Is jesus a god ?

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SpiritofFire

Banned
#81
Jul 26, 2013
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#81
cfultz3 said:
Well then that says it all: the Word is an it. This it came in the flesh and was called Jesus. .

So all three are God....but yet, the Word is an it.....?
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1 John 1:1-2

1*That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2*(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

John made the same "mistake" I guess.
 
A

Adinah

Guest
#82
#82
Bryancampbell said:
Think of it like this friend,

God is like water, water can freeze and water can be evaporated. The earth is the only planet in our solar system to produce all three types of water at the same time, like the trinity, water ice and steam (evaporated water). All three forms is water but they hold a different attribute of structure. Water is the source of the other two forms.
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I have a hard time with that one, because I really don't think the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost are the exact same person. Certainly, they are all three of one mind. But Jesus went into the hills to pray to the Father when He was here on earth. He also said the Father is greater than I am. He also said that He stood by and delighted in everything the Father did (when creating the world). The spirit of God also descended upon Jesus when He was being baptized, saying, "this is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." That wasn't Jesus talking. That was a separate Person. Jesus said He had a witness to everything He said, suggesting another Person was also there. We're talking more than one Person here.
 
B

Bryancampbell

Guest
#83
#83
Adinah said:
I have a hard time with that one, because I really don't think the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost are the exact same person. Certainly, they are all three of one mind. But Jesus went into the hills to pray to the Father when He was here on earth. He also said the Father is greater than I am. He also said that He stood by and delighted in everything the Father did (when creating the world). The spirit of God also descended upon Jesus when He was being baptized, saying, "this is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." That wasn't Jesus talking. That was a separate Person. Jesus said He had a witness to everything He said, suggesting another Person was also there. We're talking more than one Person here.
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Friend, I believe there is three persons as One God. With water, you have three different attributes of structure but one source that defines those attributes as I stated :)
 
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Adinah

Guest
#84
#84
Bryancampbell said:
Friend, I believe there is three persons as One God. With water, you have three different attributes of structure but one source that defines those attributes as I stated :)
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Well I certainly believe Jesus is "God" in the same way the Father is "God." I'm only saying I don't think we really understand what "God" means. So I think of Him as the creator. I do think They are three different persons though, which apparently you do too. I just know some people actually believe Jesus is the Father. That's what I disagree with. Why would Jesus be sitting at the right hand of Himself? lol.
 
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Bryancampbell

Guest
#85
#85
Adinah said:
Well I certainly believe Jesus is "God" in the same way the Father is "God." I'm only saying I don't think we really understand what "God" means. So I think of Him as the creator. I do think They are three different persons though, which apparently you do too. I just know some people actually believe Jesus is the Father. That's what I disagree with. Why would Jesus be sitting at the right hand of Himself? lol.
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I think that is modelism that believes Jesus is the Father who is the Spirit, and that he changes from one to the other.
 
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Adinah

Guest
#86
#86
Bryancampbell said:
I think that is modelism that believes Jesus is the Father who is the Spirit, and that he changes from one to the other.
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Good grief. Do I have to learn all these different concepts? Do I have ta? :eek:
 
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Bryancampbell

Guest
#87
#87
Adinah said:
Good grief. Do I have to learn all these different concepts? Do I have ta? :eek:
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Lol conceptions of man is like the stars of heaven......You can't count them all.... :p
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#88
#88
SpiritofFire said:
1 John 1:1-2

1*That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2*(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

John made the same "mistake" I guess.
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1Jn 1:2 καιG2532 CONJ - (and) ηG3588 T-NSF ζωηG2222 N-NSF - (this Life) εφανερωθηG5319 V-API-3S - (Life was manifested) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) εωρακαμενG3708 V-RAI-1P-ATT - (we had seen) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) μαρτυρουμενG3140 V-PAI-1P - (we witness) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) απαγγελλομενG518 V-PAI-1P - (we announce) υμινG4771 P-2DP - (unto you*) τηνG3588 T-ASF ζωηνG2222 N-ASF - (this Life) τηνG3588 T-ASF αιωνιονG166 A-ASF - (the eternal) ητιςG3748 R-NSF - (which) ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S - (which is) προςG4314 PREP - (with) τονG3588 T-ASM πατεραG3962 N-ASM - (the Father) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) εφανερωθηG5319 V-API-3S - (it was manifested) ημινG1473 P-1DP - (unto us)
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1) It would seem that if "Life" is in the feminine, then any mention of this "Life" would also be in the feminine.

2) But, the writers of the KJV was faced with a dilemma. Should they have said, "and we have seen her" or "and we have seen it"? They could not have said, "We have seen Him", simply because "Life" is the subject of the sentence and is in the feminine. And if you would, notice that "it" is originally shadowed out in the KJV, giving the indication that it was an added word.

3) Notice also that "was manifested" should read, "she was manifested". Then again, would not calling this "Life" a she cause some to worship this she or consider Jesus a woman? The writers of the KJV did a fine job my inserting "it" and not "she".
 
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SpiritofFire

Banned
#89
Jul 26, 2013
1,451
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#89
cfultz3 said:
1) It would seem that if "Life" is in the feminine, then any mention of this "Life" would also be in the feminine.

2) But, the writers of the KJV was faced with a dilemma. Should they have said, "and we have seen her" or "and we have seen it"? They could not have said, "We have seen Him", simply because "Life" is the subject of the sentence and is in the feminine. And if you would, notice that "it" is originally shadowed out in the KJV, giving the indication that it was an added word.

