What will you do when God calls for civil disobedience?

[RedTent]

God gives government authority over us, and we are to obey. Sometimes the government makes laws regarding issues the bible says is immoral, so we are forced to choose between following divine truth and civil law. That happened in Germany under Hitler.

It means to follow divine truth when the crowd prefers to follow religious convention and tradition. And at times it means to disobey what is an otherwise legally enacted civil law if it directly conflicts with God’s law.

It does not conflict with God’s law when government tax us, when it makes laws in regard to our health care, or even about military conscription. There is no biblical reason not to obey, and we are told in the bible to obey authority.

However, we find that the government is making laws about homosexuality, gay marriage, abortion, adultery, cohabitation, sex outside of marriage, minor children indulging in medical birth control, and taking unfair advantage of others in investments. These things have to do with God’s law. More and more we are called on to choose what to do. There are lawsuits already, forcing people to accept gay marriage in their Christian business, and even forcing ministers to perform gay marriage based on laws not to discriminate. I think it is a forewarning of what is to come. We need to decide, now, what our stand will be.

For a Believer our only choice is to follow the Lord’s definitions of morality and of preference. So as with the example of Daniel, when the government oversteps God’s intended purpose for it, and the government decides to redefine morality and preference, we are under no obligation in God’s eyes to adhere to it. In fact, especially as Christian, we have a duty to disregard or even disobey laws that are immoral from God’s perspective if we are pushed into a corner and have no choice but to make a decision.

Daniel obeyed government’s law so thoroughly he was made head of all,just under the king. But Daniel is an example to us of standing firm in his obedience to God’s laws.

 

[Richie_2uk]

Yes we are to follow by the law of our government, regardless of how corrupted they are, and how they making people poor, and getting things wrong, while people are suffering from there actions. I guess its hard for us to follow people who don't care, and who are money driven, and oil driven and gold driven only to there own care. But we think this is bad now? this is just the birth pains, you wait till the governments of the world will crumble, before Jesus Comes back.

But he endures to the end will be saved,

 

[Blain]

I will obey the Government as long as it doesn't contradict God's ways but if it does I refuse to accept it. they can put me in prison if they wish I know where I stand

 

[Hizikyah]

I think all here need to know about "Clergy Response Teams"

Clergy Response Teams - YouTube

Feds Train Clergy To "Quell Dissent" During Martial Law
Shocking KSLA 12 news report confirms story we broke last year, Pastors to cite Romans 13 as reason for public to obey government orders, relinquish guns and be taken to camps during state of emergency [TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Thursday, August 16, 2007[/TD]
[TD="width: 17"][/TD]
[TD="width: 17"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

A shocking KSLA news report has confirmed the story we first broke last year, that Clergy Response Teams are being trained by the federal government to "quell dissent" and pacify citizens to obey the government in the event of a declaration of martial law. In May 2006, we exposed the existence of a nationwide FEMA program which is training Pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to "obey the government" in preparation for the implementation of martial law, property and firearm seizures, mass vaccination programs and forced relocation. A whistleblower who was secretly enrolled into the program told us that the feds were clandestinely recruiting religious leaders to help implement Homeland Security directives in anticipation of a potential bio-terrorist attack, any natural disaster or a nationally declared emergency.

(Article continues below)​

​

The first directive was for Pastors to preach to their congregations Romans 13, the often taken out of context bible passage that was used by Hitler to hoodwink Christians into supporting him, in order to teach them to "obey the government" when martial law is declared.​

It was related to the Pastors that quarantines, martial law and forced relocation were a problem for state authorities when enforcing federal mandates due to the "cowboy mentality" of citizens standing up for their property and second amendment rights as well as farmers defending their crops and livestock from seizure. It was stressed that the Pastors needed to preach subservience to the authorities ahead of time in preparation for the round-ups and to make it clear to the congregation that "this is for their own good." Pastors were told that they would be backed up by law enforcement in controlling uncooperative individuals and that they would even lead SWAT teams in attempting to quell resistance. Though some doubted the accuracy of this report at the time due to its fundamentally disturbing implications, the story has now been confirmed by a KSLA 12 news report, in which participating clergy and officials admit to the existence of the program. Watch the video.

