DOES HUMAN NATURE VANISH AS SOON AS WE ARE BORN AGAIN?

Shiloah · Jul 23, 2013

Quite suddenly, I just have to wonder. Do you only do that which makes you feel sure that you are saved and no more because you're only desire is to be saved? Obviously, yes. You keep saying nothing more is required of us then to get ourselves saved. Anything else is meaningless.

I have to wonder how Christ feels about those that only care about saving themselves and nothing more.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2013

Shiloah said:

You can post it all you want, it will not change things

I GREW UP IN A LEGALISTIC CHURCH WHO CLAIMED GRACE BUT TAUGHT WORKS. I KNOW all the tricks, I KNOW all the sayings. I can spot them when I see them, because I was one of them. Maybe you were not so you can;t spot them so easily??

Anyone who teaches you can LOSE salvation based on how well you obey the commands, or you can not be saved if you do not obey to some set standard (usually naming a few pet sions) it not teaching grace. they can say it till they are blue in the face, but they are decieving even themselves.

Satan comes as an angel of light, It is easy to think his words come from God. why do you think his form of legalism has worked since the first man sinned??

IT SOUNDS GOOD..

Shiloah · Jul 23, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

You simply are blind to this, absolutely blind. No reasoning from any angle can make you understand. Believe what you want. You will anyway. But you're wasting your twisted reasoning on me other than to prove how blind such reasoning is.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2013

Shiloah said:

then you should wonder about those who do those things to keep saved, and judge others who they do not think can be saved.

Salvation by grace through faith MEANS NOTHING MORE. if you teach more. then you teach SELF SALVATION.

those who ARE saved do not work to stay saved. they work BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, and BECAUSE THEY LEARN WHAT A TRUE AND LOVING GOD WE HAVE< and they DO NOT GO JUDGING OTHER PEOPLE, but instead FOCUS ON GETTING THEM SAVED.

If anyone teaches ANYTHING other than faith is REQUIRED to be saved. , and/or salvation is NOT eternal. but based on how well we perfom, then they are teaching a works based legalistic gospel.

Shiloah · Jul 23, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

There you go again! Saying the same thing! THERE IS NO ONE THAT DOES WHAT CHRIST TELLS THEM TO DO BECAUSE THEY LOVE HIM TO KEEP THEMSELVES SAVED! IF I SHOUTED THAT FROM THE ROOFTOPS COULD YOU HEAR IT THEN?? OBVIOUSLY NOT!

However, hopefully someone out there will.

Shiloah · Jul 23, 2013

I'm done talking to you eternally-grateful.

Shiloah · Jul 23, 2013

James 2:14-26

[h=3]Faith Without Works Is Dead[/h][SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[SUP][a][/SUP] works, and I will show you my faith by my[SUP][b][/SUP] works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! [SUP]20 [/SUP]But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][d][/SUP] And he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

danschance · Jul 23, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

I agree. Salvation is a free gift to those who want to receive it. There is something called faith and works, but there is nothing I can do, except be perfect, to earn salvation.

This picture is of the "Hope Diamond" and was once owned by Marie Antoinette. It is worth about $250,000,000. Is there anything you or I can do to earn it? Salvation is worth far more than a quarter of a billion dollars. So if you can't earn the hope diamond, there is no way you can earn salvation.

just-me · Jul 24, 2013

When people converse about the Old and New testament, isn't it funny how the human nature is manifest? Those that see the Old Testament as relevant are accepted, but mention the law once and then the labels start flying around quoting other people with words they never said, but the accuser hears, and sees because that's what they are seeing before reading.

WAP!! Turn the other cheek. WAP!!

