If the wages of sin is death and we die, do we not all still have sin?

[SpiritofFire]

If we are still dying, then we still collect on the wage of sin. I do not want to collect that wage. How do you see us avoiding this?

 

[Tintin]

Jesus Christ's righteousness - trusting in him, making him your everything, accepting his grace in place of your sins. We will continue to sin until the day we die, but if you're a Christian, you have Christ's righteous sacrifice to clothe you and the Holy Spirit living in you to transform you daily to make you more like Christ.

 

[Bryancampbell]

Jesus Christ atonement paid that wage, that price by His blood. Physical death is inevitable, but the Holy Spirit brings life, change, and power to the believer.

 

[SpiritofFire]

Jesus Christ's righteousness - trusting in him, making him your everything, accepting his grace in place of your sins. We will continue to sin until the day we die, but if you're a Christian, you have Christ's righteous sacrifice to clothe you and the Holy Spirit living in you to transform you daily to make you more like Christ.

That is nice and all and I believe you. But will you die? So in death, you will still collect on a wage of sin. I believe Christ is risen, and that He said that whoever has Him will never die, or collect on the wage of sin.

So I'm asking what does that mean to you?
What does it mean to be a Christian? It's sooooo many different denominations and messages. All of them believe in Christ.

And you may answer that they aren't real Christians, but then I'll ask, what then makes up a "Christian"?

You may answer one way, but then another may come along and say no Tin Tin, THIS is what a true Christian is.

But what of the Muslims? Does this mean that they and all die for not being Christian? I can see that, but why do Christians die?

 

[SpiritofFire]

Jesus Christ atonement paid that wage, that price by His blood. Physical death is inevitable, but the Holy Spirit brings life, change, and power to the believer.

The bible says that there are some who will not sleep, but will be changed. I guess you can compare this to what happened to Enoch.

 

[Bryancampbell]

The bible says that there are some who will not sleep, but will be changed. I guess you can compare this to what happened to Enoch.

I guess if you want to get technical. Most of us will die. Don't we all in the faith get new bodies? Oh snap!

 

[SpiritofFire]

I guess if you want to get technical. Most of us will die. Don't we all in the faith get new bodies? Oh snap!

I agree with you. So if ultimately we die a sinner at least by apppearance nonetheless, would you rather die to save the world, or to go simply "with the flow of things"?

But again Christ said that if you have Him, you will never die. I am asking as a believer, how do we get to THIS? Christ is no longer in the grave. And if God is not one of the dead, then where are the subjects of God again if we all go to the grave?

 

[GRA]

Romans 6:

[SUP]23[/SUP] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The word 'death' in this verse is speaking of 'spiritual' death.

The phrase 'eternal life' in this verse is speaking of 'spiritual' life.

Accepting the free gift of God - the Lord Jesus Christ - is the necessary requirement to avoid this spiritual death - and, to obtain this spiritual life...

 

[Cobus]

Here is the ONLY way to not be part of SECOND death....

Am I dieing? NOPE! God gaurenteed me, If I KEEP His saying I shall NEVER see death. Here is the thing I ask you... Is Abraham dead right now? What about Lazarus, and the rich man? Or what about Moses or Elijah? Are they DEAD? Nope! Not even the sinners that "died" in their sin are DEAD YET. Oh they passed on to the other side, but they are not DEAD YET!

If we leave our mortal bodies God does not see that as DEAD! But if we die off our old life God sees that as DEAD! And God does not even KNOW the lost, the ones that are ALREADY DEAD in their sins.


Matthew 7 says.... I HAVE NEVER KNOWN YOU, YOU THAT WORK THE INIQUITY.... Does God lie, or did He NEVER know them? But for the ones he FOREKNOWN, they shall NEVER see death. Why because for the ones he forknown he calls, justify and GLORIFY... Glorifiction is LIFE EVERLASTING... Not life some-lasting, life EVERLASTING.


Our mortal bodies is only a vessel for a period. We leave this vessel BEFORE it goes to dust... The moment God moves in, we move out! How do you explain God is ALL in His people? Like Paul says, HE DIED was crucified with Christ, and Jesus lives in him.... If you can understand that then you will know..... THE OLD IS GONE, PASSED, DEAD... behold EVERYTHING IS MADE NEW.... Christ in us, and we in HIM... Were are we? In ourselves, or in HIM? Jesus said... Father I want them who believe in me to be with me where I AM, THAT THEY MAY BEHOLD MY GLORY.... John 8 John 17.