Clergy Response Teams - YouTube

The report entertains the scenario of martial law as depicted in the movie The Siege and states that "quelling dissent would be critical."
​

Dr. Durell Tuberville serves as chaplain for the Shreveport Fire Department and the Caddo Sheriff's Office. Tuberville said of the clergy team's mission, "the primary thing that we say to anybody is, 'let's cooperate and get this thing over with and then we'll settle the differences once the crisis is over.'"
Such clergy response teams would walk a tight-rope during martial law between the demands of the government on the one side, versus the wishes of the public on the other. "In a lot of cases, these clergy would already be known in the neighborhoods in which they're helping to diffuse that situation," assured Sandy Davis. He serves as the director of the Caddo-Bossier Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness.
​

For the clergy team, one of the biggest tools that they will have in helping calm the public down or to obey the law is the bible itself, specifically Romans 13. Dr. Tuberville elaborated, "because the government's established by the Lord, you know. And, that's what we believe in the Christian faith. That's what's stated in the scripture."​

So there you have it - Homeland Security are working with local police departments and religious leaders to prepare for the declaration of martial law and in particular developing techniques they will employ during the crisis to "quell dissent." Phony Christian leaders are brainwashing their congregations to accept the premise that the totalitarian police state is "of the Lord" and that they should get on their knees and lick jackboots while the round-ups take place as citizens are processed into quarantine zones and detention camps by the National Guard and U.S. troops returning from Iraq.

The precedent for mass gun confiscation and martial law in times of a real or manufactured emergency was set during Hurricane Katrina, when police and National Guard patrols forced home owners - even in areas unaffected by the hurricane - to hand over their legally owned firearms at gunpoint. This is a clear precursor for the imminent declaration of a state of emergency, a scenario that President Bush codified in his recent Presidential Decision Directive of May 9th, which states in the event of a "catastrophic event" the President can take total control over the government and the country, bypassing all other levels of government at the state, federal, local, territorial and tribal levels, and thus ensuring total unprecedented dictatorial power.​

The scope of the program is so secretive that even Homeland Security Committee member and Congressman Peter DeFazio was denied access to view the classified portion of the documents.

Clergy Response Teams - See how the Spirit of Antichrist, Your Local Church, and our American Government are teaming up to handle Christians for the Last Days!

 

[Blain]

I think all here need to know about "Clergy Response Teams"

Clergy Response Teams - YouTube

Feds Train Clergy To "Quell Dissent" During Martial Law
Shocking KSLA 12 news report confirms story we broke last year, Pastors to cite Romans 13 as reason for public to obey government orders, relinquish guns and be taken to camps during state of emergency [TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Thursday, August 16, 2007
[/TD]
[TD="width: 17"][/TD]
[TD="width: 17"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

A shocking KSLA news report has confirmed the story we first broke last year, that Clergy Response Teams are being trained by the federal government to "quell dissent" and pacify citizens to obey the government in the event of a declaration of martial law. In May 2006, we exposed the existence of a nationwide FEMA program which is training Pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to "obey the government" in preparation for the implementation of martial law, property and firearm seizures, mass vaccination programs and forced relocation. A whistleblower who was secretly enrolled into the program told us that the feds were clandestinely recruiting religious leaders to help implement Homeland Security directives in anticipation of a potential bio-terrorist attack, any natural disaster or a nationally declared emergency.

(Article continues below)​

​

The first directive was for Pastors to preach to their congregations Romans 13, the often taken out of context bible passage that was used by Hitler to hoodwink Christians into supporting him, in order to teach them to "obey the government" when martial law is declared.​

It was related to the Pastors that quarantines, martial law and forced relocation were a problem for state authorities when enforcing federal mandates due to the "cowboy mentality" of citizens standing up for their property and second amendment rights as well as farmers defending their crops and livestock from seizure. It was stressed that the Pastors needed to preach subservience to the authorities ahead of time in preparation for the round-ups and to make it clear to the congregation that "this is for their own good." Pastors were told that they would be backed up by law enforcement in controlling uncooperative individuals and that they would even lead SWAT teams in attempting to quell resistance. Though some doubted the accuracy of this report at the time due to its fundamentally disturbing implications, the story has now been confirmed by a KSLA 12 news report, in which participating clergy and officials admit to the existence of the program. Watch the video.

Clergy Response Teams - YouTube

The report entertains the scenario of martial law as depicted in the movie The Siege and states that "quelling dissent would be critical."
​

Dr. Durell Tuberville serves as chaplain for the Shreveport Fire Department and the Caddo Sheriff's Office. Tuberville said of the clergy team's mission, "the primary thing that we say to anybody is, 'let's cooperate and get this thing over with and then we'll settle the differences once the crisis is over.'"
Such clergy response teams would walk a tight-rope during martial law between the demands of the government on the one side, versus the wishes of the public on the other. "In a lot of cases, these clergy would already be known in the neighborhoods in which they're helping to diffuse that situation," assured Sandy Davis. He serves as the director of the Caddo-Bossier Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness.
​

For the clergy team, one of the biggest tools that they will have in helping calm the public down or to obey the law is the bible itself, specifically Romans 13. Dr. Tuberville elaborated, "because the government's established by the Lord, you know. And, that's what we believe in the Christian faith. That's what's stated in the scripture."​

So there you have it - Homeland Security are working with local police departments and religious leaders to prepare for the declaration of martial law and in particular developing techniques they will employ during the crisis to "quell dissent." Phony Christian leaders are brainwashing their congregations to accept the premise that the totalitarian police state is "of the Lord" and that they should get on their knees and lick jackboots while the round-ups take place as citizens are processed into quarantine zones and detention camps by the National Guard and U.S. troops returning from Iraq.

