The seriousness of marriage and divorce.

[niceguyJ]

Luke 16:18 (NIV)
18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.



Mark 10:11-12 (NIV)
11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

If all Christians firmly believed in those two verses, and took them at face value...If they were taught to single people in the church from an early age, would the divorce rate be lower amongst those claiming Christianity? I say yes.

I don't expect them to be taught like that though because even if pastors and teachers do take them as I see them, they are too afraid of offending someone to preach it or teach it.

I know the following verse is tossed around plenty:

Matthew 5:32
32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

All of those are noted as spoken by Jesus himself. That last one does look differently than the first two. It seems to add an exception the way I first read it.. That's a bit confusing. I wonder if something just got changed up a bit in translation there. Hmm.
I guess, for me, it comes down to it's 2-1 so to speak..as the first two verses seem very clear.

This is just something weighing heavily on me right now, one of those things that I feel like I have to get out there or it's just going to keep nagging me.
It's a complicated and touchy issue, no doubt. I often keep quiet about this particular subject for the above reasons..which makes make me no different than those in teaching positions who believe the same thing yet won't speak it I guess... I think it needs to be presented, knowing full well those of us who hold to it are in the minority.
The only thing I wonder about, with my view, is if it makes a difference whether or not the person was a professing Christian or not when events were taking place.

As a bit of a disclaimer: No, I'm not looking down on divorced people who may be reading this and I don't think I'm any better than you are. I'm not. Rather my heart goes out to you, especially those of you who wanted to make it work but your spouse quit on you...and those who were mistreated.
I've never experienced that particular type of pain. I know God and God alone can bring healing and restoration though. You can find peace in Him.

 

[kenisyes]

There are three things everyone should be praying about at a very early age: where they are to live, what they are to do for a career, and who they are to marry. I have known God to move powerfully though His choice of any one of the three. What if someone let God pick them all?

 

[eugenius]

In modern society divorce is commonplace. Its not taken seriously. Getting a spouse is similar to buying a new car. Eh my wife is getting boring. Time to go to the dealer and buy myself a brand new one. Send the old one to the junk yard. This is where we as Christians differ from the rest of society.

 

[zaoman32]

In modern society divorce is commonplace. Its not taken seriously. Getting a spouse is similar to buying a new car. Eh my wife is getting boring. Time to go to the dealer and buy myself a brand new one. Send the old one to the junk yard. This is where we as Christians differ from the rest of society.

Unfortunately among Christians it seems, at least to me, that it is getting treated with as much of a cavalier style. As much as the verse excusing divorce based on sexual immorality is and should be the only grounds for divorce, unfortunately I think that particular verse is also being abused itself and used as an excuse to go "out with the old and in with the new". My old pastor told the congregation a true story once where a married women came up to him and asked if he believed God wanted her to have a blessed and happy life. The pastor responded an obvious yes, and she replied "Well I'm not happy with my husband so God wants me to leave him."

I wanted to have more to say, but I guess I'm done.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[jb]

Luke 16:18 (NIV)
18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.



Mark 10:11-12 (NIV)
11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

If all Christians firmly believed in those two verses, and took them at face value...If they were taught to single people in the church from an early age, would the divorce rate be lower amongst those claiming Christianity? I say yes.

I don't expect them to be taught like that though because even if pastors and teachers do take them as I see them, they are too afraid of offending someone to preach it or teach it.

I know the following verse is tossed around plenty:

Matthew 5:32
32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

All of those are noted as spoken by Jesus himself. That last one does look differently than the first two. It seems to add an exception the way I first read it.. That's a bit confusing. I wonder if something just got changed up a bit in translation there. Hmm.
I guess, for me, it comes down to it's 2-1 so to speak..as the first two verses seem very clear.

This is just something weighing heavily on me right now, one of those things that I feel like I have to get out there or it's just going to keep nagging me.
It's a complicated and touchy issue, no doubt. I often keep quiet about this particular subject for the above reasons..which makes make me no different than those in teaching positions who believe the same thing yet won't speak it I guess... I think it needs to be presented, knowing full well those of us who hold to it are in the minority.
The only thing I wonder about, with my view, is if it makes a difference whether or not the person was a professing Christian or not when events were taking place.

