Feminism, is this just me?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
N

Nemakiza

Guest
#41
I feel like the feminist movement was won, and I am glad it is... I honestly am: women can vote, have equal salary if they do equal work, and obtain higher education.

However, a few days ago I was watching the news with my little sister and there was a girl wrestling boys in highshool. So I asked her "Do you think she should be allowed to wrestle boys".
My sister said "Why shouldn't she be able to wrestle them, we are equal". And to be honest she seem mad at me even asking her that.
I then said" I don't know about you, but if I was wrestling a girl I would treat her differently because I would have to touch areas that I am not supposed too in order to win. I don't think she should be able to roll around on the ground with a bunch of hormonal boys in the name of equality".
When she didn't answer I said "I don't want to fight I just want to hear your thoughts, and see what you think..."
And she said in a defeated tone"I think your right..."...

It seems to me that feminism has turned from civil rights, and became a Genesis 3 event.

Now, I don't want to sound chauvinistic; however, I am seeing this "psychology" of a war of the sexes much like war of political views and war of races... Am I just culture shocked, and behind the times, or what?
If a man feels inappropriate touching a woman private body parts during wrestling, then, I will call him a pervert, why? because she will also touch your private body parts that will make her horny, most of time women ignore this, but a good guy will never see this as a matter of concern rather a game. Men make excuses every day concerning women body that is why feminism should address all matters that hinder women rights including this of how men view women body.

for example, I am deaf, while I am talking with someone I look their lips so to catch their words, but most of the time men react completely different. They feel like I am into them, oouch It bored so much. I just wish they could change their attitude.
 
Last edited:
Feb 1, 2015
1,198
15
0
#42
Women is a special interest group for politicians to pander to in order to establish them as a voting base. All hail women. ;)
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#43
When I trained Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, our adult classes were mixed so I trained (or "rolled" as we called it) with both men and women four times a week for two to three hours each time.

The potential for problems is definitely present in a training environment where men and women are grappling with each other.

Any instructor worth training under must recognize the potential for problems and mitigate them ahead of time through strong leadership and example, clear communications with all students, organizational policy, and nurturing an environment and culture of total respect with professionalism (e.g. the skill, good judgment, and polite behavior that is expected from a person who is trained to do a job well).

Myself, I enjoyed having women present in the class and training with them and (in my opinion) a distinct advantage they brought was affording us men the opportunity to learn how to attack and defend against women who possess a somewhat different set of physiological attributes.

I always had a high respect for these women who had the fortitude to skip the bars, the nightclubs, the hedonism and commit to regimen of disciplined training in a mixed martial arts grappling environment against males and females week in and week out. Though primarily of blue collar working class background, I never met a lemon in the bunch with respect to those females.

And, of course, we had a gifted instructor where I trained. He wasn't simply a Pan-American black belt champion under the Gracies but was also a Christian who had earned a master's degree in psychology. For the beginning, intermediate, and first degree black belt: you couldn't ask for a better instructor. He had an innate sense of where each of his students were at in their head and heart as well as their technical ability and knew how to interact with them to mitigate the bad and develop the good.

However, for many reasons, I do not believe teenagers should be training wrestling or wrestling against each other in junior high or high school sports programs.


If you can't handle it because of your 'hormones' the problem lies with you and you shouldn't go anywhere near a mixed wrestling match. In principal it should be possible for a man and woman to wrestle together though, if they're focused on the sportive activity ONLY, without any sexual thoughts.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#44
'Stand by Your Manhood: A Game-Changer for Modern Men' by Peter Lloyd

"British journalist Peter Lloyd has written a very original and enjoyable analysis of the state of men in today’s society. The book starts with a bang. Perhaps this excerpt will give you a sense of the author’s unique combination of deadpan humor and bitter truths: “Being a man is brilliant…. Except for ... circumcision, paying the bill, becoming a weekend father… oh, and those pesky early deaths. Suicide isn’t much of a laugh either. Nor is paternity fraud, schools failing boys, military conscription, conception by deception, the criminal sentencing gap, coughing up 70 per cent of income tax, dominating homeless statistics…”

There is lots of other new information here including details on London’s 2014 men’s festival, “Being A Man.” Lloyd does not deny that there are certain advantages to being male. “But we also have our own issues of everyday sexism: denied parental rights; left to die years earlier than women…; and casually packed off to war like mules.” Lloyd also mentions the inconvenient and little known fact that an astounding eighty percent of the 5.7 million jobs lost by Americans during the 2007-2009 economic crunch were held by men.

