emergency contraception warning

[dmdave17]

That's like saying you're a killer if you do artificial insemination. B/c they fertilize the eggs THEN place them in the woman. No, it's not a life AT ALL when it's just a fertilized egg not attached to anything.

And you know this, because .......?

 

[AnandaHya]

I agree with the first part of that. And for that reason most Christian couples will not use that.
There are entire businesses set up to provide homes for those unused eggs. And it is considered adoption.

Genetically it is life. Morally it is murder to kill them.

First are you really 94? you don't look that old in your picture.

Next you use the term murder too loosely. If a person's body causes them to miscarry the baby, would that be murder? And you already stated that if it was harmful to the mother it would be ok to have an abortion, would the woman be murdering the baby then? sacrificing it for her life?

genetically bacteria is life but no one says anything about killing it when you cook chicken.

The question is when does GOD breath spirit or soul into a human child and when is the material body made to be spiritually alive not just biologically living?

 

[SonOfAdam]

First are you really 94? you don't look that old in your picture.

Next you use the term murder too loosely. If a person's body causes them to miscarry the baby, would that be murder? And you already stated that if it was harmful to the mother it would be ok to have an abortion, would the woman be murdering the baby then? sacrificing it for her life?

genetically bacteria is life but no one says anything about killing it when you cook chicken.

The question is when does GOD breath spirit or soul into a human child and when is the material body made to be spiritually alive not just biologically living?

I'm 30. Before this one I had 94 posts. Not my age.

If the body causes it then it is unintentional, unwilling and unconscious killing of the baby. And usually unaware also. The baby dies... something kills it. Same applies to a bug freezing in winter, but as you have pointed out there is a difference between naphesh life (genesis, animals) and humans.

I, and most other Christaisns, believe the soul is present from the moment of conception.

 

[FSUBoy966]

I'm 30. Before this one I had 94 posts. Not my age.

If the body causes it then it is unintentional, unwilling and unconscious killing of the baby. And usually unaware also. The baby dies... something kills it. Same applies to a bug freezing in winter, but as you have pointed out there is a difference between naphesh life (genesis, animals) and humans.

I, and most other Christaisns, believe the soul is present from the moment of conception.

I don't.
It doesn't say the soul is present at all anywhere in the Bible.
I personally believe the soul enters the child at birth, regardless of how that is. Two souls inhabiting one body (the baby inside the mother) is an idea that is a little to pagany for me. This is why I'm pro-choice. People will argue "Well, what if that person was gonna grow up to be president or the pope or the person who cures AIDS?" Well, what if they're gonna be the one who commits the next genocide, or a rapist? A fetus isn't a person, and I don't think it has a soul until it leaves the mother.

 

[SonOfAdam]

So the fact that the psalmist speaks of God knitting him in his mother's womb, and how John the baptist while in the womb was filled with the Holy Spirit and recognised and lept for joy at the sound of Mary's voice.... that is all ignored? ah k.

 

[FSUBoy966]

I would like verses, please. Saying something is in the Bible is legitimate until I see it. And the verses around it. It's easy to say "oh the Bible says this" but the verse before it and after it might illegitimize that line COMPLETELY. So, please, provide scripture.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I would like verses, please. Saying something is in the Bible is legitimate until I see it. And the verses around it. It's easy to say "oh the Bible says this" but the verse before it and after it might illegitimize that line COMPLETELY. So, please, provide scripture.

Jeremiah 1


1 The words of Jeremiah son of Hilkiah, one of the priests at Anathoth in the territory of Benjamin. 2 The word of the LORD came to him in the thirteenth year of the reign of Josiah son of Amon king of Judah, 3 and through the reign of Jehoiakim son of Josiah king of Judah, down to the fifth month of the eleventh year of Zedekiah son of Josiah king of Judah, when the people of Jerusalem went into exile.