Am I dieing? NOPE! IS my flesh coming to an end, Oh yes, and may the death of this flesh ALSO bing glory to God, like the death of of Peter, John 21... Even Peter's death glorified God... John 21:19...


I hope you also see how the SECOND death is the one to avoid.... And we should do it by dieing to the old man and put on the NEW ONE... And look just how special this NEW MAN IS...
Eph 4:24... Note the TRUE HOLINESS!!! AFTER GOD IT IS RECREATED.... WOW! And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[Bryancampbell]

I agree with you. So if ultimately we die a sinner at least by apppearance nonetheless, would you rather die to save the world, or to go simply "with the flow of things"?

But again Christ said that if you have Him, you will never die. I am asking as a believer, how do we get to THIS? Christ is no longer in the grave. And if God is not one of the dead, then where are the subjects of God again if we all go to the grave?

Well I cannot save the world, and I don't want to go along with any secular ideas lol.

But, when Christ talked about passing over death to life, He referred to rebirth and the escape of condemnation (death), and the promise of everlasting life. We may go to the grave physically, but because we are born again, spiritually we have been raised from the life in sin. Putting away both spiritual death and hell from our midst. But we will receive new bodies in the end, both to the living and dead in Christ.

 

[SpiritofFire]

Romans 6:

[SUP]23[/SUP] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The word 'death' in this verse is speaking of 'spiritual' death.

The phrase 'eternal life' in this verse is speaking of 'spiritual' life.

Accepting the free gift of God - the Lord Jesus Christ - is the necessary requirement to avoid this spiritual death - and, to obtain this spiritual life...

Now this is what I don't understand. Call it good old common sense or childish foolishness, but if 'death' in this verse means 'spiritual death', then what is physical death? And if my 'spirit' is 'dead', how is that I am still alive, being just the flesh alone?

The bible also says that the spirit belongs to God and will return to God. To do that, it has to be living.

 

[SpiritofFire]

Well I cannot save the world, and I don't want to go along with any secular ideas lol.

But, when Christ talked about passing over death to life, He referred to rebirth and the escape of condemnation (death), and the promise of everlasting life in His kingdom. We may go to the grave physically, but because we are born again, spiritually we have been raised from the life in sin. Putting away both spiritual death and hell from our midst. But we will receive new bodies in the end, both to the living and dead in Christ.

I only know one death. And I want to beat that.

If I ask you do you believe that God provides for your every need? You will answer yes.

And if I then ask you to then quit your job, you may say no, God provides me with the means to make a living.

But to base my belief that God provides by getting a job, or making money, then what of those who get money illegally or what the world considers sinful? What of those that can not provide in any means? They die every day. Does this mean that God does not provide for them? Then that would go back to what I said earlier. Maybe they suffer for not being Christian (if you can define it). But then I think that Christians suffer too!

And on top of that I see some Muslims and some in other religions prospering. Does this mean that God provided for them?

 

[SpiritofFire]

Here is the ONLY way to not be part of SECOND death....

Am I dieing? NOPE! God gaurenteed me, If I KEEP His saying I shall NEVER see death. Here is the thing I ask you... Is Abraham dead right now? What about Lazarus, and the rich man? Or what about Moses or Elijah? Are they DEAD? Nope! Not even the sinners that "died" in their sin are DEAD YET. Oh they passed on to the other side, but they are not DEAD YET!

If we leave our mortal bodies God does not see that as DEAD! But if we die off our old life God sees that as DEAD! And God does not even KNOW the lost, the ones that are ALREADY DEAD in their sins.


Matthew 7 says.... I HAVE NEVER KNOWN YOU, YOU THAT WORK THE INIQUITY.... Does God lie, or did He NEVER know them? But for the ones he FOREKNOWN, they shall NEVER see death. Why because for the ones he forknown he calls, justify and GLORIFY... Glorifiction is LIFE EVERLASTING... Not life some-lasting, life EVERLASTING.