Lloyd’s humor helps soften the blows; he writes, “In the Oppression Olympics [women would] be Usain Bolt.” Yet in the end the pain remains of men who justly complain being “[w]ritten off as misogynists for daring to demand a fair deal.”

In fact, the author has tons of great one liners. Andrea Dworkin “seemingly had a chip on each shoulder to balance herself out.” Men had “been criticised non-stop for about half a century, so were probably due a right to reply.” One of my favorites: “And here’s the bit nobody else will admit: loads of girls do want to get pregnant…. I’d get pregnant for a free house!” Here is a sad yet deft summary of the state of things: “the resentment traditionally reserved for men has slid down the life continuum scale to boys,” and boys are now being “treated like defective girls.” Again, it was reported “that ‘Two hundred people died this afternoon—including seventy-four women and three children.’ Oh right. And who were the others? Extras from The Muppet Show?”

Lloyd spends a good amount of time exploring the largely neglected topic of ridicule of our private parts for allegedly not measuring up. Later he explodes the myth that somehow men’s interest in pornography is a problem. Moreover, women who choose to model in men’s magazines ironically find themselves being criticized by feminists for their choices. “Quite frankly, if feminism is about making choices, why are feminists the only ones trying to take choice away from me?” The author goes on to demonstrate the huge disconnect between views of male and female sexuality, the former of which seems to be seen as “inherently bad.” In a memorable bit of writing, he speculates that Judi Dench might participate in a movie about an older woman who cheats on her husband with a minor. It “will be a cerebral, artistic, empowering examination of the deep-seated sexual and emotional rapids that run at the heart of every woman, whilst the men are off being dirty pervs in raincoats. Give me a break.” So we have reached the point where sadly Peter Wu was recently expelled from Vassar College for sleeping with a woman (!) even though he was never formally charged with an offense.

Similarly, while straight sex clubs are protested, somehow gay sex clubs get off scot-free. “Why are gay men more entrusted with testosterone than their straight brothers?” Lloyd also finally punctures the oddly persistent myth than men peak at age eighteen as badly wide of the mark.

I appreciated the author’s delving into some issues I don’t recall seeing addressed in the 500 or so books about gender that I have read and the 200 that I have reviewed, such as the fact that “efore the 1930s there was no such thing as buying an engagement ring for a future spouse.” Lloyd also discusses a recent study proving that many teenage girls are becoming pregnant on purpose “as a career move because, with both the state and father contributing, it offers more guaranteed security than a job.” One heartbreaking story relates to a recently discovered life-extending prostate cancer drug that was not pursued by the British healthcare authority because it was considered “too expensive” at a price of £100 per person. I don’t remember ever reading before that lesbians actually outearn men, as do never married, childless women, and also the salary gap, to the extent it does exist, opens up at the age of thirty, the same age when the typical woman first becomes pregnant.

Lloyd makes the excellent point that there is no reason to reveal the identity of someone accused of rape before his or her guilt has even been proven. The author also notes that until 1976, the UK had rape trial anonymity for both the alleged victim and the accused.

One basic thing that is done all too infrequently (well, let’s be honest, basically never) is wholesale cheerleading for men’s accomplishments. So here’s more than a paragraph of Lloyd’s take on what males have done to help humanity:
… We invented football, secret intelligence, beer, the internet, philosophy, architecture, cars, trains, helicopters, submarines and the aeroplane. Not to mention email, the jet engine, Polaroids, IVF, parachutes, electricity, solar power and remote controls. We developed modern medicine with the birth of anaesthetic. We’ve led all the industrial revolutions and sent rockets into space. We’ve fought in bloody wars with tin hats and bayonets—and still won.
The world we live in would be nothing without Alan Turing, Alexander Graham Bell, Sigmund Freud, Horatio Nelson, Winston Churchill, Ernest Hemingway and Albert Einstein. Oh, and Jesus was a man.

The chapter on circumcision (more properly, on genital autonomy) is very well done and only makes a couple minor errors that are not important in the scheme of things. He is right on in theorizing that our comfort with disfiguring boys for no good reason is probably partly grounded in our failure to acknowledge children’s future reality as sexual people. “We see our kids as children, never potential sexual beings, so don’t bother to question how [circumcision] may affect their future pleasures.” Lloyd quotes a clueless female Member of Parliament who suggests that if male genitalia were being cut off without anesthetic the procedure would have been stopped immediately. Only problem of course is that partial penile amputation is exactly what circumcision is and it obviously hasn’t been stopped yet.

