What does it mean to die to the world and law?

[gotime]

i'm sorry i choose not to acknowledge this because you choose to not acknowledge the scriptures, if the bible said that those who accepted christ are dead to the law, what more is there to say and you wanna say i'm misunderstanding scripture
Galatians 2:19

King James Version (KJV)

19For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


Romans 8:2

King James Version (KJV)

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.



Romans 7:4

King James Version (KJV)

4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.



if you don't like this take it up with GOD himself not me, and who dare would want to question the creator? and how can you tell me IM misunderstanding the SCRIPTURE when it CLEARLY SAID THOSE WHO RECEIVED CHRIST HAS DIED TO THE LAW OF SIN, that just shows alot if you don't feel the same way HAVE YOU DIED TO THE WORLD? you should really ask yourself that question, if you died to the world why did you say we need to keep the sabbath to be saved? and to any of you that did receive christ and still putting your faith in the law instead of christ you have fallen from grace

Galatians 5:4

King James Version (KJV)

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are
fallen from grace.



don't get angry at me FOR SHARING WHAT THE BIBLE SAID take it up with God and who are you to QUESTION the ALMIGHTY? who are any of us to do that?

RedTent is simply saying that COntext has to be taken into account. That is not unreasonable. lets look at the texts you have used.

Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Its all good to quote this text but what does Paul mean? how is one dead to the law? and why and how is it through the law?

The answer to these questions will give true meaning to the text.

Just look at the verses before this one.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Paul makes it clear that we are not justified by works of the law but by faith in Jesus. but then notice what he says next.

Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Transgress what? the topic is Christ and law. clearly Paul speaks of transgressing/breaking the law. but Christ is not the minister of sin/transgressing/breaking the law.

Thus Paul is saying that faith in Christ does not let us break the law, nor does it allow for breaking the law. If you continue to do so you are a transgressor. As Paul says in another place:

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

and again concerning justification and the law.

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

and Paul verifies that breaking the law is sin here:

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So we know that death to the law is not saying that the law can be broken after Faith in Jesus comes. so what is death to the law in Paul's eyes?

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

You quoted this scripture but notice the point, it is us that dies not the law. we become dead to the law. not the law becomes dead to us. big difference. The law is not the problem. We are.

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The law pointed out my sin by pointing out what is good and once we see it we realize that because we break it we are not doing what is good but what is bad. thus we are the problem. Thus we must die, for God does not get rid of a good thing.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.




Now Romans 8:2

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Many assume that the Law of sin is the 10 commandments. however this is easily shown as error. Note this verse.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

notice that the law of God and the law of sin are two different things. one is good one is bad. The good one is clearly the one Paul said is holy and just and good which he quoted the 10 commandments in verse 7. so we contextually know that the law of God is the 10 commandments in this context.

Thus the law of sin can not be referring to the 10 commandments. but we also learned in chapter 7 verse 7 that sin is breaking the law of God. thus the law of sin is exactly that, the opposite of the Law of God.

Gods law do not kill, law of sin= kill etc etc.

The law of sin is breaking the law. Sins law is breaking Gods law which leads to death but Gods law was ordained for life:

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

but found to be death as explained by Paul in later verses because we broke it.

lets go back to chapter 8.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

notice the law could not save, but Jesus can and condemned sin in the flesh but are we of the flesh any more?

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

we should be of the spirit and what happens if we are of the spirit?

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us. Law breakers by the grace of Jesus through faith become changed into law keepers. that is true freedom in Christ. no longer a slave to the law of sin/law breaking, we are freed to obey the law of God through Christ in us.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

notice that the carnal mind is an enemy of God why?
Because it is not subject to the law of God.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God
Thus they can not please God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

but but but, we are not in the flesh thus we are subject to the law of God. and His Spirit fulfills the law in us. this is the new covenant.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

hope this helps.

 

[Josh321]

You did indeed say that, maybe you meant something else but I can only go by what is written. here are your words.

"you see.. when we die to sin we die to the law also, because sin comes from the law, the law no longer has control over us because sin no longer has control over us, makes sense?"

"doesn't it make sense though? if we die to sin we also die to the law because the law made sin, sin but now through christ Jesus sin no longer has control over us"

oh i did say that... please forgive me then im terribly sorry, honestly i just want this issue to be solved among us, so we can go forward together isn't that what everyone else wants?

