So post your points of how the gifts have ended

[RickShafer]

you just made the claim.
but this bait & switch is typical of today's (not-really) prophets.

you've either been 'used in the gifting" (whatever that means) or you haven't.
if you say you have, you're claiming to be a prophet, but you won't accept the responsibility of the claim.

Carry on Zoned.
You can't tell the difference between a gift for the body of Jesus Christ and a calling(mantle) for the nation of Israel?
You need to read.
First O.T. (mantle), then N.T. (gift).
How can we reason together if you don't even know the difference.
You, like your spiritual forefathers, are stuck in the O.T.
Please read the new covenant.

 

[zone]

Wait a minute Ms.,........a child's greatest asset is his/hers parental love.
Now, Rotterdam says these verses mean once you are weaned from the milk you will be eating the meat of the gospel.
Therefore you would not need the faith and hope that is necessary for a mature believer who is being persecuted for his/her stance.
So faith and hope are over:when you receive stripes, or are beaten with rods, or cast adrift at sea, or imprisoned for the gospel's sake, or burned, or beheaded; - faith and hope are no longer necessary then, that is what he is saying.
- - - -Totally incongruent with actual christian life, but carry on.

rick, how can you write what you just wrote?
i dunno. so much invested i guess it's hard to change.


1 Corinthians 13
Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

[RickShafer]

rick, how can you write what you just wrote?
i dunno. so much invested i guess it's hard to change.


1 Corinthians 13
Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Another example of redundant error. Since you never can or will answer me, you are reduced to such as this:
- (Parsing scripture)
- - But then again, it's not new territory for you is it?

 

[zone]

Carry on Zoned.
You can't tell the difference between a gift for the body of Jesus Christ and a calling(mantle) for the nation of Israel?
You need to read.
First O.T. (mantle), then N.T. (gift).
How can we reason together if you don't even know the difference.
You, like your spiritual forefathers, are stuck in the O.T.
Please read the new covenant.

wiggle, wiggle wiggle.

you claim God has used you in "that gifting" (after specifically replying to a request to identify whether or not you are a prophet)

a prophet is a prophet is a prophet.
spin it any way you like.

please find "that gifting"; or "gifting" for me so i can see where you got it from.
show me from either OT or NT how a prophet is different in quality or purpose.

Ephesians 2:20
19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord

how many foundations in your house?
if you have any on the second floor i suggest you move out immediatley.

You, like your spiritual forefathers, are stuck in the O.T.

this is funny, too.
and ironic.
because the opposite is true.

Please read the new covenant.

i suggest you read The New Testament.
in context without inserting yourself into the exciting parts - which have been so downgraded Benny Hinn looks like a match for some people.

unless you were there and saw Jesus.
which you weren't.

 

[RickShafer]

Just either answer one of the three posts addressed to you, (the latest #102), or stop neighing.

 

[Sanashankar]

Wait a minute Ms.,........a child's greatest asset is his/hers parental love.
Now, Rotterdam says these verses mean once you are weaned from the milk you will be eating the meat of the gospel.
Therefore you would not need the faith and hope that is necessary for a mature believer who is being persecuted for his/her stance.
So faith and hope are over:when you receive stripes, or are beaten with rods, or cast adrift at sea, or imprisoned for the gospel's sake, or burned, or beheaded; - faith and hope are no longer necessary then, that is what he is saying.
- - - -Totally incongruent with actual christian life, but carry on.

Rotherham did not say that, it is taken from the bible called "Rotherhams expanded Bible". And I did not say hope and faith will cease or vanish away. I think u did not read the verses properly.

1C 13:8 . Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1C 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity.

See....and now abideth faith, hope and charity. The same way Charity (love) never faileth, Hope and faith will remain.

The greek word for "abideth" is

G3306 meno men'-o

a primary verb;

to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy).

So charity stays, hope stays and faith stays.


(Im not here to teach anybody (right or wrong), nor i am here to argue and win.If u think that way, u r mistaken)

 

[zone]

Another example of redundant error. Since you never can or will answer me, you are reduced to such as this:
- (Parsing scripture)
- - But then again, it's not new territory for you is it?

my dear friend.
anyone can follow the flow of the conversation.

i have answered over and over.
outside resources have been provided.
the history of pentecostalism has been provided and is available to anyone.

this is your thread:

Re: So post your points of how the gifts have ended

if you reject the church's orthodox position for the last 1800 years, then why not post evidence that the gifts have not ceased?
because you can't.

there are stories and claims made, about activities and thoughts and impressions and proclamations.

but, see, the Lord doesn't need any more prophets
He's already spoken.

there's not one single thing a prophet today can say that hasn't already been said in scripture.
and if it's already been said, why do i need it said in PARTIAL bits and pieces from people who claim they are prophets?
if they say anything that hasn't been said, they are claiming extra-biblical ongoing revelation (of prophetic quality and authority) or they are playing games.
if they are claiming extra-biblical ongoing revelation, scripture is virtually consigned to the bottom drawer.

you might accept that.
i don't.

i'll take my chances.