Turn the other cheek. WAP!! Turn the other cheek. I can't do that anymore, I only have 2 cheeks unless I do a 180.

just-us-2 · Jul 24, 2013

Hoffco said:

I read Romans 8-11 again. So, who are the "elect"?

just-me · Jul 24, 2013

Not being able to reconcile differences shows human nature at its negative side. It isn't a lack of sincerity for sure, it's a lack of self identity that should be seen through the Word of God. It's related to instinct, and the lack of truth that refuses to humble itself. I'm guilty of that, particularly when I become passionate about what I think is the best avenue to accomplish a task, and other things, that are humiliating in retrospect. Ask my wife, she'll tell you for sure. LOL

2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

just-us-2 · Jul 24, 2013

Iniquitous human nature in action:
It is apparently a real slap in the face for modern day gentiles to be told that ancient Bereans were wise enough – noble as the KJV calls them – to learn from the Jews that lived among them, when they didn’t even have the New Testament to encourage them to do so. They learned. They didn’t get boastful and self-righteous because of their new status as Gentiles loved by God, but anger grew amongst the Jewish community in Berea because at the time, Paul was teaching these Gentiles of the Messiah. How dare he prove that new “religion” by using “their” law, given by God to “their” Moses and “their” prophets. Because “their” law and “their” prophets told of the coming Messiah, Paul used it to teach the Bereans, who were wise enough to go study to see if they were being told the truth, and they acquired a reputation of being “noble”. Romans 10:19 was being lived out.
Romans 10:19 (KJV)
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
The very next chapter of Romans tells how the Gentiles will provoke the Jews not merely to anger but to desire the relationship with the Messiah that they have. It is God’s word and it will come to pass, but it won’t happen easily because now we have Gentiles turning this situation with the Bereans and Jews near Thessalonica in Greece, around to the opposite direction. Professing Christians regularly, and habitually accuse, belittle, defame, and slander other Gentiles who dare to look at the Mosaic Law to learn from it, and negate (to nullify or cause to be ineffective) the law itself given by God. What a crying shame! It is bad enough that the adversary makes it so hard without people claiming to be Christians (but not living the life Jesus said to live), helping him destroy communication and edification among the body of Christ.

Hoffco · Jul 24, 2013

I love to repeat the truth of God, this is how and why ,I love to teach children.., teaching adults is much harder, SLAP, SORRY, I hope, it didn't really hurt, did it? The "elect" acc. to Rom. 8-11 are: LOOK at the concordance:"elect" Rom.8:33 "God's elect" The setting is vs.28-39. The Elect are those chosen in Christ ,by love to be saved, and can never be separated from God's love.
Rom.9:11-13 "(For the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not works but of Him who calls), it was said to her,"The older shall serve the younger."
As it is written,"Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." " ( this needs no explanation)
Rom.11:5 "...there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom.11:7 "..Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect has obtained it, and the rest were blinded,"
Rom.11:28-29 "Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."
NOW according to Romans 10 are those who will be "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved" but Israel never humbled them selves to call out for mercy, and were lost. AND the setting of ch. 10 is chs,8,9 11, only the elect remnant will be born of God "called" of God and will " call on the Lord" and be save. Just as in Jh. 10:26 Jesus said to some Jews, "But you do not believe , because you are not of My sheep." ONLY Jesus know who they are. So, we preach to all who will listen. Amen? ! Hoffco

Cobus · Jul 25, 2013

Mammachickadee said:

Mammachickadee, it is with great humbleness and excitement that I share this revelation with you.... First when Petr denied Christ three times, Peter was not yet a saved person. And Peter was still human... but AFTER the baptism and filling of the Holy Spirit, Peter was a HOLY APOSTLE of God. Peter was only a disciple when he denied Jesus, and Peter still had his own spirit. That is why he could still sin.... But AFTER he was FILLED with the Holy Spirit, Jesus was the Spirit in Peter... Christ Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

And now Paul.... Christ Jesus came into this world to save sinners, of whom Saul/Paul are the formost.... Now here is the greatest Truth you will find in this verse....

Paul was the SAVED and Saul was the sinner.... Just as Saul was propably the greatest sinner God would save, so is Paul the ggreatest SAVED SINNER.... Paul says here... Christ came to save sinners, and that he PAUL is the foremost of ALL SAVED SINNERS. Paul was not the greatest sinner, SAUL was. SAUL was not the greatest SAVED SINNER, Paul was.

As great a sinner SAUL was, as great as SAVED SINNER Paul was. That means Christ has SAVED PAUL. and as we know, God's salvation is PERFECT! So to get a GREAT sinner to be perfect, they are also the greatest SAVED perfect children of God. The Bible teach that the ones that were far off KNOWS the great salvation of grace to righteousness...