The Call of Jeremiah

4 The word of the LORD came to me, saying,

5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
6 “Alas, Sovereign LORD,” I said, “I do not know how to speak; I am too young.”
7 But the LORD said to me, “Do not say, ‘I am too young.’ You must go to everyone I send you to and say whatever I command you. 8 Do not be afraid of them, for I am with you and will rescue you,” declares the LORD.
9 Then the LORD reached out his hand and touched my mouth and said to me, “I have put my words in your mouth. 10 See, today I appoint you over nations and kingdoms to uproot and tear down, to destroy and overthrow, to build and to plant.”
11 The word of the LORD came to me: “What do you see, Jeremiah?”
“I see the branch of an almond tree,” I replied.
12 The LORD said to me, “You have seen correctly, for I am watching[b] to see that my word is fulfilled.”
13 The word of the LORD came to me again: “What do you see?”
“I see a pot that is boiling,” I answered. “It is tilting toward us from the north.”
14 The LORD said to me, “From the north disaster will be poured out on all who live in the land. 15 I am about to summon all the peoples of the northern kingdoms,” declares the LORD.
“Their kings will come and set up their thrones
in the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem;
they will come against all her surrounding walls
and against all the towns of Judah.
16 I will pronounce my judgments on my people
because of their wickedness in forsaking me,
in burning incense to other gods
and in worshiping what their hands have made. 17 “Get yourself ready! Stand up and say to them whatever I command you. Do not be terrified by them, or I will terrify you before them. 18 Today I have made you a fortified city, an iron pillar and a bronze wall to stand against the whole land—against the kings of Judah, its officials, its priests and the people of the land. 19 They will fight against you but will not overcome you, for I am with you and will rescue you,”

For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.

1 You have searched me, LORD,
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
4 Before a word is on my tongue
you, LORD, know it completely.
5 You hem me in behind and before,
and you lay your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.
7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,”
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to me are your thoughts,[a] God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand—
when I awake, I am still with you. 19 If only you, God, would slay the wicked!
Away from me, you who are bloodthirsty!
20 They speak of you with evil intent;
your adversaries misuse your name.
21 Do I not hate those who hate you, LORD,
and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?
22 I have nothing but hatred for them;
I count them my enemies.
23 Search me, God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.

A song of ascents. Of Solomon.

1 Unless the LORD builds the house,
the builders labor in vain.
Unless the LORD watches over the city,
the guards stand watch in vain.
2 In vain you rise early
and stay up late,
toiling for food to eat—
for he grants sleep to[a] those he loves. 3 Children are a heritage from the LORD,
offspring a reward from him.
4 Like arrows in the hands of a warrior
are children born in one’s youth.
5 Blessed is the man
whose quiver is full of them.
They will not be put to shame
when they contend with their opponents

inb4 "horribly mistranslated"

 

[jimmydiggs]

Next you'll call masturbators murderers...

No, but Monty Python did. Every sperm is a sacred sperm.

 

[cuddlyalmond]

you're all missing the point of this thread. this isn't a debate on abortion. it's to let people understand that this drug is potentially harmful to a developing baby. it's to let people spread the word of this news. if you're not going to spread the word please start a thread of your own on "is contraception abortion" because i've heard all this before.

 

[FSUBoy966]

you're all missing the point of this thread. this isn't a debate on abortion. it's to let people understand that this drug is potentially harmful to a developing baby. it's to let people spread the word of this news. if you're not going to spread the word please start a thread of your own on "is contraception abortion" because i've heard all this before.

If a woman is taking plan B, most of the time she doesn't want to have the baby in the first place. So I don't think the well being of a fetus is her main concern.

 

[wolfywolfs]

why else would they be taking it

 

[cuddlyalmond]

the website wouldn't post a frequently asked question of "does it harm the baby" if it wasn't a main concern. if people are being told "it won't harm the baby" everyone will use it as there's nothing to lose. on the other hand, if they're told "yes there is a risk that it will harm the baby" i believe alot of people would think twice about using it as it has consequences. let me put it to you this way, if there was $100 in the middle of the street with the road blocked you'd take it. if there was $100 in the middle of the street with a steady stream of fast traffic, you'd weigh up the risks with the reward.

 

[next_step]

I personally believe the soul enters the child at birth, regardless of how that is. Two souls inhabiting one body (the baby inside the mother) is an idea that is a little to pagany for me.

Blind faith?

