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Two distinct groups...
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
The 144,000 are from twelve tribes of Israel, the innumerable multitude come from "of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues".
The 144,000 is a discrete number, the innumerable multitude is just that, innumerable. I used to think this meant a number so large it could not be counted, but then that doesn't make sense. We can count the over 7 billion on earth today. A very wise person (I think it was Mr. Richard Thompson) then opened my eyes with this nugget...
The reason this is an innumerable multitude is because it is not a fixed number. It will be whomever responds to God's call at the time and it may not be known yet.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
The 144,000 are from twelve tribes of Israel, the innumerable multitude come from "of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues".
The 144,000 is a discrete number, the innumerable multitude is just that, innumerable. I used to think this meant a number so large it could not be counted, but then that doesn't make sense. We can count the over 7 billion on earth today. A very wise person (I think it was Mr. Richard Thompson) then opened my eyes with this nugget...
The reason this is an innumerable multitude is because it is not a fixed number. It will be whomever responds to God's call at the time and it may not be known yet.
T
If you would read all of chapter 7 it gives you the answer in Vs 13-17
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Pre-trib doctrine state the multitude is the raptured church, for the doctrine states the rapture takes the church out of the tribulation....
-BUT-
How could the multitude in Rev 7, be the raptured church, when Vs 14 says:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
The pretrib doctrine defends this by saying these are the tribulation saints, but that does not line up with Rev 20.4 which says:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Stop reading Bible studies and get into the word, it tells you very plainly who this multitude is.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Pre-trib doctrine state the multitude is the raptured church, for the doctrine states the rapture takes the church out of the tribulation....
-BUT-
How could the multitude in Rev 7, be the raptured church, when Vs 14 says:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
The pretrib doctrine defends this by saying these are the tribulation saints, but that does not line up with Rev 20.4 which says:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Stop reading Bible studies and get into the word, it tells you very plainly who this multitude is.
Yes… It’s equally as sad that so many gentiles have rejected Christ over the past 2k years. I am also grateful as you are that we are counted among the remnant. It’s wonderful to receive the same blessings promised to those forefathers who are now our forefathers as well. It fulfills God’s promise to Abraham perfectly.
The flesh is just dust… we all are composed of the same dust. God takes a tiny fragment of dust and makes it into a great eternal Kingdom. Abram was a Chaldean… God took a Chaldean from a family of idolaters and miraculously transformed him into a father of many heirs of the Kingdom of God because he obeyed the voice of God through faith. But if Abraham would of disobeyed the voice of God through lack of faith he would have become like all the other dust and would have reverted back to being Abram an idolatrous Chaldean.
The same is true for the children of Abraham according to their bloodline (dust). What applies to the father equally apples to the children of the father: If they disobey the voice of God through lack of faith they too become like all other dust and revert back to becoming the descendents of the idolatrous Chaldeans. And the dusts that are not of Abraham according to bloodline can now be miraculously transformed into the seed of Abraham by obeying the voice of Christ through faith just like Abram was miraculously transformed from a Chaldean into a father of many heirs of the Kingdom of God by obeying the voice of God through faith.
This proves that since the very beginning God has never shown any partiality according to dust. It is man who shows partiality according to dust and teaches such to create divisions among us. I’ve never heard God in the bible refer to any man or “the stranger who dwells among [them]” by the color of his skin… not even towards His enemies. In fact there was so much intermarrying with other nations among the children of Israel, starting at the beginning with the Shechemites after Simeon and Levi wiped out all the males and integrated with an entire village, that many would be surprised to see the variety in the appearance of the original 12 tribes of Israel. And seeing how God’s creation is so full of variety it would not surprise me. The great multitude in appearance may look no different according to dust than the original 12 tribes that came out of Egypt.
The flesh is just dust… we all are composed of the same dust. God takes a tiny fragment of dust and makes it into a great eternal Kingdom. Abram was a Chaldean… God took a Chaldean from a family of idolaters and miraculously transformed him into a father of many heirs of the Kingdom of God because he obeyed the voice of God through faith. But if Abraham would of disobeyed the voice of God through lack of faith he would have become like all the other dust and would have reverted back to being Abram an idolatrous Chaldean.