3) Notice also that "was manifested" should read, "she was manifested". Then again, would not calling this "Life" a she cause some to worship this she or consider Jesus a woman? The writers of the KJV did a fine job my inserting "it" and not "she".
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Again knowledge of other languages is not needed.

John 5:26

26*For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Who is our mother?
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#90
#90
1Jn 1:2 καιG2532 CONJ - (and) ηG3588 T-NSF ζωηG2222 N-NSF - (this Life) εφανερωθηG5319 V-API-3S - (Life was manifested) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) εωρακαμενG3708 V-RAI-1P-ATT - (we had seen) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) μαρτυρουμενG3140 V-PAI-1P - (we witness) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) απαγγελλομενG518 V-PAI-1P - (we announce) υμινG4771 P-2DP - (unto you*) τηνG3588 T-ASF ζωηνG2222 N-ASF - (this Life) τηνG3588 T-ASF αιωνιονG166 A-ASF - (the eternal) ητιςG3748 R-NSF - (which) ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S - (which was) προςG4314 PREP - (with) τονG3588 T-ASM πατεραG3962 N-ASM - (the Father) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) εφανερωθηG5319 V-API-3S - (it was manifested) ημινG1473 P-1DP - (unto us)
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warranted correction
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#91
#91
SpiritofFire said:
Again knowledge of other languages is not needed.

John 5:26

26*For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Who is our mother?
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So this would be fine: and this Life was manifested and we had seen her and we do witness and announce to you* this eternal Life which was with the Father and she was manifested to us?

When one is trying to assert that the Word is an it, as though the Word was a mere thing, then YES knowing language is important. If not corrected, it would have one teaching that the Word was a created thing. When, all in all, it was the Word who created all things and uphold all things by HIS own power.

Eve is our mother. Will you now say that Eve is that Life?
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#92
#92
You said that it is not important for one to learn grammar, and we see what becomes of that. One not willing to see that "it" was shadowed out as an indication of it being inserted and that it was used in place of it being feminine, would preach God in the flesh as an it. Which you pointed out so assertively, that the Life was an "IT" (see, John said Life was an it)
 
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SpiritofFire

Banned
#93
Jul 26, 2013
1,451
5
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#93
cfultz3 said:
So this would be fine: and this Life was manifested and we had seen her and we do witness and announce to you* this eternal Life which was with the Father and she was manifested to us?

When one is trying to assert that the Word is an it, as though the Word was a mere thing, then YES knowing language is important. If not corrected, it would have one teaching that the Word was a created thing. When, all in all, it was the Word who created all things and uphold all things by HIS own power.



Eve is our mother. Will you now say that Eve is that Life?
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Eve was an allegory as Adam meant all of mankind. Using "her" would not confuse me. And again I'm saying that as long as the Father existed, He could talk.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#94
#94
SpiritofFire said:
Eve was an allegory as Adam meant all of mankind. Using "her" would not confuse me. And again I'm saying that as long as the Father existed, He could talk.
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But the usage of the inserted "it" confused you into saying that the Life was an it.
 
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SpiritofFire

Banned
#95
Jul 26, 2013
1,451
5
0
#95
cfultz3 said:
You said that it is not important for one to learn grammar, and we see what becomes of that. One not willing to see that "it" was shadowed out as an indication of it being inserted and that it was used in place of it being feminine, would preach God in the flesh as an it. Which you pointed out so assertively, that the Life was an "IT" (see, John said Life was an it)
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John 6:63

63*It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Surely the word Jesus spoke was not another being.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#97
#97
SpiritofFire said:
John 6:63

63*It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Surely the word Jesus spoke was not another being.
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Surely, the Word, who was sent by God to deliver a message to humans, spoke words from His mouth. Hence, "I speak". Was that "I" an it? Was the Word who came in flesh an it?

This simple distraction of implying that the words spoken equals the same as "the Word spoke" is beyond reasonable conversation.

Who was it that spoke creation into existence? Who was it that came and delivered a message? The Word!!! And the words He spoke was that message.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#98
#98
SpiritofFire said:
Again not confused.
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Well, if the word "Life" is in the feminine, but the KJV writers wrote "it" and it was that shadowed out "it" you pointed out to conclude the Word as a thing, then yes, you were confused.
 
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SpiritofFire

Banned
#99
Jul 26, 2013
1,451
5
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#99
cfultz3 said:
Well, if the word "Life" is in the feminine, but the KJV writers wrote "it" and it was that shadowed out "it" you pointed out to conclude the Word as a thing, then yes, you were confused.
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We will try this one more time. If JESUS said that the words He SPOKE were spirit and LIFE, then are those words another person?

If not a person, then what are they?
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#100
#100
SpiritofFire said:
We will try this one more time. If JESUS said that the words He SPOKE were spirit and LIFE, then are those words another person?

If not a person, then what are they?
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If one would but go and see that John 6:63 does not have the definite article attached to "spirit" or "life" then they would see that they are not spoken of as of being persons. They are used in the same manner as if were to say, "he is good", "he is dead", "he is tall". We know that person is not the personification of "good/dead/tall". So, we should not think the same here.

But, what is being taught is that the words He spoke is of the spirit and of the life. Meaning, His words are those our spirit are to cling to to lead a spiritual life. His words are those which leads to life at the end.

You yet fail to acknowledge that your assertiveness of pointing out the inserted "it" in that verse, in your attempt in calling the Word an "it", was in error.
 
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