 

[RickShafer]

(I repost for Zone, lest she miss it) :

The Holy Spirit is repeatedly referred to in gender neutral terms.....Yet Jesus called Him a "He". - John 16:13.
Now, since the Holy Spirit had already come, what is "that which is perfect" that Paul refers to in I Corinthians 13?

- The Canon?
Matthew 23:35 (KJV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Please read.......was it that Zacharias that was slain between the the temple and the altar?

- - No!

Jesus never said this. Yet you will find this in all of the translations.
Why? Because the translators are just translating what was written.
Jesus was obviously referring to the writer of the book of Zachariah.
But a very early copyist made a mistake.
So don't tell me the Canon is "that which is perfect".

Please!
Just answer.

 

[RickShafer]

Goes for both of you.
Just answer.
This is not an argument about your favorite Bible commentary.
JUST ANSWER the argument. (Can you do that by your lonesome?)

 

[zone]

I'm not sure what you are saying. . .? "it is that they did not have ALL of what we now have. " They had the gospel. . .they were eyewitnesses. . .they knew about the power from on high coming. . . they had Paul's letters to the churches. . .which makes up most of our scripture today.

did they have them before he wrote them?
did he write them in real time as he was inspired and given the information?

or not?
is this really really hard?
why is it?

..........

scenario:

your Aunt lives in Florida.
you live in California.
your Mother wants you to get a message to your Aunt.

does your Aunt know what your Mother's message is until she receives your letter?
do you know what your Mother's message is UNTIL SHE TELLS YOU?

.....

fast forward to your great-great grandchildren.
they inherited your personal effects.
they now have a copy of the letter your Mother had you write (you made copies and so did your aunt).
they now know the sequence of events:

from whom the message originiated
who it was dictated to
who it was delivered to
what it said

and THEREBY
they are able to know what it was your Mother wanted your AUNT to know.
they learn a great deal about you; your Aunt, and your Mother because they have the letter.


even though they NEVER MET ANY OF YOU.

 

[1still_waters]

Is there anyone in this thread whom makes divinely inspired utterances that are not found in the Bible?

Anyone?

 

[zone]

Goes for both of you.
Just answer.
This is not an argument about your favorite Bible commentary.
JUST ANSWER the argument. (Can you do that by your lonesome?)

the gifts have ended because i have seen zero evidence that they continued.
i reached this conclusion by reading about the miraculous gifts in scripture; to whom they were given; for what purpose; and that one of the ones called and chosen and given many gifts and offices said the gifts would cease.
i compare what is recorded concerning the gifts they received and what they were for to what passes as those gifts today.

i see no relationship whatsoever.

clear?

 

[RickShafer]

Is there anyone in this thread whom makes divinely inspired utterances that are not found in the Bible?

Anyone?

Everyone will say they are.
Still Waters, answer my question to the other two.
You hold to the canon as 'that which is perfect'.
Please answer post #102.

 

[1still_waters]

Everyone will say they are.
Still Waters, answer my question to the other two.
You hold to the canon as 'that which is perfect'.
Please answer post #102.

Everyone will say the are uttering divinely inspired things that aren't found in the Bible?
Yikes.

The Bible is more perfect than anything some supposed modern day prophet has ever tried speaking into my life.

And no, I don't build a case for cessation based off of the 1 Cor 13 verse about "the perfect".

 

[RickShafer]

Everyone will say the are uttering divinely inspired things that aren't found in the Bible?
Yikes.

The Bible is more perfect than anything some supposed modern day prophet has ever tried speaking into my life.

And no, I don't build a case for cessation based off of the 1 Cor 13 verse about "the perfect".

Thank you!
I wanted you to answer a certain post, #102.

 

[RickShafer]

the gifts have ended because i have seen zero evidence that they continued.
i reached this conclusion by reading about the miraculous gifts in scripture; to whom they were given; for what purpose; and that one of the ones called and chosen and given many gifts and offices said the gifts would cease.
i compare what is recorded concerning the gifts they received and what they were for to what passes as those gifts today.

i see no relationship whatsoever.

clear?

