DOES HUMAN NATURE VANISH AS SOON AS WE ARE BORN AGAIN?

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Mar 4, 2013
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There is no phrase “oral law” in the Bible so I will not address that issue.

Exodus 24:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

God gave the law, so it became theirs (the priesthood i.e. Hebrews/Jews). It was a gift of love for the divine purpose. That’s why Jesus says;

John 8:17 (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

He doesn’t dispute the accuracy in this passage.

Deuteronomy 17:6 is good too.

Deuteronomy 19:15-17 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;

Then Jesus identifies this law even further when talking privately to the disciples when he says

Matthew 18:15-17 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Psalm 82:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

So Jesus is not disputing the law, but is defended by the law that David wrote in the Psalms. Everybody likes the Psalms of David.

John 10:35-38 (KJV)

[SUP]35 [/SUP]If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Gifts that are from God do not change and are not to be considered lightly. One must consider that Jesus was born under the law. Paul says so.

Galatians 4:4-5 (KJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

One then must consider that all the teachings of Jesus were under the law. The new didn’t come until after His death, so if one declares the teaching of the law as past, then one also has to declare the teachings of Jesus as past, and not of the new.

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

I know this teaching will not set very well with most Christians today, but it’s true. And I don’t dispute HeRoseFromTheDead . For he made it very clear that Jesus was teaching and defending His deity through the law that was given to the Hebrews. To complete my understanding of this subject I also conclude, which I have done before, that our Savior Jesus Christ gave the law to Moses when rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

Colossians 1:14-19 (KJV)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

John 5:44-47 (KJV)

[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Malachi 3:6 (KJV)

[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8-9 (KJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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what a coincidce, just reading Luther's commentary on 1 Corinthians 15:54-55:)
Yes and according to some of thess CC commentators we as born again believers are still 'by nature children of wrath'. I guess the Ephesians had to jump through a few Levitical Fiery Hoops to purge out that nasty old Adam. Perhaps they found another 'door'.
 
M

Mammachickadee

Guest
Here is your final nail to lies..... God is the one that save sinners.... does He do so good enough to save a sinner? If not why repent or even say the Name Jesus? God saves a sinner to be HIS CHILD IN CHRIST JESUS... and IN HIM IS NO SIN....
Even Paul and Peter considered themselves to be the most wretched of sinners, yet they penned some of the greatest books of the Bible. Are you saying they were not saved?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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we could toss it around forever,,,but in the end,"let he that hath not sin cast the first stone",,,,,here is the stone,,,throw it up in the air and close your eyes,,,,,,
 
Feb 17, 2010
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I do not want to hack this thread, but yuo all beat about the bush. Paul NEVER judged himself to be a sinner, and neither did Peter.
They said a lot of things that appears to be contradicting. But what they say about themselves is not important. What I say about myself is not important... What GOD SAYS about us IS!!!!

People, PLEASE do not get this wrong.... Jesus says the Word of God is TRUTH, and WORTHY FOR OUR DOCTRINE....

We have to believe that if God saves us, HE SAVES US PERFECTLY.... If God's salvation does not remove sin from us GOD DID NOT SAVE US FROM SIN, but only FROM THE PENALTY of sin. The Bible says.... Jesus was manifest to TAKE AWAY OUR SIN, not the PAYMENT of sin, from SIN itself...

Here is what the Bible teach about salvation IN CHRIST...
God says, he will remove SIN from us as far as the east is from the west.... Well I am in Africa and most of you are in USA. you CANNOT touch me, or be in my presence.... THe west is way further from the east than I am from you.... How can you have PART in sin that God REMOVED from you and then not only removed it from you but ALSO put Jesus between you and the sin? How are you going to get to that sin to do it?
First you have to get OUT OF CHRIST, or Through the narrow GATE Again....


