To The Stumbling Blocks

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Sep 4, 2012
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#21
Once again folks, here are Jesus' commandments:


  • Believe in Christ

[The people] said to [Jesus], 'What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe into him whom he has sent.' John 6:28-29

Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord [by faith], so walk in him [by faith]. Colossians 2:6


  • Love your neighbor as yourself

A new commandment I give to you: that you love one another. As I have loved you, also you love one another. John 13:34

This is [GOD's] commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keeps his commandments dwells in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit which he has given us. 1 John 3:23-24


For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are summed up in this statement: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does not commit evil against a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:9-10

Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12

Love your neighbor as you love yourself and have faith in GOD. That's all it takes to please GOD. That's how simple it really is.
 
Sep 8, 2012
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#22
See this is the problem we're running into. Christ is not the 10 commandments or even the full law of Moses.
What do you mean, - "not even the full law of Moses".
Ah, yea, He's way passed that.
You say it as though Jesus is 'not EVEN the full law of Moses', as if He wasn't enough.
- - He's way past that.
- - - He's way above and way before the law.
- - - - And way past it.

- Called the Alpha and Omega.
- The Beginning and the End.
 
J

josh123

Guest
#23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[h=3]Galatians 5:22-23[/h]
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#24
We go round and round. We explain and explain and still it comes back like this!! To say living by law is not living by faith is so wrong to say. And it isn't right to say that if you listen to law you cannot have grace.

You can say we are saved only by grace, it is true. But you can't say you can be lawless and have grace.
You can say that our works without love are worthless. But you can't say that God asks us not to work for Him.
You can say that we live by faith. But you can't say that because of our faith we should not live for God, so we are not to obey.
I never said those things.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,087
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#25
Once again folks, here are Jesus' commandments:


  • Believe in Christ
[The people] said to [Jesus], 'What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe into him whom he has sent.' John 6:28-29

Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord [by faith], so walk in him [by faith]. Colossians 2:6


  • Love your neighbor as yourself
A new commandment I give to you: that you love one another. As I have loved you, also you love one another. John 13:34

This is [GOD's] commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keeps his commandments dwells in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit which he has given us. 1 John 3:23-24


For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are summed up in this statement: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does not commit evil against a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:9-10

Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12

Love your neighbor as you love yourself and have faith in GOD. That's all it takes to please GOD. That's how simple it really is.
Which of the 10 Commandments oppose any of the above?
 
J

josh123

Guest
#26
Once again folks, here are Jesus' commandments:


  • Believe in Christ
[The people] said to [Jesus], 'What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?' Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe into him whom he has sent.' John 6:28-29

Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord [by faith], so walk in him [by faith]. Colossians 2:6


  • Love your neighbor as yourself
A new commandment I give to you: that you love one another. As I have loved you, also you love one another. John 13:34

This is [GOD's] commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keeps his commandments dwells in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit which he has given us. 1 John 3:23-24


For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are summed up in this statement: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does not commit evil against a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:9-10

Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12

Love your neighbor as you love yourself and have faith in GOD. That's all it takes to please GOD. That's how simple it really is.
amen. 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
[h=3]Romans 13:8-10 ghbo but you know what people say despite seeing this? i don't care what you say or what you tell me i grew up going to the sabbath so i will not change for nothing, for people that think like that 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Acts 7:51 so despite showing them this also they gonna say I DON'T CARE i am pleasing the lord by going to church every saturday and that's that, i don't care what anyone has to say, if they say anything that doesn't portray to the sabbath it is wrong i will keep my belief until the end, you will get yourself in trouble... flee from it before it's too late.[/h]
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#27
Do you believe the Ten Commandments are some kind of burden? Read them again. Is not our new nature in Yeshua enough to enlighten any that these guidelines are not laws but the Father's desire for our behavior. Are you going to say we should not follow them? Read them, and tell all which do not fall under the laws of love.

Again I say to you, my concern for obedience deals only with the Ten Commandments and it is becoming apparent you do not believe this or you are lying about what I have consistently posted. Either way you are not taking even a moment to understand. Not understand me, understand why people who are truly saved find it a joy to obey the commandments of Yahweh.

Now if it is that you simply do not like me for whatever reason, then do not come around twisting what I post. It is not seemly for any who claims to follow the Lamb of Yahweh. I ask you this in the name of Yeshua.
If you want a debate then first answer my first post of 1cor 15:56-57
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#28
Romans 9:31-32
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Galatians 3:11-12

[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

The Lord Jesus has given us a NEW WAY.

What is the actual stumbling block and who are the stumbling blocks here??
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#29
If you understand the OP enough to be responding to it, then you know what, who, and anything else pertinent to your question. A reread is in order. I will spell this out for you though, Yeshua is our Example, He obeyed not only the law but also the Commandments. Yeshua teaches us to obey the commandments. His brother, John does the same in his letters, and in Revelation we are taught the importance of obeying the commandments where it speaks of the saints obeying them. Revelation even separates obeying the law from faith in Yeshua quite deliberately in order to emphasize the difference. Both are required to get through this Way given each of us by our Savior, and come the tribulation it will be very important.

Romans 9:31-32
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Galatians 3:11-12

[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

The Lord Jesus has given us a NEW WAY.

What is the actual stumbling block and who are the stumbling blocks here??
 
Sep 8, 2012
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#30
The new way is belief on Him.
Not revolving around the blood of sheep, bulls, heifers, and goats.
That Jesus fulfilled the law is no excuse not to be imbued by His Holy Spirit to keep it.
The keeping of the law should come as a supernatural occurrence to the believer.
Will we fall? (Take a wild guess) - Did Israel fall?
- The point is the life of Jesus Christ is greater than our failures.
- - Therein lies the faith in Him.
 