You just simply will not answer because you cannot.
O.K. - - - - The canon is "that which is perfect", and it came.
You will think this for the rest of your life.
O.K.
Thanks for answering in the only way you could.
I expected as much.

 

[zone]

Is there anyone in this thread whom makes divinely inspired utterances that are not found in the Bible?

Anyone?

Everyone will say they are.

Everyone will say they are making divinely inspired utterances that are not found in the Bible?
or
Everyone will say they are making divinely inspired utterances that are found in the Bible?

must go out.
hopefully these divinely inspired utterances can be posted, dated and the prophet named.
otherwise we can not obey the command to test the spirits.
well, we can...but nobody has to take the heat.

.....

divinely inspired utterances

this is quite a claim.
ttyl

 

[1still_waters]

You just simply will not answer because you cannot.
O.K. - - - - The canon is "that which is perfect", and it came.
You will think this for the rest of your life.
O.K.
Thanks for answering in the only way you could.
I expected as much.

I see the logic bomb you're trying to put together Rick.

It comes something like this.

If you believe the scripture is "the perfect", then you're going to point to some scribal error, or textual variation, and say, "HA! See it's not perfect!"


I know this because you tried detonating this logic bomb before..

The Holy Spirit is repeatedly referred to in gender neutral terms.....Yet Jesus called Him a "He". - John 16:13.
Now, since the Holy Spirit had already come, what is "that which is perfect" that Paul refers to in I Corinthians 13?

- The Canon?
Matthew 23:35 (KJV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Please read.......was it that Zacharias that was slain between the the temple and the altar?

- - No!

Jesus never said this. Yet you will find this in all of the translations.
Why? Because the translators are just translating what was written.
Jesus was obviously referring to the writer of the book of Zachariah.
But a very early copyist made a mistake.
So don't tell me the Canon is "that which is perfect".

......But I will show you more if you persist.

Link--> http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...oints-how-gifts-have-ended-6.html#post1151873

When those folks rely on 1 Cor 13 and "the perfect" to prove cessationism, they're not saying there aren't scribal errors along the way. They're saying that the overall revelation in scripture is complete, hence no more is needed.

 

[zone]

You just simply will not answer because you cannot.
O.K. - - - - The canon is "that which is perfect", and it came.
You will think this for the rest of your life.
O.K.
Thanks for answering in the only way you could.
I expected as much.

you're not reading what i've written.
i said i suggest we do not use the word canon.

my position is the last words spoken to us by GOD through and about Jesus Christ are recorded in The Bible.
whenever those words were collected and considered canon is not my concern.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

did they have them before he wrote them?
did he write them in real time as he was inspired and given the information?

or not?
is this really really hard?
why is it?

Did they have them before he wrote them? Well, no. . .I suppose he didn't have them before he wrote them. . . He wrote them as he was inspired by God. He wrote them in his real time that he lived. Are those epistles that later were entered in as Scripture any different as scripture than they were as they were read in that time by those in that time? Same epistles that Paul wrote inspired by God. . .people read in real time. . .just as we read them now in our time. People in real time read and applied those epistles from Paul to their lives. . .today those epistles have been compiled into scripture. . .we can apply them to our lives in the same way those alive in Paul's time did.

scenario:

your Aunt lives in Florida.
you live in California.
your Mother wants you to get a message to your Aunt.

does your Aunt know what your Mother's message is until she receives your letter?
do you know what your Mother's message is UNTIL SHE TELLS YOU?
.....

fast forward to your great-great grandchildren.
they inherited your personal effects.
they now have a copy of the letter your Mother had you write (you made copies and so did your aunt).
they now know the sequence of events:

from whom the message originiated
who it was dictated to
who it was delivered to
what it said

and THEREBY
they are able to know what it was your Mother wanted your AUNT to know.
they learn a great deal about you; your Aunt, and your Mother because they have the letter.

even though they NEVER MET ANY OF YOU.

I really don't know what any of the above has to do with anything. . . .

Paul wrote AS he was inspired by God. He had those letters sent to the different churches AS he received revelation and wrote them, NOT years later. YEARS LATER, we have those SAME epistles in scripture, we are able to learn by his epistles what was to be doctrinal, what was needed for reproof and what was corrected throughout the early church. NOW, from what we have learned; we know what is the acceptable will of God for the church, the body of Christ. Those epistles were applicable in their time and are applicable in our time.

I think what you are trying to say is that those letters were just for those people at that time and therefore, ONLY apply to those people of that time. . . .

maybe what you are trying to say IS really that hard to understand,