each is to die of their own sins

[Skinski7]

were our debts just nailed to a Cross?
WHO WAS NAILED TO A CROSS?

WHY WAS HE?

Yes they were nailed to the cross. Jesus bore our sins upon His body and DIED. Likewise when we DIE WITH CHRIST we die to sin. It is through "dying WITH Christ" (being baptised into His death) that our old man is crucified WITH HIM whereby the body of sin DESTROYED.

Thus those who partake in Christ's suffering cease from sin (1Pet 4:1) for they die to that which held them in bondage to the service of sin. in other words we no longer walk according to the lusts of men (1Pet 4:2), having escaped the corruption in the world through lust (2Pet 1:4). Then being raised up with Christ to newness of life (Rom 6:4-5, Col 2:12-13) we abide in the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ (Rom 8:2) wereby we are set free from the law of sin and death (basically set free from the service of sin which brings death (Rom 6:23)). Hence we were set free by "obeying from the heart that form of doctrine once delivered" (Rom 6:17-18).

It has NOTHING to do with the penalty due sin being paid by Jesus Christ. He paid a price alright but it was not the penalty due our sin which is ultimately being cast into the Lake of Fire.

Jesus suffered on our behalf not in our place. He suffered on our behalf so we could follow Him and suffer with Him and thus find reconciliation to God THROUGH Him because as the Second Adam God finds Jesus Christ worthy. Thus we are also found worthy IN Him.

We were enslaved in Egypt (sin) and Jesus came and ransomed us from that slavery leaving us with the CHOICE to leave Egypt and go serve a new master in which is found life, or to remain in service to the old master in which is found death.

 

[Skinski7]

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1Pe 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
1Pe 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
1Pe 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

 

[RickShafer]

Skinski - "It has NOTHING to do with the penalty due sin being paid by Jesus Christ. He paid a price alright but it was not the penalty due our sin which is ultimately being cast into the Lake of Fire.
Jesus suffered on our behalf not in our place."

This total heresy.
The pelagian half redemption.
Look it up folks: all are totally without hope : Romans 3:9-18, 23; Romans 6:23
Jesus as the substitutionary atonement: 1 Peter 2:24 ;1 Peter 3:18; Isaiah 53:5; 2 Corinthians 5:21

 

[starfield]

I do believe that those who have been reconciled are under a blood covenant with God through Jesus Christ and that we are reconciled to God through repentance and faith via Christ's atoning work. Such things do not mean "Penal Substitution" is true.

That's good to know.

Penal Substitution teaches that Jesus stood in your place and was thus punished in your place. The wrath of God was thus SATISFIED and is thus is no longer due. This twists the death of Christ into a purely ABSTRACT legal transaction as the basis of justification.

I guess you disagree with the song “In Christ alone” which state “the wrath of God was satisfied”, eh?

The Bible teaches that the blood of Christ PURGES THE CONSCIENCE whereby the WRATH OF GOD is expiated because God is merciful.

That's right. Amen!

It is in approaching God with a TRUE HEART via the death of the old man (dying with Christ) whereby one has identified themselves with the new man (by walking in the light as He is in the light) that God is willing to wipe away past transgression. MANY people are going to stand at the judgment who remained "workers of iniquity" and Jesus is going to reject them. They never came clean before God, their old man was never crucified and thus they were never TRULY born again. There MUST be a DEATH in order that REBIRTH takes place.

...and the old man is crucified by the power of God for without Him we can do nothing.

Their salvation is based on TRUST IN A PROVISION instead of a literal ABIDING IN THE TRUTH.

I see it as a trusting in Christ's provision as well as actually abiding in the Light, Him, as we are being sanctified. If one is trusting in Christ they are abiding in Him.

The one point I have brought up which you completely ignore Starfied is this...
What about the disobedient who remain under wrath? Did not Jesus absorb the wrath of God as their substitute to? You appear to completely ignore this point.

If the death of Christ was "paying the penalty in full" whereby it is no longer owed anymore then that clearly means that Jesus ONLY died for those whom will be saved but did not die for those who will be lost.

If the wrath of God abides on the disobedient then that means that that wrath WAS NOT satisfied by a PENAL SUBSTITUTE right?