The same is true for the children of Abraham according to their bloodline (dust). What applies to the father equally apples to the children of the father: If they disobey the voice of God through lack of faith they too become like all other dust and revert back to becoming the descendents of the idolatrous Chaldeans. And the dusts that are not of Abraham according to bloodline can now be miraculously transformed into the seed of Abraham by obeying the voice of Christ through faith just like Abram was miraculously transformed from a Chaldean into a father of many heirs of the Kingdom of God by obeying the voice of God through faith.
This proves that since the very beginning God has never shown any partiality according to dust. It is man who shows partiality according to dust and teaches such to create divisions among us. I’ve never heard God in the bible refer to any man or “the stranger who dwells among [them]” by the color of his skin… not even towards His enemies. In fact there was so much intermarrying with other nations among the children of Israel, starting at the beginning with the Shechemites after Simeon and Levi wiped out all the males and integrated with an entire village, that many would be surprised to see the variety in the appearance of the original 12 tribes of Israel. And seeing how God’s creation is so full of variety it would not surprise me. The great multitude in appearance may look no different according to dust than the original 12 tribes that came out of Egypt.
If you opened up your eyes and suddenly saw 144,000 people layered out in front of you, enough people to fill two super bowl football stadiums, all wearing exactly the same white apparel, would you, as ONE person, be able to number them? As John said when he saw them “which no ONE could number.” That is a great multitude.
The real problem is … believing this destroys everything that Christians have been brainwashed with for many, many years by those who say they are Jews but are liars… those who control our political systems, religious systems, money systems, entertainment systems, media systems, education systems (science, technology, history), medical systems, …. People are wearing the mark of the beast right now and they don’t even know it. They’re living within the belly of the beast, fueling the beast, while they're waiting for someone to come along and try to force them to get chipped or wear a stamp on their foreheads.
They don’t look closely at those souls in the first ressurection when it says,
"Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.”
When they read this they believe what they/ve been taught. They assume that all those souls that are beheaded are in the future and come out of the tribulation not taking into account that this is the first ressurection which includes the souls that were beheaded for Christ since John the Baptist. Thus John the Baptist too did ‘not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on [his] forehead or on [his hand.]” Meaning the beast system, which is the prevalent ruling world system, was worshipped since the time of Christ.
Let me add this… Is it possible for someone to worship the beast or his image without receiving a literal mark or chip in their head? If one worships the beast by compliance and support, is not that the same as wearing its mark? When God sealed His servants on their foreheads did He come down from heaven and stamp their foreheads or implant them with a chip? So being sealed or marked has nothing really to do with getting stamped on the forehead or chipped and has more to do with where one’s loyalties are. And if you sign a contract with your name on it along with the mark of the beast is that not the same thing as wearing the mark?
The real problem is … believing this destroys everything that Christians have been brainwashed with for many, many years by those who say they are Jews but are liars… those who control our political systems, religious systems, money systems, entertainment systems, media systems, education systems (science, technology, history), medical systems, …. People are wearing the mark of the beast right now and they don’t even know it. They’re living within the belly of the beast, fueling the beast, while they're waiting for someone to come along and try to force them to get chipped or wear a stamp on their foreheads.
They don’t look closely at those souls in the first ressurection when it says,
"Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.”
When they read this they believe what they/ve been taught. They assume that all those souls that are beheaded are in the future and come out of the tribulation not taking into account that this is the first ressurection which includes the souls that were beheaded for Christ since John the Baptist. Thus John the Baptist too did ‘not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on [his] forehead or on [his hand.]” Meaning the beast system, which is the prevalent ruling world system, was worshipped since the time of Christ.
Let me add this… Is it possible for someone to worship the beast or his image without receiving a literal mark or chip in their head? If one worships the beast by compliance and support, is not that the same as wearing its mark? When God sealed His servants on their foreheads did He come down from heaven and stamp their foreheads or implant them with a chip? So being sealed or marked has nothing really to do with getting stamped on the forehead or chipped and has more to do with where one’s loyalties are. And if you sign a contract with your name on it along with the mark of the beast is that not the same thing as wearing the mark?