 

[Josh321]

Why would you actually say this of me, when every post that I have replied to you is Josh, what you say is true but there are many scriptures you are not acknowledging? You must acknowledge all scripture, so you understand the ones you are quoting. You constantly say you read scripture as saying that if scripture mentions law, you must not read that scripture. I feel that is wrong. ALL scripture is breathed by God. EACH must fit into the whole picture of God. You can't pick out one set of scripture, as you are doing with ones that mention law, and understand. The scriptures you will read and will acknowledge are necessary, they are important, they are of God. But if you decide to exclude a whole teaching, your mind can't understand them properly.

forgive me for saying that please... frustration just got to me i'm sorry shouldn't have said that. i just want this matter to be done among us so everyone can move up and focus on christ and loving each other [h=3]Philippians 2:12-15[/h]King James Version (KJV)

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

 

[Karraster]

oh i did say that... please forgive me then im terribly sorry, honestly i just want this issue to be solved among us, so we can go forward together isn't that what everyone else wants?

Go forward together? Friend, the reality is we are not all headed to the same place. That is a real big deal.

 

[Josh321]

Go forward together? Friend, the reality is we are not all headed to the same place. That is a real big deal.

you are correct but it wouldnt hurt to make an effort would it?

 

[Hizikyah]

Im trying to understand, and have not got an answer for this, to those who believe with the OP, how can we be dead to something that is supposed to be written on our hearts?

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

8451. torah
torah: direction, instruction, law
Original Word: תּוֹרָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: torah
Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw')
Short Definition: law

 

[Karraster]

you are correct but it wouldnt hurt to make an effort would it?

Only God has power to save. We can and should spread the gospel and offer our interpretation, but the spirit is the true interpreter. Even the disciples were told not to argue, rather move on when their words were not accepted. Not everyone will hear the voice of God, because they rather would accept a false teaching and that is the broader path.

 

[gotime]

oh i did say that... please forgive me then im terribly sorry, honestly i just want this issue to be solved among us, so we can go forward together isn't that what everyone else wants?

Its all good mate, I have often written things down and then realized that it did not communicate what I was trying to say.

 

[KJV1611]

Thus Paul is saying that faith in Christ does not let us break the law, nor does it allow for breaking the law. If you continue to do so you are a transgressor.

That is total complete balderdash lol.
Josh321 is absolutely correct in saying we are dead to the law.

Gotime you are saying exactly the opposite of what Paul is saying in Galatians.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Verse 16 - Man is not justified by the works of the law, we are justified by faith.
Verse 17 - While we seek to be justified by Christ (before we came to Christ), if we are found to be sinners (which we are). Is Christ the minister of sin because he saved us when we were yet sinners... God forbid, no.
Verse 18 - If I build the things (my works), which I destroyed (through Christ)... I make myself a transgressor.
Verse 19 - For I, because of the law am dead to the law.

The whole point of Galatians 2 16-19 is - if we go back and try to follow the law after being saved by grace through faith in Christ, THEN we make ourselves a transgressor. We in Christ, are dead to the law... it has no bearing on us. If we try to go back to law keeping then we are transgressors.

 

[Josh321]

Im trying to understand, and have not got an answer for this, to those who believe with the OP, how can we be dead to something that is supposed to be written on our hearts?

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

8451. torah
torah: direction, instruction, law
Original Word: תּוֹרָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: torah
Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw')
Short Definition: law

think about it though hizikyah before you anwser, the bible said Jesus fulfil the law correct? the word fulfil means complete and if that same spirit of Jesus is in you also wouldn't the law be fulfilled in you also? and think about this when we sin we go against the law correct? well if we are free from sin would the law still have power over us? think about it that way and look at what the bible said about those who receive christ are dead to the law think about it before you anwser

 

[Josh321]

honestly i can only say.. what i experience and from the scripture it makes sense because i understand what it means... when i accepted christ into my life i died to sin and the world literally, the old things i like i just couldnt do it anymore it just wasn't in my nature, i couldnt just look at a woman and lust or steal or lie because i was dead to sin, it no longer had any control over me

 

[KJV1611]

Im trying to understand, and have not got an answer for this, to those who believe with the OP, how can we be dead to something that is supposed to be written on our hearts?