Again Penal Substitution is only 400 years old. It is a RECENT invention of lawyers who added a judicial punishment aspect to Anselm's "justice being satisfied" model.

Anselm = Justice Satsified
Penal = Wrath Satisfied.

In terms of the disobedient, even though Jesus died for them making His blood sufficient to atone for their sins, it isn't efficient until repentance and faith is wrought in their heart.

Skinski7, there's some element of truth in the Penal substitution theory of the atonement, just like there is in some other theories, so I won't be so quick to dismiss it if I were you.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Elin]

I have addresses those question in the past. Use google and search for Skinski7 chritianchat.com and key words from those questions.

I believe you have read my responses previously but simply did not like my answers.

Your answers were non-responsive.

 

[RickShafer]

"I believe you have read my responses previously but simply did not like my answers."

This is the attitude of a judge. (Matt. 7)

"I believe you have read" - Accusing the responder of duplicity.

"but simply did not like my answers." - What utter soul dark.

The problem with self appointed judges is that they are quick to judge, and always wrong.

- - This is why a pharisee will traverse heaven and earth to find ONE disciple, and make him twice the son of hell he is.

 

[svedbygrace]

each is to die of their own sins

Those Jesus Christ died for were one flesh with Him, His Wife the Church. He was her Head and legally Responsible for her.

Eph 5:28-32

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

So in a sense, Christ did die for His own sins, not His Personally, but for the sins of those who were One Flesh with Him.

 

[homwardbound]

Obeying God is not legalism.

Legalism is seeking justification in outward adherence to the law. Paul spoke against legalism in the book of Galatians...

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

The Judaizers were compelling the Galatians to be circumcised thus taking the focus off of the heart to outward rites. In Gal 5:6 Paul says it is FAITH THAT WORKS BY LOVE that matters.

Righteousness is via FAITH not by outward works of the law.

Faith UPHOLDS or ESTABLISHES the law in the heart (Rom 3:31) because FAITH WORK BY LOVE (Gal 5:6) and LOVE WORKS NO ILL (Rom 13:10) thus LOVE IS A FULFILLING OF THE LAW (Rom 13:10, Gal 5:14).

This "righteousness by self" accusation is an oft used STRAWMAN which is used all the time. Paul stated this...

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is the righteousness of God which manifests itself THROUGH a Christian and thus has NOTHING to do with "righteousness by self." The reason you have to resort to strawmen is because you cannot deal with the truth and thus have to create fictional extremes which you can then deride.

Abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ (ie. wholehearted submission to the Spirit) IS NOT subtracting from "reliance on Messiah" it is what true reliance actually is.

Your doctrine of righteousness is PURELY ABSTRACT. In other words you disconnect an actual manifestation of righteousness from the state of salvation and thus make an allowance for ongoing sin.

You theology has completely eliminated HEART PURITY from the Gospel and thus you have to continually argue in favour of double-mindedness and ongoing heart defilement.

Your version of "reliance on Messiah" is not abiding in the Spirit of life of Jesus Christ whereby one fulfills the righteousness of the law in them. No, your version is TRUSTING IN A PROVISION which you perceive as cloaking on ongoing filthy state.

You have swallowed hook, line and sinker Satan's lie of "ya shall not surely die" and not only that, you have also swallowed a new lie of "ye cannot obey God."

If such were not true then you would not speak against heart purity and obedience to Christ.

So by this Skinski are you saying we are using God's grace as an occasion to sin, whenever if ever we sin again?
That we are not in appreciation to God for taking away sin at the cross of Christ, and thus just rampantly sinning as the Corinthians did? Taking it for granted?