Ok let me put salvation as the Bible puts it. Let us use Ben as our holy child of God that God saved from sin, hell evil and death (SECOND DEATH).... When God called Ben, he was a sinner. God CALLED ben to be a saint, and also with a HIGH CALLING IN CHRIST. God did not call Ben to remain a sinner, God came so sinners CAN REPENT. Ok, God says because He called Ben he will also JUSTIFY Ben.

Even God's calling is an act of grace, but MANY are called but few are chosen... so a lot of God's grace is NOT going to save a lot of people. Actually God saves way less people than HE CALLED. But for our lesson we say Ben is one that are one of the chosen. God's grace started with the call of Ben. But God's grace has to justify Ben as well, and justification is... forgiveness, and teaching in righteousness. God now teach Ben of sin, and righteousness and judgment.... God makes Ben a righteous person.

This righteous-making is God releaving Ben of the old ways and teach and LEAD Him in the NEW WAYS... HIS WAYS.... The stny heart is removed and replaced with God's heart... the human spirit is being made DEAD and God will POUR His Spirit into that person as soon as the human spirit exhales his LAST BREATH. Then the Spirit of God will enter into the flesh heart and Ben would be a NEW CREATURE...The old has DIED! DEAD AS ONLY GOD CAN MAKE DEAD..... This old will NOT BE MADE ALIVE AGAIN.... I know the Bible also says that it is possible to forsake this new heart and Spirit, but oh boy I do not think even Satan is as stupid as that.

God says if Ben reached this absolute holiness and perfection and heavenly power, and returns to his old ways he is as a dog that return to his vomit.... HAH! Filthy.... People this complete salvation IN CHRIST,,,, is IN GOD'S KINGDOM ALREADY... And a saved person has HEAVENLY POWERS... Ben that used to be sinner, now is EMPOWERED with the SPIRIT OF GOD. Ben can do ALL Jesus did and EVEN MORE. Because the One that made Ben this HOLY MAN OF GOD, is Jesus, and He sits right next to the Father, to ask the Father to give Ben GREATER power than HE HAD HIMSELF....

Now, how ARROGANT of me to claim I am saved, yet I sin. True, like EG says, a Fathr does not forsake us when we sin WHILE HE JUSTIFIES us, but if we sin AFTER HE GLORIFIED us, there is NO MORE SAVING US....

Salvation is at the END OF GOD'S work, not when HE CALLS. WE are only SAVED when God gave us GLORIFICAITON. MANY fall away in the justification part, but FEW ARE GIVEN GLORIFICATION... they are the ELECT...
 
Feb 17, 2010
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Even Paul and Peter considered themselves to be the most wretched of sinners, yet they penned some of the greatest books of the Bible. Are you saying they were not saved?
Paul says HE JUDGE NOT HIMSELF... so how can Paul consider himself a sinner? He has to judge himself to do that,...
I did not say that the children of God CANNOT sin, God said so in 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18. And Eph 4 and MAt 5 and 2 Peter 1, and Timothy 3 and 5, and Eph and James and and and.

God's WORK done on a saint produce a PERFECT MAN. God takes a sinner and through HIS GRACE He makes the sinner a PERFECT MAN RIGHT HERE ON EARTH...

Look what Paul says.... Paul said that AS GOD IS SO ARE HE (WE) ON THIS WOLD... Jesus taught us to pray..... Father Let THOU WILL be done HERE ON EARTH AS IT IS DONE IN HEAVEN.... Is HEaven perfect, then His will here is ALSO PERFECT.... If God's will be done in me as in heaven, I AM A PERFECT MAN!

Eg said that if we are perfect.... we do not need God.... Well God says.... James 1:4.... But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Do you know why a perfect person does not NEED or WANT GOD? .... He has ALL GOD IN HIM.... And ONLY GOD IN HIM... AND HE IS IN GOD... A Perfect person is IN GOD, and GOD IN HIM... what more is there to need or want? It is COMPLETE...
 
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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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But I thought we were saved by grace alone.
Ever notice this guy flips around? His main interest is not learning truth, it is debating and showing his superiority. I am done with...