As a bit of a disclaimer: No, I'm not looking down on divorced people who may be reading this and I don't think I'm any better than you are. I'm not. Rather my heart goes out to you, especially those of you who wanted to make it work but your spouse quit on you...and those who were mistreated.
I've never experienced that particular type of pain. I know God and God alone can bring healing and restoration though. You can find peace in Him.

I think if you do a FULL study on marriage and divorce from Genesis to The Book of Revelation, spending a lot of time in prayer you will eventually get a balanced view on it...I did such a study, which took me many months and many hours of prayer and one of the conclusions that I came to was that under the New Covenant, God does NOT condemn the innocent party (where adultery has been committed) to staying in that marriage, but provides divorce if they so want it!

I did such a study after my wife divorced me, it was what she wanted and not I and there was no adultery committed...I have no hangups about my divorce, because it was not I that went down that road.

So, let me be blunt, if you have NOT done a full study on it, I suggest you go and do it and then come back and talk about it without (what I think) is a blinkered view of it!

Yahweh Shalom...

 

[Delaine]

I understand and believe those verses, however when your marriage has become loveless and it was unequally yolked from the start, somethings such as divorce, are inevitable. It kills me for my children that their father and I are separated and heading for a divorce, after 14 years of marriage and 4 years on and off counseling nothing seemed to change, even my broken heart, feelings of emptiness, ability to trust that he believed what he said to me, that his actions supported his words, that I was an equal not just the wife pleasing him and caring for the kids. He says to this day that he loves me but I cant tell him I love him, his love scares me. Quite honestly although I struggle a lot financially I am happier, I feel some joy, some relief and my kids ages 9 and 12 have even comment on the changes (positive) in me. I am NOT a person to encourage divorce, Lord knows I never thought I'd be divorcing my husband but I believe we can learn from any situation and make positives rise about the negatives.

 

[niceguyJ]

I think if you do a FULL study on marriage and divorce from Genesis to The Book of Revelation, spending a lot of time in prayer you will eventually get a balanced view on it...I did such a study, which took me many months and many hours of prayer and one of the conclusions that I came to was that under the New Covenant, God does NOT condemn the innocent party (where adultery has been committed) to staying in that marriage, but provides divorce if they so want it!

I did such a study after my wife divorced me, it was what she wanted and not I and there was no adultery committed...I have no hangups about my divorce, because it was not I that went down that road.

So, let me be blunt, if you have NOT done a full study on it, I suggest you go and do it and then come back and talk about it without (what I think) is a blinkered view of it!

Yahweh Shalom...

Yeah. I've studied it and prayed about it.
To clarify, I do agree with you that adultery is a valid reason for divorce. However, I don't see any scripture that would confirm to me that remarriage is okay at that point.

In my studies, I've only ever seen one instance where I'm 100% sure re-marriage is okay.. That's in the case of death.
1 Cor 7:39
39 A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord.

I understand and believe those verses, however when your marriage has become loveless and it was unequally yolked from the start, somethings such as divorce, are inevitable. It kills me for my children that their father and I are separated and heading for a divorce, after 14 years of marriage and 4 years on and off counseling nothing seemed to change, even my broken heart, feelings of emptiness, ability to trust that he believed what he said to me, that his actions supported his words, that I was an equal not just the wife pleasing him and caring for the kids. He says to this day that he loves me but I cant tell him I love him, his love scares me. Quite honestly although I struggle a lot financially I am happier, I feel some joy, some relief and my kids ages 9 and 12 have even comment on the changes (positive) in me. I am NOT a person to encourage divorce, Lord knows I never thought I'd be divorcing my husband but I believe we can learn from any situation and make positives rise about the negatives.

Paul had something to say about believer-unbeliever cases in 1 Cor 7: 12-15. ..but you've likely seen it already.