Our mortal bodies is only a vessel for a period. We leave this vessel BEFORE it goes to dust... The moment God moves in, we move out! How do you explain God is ALL in His people? Like Paul says, HE DIED was crucified with Christ, and Jesus lives in him.... If you can understand that then you will know..... THE OLD IS GONE, PASSED, DEAD... behold EVERYTHING IS MADE NEW.... Christ in us, and we in HIM... Were are we? In ourselves, or in HIM? Jesus said... Father I want them who believe in me to be with me where I AM, THAT THEY MAY BEHOLD MY GLORY.... John 8 John 17.


Am I dieing? NOPE! IS my flesh coming to an end, Oh yes, and may the death of this flesh ALSO bing glory to God, like the death of of Peter, John 21... Even Peter's death glorified God... John 21:19...


I hope you also see how the SECOND death is the one to avoid.... And we should do it by dieing to the old man and put on the NEW ONE... And look just how special this NEW MAN IS...
Eph 4:24... Note the TRUE HOLINESS!!! AFTER GOD IT IS RECREATED.... WOW! And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

I agree with you. How do we apply this to our reality? I do not want to die. I want to be changed. I want to put on the new man.

 

[SpiritofFire]

I agree with you. How do we apply this to our reality? I do not want to die. I want to be changed. I want to put on the new man.

To add, I see the physical death we go through now as our second death. I say that because we live in the generation that has the truth so easily accessible. We know what happened in the past on some level or another, even if it is only understanding, that to us they are dead. We are hurt by it because again Christ is risen, therefore there is no more a reason to die. But I believe we continue to do so because we continue to build upon what we all know goes to the grave.

 

[Cobus]

Here is how.... And this is not my promise but God's.... The fact that you want to be changed is already a sign that God has started to change you. God starts with the CALLING... the CALLING is the "WANT TO CHANGE". Now God has made a promise to us in this verse.... 1 Thes 5:23 and 24... And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

It is God's FAITHFULNESS that will have us put on the NEW MAN.... My friend do not SETTLE FOR LESS. This WHOLLY sanctification is indeed WHOLLY! There are many with the appearance of righteousness, but they have forsaken the power thereof.

My advice to you.... Start reading the Bible, with God as your TEACHER, and ask God with an open heart, to REVEAL SCRIPTURE to you! God's will is very clear in His Word. And when HE SHOWS YOU WHAT HE WANTS, then it becomes your LIFE!
That is how God makes sure HIS WORD DOES NOT RETURN EMPTY-HANDED!

Thank you for your friendship, and your time. I know God is faithful and HE SHALL DO IT FOR YOU!

 

[SpiritofFire]

So in short, I am asking for solutions to our real problems. How do we stop death? By not collecting a wage of sin. But how do we do that? I believe that it is our job to put these things under our feet.

We live in a vain world. So I might not get paid for it, but I want this to be my Job. Can you help me to build a resume? I offered to do away with a major obstacle to this in doing away with money and simply giving people whatever they need for free. Any other suggestions will be appreciated.

Any questions will be answered. Just please no childish slander. I honestly believe we can save the world through Christ.

 

[Bryancampbell]

I only know one death. And I want to beat that.

If I ask you do you believe that God provides for your every need? You will answer yes.

And if I then ask you to then quit your job, you may say no, God provides me with the means to make a living.

But to base my belief that God provides by getting a job, or making money, then what of those who get money illegally or what the world considers sinful? What of those that can not provide in any means? They die every day. Does this mean that God does not provide for them? Then that would go back to what I said earlier. Maybe they suffer for not being Christian (if you can define it). But then I think that Christians suffer too!

And on top of that I see some Muslims and some in other religions prospering. Does this mean that God provided for them?

Brother,

There is two death. One is the separation of body and soul, called physical death. The other is the separation of soul and God. This is condemnation, this is literally the lake of fire just as Revelation 20:14-15 puts it. Only the unbelievers go there. Once you accept who Jesus is, what He did, why He did it, by faith you are saved.

Now there is different types of faith. These are the ones I can think of.

Doctrinal faith: believing God's word and what it teaches.
Saving faith: trusting Christ alone for salvation.
Justifying faith: acknowledging you are forgiven and are justified as righteous.
Indwelling faith: trusting God's word in and through ourselves. Knowing He is with us, dwells inside us, and creates a new person within us.
Daily faith: that everyday trust and dependence on God on a daily basis, providing when when you don't realize it or see it yet. This also helps you be sanctified in the Lord.

Once you believe in Jesus and what He has done. That 'saving faith' is the elevator to heaven, and the escape from the second death. Salvation is everlasting life. Condemnation is the second death. If you believe that you are saved and justified through Jesus' gift, you don't have to worry about the second death because you obtain life.

