What things are you doing for God while waiting?

[Liamson]

You want to marry Arwen Liamson?

No...

I think you missed the point I was getting at.


People want that, to be shown in Obvious fashion WHO they are going to spend the rest of their life with. They want a SIGN from ABOVE, with lights. A dream from God, with a Voice and a choir of Angels.

They don't want a choice, they want the choice to be made for them. They don't want to fall in love, they want to feel the Heavenly Obligation.

If it doesn't work after they see all the superstitious signs in the world, it obviously isn't their fault.

 

[LightningClap0002]

No...

I think you missed the point I was getting at.


People want that, to be shown in Obvious fashion WHO they are going to spend the rest of their life with. They want a SIGN from ABOVE, with lights. A dream from God, with a Voice and a choir of Angels.

They don't want a choice, they want the choice to be made for them. They don't want to fall in love, they want to feel the Heavenly Obligation.

If it doesn't work after they see all the superstitious signs in the world, it obviously isn't their fault.

I cant' speak for everyone, but what you call heavenly obligation, Ii call perfect love: God, He is love. To seek His will is to seek true love. The reason I seek God's blessing, God's 'sign' in relationships is at least two-fold

1) Wisdom - God tells us that He knows each of us better than we even know ourselves. No matter how long I spend dating someone, how could I ever achieve that level of understanding of the other person? What more, God tells us that He will share this with us. He isn't just up there in heaven knowing what's best and shaking His head as we fumble around.

2) True Love - God is love. Apart from Him there is no love. I know that that only way I could ever truly love any woman is if God gives me the ability to. Falling in love apart from God is foolishness. As for myself, if I were to be on the receiving side of it, I would much rather know that it was God that brought us together.

Do I need a light and choral anthem? No, but I do need something, something from God. My choice is to choose God, to choose love; not obligation.

 

[Liamson]

I cant' speak for everyone, but what you call heavenly obligation, Ii call perfect love: God, He is love. To seek His will is to seek true love. The reason I seek God's blessing, God's 'sign' in relationships is at least two-fold

1) Wisdom - God tells us that He knows each of us better than we even know ourselves. No matter how long I spend dating someone, how could I ever achieve that level of understanding of the other person? What more, God tells us that He will share this with us. He isn't just up there in heaven knowing what's best and shaking His head as we fumble around.

2) True Love - God is love. Apart from Him there is no love. I know that that only way I could ever truly love any woman is if God gives me the ability to. Falling in love apart from God is foolishness. As for myself, if I were to be on the receiving side of it, I would much rather know that it was God that brought us together.

Do I need a light and choral anthem? No, but I do need something, something from God. My choice is to choose God, to choose love; not obligation.

Where in the Bible does it say that we should look around Superstitiously for a sign that will show us who to marry?

Is it in the Clouds?

The Stars?

If we are looking for a sign are we really talking about God?

 

[LightningClap0002]

Where in the Bible does it say that we should look around Superstitiously for a sign that will show us who to marry?

Is it in the Clouds?

The Stars?

If we are looking for a sign are we really talking about God?

We're coming at this from opposite ends. You're saying that the sign can't come from God because it's superstitious. I'm saying that it's not superstitious if it comes from God. Since discernment isn't always easy, for me, it must be clearly a Godly something.

I have no preconception about what the sign will be, or even that there ever will be one. I'm waiting for a clear something from God, I am not trying to tell God what sign I expect him to give me. I don't have to marry, but if I do it will be for God, not a personal feeling, no matter how intense.

My belief is based upon scripture which both demonstrates, and promises that God will lead us, and God's demonstrated nature to provide signs of assurance. Signs from God guiding people(there are others, it's a pretty general concept throughout the Bible):
- Genesis 9:12
- Exodus 3:12 and 4:1-
- 1 Samuel 10
- Hebrews 2:4
- Matthew 2
and then a special case where God did use a dream to bring about a marriage
- Matthew 1:20

And when the disciples gained the Holy Spirit, we were told that God would interact with [some of] us through dreams, prophecying, tongues etc... When it comes to marriage, which God often parallels to His relationship with us, it is not in God's character to withhold His will from those He has chosen and called according to His purpose.

So my belief is that God, who values Love above all else, who has used signs to lead His people for thousands of years (even before He lived in us), can and does show His will through signs. Often in a whisper, but sometimes in a flash of light or rainbow or star or pillar of cloud. But even still if only in a whisper, it is something.

 

[Liamson]

Everything in our experience is determined by practical reason.
Practical reason operates according to universal laws.
Miracles occur either (1) daily, (2) seldom, or (3) never.
But what occurs daily is not a miracle since it occurs regularly according to natural laws.
And what occurs seldom is not determined by any law.
Therefore according to Natural Law a Miracle is an abhorration in the face of Natural Laws and should not exist.