The author reminds us that despite men committing a resounding 77% of suicides, no one is willing to address this problem as a gender issue because doing so would ostensibly be “sexist.” Even more alarmingly, “there isn’t one person in [the UK but presumably also the US] government who’s responsible for improving men’s health. Not one.” This is indeed a depressing fact. And moreover we still don’t have a prostate cancer screening program, although male deaths from it are now fully four times the number of female deaths from cervical cancer.

Contrary to popular myth, the relative lack of effective self-care by men relative to women only makes a small contribution to the difference between men’s and women’s life expectancies. Lloyd’s sobering conclusion, which I don’t recall ever seeing in print before, is, “Men aren’t dying sooner because they’re ignorant or proud—it’s because the entire system leaves them to rot and, politically, they’re discouraged from doing anything about it.”

This book marks itself as unique in its miraculous tightrope walk that maintains an upbeat, humorous tone while delving into tons of potentially depressing truths about the treatment of masculinity in modern developed world society. Lloyd ably employs his professional skills as a journalist and fearlessly speaks the truth to the world about the sorry state we have built for ourselves. Do not pass “Go,” do not collect a hundred pounds, but go thou immediately to thy local bookseller or website and pick this stunning tome up! You won’t regret it." by J. Steven Svoboda
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#45
Caveat: Peter Lloyd is NOT a Christian. He does NOT align with the Christian worldview. As a result, some of his ideas are not moral such as his understanding of pornography for example. However, the disparities he delves into are worth understanding and represent a growing awareness among men of how unbalanced society has become in its relationship to them. Please remember this when reading his materials.
 
F

FridaysChild

Guest
#46
I hear you. Before the paternal nuclear family model was replaced by the feminist child support model, fathers were in the home mentoring their sons.

But women went to the polls and transitioned marriage from a paternal nuclear family model into a feminist child support model that severely penalizes the decreasing pool of kamikaze males who will still risk it all and say, "I do." About half of first marriages go down in flames (the statistics for divorce rise considerably in subsequent marriages) and spend the next decade or two as the man slave of their ex-wife (who typically starts dating within a year of the divorce if she wasn't already cheating on him). Many of the other half of married men walk on egg shells out of fear of joining their divorced peers.

Of course, increasingly men don't bother with marriage anymore. Why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free. They do a SWOT analysis in their head and see draconian liabilities that extend far into the future with little to no benefit for their lives and say, "I do not."

Marriage is in rapid decline, as a result, and becoming an anachronistic institution. Presently 40.6% of all children born in the U.S. are born to a single mother: FastStats - Unmarried Childbearing and increasingly, if the man does live in the home he's not going to incur the draconian liability of a legal contract that will devastate him for many years when it all goes bad which it does with regularity today.

Studies show the children coming out of the feminist child support model have a lot of problems and are typically much more antichrist in the worldviews they adopt than before.
Please excuse my delay in answering. You posted your comment first so it didn't appear on my notification listing. I'm just now coming across this again.

I believe you are blaming 'women' for what progressive liberals have done. That group is a mixture of both male and female.

But perhaps this is the 'blame game' where Adam tells God that it was the woman he gave who gave him the fruit and he did eat there of?

man up boys

Of course, increasingly men don't bother with marriage anymore. Why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free.
Or could it be that women don't need men to fully survive socially or economically anymore. As you so arrogantly phrased it with 'why buy the cow...?' Which would infer that the woman is a piece of property to be had. Or as if man were the center of all the universe where by woman must identify themselves from him and his foundation for approval or worth.

It's the age old struggle of women to separate themselves from the labels and worn out judgements of men in order to find respect as individuals. The double standards that oppress women need to go down in flames such as - He may have many partners before marriage but if she does then she is consider used goods or even a whore.

Jesus has set us free.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#47
No excuse necessary. Reply as it's convenient for you to do so.

So you're blaming me for blaming women and also for using a colloquialism? Lol. There is no possible way that the liberal feminist agenda could have been implemented to the degree that it has in our society, under our form of government, unless a majority bloc of both women and men voters supported it. So, I agree with you.

While I should have said "men and women" instead of "women" went to the polls, it's understood that without the strong support of women we would not be in the situation we find ourselves today as the primary bloc of voters for liberal feminism statistically did come from women with men being split. This, of course, shouldn't come as a surprise as women were the ones benefitting from the legislative and societal changes.