When a Christian puts on their daily faith, they aren't saying "God I don't have to own a house or a job" it's actually faith and dependence on Him throughout everything that you do in life. You may depend on Him to help you be more patient with people at work, and be able to work effectively. You may depend on Him to get you through being broke, sometimes even homeless. We go to the Father as a child goes to his dad. We don't get the full luxurious life. We live a life Christ filled. Not what I want done, but how God wants myself to go through life.

When you suffer persecution, or hard times. Daily faith should apply in all situations. See a unbeliever may go through something, like a Muslim. But they aren't doing it for the Lord. That's what stands out. Why are you suffering? An atheist may be suffering through life, but why? What keeps him going strong? A Christian goes through life for Jesus, and when it's something hard, their faith increases as they depend on Jesus. An atheist cannot say the same. It's not really what you go through, it's actually how you go through it.

God provides your needs, but remember He provides when you don't even realize it, and it is always His timing to give you what you need. That's why Jesus said seek the kingdom of God first then everything else will be added to you.

 

[SpiritofFire]

Brother,

There is two death. One is the separation of body and soul, called physical death. The other is the separation of soul and God. This is condemnation, this is literally the lake of fire just as Revelation 20:14-15 puts it. Only the unbelievers go there. Once you accept who Jesus is, what He did, why He did it, by faith you are saved.

Now there is different types of faith. These are the ones I can think of.

Doctrinal faith: believing God's word and what it teaches.
Saving faith: trusting Christ alone for salvation.
Justifying faith: acknowledging you are forgiven and are justified as righteous.
Indwelling faith: trusting God's word in and through ourselves. Knowing He is with us, dwells inside us, and creates a new person within us.
Daily faith: that everyday trust and dependence on God on a daily basis, providing when when you don't realize it or see it yet. This also helps you be sanctified in the Lord.

Once you believe in Jesus and what He has done. That 'saving faith' is the elevator to heaven, and the escape from the second death. Salvation is everlasting life. Condemnation is the second death. If you believe that you are saved and justified by Jesus' gift, you don't have to worry about the second death because you obtain life.

When a Christian puts on their daily faith, they aren't saying "God I don't have to own a house or a job" it's actually faith and dependence on Him throughout everything that you do in life. You may depend on Him to help you be more patient with people at work, and be able to work effectively. You may depend on Him to get you through being broke, sometimes even homeless. We go to the Father as a child goes to his dad. We don't get the full luxurious life. We live a life Christ filled. Not what I want done, but how God wants myself to go through life.

When you suffer persecution, or hard times. Daily faith should apply in all situations. See a unbeliever may go through something, like a Muslim. But they aren't doing it for the Lord. That's what stands out. Why are you suffering? An atheist may be suffering through life, but why? What keeps him going strong? A Christian goes through life for Jesus, and when it's something hard, their faith increases as they depend on Jesus. An atheist cannot say the same. It's not really what you go through, it's actually how you go through it.

God provides your needs, but remember He provides when you don't even realize it, and it is always His timing to give you what you need. That's why Jesus said seek the kingdom of God first then everything else will be added to you.

The bible says all men die once. Are we not baptized in water? And if the bible says that God is a consuming fire, then we are indeed consumed by that eternal fire until it refines.

Again Christ is not in the grave. Neither then are His subjects. The second death is the process of "killing death". It is called the second death because the penalty of the appointed first death was payed for. And we all have knowledge of this.

 

[Cobus]

There is a chance that you may be one of these...
1 Thes 4:15 to 17.... Check out these people will go up in a cloud like Elijah and Henoch.... They would propably be changed as they fare up to the Lord....

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Bryancampbell]

The bible says all men die once. Are we not baptized in water? And if the bible says that God is a consuming fire, then we are indeed consumed by that eternal fire until it refines.

Again Christ is not in the grave. Neither then are His subjects. The second death is the process of "killing death". It is called the second death because the penalty of the appointed first death was payed for. And we all have knowledge of this.

Eternal fire and Spiritual revival (fire) are very distinctive. Eternal fire is punishment, Spiritual living is what refines us. Different fire bro. Holy Spirit is the fire that burns away our sinfulness.

It was the second death that was paid for, but if you don't want to believe this, that's up to you.