 

[niceguyJ]

Matthew 5:32
32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Let me go back to this verse...Some claim that "except for sexual immorality" part is saying it's okay to remarry. I think it's just giving that as a valid reason for divorce. It never says anything about re-marrying. That's something that confused me before (as mentioned above). I initially read the verse and thought it looked like it might be contradicting the other two..but it's not. That's the conclusion I came to.

 

[niceguyJ]

I can't edit, since it's been 5 minutes. The verse that I found most confusing, in my study, compared to the others was actually Matthew 19:9. That's the one I meant to put up there third. I had to recheck some stuff and then found it:

9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,[a] and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

That's the one that makes it look like it's okay to remarry if the divorce was because of sexual immorality if read a certain way. That's the one that confused me the most and seemed to not quite go along with the others. I realized the punctuation in this verse is everything though. It does go along with the others afte rall.
The comma after "wife" and is hugely important. Without that, it does look like it says it's okay to remarry in such cases. With that comma in place though, and the other I can take apart the verse and make it read more like this (temporarily omit each part within the commas. There's some English rule about this I had to recall):

And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

and this:

And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

It's just a more complicated way of saying more than one thing, and the same things the other verses are saying. Finally, that one makes sense to me and goes along with the others.

 

[Chrissy77]

I don't have the answer. I would like to know how you make someone stay with you who doesn't want to be there. I have heard this hashed back and forth time after time. The only thing I can say is this...

“If the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace” (I Corinthians 7:15).

The Bible says that if you are with an unbeliever or I am going to assume becomes an unbeliever than you are free to depart.

Also it says if you marry a divorced person then you are committing adultery, yet the Bible states that a sin is forgiven if you go to him with a repentant heart. Then you would be washed by his blood.

”If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins” (I John 1:9).

I won't bore you with my story, but I will say divorce is NOT ever the solution. It took me 4 years to stop hating myself for what I saw as my failure from being a "divorced woman". I believe God is a just and fair God and will look at my sin of divorce as just that, a sin. Repentance is asking for forgiveness and turning away from what you have done and never doing it again. I failed God and myself! That will never happen again as long as I stay in his word!!!

 

[niceguyJ]

I don't have the answer. I would like to know how you make someone stay with you who doesn't want to be there. I have heard this hashed back and forth time after time. The only thing I can say is this...

“If the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace” (I Corinthians 7:15).

The Bible says that if you are with an unbeliever or I am going to assume becomes an unbeliever than you are free to depart.

Also it says if you marry a divorced person then you are committing adultery, yet the Bible states that a sin is forgiven if you go to him with a repentant heart. Then you would be washed by his blood.

”If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins” (I John 1:9).

I won't bore you with my story, but I will say divorce is NOT ever the solution. It took me 4 years to stop hating myself for what I saw as my failure from being a "divorced woman". I believe God is a just and fair God and will look at my sin of divorce as just that, a sin. Repentance is asking for forgiveness and turning away from what you have done and never doing it again. I failed God and myself! That will never happen again as long as I stay in his word!!!

Right on. I don't disagree with anything you said there (I dont' think..except maybe the last part I'll get to..unless I'm misunderstanding). In fact, I mentioned those verses in 1 Cor 7 up there too.

I'm certainly not saying sin can't be forgiven either, to clarify. Of course it can be forgiven! Sin still has some Earthly consequences though (Thank the Lord we don't have to suffer any eternal consequences if we're God's!).
Example I've used before here for something: Lets say a Christian guy strays from God and ends up murdering another man. That lands him a life sentence in prison. He seeks God's forgiveness and repents. That doesn't mean he gets out of jail though. That's still the consequence of his sin. Unfortunately, the family of the victim in this situation still has to suffer some too due to that person's sin. I can see the same kind of logic being used for a divorce situation.
It's sad, to say the least...but God will walk through anything with us.
From what I've seen of you here, Chrissy, you always seem to be seeking Him. So I respect that a lot.

I know not everyone agrees with what I'm saying in this thread. I think I've said what I wanted to get out though, and even learned a bit too. I'm not sure if I'll have anything else to say in this one (or need to clarify anything else that I meant or didn't mean), but I plan on reading it if more posts are made.

 

[oracle2world]

Divorce is a serious matter, and devastating to children when they are involved.