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

8451. torah
torah: direction, instruction, law
Original Word: תּוֹרָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: torah
Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw')
Short Definition: law

The law was never about obeying rules. The law was to show us that we are sinners and need Jesus.
The law written in our hearts is to love God and to love one another... It is not 10 rules that we must obey, nor is it keeping of feast days or holy days sabaaths.

Hizikyah you break the law, I break the law... everybody breaks the law. It is insane to even think that we can do otherwise.
Don't you know that there is no such thing as partially keeping the law. It's all or none, if you break one you're just as guilty as if you had broken them all.

Keeping his commandments means to hold them, to cherish them, to delight in them... not obey them.
Mankind is not capable of obeying them. That is exactly what Paul talks about in Romans.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Hizikyah]

think about it though hizikyah before you anwser, the bible said Jesus fulfil the law correct? the word fulfil means complete and if that same spirit of Jesus is in you also wouldn't the law be fulfilled in you also? and think about this when we sin we go against the law correct? well if we are free from sin would the law still have power over us? think about it that way and look at what the bible said about those who receive christ are dead to the law think about it before you anwser

OK, im not saying you are 100% wrong on every idea here, so I will work with you here, because I am trying to understand you view, instead of refuting I will ask a few questions that comes to mind:

1. Why does Yahshua tell us follow the Law, those who wont subject themselves to it He will cast aside, those who do follow it will have the right to the tree of life, and among other things that the Law will never be done away?

2. If we are free from sin in the manner you say then even if I sinned it would not be accounted to me for the rest of my life in the flesh?

3. You really did not answer my question, you just asked me a few.

4. If you want my answers I will give, I think you know that, but I thought it beneficial to listen more instead of refute.

 

[Josh321]

OK, im not saying you are 100% wrong on every idea here, so I will work with you here, because I am trying to understand you view, instead of refuting I will ask a few questions that comes to mind:

1. Why does Yahshua tell us follow the Law, those who wont subject themselves to it He will cast aside, those who do follow it will have the right to the tree of life, and among other things that the Law will never be done away?

2. If we are free from sin in the manner you say then even if I sinned it would not be accounted to me for the rest of my life in the flesh?

3. You really did not answer my question, you just asked me a few.

4. If you want my answers I will give, I think you know that, but I thought it beneficial to listen more instead of refute.

First of all thank you for doing this in order to anwser your question i will have to ask a question myself then we can move up together to figure this out, reading what you just said, all the truth but why then would the bible tell us that we are dead to the law those that accept christ, and why would the bible say that those who try to justify themselves with the law have fallen from grace who have received christ, ok so the foundations are laid but our talk is cheap you put up the scriptures and il put the scriptures then we move on from there to find the anwser agreed?

[h=3]Romans 8:2[/h]King James Version (KJV)

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


[h=3]Romans 6:14-15[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

14 Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.
15 Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not!



[h=3]Galatians 5:4[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)

4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.


ok the foundation is laid, place the scriptures about the topic you have and we well read both of our views to find an anwser and move on together ok?

 

[gotime]

Im trying to understand, and have not got an answer for this, to those who believe with the OP, how can we be dead to something that is supposed to be written on our hearts?

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

8451. torah
torah: direction, instruction, law
Original Word: תּוֹרָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: torah
Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw')
Short Definition: law

I look at it this way:

The Law demands death to those who break it. Jesus died in our place and asks us to die to self which breaks the law.

Remember the law demands death physical death, for the wages of sin is death. but through Christ who died in my place I can now through Faith in Him die to self and am now dead to the law. thus the law demands no more of me because to the law I am dead in Christ.

I also no longer need the writing on stone because that very writing is through faith in Christ on my heart.

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.


And if it is on my heart then my actions and words will reveal this fact in obedience to the commandments in love for God and man. The old man of sin is dead to the law but the new man is in line with the law.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


Ill try again just in case that is not clear.

when I was a slave to sin the law demanded death because of my transgression. but when Faith in Christ came I died to the man of sin and in the spirit I came alive in Christ. thus the slave to sin is dead to the law. but the living to Christ is not condemned by the law because the law is on the new creatures heart. Thus free.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.



notice that we are not justified by the law but by faith. but notice what he says next.

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

The law is not of faith/speaking of works of the law. "but" Paul says "but" in other words Paul is saying don't misunderstand me for saying that keeping the law doesn't matter. because the man that does them will live by them.