The precedent for mass gun confiscation and martial law in times of a real or manufactured emergency was set during Hurricane Katrina, when police and National Guard patrols forced home owners - even in areas unaffected by the hurricane - to hand over their legally owned firearms at gunpoint. This is a clear precursor for the imminent declaration of a state of emergency, a scenario that President Bush codified in his recent Presidential Decision Directive of May 9th, which states in the event of a "catastrophic event" the President can take total control over the government and the country, bypassing all other levels of government at the state, federal, local, territorial and tribal levels, and thus ensuring total unprecedented dictatorial power.​

The scope of the program is so secretive that even Homeland Security Committee member and Congressman Peter DeFazio was denied access to view the classified portion of the documents.

Clergy Response Teams - See how the Spirit of Antichrist, Your Local Church, and our American Government are teaming up to handle Christians for the Last Days!

As I said before, I know where I stand. I accepted a fate where I would have to stand for my beliefs long ago. I always had a feeling I Might suffer greatly for my faith, but as to how that would be I am not sure but I accepted it anyways.
I don't know who the antichrist is, or when the tribulation will begin but I feel the tribulation is close and soon we all may have to decide where we stand. we may all have to make the choice to either give up our beliefs in chirst or suffer soon enough. If the one world order actually comes to pass I have no doubt a one world religion would also come with it, in which time Christianity would most likely be illegal. And honestly the way we are heading I would not be surprised.

 

[Hizikyah]

the one world religion is being developed by something called "ECCUMENISIM" or "the ECCUMENICAL MOVEMENT"

 

[Blain]

the one world religion is being developed by something called "ECCUMENISIM" or "the ECCUMENICAL MOVEMENT"

Who? I have never heard of these people.

 

[Hizikyah]

Who? I have never heard of these people.

The Roman UNIVERSAL Church is leading it... Catholic means UNIVERSAL...hidden in plain sight...

Ecumenism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Decree on Ecumrnism - Unitatis Redintegratio

 

[ChristianWrigley]

Do people think the NWO is real? Do you believe Christianity will be outlawed?
I think the government in England are doing a fantastic job turning people away from the Church of England. I have seen two churches close in my area because secularisation is taking over and our numbers are falling.

 

[Hizikyah]

Do people think the NWO is real? Do you believe Christianity will be outlawed?
I think the government in England are doing a fantastic job turning people away from the Church of England. I have seen two churches close in my area because secularisation is taking over and our numbers are falling.

are $1 bills real in america? because on the beack of them it says (in latin, "announcing conception, new order secular or (one)."

and yeah

US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group' | Fox News

US Army Labeled Evangelicals, Catholics as Examples of Religious Extremism - Fox Nation

 

[ChristianWrigley]

Things seem to be happening in America but not here in Britain. I feel like I have woken up recently instead of blindly following the media/government so I'm still coming to terms with all of these things. I know things are going to get harder too but do people think the end times are coming and do they think the book of revelations are playing out? I'm genuinly asking because I do feel like things are worse (people becoming more aggressive, resession, secularisation etc)

 

[Hizikyah]

Things seem to be happening in America but not here in Britain. I feel like I have woken up recently instead of blindly following the media/government so I'm still coming to terms with all of these things. I know things are going to get harder too but do people think the end times are coming and do they think the book of revelations are playing out? I'm genuinly asking because I do feel like things are worse (people becoming more aggressive, resession, secularisation etc)

i think they are certianly playing out, hoe close IDK.

this is an unfinished series, 4 parts so far, I think it a must see...

Revelation Study 1 - YouTube

 

[just-me]

Do people think the NWO is real? Do you believe Christianity will be outlawed?
I think the government in England are doing a fantastic job turning people away from the Church of England. I have seen two churches close in my area because secularisation is taking over and our numbers are falling.

It’s happening right now. In the US it isn't the denominations, or the religious sect, but rather the morals that the church used to have held dear, as God's Word. It's called the falling away pointing directly to denominations that used to be loving and moral, ministering the Word of God. In truth today, the church is as divided in doctrinal beliefs as the first church was with the Pharisees.