J

josh123

Guest
#31
The new way is belief on Him.
Not revolving around the blood of sheep, bulls, heifers, and goats.
That Jesus fulfilled the law is no excuse not to be imbued by His Holy Spirit to keep it.
The keeping of the law should come as a supernatural occurrence to the believer.
Will we fall? (Take a wild guess) - Did Israel fall?
- The point is the life of Jesus Christ is greater than our failures.
- - Therein lies the faith in Him.
preach it brother! nothing but the truth keeping the law should come supernatural and it does come supernaturally when you accept jesus and notice what the scripture says therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. and noone can truly love( love in their nature to just love everyone) without the holy spirit
 
J

josh123

Guest
#33
@ JaumeJ if you live in grace why do you need to boast that you live in grace? do you even know what grace is?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#34
My heart has been profoundly into this theme these past few days. It has been in appreciation Godward and in the Spirit, not in words so much, but your words have completed my own meditation making it quite conscious for me now. Thank you for your understanding so clearly worded for me.

The new way is belief on Him.
Not revolving around the blood of sheep, bulls, heifers, and goats.
That Jesus fulfilled the law is no excuse not to be imbued by His Holy Spirit to keep it.
The keeping of the law should come as a supernatural occurrence to the believer.
Will we fall? (Take a wild guess) - Did Israel fall?
- The point is the life of Jesus Christ is greater than our failures.
- - Therein lies the faith in Him.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
3,651
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#35
1 Corinthians 15:56-57 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thanks but I'll choose to walk by faith in Yeshua.
Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Go ahead Jaume.
 
J

josh123

Guest
#36
Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Go ahead Jaume.
once again nice effort my brother.. but they won't understand 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [h=3]1 Corinthians 2:14[/h]
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#37
once again nice effort my brother.. but they won't understand 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [h=3]1 Corinthians 2:14[/h]
eh...some do understand.
they just think they get extra rewards for pretending they are jewish.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
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#38
If you understand the OP enough to be responding to it, then you know what, who, and anything else pertinent to your question. A reread is in order. I will spell this out for you though, Yeshua is our Example, He obeyed not only the law but also the Commandments. Yeshua teaches us to obey the commandments. His brother, John does the same in his letters, and in Revelation we are taught the importance of obeying the commandments where it speaks of the saints obeying them. Revelation even separates obeying the law from faith in Yeshua quite deliberately in order to emphasize the difference. Both are required to get through this Way given each of us by our Savior, and come the tribulation it will be very important.
Oh I do know what is pertinent to my question. What amazes me is so many who don't know this.

What is the stumbling block and who are the stumbling blocks here?

A re-read? Once was already too much.

You wrote down the whole law, said that you work at it and that it is a joy to you and then attempted to twist it and say it is not work at all. I don't think anyone can be more deceived than that.

The Lord Jesus gives us a new way.

Romans 9:29-30
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

If you don't understand this New Way that the Lord Jesus Christ has given us how can you presume to be so arrogant and defend your deception against Christianity? Why not just say you don't understand the New Way and try to learn what it is?

Hebrews 8:4-13

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

I don't know why I keep putting bible verses up for you. Do you understand any of it?

The reason why God made a better covenant is because hardly anyone could follow His Law by their own strength. Even David, a man after Gods Own Heart, stumbled.

So now we have a new covenant. One where we don't follow His Law by our own Strength. One where He writes His Law on our mind and in our heart. He gives us His Holy Spirit and a heart of flesh so that we can know what Love is and share it with others. We abide in Christ now and He grows the Holy Spirit inside us. All of this is by faith.

But if we go back to working at the law we have fallen from grace. If we go back to working at the Law we are effectively saying the same thing as the people in the wilderness, which is don't let us hear His voice, we can't take it, just tell us what God wants and we'll do it.

If that is what you want then no one is stopping you. But don't label it Christianity. That is deception. That is a stumbling block.

Matthew 18:3-6

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
 
J

josh123

Guest
#39
We go round and round. We explain and explain and still it comes back like this!! To say living by law is not living by faith is so wrong to say. And it isn't right to say that if you listen to law you cannot have grace.

You can say we are saved only by grace, it is true. But you can't say you can be lawless and have grace.
You can say that our works without love are worthless. But you can't say that God asks us not to work for Him.
You can say that we live by faith. But you can't say that because of our faith we should not live for God, so we are not to obey.
this is irrelevant you cannot be lawless if you are saved so it wouldn't even come across in your head you know why? 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. [h=3]Romans 6:18 and what does it mean to be righteous? to be against the things of the flesh and we become a SERVANT to righteous IT IS IN YOUR NATURE NOT YOU TRYING TO BE RIGHTEOUS IT IS IN YOUR NATURE TO BE RIGHTEOUS lets take a look at what unrighteousness is 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,[/h]20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[h=3]Galatians 5:19-21 so which one are you my brother? it sounds like you are saying that if it wasn't for the law you will have free will to practise lawlessness but how can you say you are save by grace when we become SERVANTS TO RIGHTEOUS that should not even come out of your mouth if you are a servant to righteous.[/h]
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,258
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#40
This is an introductory phrase containing information relating to the rest of the post. It is a normal technique in communicating, an intoductory phrase. As per boasting, if I live in grace, and I mention it, it can only be boasting of Yeshua Messiah, the One who saved my soul.

Both of you should know this, but if that is as far as you got I suppose that explains your stance in all regard.

My post is totally derived from learning from the Word, Yeshua. If it bothers anyone that I boast of His grace, you will have to be bothered. What a waste of your efforst. Now I am going to put both of you on ignore. I have never done this before, but since you both say you see, Well, you see. You are my first and onlies, how about that?

that's as far as i got.
@ JaumeJ if you live in grace why do you need to boast that you live in grace? do you even know what grace is?