Or do you not believe God did take away the sin of the world as John the Baptist said that is what he came to do
John 1:29 [ The Lamb of God ] The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

 

[homwardbound]

Opposite? The wages of sin is death and ultimately being cast into the Lake of Fire. That is a "debt" that God FREELY REMITS to those who are forgiven. That debt is not paid by anyone. Instead of directly addressing the SPECIFIC of what I write you ignore it.
[/COLOR]

So Skinski are you forgiven? and by who? and what do you, or I need to do to get forgiven? and do we need to work to keep forgiven?
It is either we are or we are not forgiven, no middle road, being tossed like a wave in the sea, riding the fence on the picket line, trying to cross over and just can't quite do it on our even asking for God to help us, will not and does not accomplish, crossing over. Only belief in God for God did at the cross for me, you, and anyone that chooses to believe cross over and finish from their works and rest in eternity with God. Some of us are put back here as ambassadors representing the Joy, righteousness, and peace found in God, revealed to us by the Holy Ghost of promise, from the very first day of belief.
It is all God and none of you, me or anyone else, all God's miraculous doing for you
God just love you, believe, see and receive the new life provided for you by God a free gift in the Spirit of God via the resurrection
No other way except to God and die to self with Christ at the death of Christ, so that when one sees themselves as dead to themselves, the flesh, then one might be able to see the new life offered in the resurrection
[h=3]Romans 6:4[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)


[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

If one is dead to self, then there are no works, the dead can't perform works. The new life just does via God not only living in them, but now through them, where no sin can occur since all sin has been condemned to the flesh

[h=3]Romans 8:3[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

 

[homwardbound]

Me in red.

Well you take it up with God, God knows me and I need not prove anything for I know how God has graciously dealt with me and his goodness has changed my thought pattern to trust God in all things for God will never leave me nor forsake me.

So are you saying God leaves and forsakes after God accepts one into the fold, a flesh and Spirit of God is what I hear you a preaching and trying to cover it up well yeah God saves you, but you need to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just as the religious ones of the Law deceived the Galatians, and Paul wrote to correct them
So correct this if this is not what you are saying, you are adding to the free gift, which annuls the free gift of God through Chirst

 

[zone]

this post is a disgrace, SKINSKI

FAITH is counted for righteousness. Not a transfer of the obedient track record of Jesus to you. The Bible does not say that.

faith in WHAT.
just abstract FAITH, huh.
just....FAITH....counted for righteousness.
just believing GOD for...something.

WHAT EXACTLY.

Leviticus 16:16
In this way he will make atonement for the Most Holy Place because of the uncleanness and rebellion of the Israelites, whatever their sins have been. He is to do the same for the tent of meeting, which is among them in the midst of their uncleanness.


Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.


hilaskomai: to be propitious, make propitiation for
Original Word: ἱλάσκομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hilaskomai
Phonetic Spelling: (hil-as'-kom-ahee)
Short Definition: I have mercy on, forgive
Definition: (a) I have mercy on, show favor to, (b) trans. with object of sins: I forgive, pardon.

Cognate: 2433 hiláskomai (akin to 2434 /hilasmós, "propitiation, appeasement/satisfaction of divine wrath on sin") – properly, to extend propitiation, showing mercy by satisfying (literally, propitiating) the wrath of God on sin; "to conciliate, appease, propitiate (so the LXX; see also Thackeray, Gr., 270f quoting from inscriptions and Deiss., BS, 224f)" (Abbott-Smith). See 2434 /hilasmos ("propitiation").

from the same as hileós
Definition
to be propitious, make propitiation for
NASB Translation
make propitiation (1), merciful (1).

STRONGS NT 2433: ἱλάσκομαι

ἱλάσκομαι; (see below); in classical Greek the middle of an act. ἱλάσκω (to render propitious, appease) never met with;

1. to render propitious to oneself, to appease, conciliate to oneself (from ἴλαος gracious, gentle); from Homer down; mostly with the accusative of a person, as Θεόν, Ἀθηνην, etc. (τόν Θεόν ἱλάσασθαι, Josephus, Antiquities 6, 6, 5); very rarely with the accusative of the thing, as τήν ὀργήν, Plutarch, Cat. min. 61 (with which cf. ἐξιλάσκεσθαι θυμόν, Proverbs 16:14 the Sept.). In Biblical Greek used passively, to become propitious, be placated or appeased; in 1 aorist imperative ἱλάσθητι, be propitious, be gracious, be merciful (in secular authors ἱληθι and Doric, ἵλαθι, which the gramm. regard as the present of an unused verb ἵλημι, to be propitious; cf. Alexander Buttmann (1873) Ausf. Sp. ii., p. 206; Kühner, § 343, i., p. 839; Passow, (or Liddell and Scott, or Veitch) under the word ἵλημι), with the dative of the thing or the person: Luke 18:13 (ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις, Psalm 78:9 (); Psalm 87:38 (); τῇ ἁμαρτία, Psalm 24:11 (); ἱλάσθη ὁ κύριος περί τῆς κακίας, Exodus 32:14 Alex.; ἱλασθήσεται κυρίου τῷ δούλῳ σου, 2 Kings 5:18).