Now, for the sake of preservation this falsehood accepts corruption, and calls it love. They fight against exhortation by calling it condemnation. They accept a separation of church and state, calling it constitutional when it isn't, and then use the scripture that says we are in this world and not of it for an excuse to let corruption flourish with no boundaries just to keep themselves from being hated.

No, it isn’t denominations that are being targeted so much as it is the true church assisted by established denominations. What I just said, I believe is true, but I will be hated by some for saying it.

 

[Misty77]

When you need to engage in civil disobedience, contact a Christian law firm that specializes in religious liberty. They will inform you of you rights and guaranteed liberties and help you create a plan of action. If you go about it properly, you might even influence laws to be changed. The important thing from a legal aspect is setting case precedent that furthers our cause. By acting foolishly or impetuously, you can set case precedent that sets us back and makes our liberties even harder to defend. You can send me a pm, and I can give you more information.

 

[crossnote]

The ONE thing worse than Ceaser's abuse is our SILENCE.

 

[Richie_2uk]

The Roman UNIVERSAL Church is leading it... Catholic means UNIVERSAL...hidden in plain sight...

Ecumenism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Decree on Ecumrnism - Unitatis Redintegratio

cant be hidden if you know about it lol.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

God gives government authority over us, and we are to obey. Sometimes the government makes laws regarding issues the bible says is immoral, so we are forced to choose between following divine truth and civil law. That happened in Germany under Hitler.

I partially agree, but I also think that rulers who become a terror to good, and an accomplice to evil, in some ways abrogate their authority.

Romans 13:3 - 4 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

It does not conflict with God’s law when government tax us,

I disagree. How did the Pharisees try to trap Jesus, if Caesar's taxes were not theft? Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

when it makes laws in regard to our health care

A Christian's body belongs to God. We are not owned by government. 1 Corinthians 6:19 - 20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

, or even about military conscription.

Refer to the above on ownership. Governments do not own Christians, and therefore they have no rights to enslave. Also note God's commandment of not murdering is higher than any of a government's to commit murder. Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

There is no biblical reason not to obey, and we are told in the bible to obey authority.

Romans 13 says we should submit to our government, and their tributes etc., but I believe this can also depend on a Christian's own conscience, as the authority mentioned in the bible seems to be a more godly authority (terror to evil, praise to good). I'm not saying Christians become revolutionaries, but I am saying there are many good, biblical reasons to resist even such tyranny as theft, slavery and murder.

In addition, in many Western countries, governmental power comes from the people (as outlined in their constitutions). So if this is true, and a government is not aligned with the will of its people (i.e. trying to elicit taxes, slaves and the murder of its enemies) and the people do not enforce this wickedness, surely it is the government that is in rebellion to the people, not the people to the government?

 

[RedTent]

I partially agree, but I also think that rulers who become a terror to good, and an accomplice to evil, in some ways abrogate their authority.

Romans 13:3 - 4 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

I disagree. How did the Pharisees try to trap Jesus, if Caesar's taxes were not theft? Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
A Christian's body belongs to God. We are not owned by government. 1 Corinthians 6:19 - 20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Refer to the above on ownership. Governments do not own Christians, and therefore they have no rights to enslave. Also note God's commandment of not murdering is higher than any of a government's to commit murder. Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.


Romans 13 says we should submit to our government, and their tributes etc., but I believe this can also depend on a Christian's own conscience, as the authority mentioned in the bible seems to be a more godly authority (terror to evil, praise to good). I'm not saying Christians become revolutionaries, but I am saying there are many good, biblical reasons to resist even such tyranny as theft, slavery and murder.

In addition, in many Western countries, governmental power comes from the people (as outlined in their constitutions). So if this is true, and a government is not aligned with the will of its people (i.e. trying to elicit taxes, slaves and the murder of its enemies) and the people do not enforce this wickedness, surely it is the government that is in rebellion to the people, not the people to the government?

WOW! This needs careful thought.

 

[Elizabeth619]

We are to obey God over man.

 

[LT]

the one world religion is being developed by something called "ECCUMENISIM" or "the ECCUMENICAL MOVEMENT"

Isn't unity exactly what Christ commanded after the last supper?
If any of those men trust in Christ alone for their salvation, then they are our brothers; even if they call themselves Catholic. I think too many people are studying too much eschatology and not enough Gospel and Epistles.
Learn from the clear doctrine, then move to the unclear(prophecy).

I don't fully support the way this "ECCUMENICAL MOVEMENT" is happening, but the spirit of unity should be one of the MAIN GOALS of all Christians.

to the OP: civil disobedience is necessary when the government restricts evangelism, discipleship, and fellowship. However, violence to gain those is not a Christ-like idea.