 

[Chrissy77]

Right on. I don't disagree with anything you said there (I dont' think..except maybe the last part I'll get to..unless I'm misunderstanding). In fact, I mentioned those verses in 1 Cor 7 up there too.

I'm certainly not saying sin can't be forgiven either, to clarify. Of course it can be forgiven! Sin still has some Earthly consequences though (Thank the Lord we don't have to suffer any eternal consequences if we're God's!).
Example I've used before here for something: Lets say a Christian guy strays from God and ends up murdering another man. That lands him a life sentence in prison. He seeks God's forgiveness and repents. That doesn't mean he gets out of jail though. That's still the consequence of his sin. Unfortunately, the family of the victim in this situation still has to suffer some too due to that person's sin. I can see the same kind of logic being used for a divorce situation.
It's sad, to say the least...but God will walk through anything with us.
From what I've seen of you here, Chrissy, you always seem to be seeking Him. So I respect that a lot.

I know not everyone agrees with what I'm saying in this thread. I think I've said what I wanted to get out though, and even learned a bit too. I'm not sure if I'll have anything else to say in this one (or need to clarify anything else that I meant or didn't mean), but I plan on reading it if more posts are made.

First off I want to say how much respect I have for you and the way you conduct yourself. You don't take to bashing or criticizing and that shows me how much you truly are a man of God. The fact that you are seeking answers means that you are not content staying where you are. That is wonderful because we should never become stagnant in our walk with God.

You are correct is how you defined the results of sin. As a result of mine and my exes sin, our kids are now having to be raised in two households. I am thankful that we do agree that we still need to raise them as a team and that is what we are trying our best to do. Do not worry because everyone might not agree with you. How are we to grow in God if we never give our relationship with him time to mature and be tried. One thing I have never done nor will ever do is try to justify why we chose to divorce. We failed! Plain and simple.

There are many things in my past that I wish I could go back and do over but that is not ever going to happen. My continual prayer is I shew forth God in my life until he chooses to take me from this earth.

 

[FireWire]

Eugenius, your avatar will be out of date at midnight (2 1/2 hours to go)

 

[medolina]

Divorce because of adultery can be an option.. But it is not a must or the only way out... And I do believe that we can choose to divorce but we can't remarried again.. second married can happen only if the first marriage was separate by death...

 

[sanglina]

Whenever people talked/discussed marriage, I am always reminded of the the adage "Life is not a bed of roses". We are such a complicated being that we tend to even be not satisfied/happy at our own self/life at times. Hence, there is obviously bound to be ups and downs between two individuals coming together (in a marriage) whether they are of similar or varied personality. And I believed if both the party concern has "till death do us apart" at the back of his/her mind instead of divorce (as an option) whenever or despite encountering "thorns" or "hiccups" in the marriage, then I strongly believed that marriage will survived through many 'storms and thorns'.

 

[jb]

Yeah. I've studied it and prayed about it....
To clarify, I do agree with you that adultery is a valid reason for divorce. However, I don't see any scripture that would confirm to me that remarriage is okay at that point....

Well, the above conclusion you are at, at this point in time basically is saying that God condemns the innocent party to a life of loneliness (for the rest of their lives!) after the divorce, without the hope of having children, companionship etc, and because of no husband or wife the greatly increased risk of falling into fornication and all through no fault of their own!

I think you need to go back to the drawing board and search the Scriptures again, for from my study of the Scriptures God does NO such thing...the whole point of providing divorce for the innocent party is not only to get out of the failed marriage, but also to let them remarry if they so wish (without feeling any kind of guilt) and find the happiness, companionship etc that ended in the previous marriage through NO fauth of their own because of the adultery of the other party!

Yahweh Shalom...

 

[zaoman32]

Well, the above conclusion you are at, at this point in time basically is saying that God condemns the innocent party to a life of loneliness (for the rest of their lives!) after the divorce, without the hope of having children, companionship etc, and because of no husband or wife the greatly increased risk of falling into fornication and all through no fault of their own!