 

[FSUBoy966]

Blind faith?

Everything is blind faith. You just have to weigh what is worth believing (God, Jesus, my personal beliefs) and what isn't worth believing.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Everything is blind faith. You just have to weigh what is worth believing (God, Jesus, my personal beliefs) and what isn't worth believing.

So faith is really just personal preference?


According to the bible, the soul exists prior to birth.

 

[FSUBoy966]

So faith is really just personal preference?


According to the bible, the soul exists prior to birth.

Isn't it? When you read the Bible, Qaran, Buddhist scripture or any other religious text, don't you (and everyone of every faith) decide if THIS is something they should invest their heart in? All faith is opinion. Even in Christianity alone, we have 2156357824734754835 denominations, that started mostly b/c of one or two scriptural differences. There are obviously huge differences (catholic to lutheran to baptist to quaker to united church of christ to methodist to pentecostal) but there are MANY types of "baptists" and many types of "methodists" so on and so on. All religion is, is what you believe.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Isn't it?

Yours might be, but I strive to be certain that mine is not about personal preference. There are many things in the bible I would prefer not be there, but must accept them. Examples would be pretty much anything the bible declares to be a sin.

When you read the Bible, Qaran, Buddhist scripture or any other religious text, don't you (and everyone of every faith) decide if THIS is something they should invest their heart in?

Depends on how you are deciding. You should always examine a religion or any worldview before coming to accept it. To cite an example, I almost couldn't believe that Christ was the messiah due to some Jewish publications I read. I was concerned that Christianity might be a fabrication, QuestionTime and I had an email exchange, and he helped with that. I've also tried to study some apologetics whenever I can, which further secures my standings.

All faith is opinion.

Yours might be, but I try to ground mine in something I can defend. This is why I try to study a little bit of apologetics when I have time, or if an issue comes up or something I knew nothing of before, I try to study some of the issue to have an understanding, and basic defense prepared.

Even in Christianity alone, we have 2156357824734754835 denominations, that started mostly b/c of one or two scriptural differences. There are obviously huge differences (catholic to lutheran to baptist to quaker to united church of christ to methodist to pentecostal) but there are MANY types of "baptists" and many types of "methodists" so on and so on.

Since you will likely ignore this post, I ask that you atleast read this.

10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas[b]”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Also check out 1 Cor 12:12-31

All religion is, is what you believe.

I didn't say it wasn't belief. You can build a good foundation, but ultimately it is belief that finishes the job. That doesn't mean however we should build a worldview based on personal preference. We should build a worldview on truth.

 

[next_step]

Everything is blind faith. You just have to weigh what is worth believing (God, Jesus, my personal beliefs) and what isn't worth believing.

This is a serious misconception if the biblical idea of faith.

We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eye-witnesses of his majesty. 2. Peter 1:16

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile 1. Corinthians 15:17


The notion of biblical faith implies first and foremost trust in God and is grounded in reality.

What you describe is called fideism. "I know that I know that I am knower" The problem is that it elevates human beings to the sole source of knowledge. My sentiments and arbitrary feelings determine what is true and false. Thus God becomes subject to my psychological disposition. At the end of the day faith is self-delusion and designed to make me feel better. Serious moral problems are easily solved by believing what makes me feel comfortable.

 

[thimsrebma]

the website wouldn't post a frequently asked question of "does it harm the baby" if it wasn't a main concern. if people are being told "it won't harm the baby" everyone will use it as there's nothing to lose. on the other hand, if they're told "yes there is a risk that it will harm the baby" i believe alot of people would think twice about using it as it has consequences. let me put it to you this way, if there was $100 in the middle of the street with the road blocked you'd take it. if there was $100 in the middle of the street with a steady stream of fast traffic, you'd weigh up the risks with the reward.

I'm sorry but I still don't get the logic here.

If Susie has unprotected sex and the next day she gets Plan B or the morning after pill she is INTENDING ON KILLING or PEVENTING the pregnancy. Susie does not care if it harms the baby. In fact that's what she wants.
The warnings about birth defects are just to let you know that if the fetus doesn't die, then it could possibly have some serious issues.