However those benefits are now producing a quantifiable diseconomies of scale for both genders and their children reported in many scholarly studies. But there will be no "manning up" under the lopsided anti-male terms of the present legal marriage contract which denuded the benefits for men while increasing their liabilities over many years and put the divorced male in an almost powerless and very undesirable state to be in.

Now factor in an entire laundry list of lost independence, personal freedom, and privileges a young male forfeits if they do marry and the collapse of stigma that once accompanied singlehood. But keep factoring. The married father has lost tremendous respect in our culture and is and has been the target of ridicule in the liberal media for many years.

For all these reasons and many more, the current trend away from marriage is expected to continue. This is clearly evident in the polling results. For example, Pew Research reports that seventy percent of American males between the ages of 20 and 34 are not married and only half of them state they intend to ever marry in their lifetimes.

You can't shame a man into a negative legal contract anymore that will materially deprive him of his parental rights, turn him into a human wallet for up to two decades after you divorce him leaving him under the threat of incarceration should he enter the ranks of the poor (loss of job/career, develop health issues, etc...) while you simply move on to the next man (or woman as sometimes occurs).

You can say whatever you want about it but it will change nothing. Most of the next generation of young men have already decided not to accept a lopsided legal contract with few benefits, enormous long-term liabilities, enormous statistical risk, and a negative cultural stigma that views the married man as the butt of liberal media ridicule.

Man up? That's not going to happen. Just the opposite is happening, has been happening for a long time now, and is projected to continue increasing.

So, the question really is how will the voters respond to this and do so in a fiscal environment in which "discretionary government funding" in federal and state budgets is dramatically reduced. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) recently reported this is going to happen for many reasons including the interest payments on the U.S. national debt tripling over the next decade from the more than $400 million paid out in 2014.

It's all going to get very interesting in the next two decades as the feminist child support model liberals implemented over the protests of hardline conservative Christians like myself becomes both impossible to fund through government taxation and spending in the manner which it has been for decades at the same time young men turn away from the life liberal feminists intended them to live.



Please excuse my delay in answering. You posted your comment first so it didn't appear on my notification listing. I'm just now coming across this again.

I believe you are blaming 'women' for what progressive liberals have done. That group is a mixture of both male and female.

But perhaps this is the 'blame game' where Adam tells God that it was the woman he gave who gave him the fruit and he did eat there of?

man up boys

Or could it be that women don't need men to fully survive socially or economically anymore. As you so arrogantly phrased it with 'why buy the cow...?' Which would infer that the woman is a piece of property to be had. Or as if man were the center of all the universe where by woman must identify themselves from him and his foundation for approval or worth.

It's the age old struggle of women to separate themselves from the labels and worn out judgements of men in order to find respect as individuals. The double standards that oppress women need to go down in flames such as - He may have many partners before marriage but if she does then she is consider used goods or even a whore.

Jesus has set us free.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#48

ArtsieSteph

Senior Member
Apr 1, 2014
6,194
1,319
113
33
Arizona
#49
I feel like the feminist movement was won, and I am glad it is... I honestly am: women can vote, have equal salary if they do equal work, and obtain higher education.

However, a few days ago I was watching the news with my little sister and there was a girl wrestling boys in highshool. So I asked her "Do you think she should be allowed to wrestle boys".
My sister said "Why shouldn't she be able to wrestle them, we are equal". And to be honest she seem mad at me even asking her that.
I then said" I don't know about you, but if I was wrestling a girl I would treat her differently because I would have to touch areas that I am not supposed too in order to win. I don't think she should be able to roll around on the ground with a bunch of hormonal boys in the name of equality".
When she didn't answer I said "I don't want to fight I just want to hear your thoughts, and see what you think..."
And she said in a defeated tone"I think your right..."...

It seems to me that feminism has turned from civil rights, and became a Genesis 3 event.

Now, I don't want to sound chauvinistic; however, I am seeing this "psychology" of a war of the sexes much like war of political views and war of races... Am I just culture shocked, and behind the times, or what?

Honestly I totally agree with you. And you're not being chauvinistic, you're right. There are so many differing signals and double standards to what people call feminism.