However Miracles by definition are a suspension of the rules which govern the Universe and do exist.

Considering that I* Consider a sign to be a form of a Miracle I would conclude that it is irrational and selfish to conclude that I am deserving a suspension of the Universe for God to give me an assurance of who I am going to marry. The Universe does not bend to cater to me and my whims, neither does God.

We have no assurance that there is any formula for receiving assurance from God concerning things like this.

If Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen, then we should have faith that we are for God and the purpose that He has instilled within us regardless of the circumstances. Should it be a job, a marriage or a church, relying on a sign is not a show of Good faith on our part. It is substituting Faith for superstition.

 

[LightningClap0002]

I don't trust my own ability to reason, especially when it comes to something as significant as a life-long loving commitment and vow before God. Proverbs 3:5, Psalm 86:11, Psalm 119, Isaiah 26:8, Isaiah 55, Colossians 2:8

As for miracles, God gave His beloved Son for YOU, to forgive your sins, any sign or miracle is trivial in comparison. Mark 2:8

That said, it appears our definition of sign is fairly different. My general understanding of the term is: an object, quality, or event whose presence or occurrence indicates the probable presence or occurrence of something else. As it applies to this discussion, the signs I receive are encouragement from other christians, personal revelation through the Word, approval from my family. But I wouldn't limit God to these, as He has demonstrated a very real ability to accomplish the truly supernatural, He does speak to people in different ways. I certainly wouldn't throw out the command in 1 John 4, especially if someone told me that a donkey told them who to marry, but God has used donkey's words before... Numbers 22

If Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen, then we should have faith that we are for God and the purpose that He has instilled within us regardless of the circumstances. Should it be a job, a marriage or a church, relying on a sign is not a show of Good faith on our part. It is substituting Faith for superstition.

Is this based on a Biblical command? I'm not sure that I've read anything along those lines before. :/

 

[Liamson]

In Hebrews 11 is all the examples of people moving by Faith and not by sight or signs. " faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."

By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family.

 

[LightningClap0002]

In Hebrews 11 is all the examples of people moving by Faith and not by sight or signs. " faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."

By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family.

It's not the necessity of faith I'm questioning. It's rather in what should faith be placed. When I read Hebrews 11 it seems to be saying that we should have faith that God is who He claims, that God will do what He says He will. When I read Hebrews 11:6, I see further support for the idea that we should seek God first and His will, righteousness. Beyond that, He tells us clearly that he will answer us. 1 John 5

I think I see your example above, of Noah, a bit different than you. Noah's faith was that God would do what God had told him[noah] He would do. As a result of that faith, came his obedience. It wasn't faith in the righteousness of his(noah) actions (faith that he was for God), but faith that God's direction was righteous and a desire for righteousness.

 

[Liamson]

Exactly, it should be about What we put our Faith in. In God and His righteousness, not in signs.

We should seek God and He will meet our needs.

Not if we seek God, He is going to Grant us a wife through signs and wonders.

 

[LightningClap0002]

Exactly, it should be about What we put our Faith in. In God and His righteousness, not in signs.

We should seek God and He will meet our needs.

Not if we seek God, He is going to Grant us a wife through signs and wonders.

I didn't say any such thing. In fact, I specifically contradicted that idea. :/ Signs and wonders have no power in and of themselves. As such, they cannot be given the credit for their result.

 

[Liamson]

I think we need to do a little "leg work" on this one and beat the bushes if we are going to find what we are looking for.

I don't think she is just going to show up bathed in light as you hear a voice from heaven, "She is the one, the ONE I have picked out for YOU. I have heard your prayers and seen fit to provide you with the woman that you were meant to be with from the foundations of the earth."

I dare say from that day forward, it was utterly and divinely fabulous. Mmmm... yes, it was.

I didn't say any such thing. In fact, I specifically contradicted that idea. :/ Signs and wonders have no power in and of themselves. As such, they cannot be given the credit for their result.

Well, that is what I've been saying all along. Pretty much the point of my Original post. No signs, no wonders, no Deep Voiced Narrator, no stage lights or crazy smoke machine.

 

[LightningClap0002]

When I read your original arwen post, I wasn't really in agreement, but didn't see any reason to follow up. It wasn't until your follow up post that I joined into the conversation. I saw two ideas that didn't seem to match up with God's word.

1) "They don't want a choice, they want the choice to be made for them. They don't want to fall in love, they want to feel the Heavenly Obligation."
- My response: Just because God has arranged something, doesn't make it a heavenly obligation. We are to seek God's will in everything, not our own 'in love' feelings.

2) "People want that, to be shown in Obvious fashion WHO they are going to spend the rest of their life with."
- My response: God does show people in clear fashion, via signs of varying degree, what His will is. When it comes to marriage, His will seems exceptionally important, so a corresponding level of extra clarity seems appropriate to expect. God doesn't always use dramatic signs, but He can.

My intention throughout the past few posts has been to share that the mindset of waiting for God to clearly show us His will, especially in the matter of marriage, is righteous according to His word. That it is a good thing to seek God's will and not just follow our personal feelings for someone. I had attempted to down play the 'how' as signs come in many different flavors and varieties tailored for each of us individually. The signs themselves are only important in that they provide clarity of God's will.

 

[Liamson]

Marriage is: What God has brought together let no man Separate.

My problem is that people will date until they see a sign. You said, "Just because God has arranged something, doesn't make it a heavenly obligation."

But that is taking into assumption that every sign is a sign from God. If I'm on a date and I hear a certain song on the Radio is that my sign? If I'm reading the Bible and *thinking* about my girlfriend and a dove flies into my Bedroom window is that a sign? Should I mix chicken bones and blood while reciting the Lords Prayer? Should a church of snakes and tongues and fire pronounce who I am to marry?

Matthew 16:4 A perverse and wicked generation seeks a sign but no sign will be given to them, except for that of Jonah.

No, because if I'm looking for a sign instead of examining the relationship, I'm relying on superstition and not on Truth. That is where I bring up Faith. We trust God explicitly, yet when it comes to things we think are important, we look for signs. A sign serves to relieve us of the responsibility of making a good and healthy choice.

Also there is no instruction in the Bible that states that we should look for a sign concerning who we should marry. Instead, we should be doing the leg work of working on a relationship, examining it for lasting Godly righteousness, Deep enduring love and the qualities of a Good Marriage. It is our personal responsibility to Love with all of our hearts, as a choice, blessed by God that no man should separate.

Our God is a God of the heart and of Love. Love is a feeling and a choice. Maybe this is a difference between reformed and everyone else but, when love is not a choice, it is not love.

 

[Searching4Truth]

"She is the one, the ONE I have picked out for YOU. I have heard your prayers and seen fit to provide you with the woman that you were meant to be with from the foundations of the earth."

"Seriously...?"​

 

[LightningClap0002]

Marriage is: What God has brought together let no man Separate.

My problem is that people will date until they see a sign. You said, "Just because God has arranged something, doesn't make it a heavenly obligation."

But that is taking into assumption that every sign is a sign from God. If I'm on a date and I hear a certain song on the Radio is that my sign? If I'm reading the Bible and *thinking* about my girlfriend and a dove flies into my Bedroom window is that a sign? Should I mix chicken bones and blood while reciting the Lords Prayer? Should a church of snakes and tongues and fire pronounce who I am to marry?

Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees and Sadducees came up, and testing Jesus, they asked Him to show them a [a]sign from heaven.
Matthew 16:4 A perverse and wicked generation seeks a sign but no sign will be given to them, except for that of Jonah.

No, because if I'm looking for a sign instead of examining the relationship, I'm relying on superstition and not on Truth. That is where I bring up Faith. We trust God explicitly, yet when it comes to things we think are important, we look for signs. A sign serves to relieve us of the responsibility of making a good and healthy choice.

Also there is no instruction in the Bible that states that we should look for a sign concerning who we should marry. Instead, we should be doing the leg work of working on a relationship, examining it for lasting Godly righteousness, Deep enduring love and the qualities of a Good Marriage. It is our personal responsibility to Love with all of our hearts, as a choice, blessed by God that no man should separate.

Our God is a God of the heart and of Love. Love is a feeling and a choice. Maybe this is a difference between reformed and everyone else but, when love is not a choice, it is not love.

I wrote responses to several of the points you made above. But they were mostly just repetition of verses I've already cited or rewording of things I've already stated. In the end, all I can do is point to God. His words are what everything I believe is built on. He truly is at the center of my life, from the moment I wake up to the moment I fall asleep. I'm not focused on a sign, I'm not focused on a feeling, I'm focused on God and His will. In everything, and most of all relationships. If you can honestly say that you are as well, then there is nothing further that I can add. But if instead you are focused on that feeling, or on making your own daily decisions, then I would beg you to reconsider your priorities.

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

"She is the one, the ONE I have picked out for YOU. I have heard your prayers and seen fit to provide you with the woman that you were meant to be with from the foundations of the earth."

"Seriously...?"​

Thats who im going to end up with, and i dont even like fish.

 

[LightningClap0002]

Thats who im going to end up with, and i dont even like fish.

He's kinda cute. You're sooooo lucky! Imma little jealous.

 

[Stuey]

Just look into his big blue eyes... how pretty are they!

 

[Stuey]

And he is a good hunter too!

 

[dliz]

hahaha. im jk.hmm... maintaining an intimate relationship with God,attending prayer meeting and bible study, youth fellowship,etc.