2. by an Alexandrian usage, to expiate, make propitiation for (as ἐξιλάσκεσθαι in the O. T.): τάς ἁμαριτας, Hebrews 2:17 (ἡμῶν τάς ψυχάς, Philo, alleg. leg. 3, 61). (Cf. Kurtz, Commentary on Hebrews, at the passage cited; Winer's Grammar, 227 (213); Westcott, Epistles of St. John, p. 83f.)

FAITH is counted for righteousness. Not a transfer of the obedient track record of Jesus to you. The Bible does not say that.

without the òbedient track record of JESUS - theres no ACCEPTABLE SACRIFICE FOR PROPITIATION (appeasing WRATH on sin).

since HE NEVER SINNED - OBEDIENT TRACK RECORD - why was HE PUT TO DEATH

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
1 Peter 3:18

WHY DID THE RIGHTEOUS SUFFER AND DIE FOR THE UNRIGHTEOUS

oh look - it says right here -

to bring you to God

 

[homwardbound]

Indeed a truth.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

God brings us from a state of being dead to a state of being alive. A state of being defiled to a state of being undefiled.

Yet what does modern theology teach in general? That one REMAINS inwardly defiled whereby "sin they will and sin they must" and the being made "alive with Christ" is purely POSITIONAL in application. Thus it is taught that Jesus Christ is a CLOAK for a state of ongoing defilement.

Hence the need of the false theology to teach the Romans wretch who is carnal and sold under sin to be saved. Likewise 1Joh 1:8 is ripped out of context to teach an "ongoing state of sinfulness" in a believer.

Thus heart purity is utterly denied and anyone who contends for purity of heart must be labelled a heretical false teacher.


Satan hates heart purity and knows very well that it is the pure in heart that will see God. Thus Satanic doctrine will always present a methodology of reconciliation which at its root repudiates heart purity.

If Satan can convince people they are saved whilst they remain inwardly defiled then he has basically shut the door to a genuine salvation experience taking place because the deceived individual's mind is set against such a thing.

I am sorry you are preaching here as if we are ones that do not appreciate the grace of God, using this motive to add works, which is a very fine deception on your part, whether you do this on purpose or not you are twisting the word and taking away the power of the cross, most importantly the resurrection
The responders to this miraculous salvation appreciate God and do as God leads, which is Love God's type that no flesh can acquire and or ever do, before salvation belief or after.
Righteousness is God's and God's alone. By belief one is made righteous as a partaker in God's righteousness, not an imitator as it seems you are promoting, which no flesh can imitate without being stressed out to the death of themselves, and when one decides they can't, then the opportunity presents itself to die to self with Christ at the death of Christ as a participator, in agreement with God, that one needs life far beyond the physical, asking for the Spiritual from God and thus forsaking the flesh life more and more as one continues to identify themselves as dead with Christ at the death of Christ. Then the more this takes place our death, the more the new life is revealed to the one that sees themselves as dead to the flesh, then are alive to God in the Spirit of God as today is the only way God can be worshipped in Spirit and truth
John 4:23-24

 

[zone]

Indeed a truth.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

God brings us from a state of being dead to a state of being alive. A state of being defiled to a state of being undefiled.

Yet what does modern theology teach in general? That one REMAINS inwardly defiled whereby "sin they will and sin they must" and the being made "alive with Christ" is purely POSITIONAL in application. Thus it is taught that Jesus Christ is a CLOAK for a state of ongoing defilement.

RUBBISH

you are inwardly defiled TODAY.

RIGHT NOW.

you know how i know.....

BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU ARE NOT.

it is ONLY by His INTERCESSION AS HIGH PRIEST THAT YOU ARE NOT.