I think you need to go back to the drawing board and search the Scriptures again, for from my study of the Scriptures God does NO such thing...the whole point of providing divorce for the innocent party is not only to get out of the failed marriage, but also to let them remarry if they so wish (without feeling any kind of guilt) and find the happiness, companionship etc that ended in the previous marriage through NO fauth of their own because of the adultery of the other party!

Yahweh Shalom...

I really don't think Niceguy is carrying a tone nor intending condemnation on anybody, I am divorced as well and was just as irritated as you when I first read this thinking it was condemnation garbage, but after chilling out and rereading it, I really don't think that's his intent

Niceguy-If I understand right your NOT presenting the issue of marriage and divorce so much as marrying a divorced person. It almost seems like your taking a religious issue and turning it into a political and legal issue "well this is ok in this situation in the case of party B doing such and such or if party A is guilty of such and such" I realize this is what Jesus himself had said, but also look at the context he was speaking in. He speaking a people obsessed with the law looking for legal answers. I know plenty of people who have been divorced and remarried and I don't think they're in danger of hell because of it.

Also keep in mind Jesus other words, after he states that it is more possible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven his disciples ask how it is possible for anyone to get to have Jesus replies: "With man it is impossible, with God ALL things are possible."

 

[niceguyJ]

Well, the above conclusion you are at, at this point in time basically is saying that God condemns the innocent party to a life of loneliness (for the rest of their lives!) after the divorce, without the hope of having children, companionship etc, and because of no husband or wife the greatly increased risk of falling into fornication and all through no fault of their own!

I think you need to go back to the drawing board and search the Scriptures again, for from my study of the Scriptures God does NO such thing...the whole point of providing divorce for the innocent party is not only to get out of the failed marriage, but also to let them remarry if they so wish (without feeling any kind of guilt) and find the happiness, companionship etc that ended in the previous marriage through NO fauth of their own because of the adultery of the other party!

Yahweh Shalom...

To me, that's a stretch..especially the last part (If we fall into fornication, it IS our fault. We made the choice. We can't blame it on being single and lonely). It sounds like, "It's not fair God!". God doesn't owe us anything. We should all be burning in hell if we got what we really deserved. Thankfully he saves us from that. Anything on top of that is a blessing. He's all we truly need. I do understand lonely feelings though. I'm not denying that happens. Most of all of us experience them from time to time.

I've shown you the scriptures that support my viewpoint. I've seen none to support yours.
We're just simply not going to agree on this.

I really don't think Niceguy is carrying a tone nor intending condemnation on anybody, I am divorced as well and was just as irritated as you when I first read this thinking it was condemnation garbage, but after chilling out and rereading it, I really don't think that's his intent

Niceguy-If I understand right your NOT presenting the issue of marriage and divorce so much as marrying a divorced person. It almost seems like your taking a religious issue and turning it into a political and legal issue "well this is ok in this situation in the case of party B doing such and such or if party A is guilty of such and such" I realize this is what Jesus himself had said, but also look at the context he was speaking in. He speaking a people obsessed with the law looking for legal answers. I know plenty of people who have been divorced and remarried and I don't think they're in danger of hell because of it.

Also keep in mind Jesus other words, after he states that it is more possible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven his disciples ask how it is possible for anyone to get to have Jesus replies: "With man it is impossible, with God ALL things are possible."

It's about all of it...marriage, divorce, and remarriage.
I've simply presented the views I've arrived at, and the scripture to support it. I just want to see some change for the better, and for people to take marriage more seriously.

I never said anyone was going to Hell over it. God didn't either. Sin can be forgiven. That's between God and the individual.

The context here doesn't change the meaning of what Jesus said though. It still applies today. For me, there is no other way to interpret those verses.

Absolutely, with God all things are possible. I don't see how that verse relates to this though.

 

[zaoman32]

My reply definitely made me look like an idiot no doubt, why I added the verse about Jesus at the end was because in my opinion, the words "with God all things are possible" apply's to every aspect of life.

As I stated before I didn't feel like you were condemning people, and still don't, but after you initial post you at least sounded like you were pointing out the issue of remarriage rather than just divorce so that's how I got what I did.