguyJ presented (in an extremely no-condemning way, in my humble opinion) should not be passed over simply because they're controversial. I do think that it matters whether the person in question was a professing Christian when the divorce happened....if they weren't then it seems to me that all things have passed away and become new, but that's my take on it.

DISCLAIMER: For the record, I've never been married, and for those who don't already know, I'm not really a mom. Snackers exists largely in my head, with a dual physical backdrop. If you feel that is weird, I would say that you are correct ;).
 
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IlikeU

Guest
#31
Marriage is sacred, and I almost got married to someone I'm sure would make my life very difficult. If I hadn't broken up before we got married, I can honestly say I would have had a terrible life unless something drastic happened between us. Looking back now, I could handle the situation better if I started over with the same person, and I'm sure then her resentment, and eventual bitterness and hatred for me would have dissolved like snow on my finger.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,958
4,595
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#32
Nope, I'm not accusing Niceguy of being unloving. I've seen your posts around the forum and know that you are intelligent and compassionate. I understand that God's idea of love is different from ours, and often wonder if, as Christians, we put too much emphasis on "love" and, as you are saying, not enough on the reality of God's commands.

Not to derail the thread... but as a child I saw an artist's rendition of the Flood once... and it was like a scene from the Titanic. The Ark was floating high above the water... and the waters below it was filled with screaming, desperate, dying people trying to climb up the side of the ark. As an adult (and yes, I've studied the Bible for years as well... my parents had me in the pew the first week they got me and I've been in the Word ever since), I have often thought of that picture, and the fact that we as humans can never fully understand God.

Nod, I appreciate what you said and you are right. I was just curious, do you feel you can ever remarry? I'm sorry if that's too personal, was just wondering. And I agree with you as well that people make up what they want to hear and try to claim it's what God would say.

I do often wonder if the disciples were on track and that maybe it's best for many not to marry, I don't know. I have read many accounts of such things as a spouse getting Alzheimer's (I just read about a Christian man whose wife has not known who he is for the past 20 years and screams when he comes near her, even if it's just to feed her), as well as watching many people I know go through cancer, etc. as couples.

We truly don't know the weight of "for richer or for poorer, for sickness or in health" until we're living in the midst of it. I'm not sure how well I would fare in that situation, and that's probably a good reason why I'm not remarried. I wonder to myself if I'm capable of keeping God's commands.
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#33
I want to post some things that have not been posted, for your consideration:

First, obviously, divorce can mean the legal proceedings, and that is not what Jesus is talking about. If something is okay with God, there is nothing wrong with using courts to adjust the paperwork according to what God has done. My purpose in mentioning this is to separate human law from God's law.

Second, Jesus' statement, that being left causes one to commit adultery, was given in answer to a question from scholars of the OT Law and was about definitions under the Law. Our obedience to the commandments of the Law was set aside in Acts 15:28-29. The reason we study the OT law is for correction, teaching and reproof. (2 Tim 3:17), since nothing is unlawful to me, but we wish to have the maximum expedience unto salvation. (I Cor. 6:12). We study the OT testament, so we may know what Jesus has fulfilled. (Special note, avoiding fornication is still in the list; see I Cor. 7:2)

Third, the complete rule under which we will go to heaven or hell is given in Matt. 25:31 ff. This judgment fulfills not the 613 commandments of OT Law, but the two great commandments articulated by Jesus. It is based totally on love making Jesus physically present in the world.

In my opinion: The NT teaches the Christian may not leave a marraige. However, a Christian may remarry in at least two cases: When left by a non-Christian (I Cor. 7:15) and when a Christian spouse leaves because the spouse cannot accept a call to certain ministries. (Inferrable from the special relationship "lead about a sister as a wife" in 1 Cor. 9:5). to me, common sense indicates that an abusing or an unrepentant adulterous spouse has already left in his heart. This departing spouse is charged with all the sin that results from the action, including that of forcing the remaining spouse to "commit adultery" under the OT Law. I Cor. 7:2 actually can be read to recommend remarriage for some people. The spouse left is not charged with sin because of being left.

Fourth, in Matt. 19:12 Jesus fails to list eunuchs made eunuchs by the spouse who leaves. I can see no purpose to laying onto a spouse who was left, the burden that they may never show or experience marital love again, when Jesus fails to lay that burden on them.

That's why I first said we need to bring up our children to pray about who they will marry just as much as we have them pray about their career, or where they will live. Of course, it would be better if we never had to search the Scriptures for this kind of thing.
 

niceguyJ

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2011
520
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#34
Alright, so I want to make at least one more post in this.

Ken: Thanks for the well thought out response and for providing the verses you're drawing your views from. I went over it, read the verses, etc. I also read what others posted as well, for the record.

That said, it doesn't change anything for me. I can see the valid reasons for divorce listed, but still the only for sure valid reason I can see for re-marriage listed is in the case of death of the spouse.
A friend pointed out to me (thanks!) that it seemed to her that if a person divorces, then later their former spouse dies, it would seem they're free to re-marry then. I can't disagree with that, because death was clearly listed as an okay for re-marriage.

To those of you who are divorced and seeking God with all your heart (I'm not going to call names, because I might leave someone out I feel this way about):
I want you to know that I respect your honesty and how you've been very real. Whether we agree or not, and regardless of what your opinion of me is after this thread, I respect those of you who are trying to do the right thing and live lives that are pleasing to God. It's not easy for anyone, but God is always there, and it'll be worth it in the end.

I did feel the need to make one more disclaimer to: This thread certainly wasn't directed mainly at divorced people..not at all. It's very much about single people too, maybe even moreso. That said, those of you who are divorced are in a unique position to share from personal experience, as some of you have. I hope your honesty contributes to the single people thinking harder before acting, so to speak.
 
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jadealexis

Guest
#35
I Think people need to just relax trust fully in God to bring someone to them people get married barely thinking about it. And the response is usually always oh well if it doesnt work we can just divorce. At that point why even bother
 
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Chrissy77

Guest
#36
First off I want to say, Niceguy, as a divorced woman I don't find your statements to be unfeeling. In reality, they continue to give me many chances to seek the Lord in his word and ask him what his will in MY life may be. In the end, no matter how much we want to go back and change our mistakes, we can not. Therefore, as a sinner saved daily by God's grace, I pray that he sees fit to walk with me and direct my path. I can't make it without him holding my hand!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for the reminder of how much I need him!

"I Can't Even Walk (Without You Holding My Hand)" - Gordon Mote - YouTube
Gordon Mote: I Can't Even Walk
 
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rerun

Guest
#37
My question is then if we cant marry divorced people who can we marry??? I am interested in a lady that is divorced due to her husband's adultery. We both are victims of adultery and I believe that we can remarry since adultery is the reason for our divorce. I believe for me to marry a lady that got tired of her marriage and walked out is wrong and would be grounds for adultery. That is my take on that....
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
#38
They're both serious business. People in general take both a little too lightly IMO.