ONLY HE was undefiled.

only HIS OBEDIENT LIFE AND PERFECT DEATH is acceptable TO GOD.

you have NOTHING to commend yourself to God without JESUS nanosecond by nanosecond.


...............


go to Saddleback or Joel Osteen or some other place the BLOOD AND GORE AND WHIPPING AND SPITTING AND PULLING OF THE BEARD AND SCOFFING AND NAILS IN THE HANDS AND FEET AND SUFFOCATION ON A CROSS ARE NOT TAUGHT.

go there and talk to THEM about antinomianism or whatever your stupid ongoing charge is.

go to PRISON and preach the GOOD NEWS to murderers.

do something other than LYING about WHOSE OBEDIENCE IS ACCEPTABLE.

it aint YOURS

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

this post is a disgrace, SKINSKI
faith in WHAT.
just abstract FAITH, huh.
just....FAITH....counted for righteousness.
just believing GOD for...something.

WHAT EXACTLY.

Yes he is...

skinski believes that 'faith' is righteousness, or that 'faith' makes one righteous. In other words it's a action, or deed, or work of man that causes one to be righteous. Works of law, plain and simple (albeit very twisted)

The reality, though, is that faith is being persuaded by, placing confidence in, and trusting in GOD's declaration that Christ's righteousness has been imputed to us through the exchange effected by the new covenant in which Christ received the punishment for our sin and we received his righteousness.

 

[homwardbound]

The Pharisees were inwardly defiled and yet thought they were right with God. They sought their status of justification in the "works of the law" and in the "bloodline of Abraham."

The theologians of the present day have made the same basic error. Instead of viewing their status of justification in the "works of the law" or in a "bloodline" they see it in "trusting in a judicial provision."

Both the theology of the Pharisees and the theology of most modern professing Christianity leaves converts inwardly defiled.

There is nothing new under the sun.

so then tell me are you 100% sinless and will never sin again, you can predict the future? I am not by any means saying we have a license to sin, in a way we do, but not as taking this amazing salvation for granted
[h=3]1 John 2[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
it is beyond me why you can't see this as truth, it is done for you, you can be thankful and praise the saviors wonderful work, thanking so much and praising so much that there is no time for any sin, but if you do we have Jesus Christ who makes constant intercession for us, those that really are not desirous of sin.
Romans 8:23
Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

The title is: each is to die of their own sins, so this means to me to die to me, how can I do this? I know be co-crucified with Christ, become a partaker in the cross and quit trying to be an imitator hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! works for me and continues to do so.
Do you believe God through Christ has a gift of Life for us all here on earth? Is a gift a gift if there is any work involved in it?
Can it still be called a gift, if one has to keep themselves right with God by what they do or do not do? As is what I have been hearing what you are posting over and over, mixing God's grace with Law? When the Law is not for the believer anymore.
The Law is for the Lawbreaker and the Lawbreaker is in need of Christ to see what Christ did for them, so they can receive new life, a heart transplant from God, and be one in God, thanking God for eternity for this amazing gift that you seem to refute

 

[homwardbound]

"The Pharisees were inwardly defiled and yet thought they were right with God. "

Thanks,
Couldn't have said it better myself.
That's the outlook of the Pelagian folks.

and what Christ openly revealed in them and they thus went to kill him, because they were not in the spotlight any more and Job security was at risk, for no one was going to Synagogue, they were all chasing after the Messiah, Jesus Christ the righteous, and the leaders were no longer the way, the truth or the life, and were exposed in their hypocrisy
Love it

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Facts that skinski conveniently ignores:

An exchange between two parties is the very nature of a blood covenant. The new covenant is a blood covenant. The root of the Greek word translated reconciliation (as well as the word itself) means exchange (see below). Man is reconciled to GOD through an exchange via the blood covenant, i.e., the everlasting covenant that was cut between GOD and Israel in Christ's blood. Christ became sin. Sin was judged on the cross. We become the righteousness of GOD in Christ.