L
so only 144,000 people are going to get saved...
?! are you going JW on us?!
The 144,000 are Israelites, Blood Bought during the Tribulation. They are not all Jews. They are from each of the tribes. God will reveal the genealogies in His own timing. There are no Gentiles in the 144k.
The great multitude is from every nation. There are both Israelites and Gentiles in this group.
?! are you going JW on us?!
The 144,000 are Israelites, Blood Bought during the Tribulation. They are not all Jews. They are from each of the tribes. God will reveal the genealogies in His own timing. There are no Gentiles in the 144k.
The great multitude is from every nation. There are both Israelites and Gentiles in this group.
In those times, when a covenant is done; both party pierce their palms to show others that they were under a covenant. The wound is kept from healing until the covenant is fulfill. And palm was use as an healing ointment, and the multitude had palm in their hands which means that they are the ones that had fulfilled the New Covenant.
E
Amen.
Which shows how people misunderstand dispensation teaching. The word dispensation means administer. God administers his word today through the gentiles. In the OT from moses on, He administered his word to the world through Isreal. During this time of the 144000 and the 2 witnesses )all from Israel) God has returned the administration of his word back to Israel.
Only this time they will get it right. They will not keep it to themselves. they will go to the world. And many people from all nations will be saved because of them. They will grow the church in this time period
Which shows how people misunderstand dispensation teaching. The word dispensation means administer. God administers his word today through the gentiles. In the OT from moses on, He administered his word to the world through Isreal. During this time of the 144000 and the 2 witnesses )all from Israel) God has returned the administration of his word back to Israel.
Only this time they will get it right. They will not keep it to themselves. they will go to the world. And many people from all nations will be saved because of them. They will grow the church in this time period
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]"STRIKING HANDS"
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]Is this custom of cutting and co-mingling of blood in one's hand or wrist present in the OT?
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]The exact custom is not present (however see next column re slave's ear pierced with an awl) but what is present are several examples of a symbolic clasping or giving of the hands that in the context indicate a solemn agreement has been reached between the parties clasping hands.Covenant: The Oneness of Covenant
Red Palm Oil - Ancient Healing Power[/FONT]
The Gaurdian | For generations, red palm oil has been revered as both a nutritious food and a valuable medicine. Even now, scientists are beginning to recognise the value of the prized plant in the treatment and prevention of several diseases. Ben Ukwuoma writes on the latest scientific work presented at the International Biomedical Science Congress held in Birminghan United Kingdom by a Nigerian scientist, based in Cape Town South Africa on the nutritional and healing properties inherent in the plant.
It was prized by the Pharaohs of ancient Egypt as a sacred food. The oil was so highly valued that it was entombed with the Pharaohs so that they would have access to it in the afterlife.
Red Palm Oil - Ancient Healing Power
Stigmata (singular stigma) is a term used by members of the Christian faith to describe body marks, sores, or sensations of pain in locations corresponding to the crucifixion wounds of Jesus Christ, such as the hands, wrists, and feet.
The term originates from the line at the end of Saint Paul's Letter to the Galatians where he says, "I bear on my body the marks of Jesus." Stigmatais the plural of the Greek word στίγμα stigma, meaning a mark, tattoo,[SUP][1][/SUP] or brand such as might have been used for identification of an animal orslave. An individual bearing stigmata is referred to as a stigmatic or a stigmatist.
Stigmata are primarily associated with the Roman Catholic faith. Many reported stigmatics are members of Catholic religious orders.[SUP][2][/SUP] St. Francis of Assisi was the first recorded stigmatic in Christian history. For over fifty years, Padre Pio of Pietrelcina of the Order of Friars Minor Capuchinreported stigmata which were studied by several 20th-century physicians.
A high percentage (perhaps over 80%) of all stigmatics are women.[SUP][3][/SUP] In his Stigmata: A Medieval Phenomenon in a Modern Age, Edward Harrison suggests that there is no single mechanism whereby the marks of stigmata were produced.
Stigmata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia