"There is nothing you could've done for someone who was that far gone"

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TemporaryCircumstances

Guest
#1
#1
So, in my church there has been 8 teens in the student ministry who have taken their life in the past 6 months.
Yesterday I really got thinking about this...
How do we stop this?...How do we help?
How much of a difference would it have made if I was there to reach out and just say "Hey, are you okay? I have noticed you look a bit down, may I pray with you or would you like to talk?"

I have known many people who have taken their lives, and I took that blame upon myself, in therapy this topic came up and she told me there was nothing I could've done, they would've done what they did what they did with or without me."

I hate hearing that from people. I believe that an act of kindness goes further than some can see...
Letting someone know that they aren't alone or forgotten can save a life.
Do any of you agree?


We can't keep going on saying "they are too far gone to help"
This breaks my heart.


Please comment saying if you agree or not.
I'd love to hear opinions on this
 
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Tinuviel

Guest
#2
#2
Oh God, no! Those statistics break my heart :'(

YOU by yourself really can do nothing for these people. But who knows what God can do through us? The past...is past. There is no use revisiting it. But the future is ours to improve upon the past. As Christians, we should ALWAYS be looking for opportunities to show kindness to another. It is a good heads-up for ALL of us. But you cannot think that you have somehow failed God by not speaking to these people. That somehow something you would have said might have kept them from harming themselves. God is in control, even of this seemingly senseless ruin and wretchedness. He WILL be glorified. SDG
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#3
#3
Well, there is a need for you to hear that there's nothing you could have done. Because if you, time after time, take personal responsibility for each person, you are going to destroy yourself. The point of that statement is to get you to stop making Another persons decision about You, which is what you are doing. If you live your life taking the blame because of what someone else did, then you are going to have a horrible life. THAT is the focal point for you. And this is doubly true for people who did not come to you specifically and state that there was something wrong. You are not a mind reader, you are not their counselor or therapist. And even in therapy/psychiatry they are taught not to personalize it when a patient kills themselves, because not everyone is so obvious about their intents.
People who Don't want to die, but feel trapped and like they have no other choice, will often publicize, in one form or another, their intents. They Want to be rescued. But you have to know what sort of things to look for, and if you haven't been trained or experienced in this then you can't be expected to know. But people who Truly want to die will often show no signs of it at all and hide what's going on, because they Don't want to be stopped. In some cases, once they make that decision they will feel more at peace and, on the outside, to others, seem as though they are doing better.

You can't be expected to predict and spot every person with suicidal intents. No one has that much responsibility. Nor can you be expected to go to every single person, or even every person that seems sad, and try to be an influence. These are not reasonable expectations to put on yourself. One problem with that is that you then begin assuming everyone who seems upset may be suicidal, and that you Must go out of your way to say something to them. You will drive yourself mad.
I'm not saying nothing can or should be done. I'm saying you need to have balance.

At the end of the day a person is going to do what they will do. Some of them can be influenced by you, or Someone Else, showing them kindness, others actually are 'too far gone' and short of locking them up, will kill themselves no matter what. Some people kill themselves because of mental illness, which may not be affected by kind acts, because their brain is wired wrong. So it may have nothing at all to do with how others treat them.
There are a many of reasons. There are a multitude of levels of wanting to kill yourself. I've had suicidal desires, but mostly of a shallow variety. Not that i Truly wanted to die, i just felt hopeless and wanted a reason to live. And i have had occasions where i had decided i was going to kill myself, which obviously did not happen, but in that moment i believed i was going to.

So yes, if you see someone who seems to be struggling or hurting on a consistent basis, then befriend them. Or try and do/say something nice. But remember that most people that kill themselves have closer friends/family than you are to that person, who also were not able to prevent it. These are not people who have no one, but who feel so disconnected from the people that Are there, that it doesn't phase them. So you should never stop caring, and you should be balanced in your desire to help such people, but never is it your fault or responsibility. At the end of the day each person makes their own choices.
 
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TemporaryCircumstances

Guest
#4
#4
Ugly said:
Well, there is a need for you to hear that there's nothing you could have done. Because if you, time after time, take personal responsibility for each person, you are going to destroy yourself. The point of that statement is to get you to stop making Another persons decision about You, which is what you are doing. If you live your life taking the blame because of what someone else did, then you are going to have a horrible life. THAT is the focal point for you. And this is doubly true for people who did not come to you specifically and state that there was something wrong. You are not a mind reader, you are not their counselor or therapist. And even in therapy/psychiatry they are taught not to personalize it when a patient kills themselves, because not everyone is so obvious about their intents.
People who Don't want to die, but feel trapped and like they have no other choice, will often publicize, in one form or another, their intents. They Want to be rescued. But you have to know what sort of things to look for, and if you haven't been trained or experienced in this then you can't be expected to know. But people who Truly want to die will often show no signs of it at all and hide what's going on, because they Don't want to be stopped. In some cases, once they make that decision they will feel more at peace and, on the outside, to others, seem as though they are doing better.

You can't be expected to predict and spot every person with suicidal intents. No one has that much responsibility. Nor can you be expected to go to every single person, or even every person that seems sad, and try to be an influence. These are not reasonable expectations to put on yourself. One problem with that is that you then begin assuming everyone who seems upset may be suicidal, and that you Must go out of your way to say something to them. You will drive yourself mad.
I'm not saying nothing can or should be done. I'm saying you need to have balance.

At the end of the day a person is going to do what they will do. Some of them can be influenced by you, or Someone Else, showing them kindness, others actually are 'too far gone' and short of locking them up, will kill themselves no matter what. Some people kill themselves because of mental illness, which may not be affected by kind acts, because their brain is wired wrong. So it may have nothing at all to do with how others treat them.
There are a many of reasons. There are a multitude of levels of wanting to kill yourself. I've had suicidal desires, but mostly of a shallow variety. Not that i Truly wanted to die, i just felt hopeless and wanted a reason to live. And i have had occasions where i had decided i was going to kill myself, which obviously did not happen, but in that moment i believed i was going to.

So yes, if you see someone who seems to be struggling or hurting on a consistent basis, then befriend them. Or try and do/say something nice. But remember that most people that kill themselves have closer friends/family than you are to that person, who also were not able to prevent it. These are not people who have no one, but who feel so disconnected from the people that Are there, that it doesn't phase them. So you should never stop caring, and you should be balanced in your desire to help such people, but never is it your fault or responsibility. At the end of the day each person makes their own choices.
Click to expand...
Yes I know why what was said to me was said and that all you have said is true.
But, I also truly believe acts of kindness can go further than people think....
They did for me
 
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TemporaryCircumstances

Guest
#5
#5
Tinuviel said:
Oh God, no! Those statistics break my heart :'(

YOU by yourself really can do nothing for these people. But who knows what God can do through us? The past...is past. There is no use revisiting it. But the future is ours to improve upon the past. As Christians, we should ALWAYS be looking for opportunities to show kindness to another. It is a good heads-up for ALL of us. But you cannot think that you have somehow failed God by not speaking to these people. That somehow something you would have said might have kept them from harming themselves. God is in control, even of this seemingly senseless ruin and wretchedness. He WILL be glorified. SDG
Click to expand...
In a way I believe that.
I think people can point and lead people to God who ultimately can help.


I do not think I have failed God.
I think I have failed myself, yes. I'm not gonna lie and say I've forgiven myself or moved foward to believing it wasn't my fault for some of the people I used to know.
But, I do think as Christians we can at least try to point to God and show them the hope he provides.


God doesn't want them to kill themselves why would he leave a hopeless situation?
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#6
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
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#6
Speaking from firsthand experience with suicide, and as a person who has lost family members to it, if a person is determined to end their life, NO ONE can stop them or "talk them out of it". All of my suicide attempts were because of emotional issues that occurred during my life. Luckily, I chickened out. lol.. But if someone is serious about doing it, then no amount of talking OR praying will stop them.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#7
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
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#7
TemporaryCircumstances said:
In a way I believe that.
I think people can point and lead people to God who ultimately can help.


I do not think I have failed God.
I think I have failed myself, yes. I'm not gonna lie and say I've forgiven myself or moved foward to believing it wasn't my fault for some of the people I used to know.
But, I do think as Christians we can at least try to point to God and show them the hope he provides.


God doesn't want them to kill themselves why would he leave a hopeless situation?
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as a "hopeless situation". God puts us in these situations so that we will (hopefully) turn to him and allow him to give us hope that there IS another way out. :)
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#8
Feb 21, 2014
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#8
blue_ladybug said:
There is no such thing as a "hopeless situation". God puts us in these situations so that we will (hopefully) turn to him and allow him to give us hope that there IS another way out. :)
Click to expand...

Thank you for the rep, Natania. It is truly appreciated.. :)
 
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Ugly

Guest
#10
#10
TemporaryCircumstances said:
Yes I know why what was said to me was said and that all you have said is true.
But, I also truly believe acts of kindness can go further than people think....
They did for me
Click to expand...
I never said they didn't. I simply stated that with Some people they won't be affected.
 
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TemporaryCircumstances

Guest
#11
#11
HS

HS

Senior Member
#12
Jul 3, 2016
672
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#12
Sometimes yes being there for them can help mild cases but when a person is fully committed to suicide then only God can intervene sometimes at the last possible minute. With me God was the one that pulled me through. Nobody cared enough to help me through. Ultimately God is the only source of life and people are only there to help Him. Do be there for them if you can but if they do it anyway it's not your fault.
 
Demi777

Demi777

Senior Member
#13
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
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#13
You know.. the last thing my native american friend posted before he died of cancer was '' please do unto other people good small things..Its the little things that count the most and make the happiest''
I truly believe that people need someone no matter what that gives that spark. I agree with u. Thats a reason why I always randomly message friends and stuff. Life if over so fast.. A ex classmate died in a car accident with 15...
Just remember that even when that person dies, suicical or not..its never your fault. I remember when I was cutting my wrist and my mom caught me and thought it was her fault..its never a persons.. its the enemy who makes you wanna stop and never an action of another.
 
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TemporaryCircumstances

Guest
#14
#14
Demi777 said:
You know.. the last thing my native american friend posted before he died of cancer was '' please do unto other people good small things..Its the little things that count the most and make the happiest''
I truly believe that people need someone no matter what that gives that spark. I agree with u. Thats a reason why I always randomly message friends and stuff. Life if over so fast.. A ex classmate died in a car accident with 15...
Just remember that even when that person dies, suicical or not..its never your fault. I remember when I was cutting my wrist and my mom caught me and thought it was her fault..its never a persons.. its the enemy who makes you wanna stop and never an action of another.
Click to expand...
Yes, thank you for your answer Demi. And sharing all of that.
Gbu :)
 
Fenner

Fenner

Senior Member
#16
Jan 26, 2013
7,507
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#16
Wow, temporary circumstances, I'm not sure what to say. I'm sorry.
I'm not a conspiracy type person, but has there been something going on, like cyber bullying? I'm not trying to be nasty asking that, it's just that's a lot of kid's, from the same group.

I want to say, please don't blame yourself. I understand the what if, but sometimes even when we help it might not work. I'm sure when you see a friend in need you do your best to help.
 
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TemporaryCircumstances

Guest
#17
#17
Fenner said:
Wow, temporary circumstances, I'm not sure what to say. I'm sorry.
I'm not a conspiracy type person, but has there been something going on, like cyber bullying? I'm not trying to be nasty asking that, it's just that's a lot of kid's, from the same group.

I want to say, please don't blame yourself. I understand the what if, but sometimes even when we help it might not work. I'm sure when you see a friend in need you do your best to help.
Click to expand...
We don't know,
I have begged my pastor to let me go to the meetings for this and we honestly have no idea why this is happening to so many students.
We are trying our best to figure it out though.


I'm trying not to blame myself :) thanks
 
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Ultimatum77

Guest
#18
#18
TemporaryCircumstances said:
We don't know,
I have begged my pastor to let me go to the meetings for this and we honestly have no idea why this is happening to so many students.
We are trying our best to figure it out though.


I'm trying not to blame myself :) thanks
Click to expand...
Maybe they are involved in some occultic practices that have invited demons of suicide into the people? Some kids think the ouija board is all fun and games and even Christian kids do this but it invites demonic spirits into their lives....
Also, it's possible that some devil worshippers may have hexed your church to target the youth, and there is a bondage hanging over your youth group.....? Maybe your youth group should fast and pray for revelation as to the root cause of this problem and also to draw close to God and break this bondage?

That number itself is way to high and shows that something sinister is hanging around your youth group and needs to be dismissed from it.....
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#19
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#19
I think kids especially, are more sensitive to life events than most adults are. Meaning they may feel more hopeless and not know of another way to solve their problem(s).. So many of the kids here on CC are either suicidal, have thought about it, or attempted it, and a good deal even self-harm. Kids may not be equipped with the knowlege that suicide isn't the solution, or the ONLY solution. All they know is they want the pain and trauma to stop, by any means possible. Whether it's suicide, alcohol, drugs, etc..
 
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TemporaryCircumstances

Guest
#20
#20
Ultimatum77 said:
Maybe they are involved in some occultic practices that have invited demons of suicide into the people? Some kids think the ouija board is all fun and games and even Christian kids do this but it invites demonic spirits into their lives....
Also, it's possible that some devil worshippers may have hexed your church to target the youth, and there is a bondage hanging over your youth group.....? Maybe your youth group should fast and pray for revelation as to the root cause of this problem and also to draw close to God and break this bondage?

That number itself is way to high and shows that something sinister is hanging around your youth group and needs to be dismissed from it.....
Click to expand...
Maybe I don't know.
I'll bring it up next time I go to church
 
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