Rmember how Jesus said... SAUL SAUL why do you persecuteth ME.... He did not say Saul persecuted HIS PEOPLE... but Christ JEsus Himself.... there is a hidden mystery for you in this.... Why do Jesus refer to His people as HIMSLEF?

Hoffco · Jul 25, 2013

My friend who was an Apostolic christian was just like you, Cobus, He could look at a very simple Bible verse and totally miss the real meaning, he never read anything in its setting and just yelled at me and would not listen to me for 30 second before interrupting me. I enjoy being able to set at my computer and not be yelled at by someone off the wall; Not carrying a full load of bricks. LOL. and I have to admit ,I yelled right back at my friends and get high blood pleasure too. Oh, LORD, forgive my anger and impatience with my wife and children, and my friends. Cobus, how can you call Jesus a lair? in Jh. 13:10-11 Jesus called Peter saved. "Jesus said to Him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet but is completely clean; and you are clean but not all of you." For He knew who would betray him; therefore He said, "You are not all clean." " I have shared so many verses that show you to be a liar, Will you ever learn? But, I have to remind myself, that it is not me that can set the captives free. only Jesus. We all need Paul's warning, in 2Tim.2:23-26 "But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all man able to teach patient In humility correcting those who are in opposition, If God perhaps will grant them repentance so that they may know the truth And that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil having been taken captive by him to do his will." I have to be so careful because the Devil seems to trip me up so much. Love in Christ, Hoffco

Cobus · Jul 26, 2013

Hoffco, I show verses that we can be perfe t if God makes us perfect, and you show verses that we cannot. Yet both arguments are provable in the Bible. So we need to know WHAT DOES GOD WANT!!!!

So many people go the prayer Jesus taught his disciples to pray, so let us then look at this prayer but we have to know this..... Jesus also said.... He that believeth on HIM, whatsoever he shall ask in HIS NAME, that HE WILL DO!!! We have to know this, Jesus says whatsoever we ask in HIS NAME (meaning in HIS WILL) He SHALL do what we ask....

Ok remember this, if we ask in HIS WILL/NAME, HE SHALL DO SO....He will give us what we ask....
Now let us look at the Lords prayer.... Jesus says we should ask the Father.... Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Now, if just these two PRAYER REQUESTS are done by JESUS, what will that transpire in our lives? If God's KINGDOM, come for me, what does that mean? It means God let me into HIS KINGDOM.... What is in God's Kingdom? Holiness, light, life, joy and God's will is done there. There are no sin, no evil and no satan in the Kingdom of God. NONE!

The second request is .... Thy will be done, here on earth, same as it is done in heaven.... How is God's will done in heaven? 10% or 100%... We all agree 100% God and 0% other will.... Not even 1 % of "other" will is done in heaven... It is ALL GOD'S will done in heaven, and ONLY God's will done.... You have to know this.

Then Jesus says we should also ask..... Lead us not into temtation but deliver us from evil.... Just think for a few minutes what will happen if Jesus grants us this request.... There will be NO TEMPTATION, and HE DELIVERS US FROM EVIL... How can we sin then? How can I sin if there is NO TEMPTATION....

I know James says temptation will teach us if we do not FALL and do the sin... but God also says... HE KNOWS how to deliver the GODLY OUT of temptation.... Please get this... God did NOT deliver out of temptation if you do the sin the temptation ASKS OF YOU.... If Jesus however does DELIVER you OUT of temptation, you will NOT DO THAT SIN....

Here is another verse that I take to heart.... 2 Timothy 4:18.... The LORD shall deliver me from EVERY EVIL WORK.... WOW!!!

Praise the HOLY FATHER, Christ Jesus, You are worthy to be loved, as THOW HAST LOVED ME.... Lord Deliver us from evil, AMEN!

just-us-2 · Jul 26, 2013

Hoffco said:

Thank you for answering my question.