Take the wrestling example. If guy wrestles a guy they can grab wherever and pin the guy, well if it's a woman then there is the possibility of accidentally grabbing breasts or getting faces in awkward areas. I mean I think it's weird enough with a guy and a guy in a scissor hold having to have his face in another dude's groin, let alone a woman. And at that point it becomes a weird almost near sexual thing, and at that point a boy may become too aggressive with the girl. And if a guy DID manage to treat her like he'd treat a guy, the breast are a good area to get a hold of a person and throw em down. And at that point it would be the ref treating the girl different because she was a girl.

Plus we girls aren't totally innocent, have you seen girls fight? Men seem to fight in order to drop the other and defeat them quickest, women go for pain. So most likely there would be more painful surface injuries. And if women are anything like me, physical things become personal, which may or may not happen with men. They do get caught in the moment, but some women might take it outside the ring.
 

Stuey

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2009
892
4
18
#50
Oh, you're a brave, brave man raising this topic...
 
T

twamps21

Guest
#52
As a female I think we are pretty much equal in society. It's clear in the Bible that God made men and women different. We can still be equal with different qualities, I think that's why marriage is such a beautiful thing(if you meet the right person). For example men tend to he more aggressive and quick tempered while women are more gentle and empathetic. To much of either is bad but the right balance is great. I realize that their exceptions and that was stereotypical but its just one example.

I agree with you on the whole wrestling thing as well. I think its awesome when a girl wants to participate in a male dominated sport such as wrestling flexibility probably would help in escaping certain holds even. But I think its unfair on both sides because even if a guy is not trying to be sexist I think he's going to treat her different. And it's not fair to her that she doesn't get a real match. Ideally there would be a female team but unfortunately there's not enough females brave enough.

I think we should never settle for less than we deserve but I'm with you I think we're pretty equal. But you're always going to have someone that gets overly offended by a harmless "kitchen" joke
 
Nov 25, 2014
942
44
0
#53
But you're always going to have someone that gets overly offended by a harmless "kitchen" joke

It's easy to be flip about these kinds of jokes when you're speaking from a position of privilege. There are a couple of generations of youngish to young women who have benefited from the work done by other women to create greater access to education and jobs. These were women who had more limited choices and who genuinely sacrificed to make all your choices possible. So, yeah, from here it's easy to be flip. Kind of like how it's easy to make flip jokes about police dogs and firehoses if you weren't the civil rights activists affected by them.

However, it's a failure of empathy to imply that these people are "overly offended." Perhaps instead, some people are "overly privileged" or "overly forgetful."
 
T

twamps21

Guest
#54
It's easy to be flip about these kinds of jokes when you're speaking from a position of privilege. There are a couple of generations of youngish to young women who have benefited from the work done by other women to create greater access to education and jobs. These were women who had more limited choices and who genuinely sacrificed to make all your choices possible. So, yeah, from here it's easy to be flip. Kind of like how it's easy to make flip jokes about police dogs and firehoses if you weren't the civil rights activists affected by them.

However, it's a failure of empathy to imply that these people are "overly offended." Perhaps instead, some people are "overly privileged" or "overly forgetful."
I definitely see where your comming from and do appreciate all the women who made sacrifices for me so I can do things, like have my job in management over men. I think it just depends on the context. If someone is simply making a joke, I think that it is a waste of our time to make a huge deal out of it. There are so many better things we can direct our attention on on, like spreading God's word. I think its important not to forget our past but to let go of anger we hold from it.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#55
No, I'm brave for speaking the truth about this topic to a generation that attacks anyone who dares to.

Oh, you're a brave, brave man raising this topic...
 
T

Tankman131

Guest
#56
*shivers* feminists and social justice warriors have made privledge into a cringe worthy word that makes it very difficult to take a conversation seriously.
 

Parody

Junior Member
Jun 4, 2013
3
0
1
#57
I definitely see where your comming from and do appreciate all the women who made sacrifices for me so I can do things, like have my job in management over men. I think it just depends on the context. If someone is simply making a joke, I think that it is a waste of our time to make a huge deal out of it. There are so many better things we can direct our attention on on, like spreading God's word. I think its important not to forget our past but to let go of anger we hold from it.
The 'harmless kitchen' joke is more than just a joke. It belittles women's value. This joke is usually told in context when a woman is offering her opinion. Basically, it say's that her opinion is useless because she is nothing but a cook and house keeper. The only 'joke' worse than the kitchen joke is period jokes.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#58
If you're a male, do yourself a favor and listen to this entire interview:

[video=youtube;L8Raufh8fP8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Raufh8fP8[/video]