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
 
B

BradC

Guest
I do not want to hack this thread, but yuo all beat about the bush. Paul NEVER judged himself to be a sinner, and neither did Peter.
They said a lot of things that appears to be contradicting. But what they say about themselves is not important. What I say about myself is not important... What GOD SAYS about us IS!!!!

People, PLEASE do not get this wrong.... Jesus says the Word of God is TRUTH, and WORTHY FOR OUR DOCTRINE....

We have to believe that if God saves us, HE SAVES US PERFECTLY.... If God's salvation does not remove sin from us GOD DID NOT SAVE US FROM SIN, but only FROM THE PENALTY of sin. The Bible says.... Jesus was manifest to TAKE AWAY OUR SIN, not the PAYMENT of sin, from SIN itself...

Here is what the Bible teach about salvation IN CHRIST...
God says, he will remove SIN from us as far as the east is from the west.... Well I am in Africa and most of you are in USA. you CANNOT touch me, or be in my presence.... THe west is way further from the east than I am from you.... How can you have PART in sin that God REMOVED from you and then not only removed it from you but ALSO put Jesus between you and the sin? How are you going to get to that sin to do it?
First you have to get OUT OF CHRIST, or Through the narrow GATE Again....


Ok let me put salvation as the Bible puts it. Let us use Ben as our holy child of God that God saved from sin, hell evil and death (SECOND DEATH).... When God called Ben, he was a sinner. God CALLED ben to be a saint, and also with a HIGH CALLING IN CHRIST. God did not call Ben to remain a sinner, God came so sinners CAN REPENT. Ok, God says because He called Ben he will also JUSTIFY Ben.

Even God's calling is an act of grace, but MANY are called but few are chosen... so a lot of God's grace is NOT going to save a lot of people. Actually God saves way less people than HE CALLED. But for our lesson we say Ben is one that are one of the chosen. God's grace started with the call of Ben. But God's grace has to justify Ben as well, and justification is... forgiveness, and teaching in righteousness. God now teach Ben of sin, and righteousness and judgment.... God makes Ben a righteous person.

This righteous-making is God releaving Ben of the old ways and teach and LEAD Him in the NEW WAYS... HIS WAYS.... The stny heart is removed and replaced with God's heart... the human spirit is being made DEAD and God will POUR His Spirit into that person as soon as the human spirit exhales his LAST BREATH. Then the Spirit of God will enter into the flesh heart and Ben would be a NEW CREATURE...The old has DIED! DEAD AS ONLY GOD CAN MAKE DEAD..... This old will NOT BE MADE ALIVE AGAIN.... I know the Bible also says that it is possible to forsake this new heart and Spirit, but oh boy I do not think even Satan is as stupid as that.

God says if Ben reached this absolute holiness and perfection and heavenly power, and returns to his old ways he is as a dog that return to his vomit.... HAH! Filthy.... People this complete salvation IN CHRIST,,,, is IN GOD'S KINGDOM ALREADY... And a saved person has HEAVENLY POWERS... Ben that used to be sinner, now is EMPOWERED with the SPIRIT OF GOD. Ben can do ALL Jesus did and EVEN MORE. Because the One that made Ben this HOLY MAN OF GOD, is Jesus, and He sits right next to the Father, to ask the Father to give Ben GREATER power than HE HAD HIMSELF....

Now, how ARROGANT of me to claim I am saved, yet I sin. True, like EG says, a Fathr does not forsake us when we sin WHILE HE JUSTIFIES us, but if we sin AFTER HE GLORIFIED us, there is NO MORE SAVING US....

Salvation is at the END OF GOD'S work, not when HE CALLS. WE are only SAVED when God gave us GLORIFICAITON. MANY fall away in the justification part, but FEW ARE GIVEN GLORIFICATION... they are the ELECT...
Cobus, you seem to discredit the inspired insight that God gave to these apostles as to their body of sin and death. What they have said about themselves was worthy to be part of the inspired scriptures. You need a practical revelation of the grace of God and the death of the cross so that you can see the goodness of God that has been bestowed on each one of us who have trusted Christ.
 
Feb 17, 2010
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Brad the only discredit I do is what MAN says, not Godly men or God in His Word. Paul cannot be a sinner and ask other sinners to FOLLOW him and his men... 2 Thes 3:7 to 9.

God's men were MOVED by the Holy Spirit, not by themselves.... 2 Peter 1:21... You see the difference between Paul and Peter and me, is Jesus Christ... They had Christ in them and they were in Christ, I AM NOT. That does not mean I understand or know or belief NOT the Word of God. I believe God and His Word before I believe any person that does not know the Word or God and His men. His HOLY APOSTLES..

Let me show you how I really feel about God and His holy men..
First of all please not WHO APPOINTED them.... GOD DID...
Eph 4: 11 to 13... And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

God appointed these men at these offices.... And HE STILL DOES.... It is not some Bible school or school for prophets... GOD APPOINTS THEM.

Secondly, look what they need to do.... THEY NEED TO PERFECT THE SAINTS...
What is a Saint? It is a person that are already without sin.... WOW!!!! A person GOD declares a saint, is already without sin... Hagios is the greek word... meaning spiritually pure and morely blameless... MOST HOLY.... WOW! But they need to be perfected... And they need to be UNIFIED in the BODY OF CHRIST (the TRUE CHURCH) And they need to be brought to the measure of Christ.. now if that measure is not perfect then I will ret as loser, and so would God, but sorry to say... JESUS IS PERFECT...

And He brings them UNTO A PERFECT MAN.... now how can God and His men bring a sinner to a saint and then to a perfect man, if they are not perfect themselves? What a hypocrate Paul would be to tell a sinner to follow another sinner to be saved? I know Paul was perfect, and so is ANY PERSON God makes saint and then member of the Body of Christ, unto the measure of Jesus. That is why God says in 1 John 3:9... Whosoevr is born of God sinneth NOT! And he goes on but read it yourself. And also read John 17 and see how Jesus asked the Father how to handle the ones Father gives to Him... Jesus says that Father should make them PERFECTLY one with HIM! WOW!

I know I am not made one with Him YET, but I know God promised me, what He started He will complete. And if the complete product looks like the one He started with, then He should just let me be. But I have a hope, and God says all that has this hope PURIFIETH THEMSELVES, even as He is pure.... EVERY day I am busy with the purifieth himself..... And I will only Stop if I am as pure as HE IS.... Nobody can stop this. God wants me and I want Him....
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Cobus, you are showing your human nature. Your comments have enlightened others about how human nature works. Granted, it's not the same in every individual, but it is there in every living human. It's called iniquity and we all have that. There is no escape from that nature until the day we die. As long as we are in this fleshly body we will have human nature that is canal and is at enmity with God. We have a choice to fight it, or amplify it. To recognize human nature is the first step of understanding why we must come to, and through Christ for forgiveness. It's a daily thing because we know how we fall short if we are truthful with ourselves.

Romans 8:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
 
M

Mammachickadee

Guest
I do not want to hack this thread, but yuo all beat about the bush. Paul NEVER judged himself to be a sinner, and neither did Peter.
They said a lot of things that appears to be contradicting. But what they say about themselves is not important. What I say about myself is not important... What GOD SAYS about us IS!!!!
"The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost."- 1 Timothy 1:15 (stated in the present tense when he said he was the chief of sinners)
Peter denied Christ three times (an obvious sin), and he had anger issues. These are sins.
Though sin has no hold on us, we as believers still sin.
 
Mar 3, 2013
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I have watched this thread and I think there is a misunderstanding of what human nature is on the part of some of those posting. Human nature is, according to the dictionary: the qualities common to humanity; the unique elements that form a basic part of human life and distinguish it from other animal life.
It is the makeup all humans everywhere and at every time in history share. It does not change. A quick overview of world history tells us that. The pursuit of happiness is a priority, but first and foremost is what we call instinct – self-preservation, and second is procreation of the species. We all have a natural “ego” which resists alteration of our “characteristics” that make us “individuals” in this great big world. That is why some people consider themselves a model for all humanity and try to make others conform to their own likeness mentally, spiritually, even emotionally.

Since “human nature” includes all humans, when we look at this thread and really think about the topic, we are forced to realize that the answer to the question posed is obviously, “no!”

Equally obvious is the fact that the Bible tells us there will always be a war raging within true believers, a fact addressed most notably by the apostle, Paul. He describes it this way in Romans chapter 7:
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[TD="colspan: 2"]14 For we know that the Torah is of the Spirit; but as for me, I am bound to the old nature, sold to sin as a slave.
15 I don't understand my own behavior - I don't do what I want to do; instead, I do the very thing I hate!
16 Now if I am doing what I don't want to do, I am agreeing that the Torah is good.
17 But now it is no longer "the real me" doing it, but the sin housed inside me.
18 For I know that there is nothing good housed inside me - that is, inside my old nature. I can want what is good, but I can't do it!
19 For I don't do the good I want; instead, the evil that I don't want is what I do!
20 But if I am doing what "the real me" doesn't want, it is no longer "the real me" doing it but the sin housed inside me.
21 So I find it to be the rule, a kind of perverse "torah," that although I want to do what is good, evil is right there with me!
22 For in my inner self I completely agree with God's Torah;
23 but in my various parts, I see a different "torah," one that battles with the Torah in my mind and makes me a prisoner of sin's "torah," which is operating in my various parts.
24 What a miserable creature I am! Who will rescue me from this body bound for death?
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If it was this difficult for an apostle, the great apostle Paul, what makes us think we should expect an easier time?
 
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Human nature is completely self-involved...which includes self-centered, selfish, unconcerned about hoe he/she impacts other's lives.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
Good morning to all, To must of you, Good evening/afternoon. I will add to Just-us-2 All"born again" christians have two natures. We don't lost our old nature,spiritual or physical, when God gives us the new birth, it is a spiritual birth , a new spiritual nature is put inside us; this is why we still fight temptation and sin. the human nature consists of two parts, the body and the spirit/soul. This is very basic to the Bible teaching. At phy. death the body dies but the spirit/soul go back to God,Heaven or Hell, never dies. Obviously Cobus doesn't believe like most christians do. We just went to the funeral of a good friend who claimed to be saved ,yet he had very similar views as Cobus. He was an "Apostolic" christian . He didn't explain things exactly as Cobus does. But, when he prayed to the "Father Jesus", I had to ask him never to come back to our church again. We remained good friends but we never saw eye to eye. He believed in only ONE person in the Godhood. He didn't believe the soul lived after the body died. Cobus are you "Apostolic"? A dictionary is basic to studying the Bible. but the Bible was not written according to mr.Webster. The Bible has several meanings for the word "call". 1. a call to act in a certain way Mt.22:14 "many are called ,but few are chosen" NOT all persons who hear God's word will be saved; God will only save His "elect" Romans 8-11 tells the whole story of who will be saved. 2. an effectual call, that saves, makes alive In 1Cor. 1 the word call is only used as for those who are saved by God's effectual call = The new birth, born of the spirit. see 1Cor 1:1-31 I will quote only, 1:26-27 "So you see your calling brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not man mighty, not many noble,are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world..." and v.30"..of Him you are in Christ Jesus," 3. as your vocation, calling 1Cor. 7:20 "..remain in the calling (state) in which He called you"(saved you) The Webster dict. has all the meanings of call. These 3 are listed. To get the exact meaning of a word in the Bible, we must study each passage in which the word is used and check the context, The context gives us the the particular meaning the author intends. The word "flesh has three meaning: 1. the human body, the sinful nature, and a soft substance ,as a heart of flesh. Eze.36:26-27 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them." ( TWO MEANING FOR "FLESH") IN THE NEW BIRTH GOD PUT INTO OUR HEART THE ABILITY TO BE MOLDED TO HIS LAWS, He doesn't take our heart out,He just makes it soft ;Therefore, the desire to sin is not remove from our heart, our hearts are refocused on and by His Spirit He puts into us, this causes us to trust and obey God and gain eternal life. this is called a"new heart." The is called "the new man" as opposed to "the old man", as in Eph.4:22-24 "That you put off.. the old man which grows corrupt..and put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness." ( the new birth restores the image of God, which Adam lost for us,) see also Col.3:9-10 "true knowledge of God" (We are not in the image of God until we are born again) NOW, Rom.6:6 gives another side to this "heart" issue:"... our old man was crucified with Him," (potentially not actually) that the body of sin might be done away with,(not yet totally gone) that we should no longer be slaves of sin." (but not perfectly, until the death of our body, only after death, will we be) "spirits of just men make perfect" in Heaven. Heb. 12:23
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Good morning to all, To must of you, Good evening/afternoon. I will add to Just-us-2 All"born again" christians have two natures.
So very good. I have never seen it explained so well! May God truly bless your explanations about His Truth.
 
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1. a call to act in a certain way Mt.22:14 "many are called ,but few are chosen" NOT all persons who hear God's word will be saved; God will only save His "elect" Romans 8-11 tells the whole story of who will be saved.
So, who are the "elect" in your opinion?
 
S

Shiloah

Guest

we are. but some people in here claim to believe it, but do not teach it.
they are headed in a wrong direction. Unless something is done, they will be those who stand before christ proclaiming all the works in his name, and he will say depart, for he never knew them.

non of us want anyone to go through this do we?
I have seen absolutely no one in this forum teach that one is not saved by grace alone. I've only seen people teach that we keep God's commandments as proof and pure gratitude of Christ's saving grace. This is something you simply cannot see. All you can see is that if people teach that we should do what Christ says, to keep His commandments, they must be teaching that we are saved by works alone. Despite all the posts that say otherwise, you still arrive at the conclusion. You do to the point you're even willing to accuse people who claim to only be doing ask Christ says because they love Him of lying. I've seen you say this, claiming that they only say this but actually do it because it makes them feel better than others.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I have seen absolutely no one in this forum teach that one is not saved by grace alone. I've only seen people teach that we keep God's commandments as proof and pure gratitude of Christ's saving grace. This is something you simply can't see.
Well you can say it all you want, but your wrong.

We have been told, If you do not obey, You will lose your salvation

We have been told, If you do not obey (to their standard) you can;t be saved


Yes some, INCLUDING MYSELF say that it is a proof of salvation. But not everyone here is teaching this

maybe you can learn who they are?
 
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Shiloah

Guest
Well you can say it all you want, but your wrong.

We have been told, If you do not obey, You will lose your salvation

We have been told, If you do not obey (to their standard) you can;t be saved


Yes some, INCLUDING MYSELF say that it is a proof of salvation. But not everyone here is teaching this

maybe you can learn who they are?
Here you are! The truth is, if you don't do what Christ says, you don't love Him, hence, you never were saved. If you love Him, you do what He says. If you don't, you don't love Him. You think those that don't love Him receive salvation?
 
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Shiloah

Guest
I'm reposting this because I added to it after you replied to it. Read the rest of it.

I have seen absolutely no one in this forum teach that one is not saved by grace alone. I've only seen people teach that we keep God's commandments as proof and pure gratitude of Christ's saving grace. This is something you simply cannot see. All you can see is that if people teach that we should do what Christ says, to keep His commandments, they must be teaching that we are saved by works alone. Despite all the posts that say otherwise, you still arrive at the conclusion. You do to the point you're even willing to accuse people who claim to only be doing ask Christ says because they love Him of lying. I've seen you say this, claiming that they only say this but actually do it because it makes them feel better than others.