Hoffco · Jul 26, 2013

Hi Cobus, My Apostolic friend told me of his experience of being baptized in the Holy Spirit, it was in winter and when he came out of the water a great light shone around him and melted all the snow around him. This was his salvation testimony. I think he was going to a United pentecostal church. I never tried to denounce his experience, He had it, it was real to him. I was saved in my bed room reading God's word and cried out to Jesus to save me and I got up cleansed and a new person from that day on. I went to Bible co. that Fall, grew fast in the faith.and was baptized the next Summer confessing Jesus ,again in the water of baptism. And I have always given a strong witness ever since. The baptism was a part of my salvation, but I was saved before it ,and I was more assured of my salvation and more saved after it. As we grow in Christ our salvation and assurance grows together. I have never been perfect, but I have always confessed and forsook my sin, until I fall to temptation again and confessed my sin again. My aim and goal is perfection, as God commands, but I know ,in this life ,no one can be perfect. Anyone who says they are perfect and don't sin, is sadly deceived by Satan. I still have my human nature and my sin nature but I have my new perfect spiritual nature given to me from Jesus, my new nature can not sin, it is my old nature that sins. After physical death My Soul/Spirit will go to Jesus and will be made perfectly perfect, totally separated from all sin. And at the resurrection, or rapture,my body will be raised Perfect, never to die again. Praise be to the Father and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, No way is God only one person. Any 7 yrs old can understand the trinity must be real. God is not crazy, talking to himself ,like a nut head. You have to be out out of touch with reality to believe as you do. Sorry but that is just the way it is. I gave all the Biblical evidence for the trinity in and from the Bible verses, but my friend would just yell like a crazy man quoting one verse. This is Satanic deception. May God deliver you. "Love the truth, and sell it not" Hoffco

Beckon · Jul 26, 2013

(YOU WRITE)
Re: DOES HUMAN NATURE VANISH AS SOON AS WE ARE BORN AGAIN?

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

In CHRIST is no sin.

If we could be sinless, we would no longer need Gods grace love and forgiveness. We would no longer need God period!

So, do you sin?

(BECKON HERE)
John 3:3, 1 Peter 1:23, IF ONE SIN at best, they are conceived moving towards The Mark Of The High Calling In Christ. Parable as Paul is quoted saying he was doing not long before he was murdered. Until then Paul was in part & there are only 2 parts 1, The Truth the other, lacking in The Christ Nature & Character in 1 or more ways.

I am aware of 2 different born again doctrines. 1, the religious born again doctrine that says, "I am a sinner & 2, the born again teaching Jesus referred to where one can not sin, for it is no longer them to be separated from The Spirit Of Eternal Truth in any area as fore told in Genesis 1, where we are being reborn from the image of God in Genesis 1:26 back into (the garden of Edan) Genesis 1;26, The Promised Land!

I am told that The way There is to fellowship with anyone, while point others towards the Mark Of The High Calling in The Spirit Of Eternal Truth, with Jesus, the 1st bore of many

The religious born again doctrine I believe at best is, parable to being conceived, called to wed, where few are willing / able, to keep God's 1st rule (called 1st commandment) the way home, that Jesus lived, taught, teaches to trust God 1st & foremost knowing, parable as Jesus is stated saying, "you have no power over me, but that given of The Father of all who is All. Also let this mind in you that is in me/Jesus"
Religions, (knowingly & or not knowing) tend to seek followers they can seduce into their spiritual works of the flesh such as spiritual adultery, fornication... & the like.

Remember if the one another followers, is teaching them to trump the 1st commandment (rule/way) with other teachings & or teachers, such is Spiritual Adultery!
Beckon

willfollowsGod · Jul 26, 2013

Grandpa said:

What was Adams sin? Why did it bring guilt and sorrow upon the world?

Adams sin was eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Actually Adam and Eve's sin was disobeying God and they carried that out by eating from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It was not just eating the fruit that caused the separation from God but disobeying by eating. There is a distinction. What always amazed me is that they were given one commandment and they disobeyed. Due to that the Israelites were given the Ten Commandments and then more, but they still disobeyed. Then God sent His Son Jesus to earth born of a virgin who live a perfect life, died on a cross for our sins, and rose from the dead and even with giving the two commandments of love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself, to summarize the ten commandments, people disobeyed because it is impossible to please God when you don't follow Him but only your sinful desires. That is the sinful nature that everyone is born with, but when one comes to Christ, sin does not have a hold of us. But the remnant called the flesh still remains and it is a tug of war daily between the spirit and the flesh.

DOES HUMAN NATURE VANISH AS SOON AS WE ARE BORN AGAIN?

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