Reconciliation
G2643 καταλλαγή katallage
1. an exchange
[from G2644]

G2644 καταλλάσσω katallasso
1. to change mutually
[from G2596 and G236]

G236 ἀλλάσσω allasso
1. to change, transform, make different
[from G243]

G243 ἄλλος allos
1. "else," i.e. different
[a primary word]

 

[homwardbound]

Yes they were nailed to the cross. Jesus bore our sins upon His body and DIED. Likewise when we DIE WITH CHRIST we die to sin. It is through "dying WITH Christ" (being baptised into His death) that our old man is crucified WITH HIM whereby the body of sin DESTROYED.

Thus those who partake in Christ's suffering cease from sin (1Pet 4:1) for they die to that which held them in bondage to the service of sin. in other words we no longer walk according to the lusts of men (1Pet 4:2), having escaped the corruption in the world through lust (2Pet 1:4). Then being raised up with Christ to newness of life (Rom 6:4-5, Col 2:12-13) we abide in the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ (Rom 8:2) wereby we are set free from the law of sin and death (basically set free from the service of sin which brings death (Rom 6:23)). Hence we were set free by "obeying from the heart that form of doctrine once delivered" (Rom 6:17-18).

It has NOTHING to do with the penalty due sin being paid by Jesus Christ. He paid a price alright but it was not the penalty due our sin which is ultimately being cast into the Lake of Fire.

Jesus suffered on our behalf not in our place. He suffered on our behalf so we could follow Him and suffer with Him and thus find reconciliation to God THROUGH Him because as the Second Adam God finds Jesus Christ worthy. Thus we are also found worthy IN Him.

We were enslaved in Egypt (sin) and Jesus came and ransomed us from that slavery leaving us with the CHOICE to leave Egypt and go serve a new master in which is found life, or to remain in service to the old master in which is found death.

truth spoken here, yet you might not be seeing that we here are saying the same as you, just using different wording that causes dis communication. So to me spoken clear here, and now it seems to be a matter of semantics.
What is it you are truly concerned here about of another?

 

[zone]

Yes he is...

skinski believes that 'faith' is righteousness, or that 'faith' makes one righteous. In other words it's a action, or deed, or work of man that causes one to be righteous. Works of law, plain and simple (albeit very twisted)

The reality, though, is that faith is being persuaded by, placing confidence in, and trusting in GOD's declaration that Christ's righteousness has been imputed to us through the exchange effected by the new covenant in which Christ received the punishment for our sin and we received his righteousness.

oh the DECLARATION!

Skinski & DeSario & Co. reject THAT offensive notion.

they use that WOLF Charles Finney to "prove" God can never LEGALLY do such a thing.

'He can NOT make a declaration of righteousness upon the unrighteous!'

'He can NOT SUBSTITUTE the Perfect Life and Perfect Death of His PERFECT SON' for the worthless unrighteous lives of rebels!'

no, according to them, CHRIST DIED FOR THE PURE AND RIGHTEOUS, not sinners.

just go to that rank website standingthegap. nutjobs and look around.

God have mercy on anyone who drinks from that death.

 

[zone]

The Pharisees were inwardly defiled and yet thought they were right with God. They sought their status of justification in the "works of the law" and in the "bloodline of Abraham."

The theologians of the present day have made the same basic error. Instead of viewing their status of justification in the "works of the law" or in a "bloodline" they see it in "trusting in a judicial provision."

Both the theology of the Pharisees and the theology of most modern professing Christianity leaves converts inwardly defiled.

There is nothing new under the sun.

ugh.
well, good luck to you as you CONTINUE year after year to publically trample on the ONLY Judicial Provision available.

sickening.

ju·di·cial (j-dshl)
adj.
1. Law
a. Of, relating to, or proper to courts of law or to the administration of justice: the judicial system.
b. Decreed by or proceeding from a court of justice: a judicial decision.
c. Belonging or appropriate to the office of a judge: in judicial robes.
2. Characterized by or expressing judgment: the judicial function of a literary critic.
3. Proceeding from a divine judgment.

pro·vi·sion (pr-vzhn)
n.
1. The act of supplying or fitting out.
2. Something provided.
3. A preparatory action or measure.
4. provisions A stock of necessary supplies, especially food.
5. A stipulation or qualification, especially a clause in a document or agreement.
tr.v. pro·vi·sioned, pro·vi·sion·ing, pro·vi·sions
To supply with provisions.

..........

Genesis 22:8
Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together.