In other words faith has something to do with actually obeying the law. Paul is clear that he does not think faith means we can break the law, but rather somehow Faith enables us to live in them. not by works but by Faith.




Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

One can not say they are free in Christ and dead to the law if they are disobeying it or part of it. but rather they show that the law is not on their hearts by Faith in Christ.

The Problem was never keeping the law for Paul except for those laws which were shadows. The problem was how. Some were trying to earn their salvation by keeping the law which is impossible to do. But Paul is saying that true keeping the law can only be done by a heart transplant done by God.

Its a bit like having a bad heart that causes things like fatigue and bad vision and pain in the chest etc.

Works based Christians will try to fix the fatigue and vision and pain.

Faith based Christians don't because they know that these things are just symptoms of a bad heart, and they know that only one can give them a new heart and that one is Christ.

But make no mistake, If we have a new heart from Christ then the fatigue, vision problems and pain will go away. because the problem has been taken care of.

The fatigue and such represents the sins we commit. The bad heart is the one that has not the law of God on it.

 

[Josh321]

we know the bible has no contraditions either hizikyah so this must mean something and it does the bible must add up to explain what this means, why would it say keep law one place and why would it say we are dead to the law in christ? lets find out but place your points first

 

[gotime]

The law was never about obeying rules. The law was to show us that we are sinners and need Jesus.
The law written in our hearts is to love God and to love one another... It is not 10 rules that we must obey, nor is it keeping of feast days or holy days sabaaths.

Hizikyah you break the law, I break the law... everybody breaks the law. It is insane to even think that we can do otherwise.
Don't you know that there is no such thing as partially keeping the law. It's all or none, if you break one you're just as guilty as if you had broken them all.

Keeping his commandments means to hold them, to cherish them, to delight in them... not obey them.
Mankind is not capable of obeying them. That is exactly what Paul talks about in Romans.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Actually Paul is illustrating a slave to sin in Romans 7, is that what you think we should be?

I thought we were free in Christ.

 

[Hizikyah]

First of all thank you for doing this in order to anwser your question i will have to ask a question myself then we can move up together to figure this out, reading what you just said, all the truth but why then would the bible tell us that we are dead to the law those that accept christ, and why would the bible say that those who try to justify themselves with the law have fallen from grace who have received christ, ok so the foundations are laid but our talk is cheap you put up the scriptures and il put the scriptures then we move on from there to find the anwser agreed?

Romans 8:2

King James Version (KJV)

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Ok, so this has already been spoken by me to you, the law of sin and death is not Yahweh's Law, it is the ways of the world.

Scriptual proof:

Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."

Romans 7:14, "For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin."

Also a couple verses later Shaul says this:

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; bitterly opposed to, Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Those of the flesh cant even subject themselves to Yahweh's Law, this is not even arguable, after all the same man 1 chapter earlier said the Law IS SPIRITUAL, think about it.

Again if one has the Messiah they have Yahweh's Law in their heart and THEY CAN subject themselves to it...

Romans 6:14-15

New Living Translation (NLT)

14 Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.
15 Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not!

This translation does not match the Greek whatsoever, please look at the Greek.

But lets play like it does:

Romans 2:15, "Since they show that the requirements of the Law are written in their hearts, their conscience also bears witness, and their thoughts now accuse or else try to defend them."

WRITTEN IN THE HEART....

how can something be written in your heart if you want noting to do with it and wont even subject yourself to it.

1 Yahchanan (John) 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Galatians 5:4

New Living Translation (NLT)

4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.


ok the foundation is laid, place the scriptures about the topic you have and we well read both of our views to find an answer and move on together ok?

Certainly if one is trying to be justified by works alone they will not make it because none have perfect works, but the same is true for the other side of the coin also.

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

I have to respectfully say, again you did not answer my question about Yeremyah 31:33, how can the Law of Yahweh be in your heart if you are dead to it? Also you did not answer any of my questions from the post after that one, I am trying to work with you here but this must go both ways, I addressd you verses, will you please address mine?

 

[Hizikyah]

The law was never about obeying rules. The law was to show us that we are sinners and need Jesus.
The law written in our hearts is to love God and to love one another... It is not 10 rules that we must obey, nor is it keeping of feast days or holy days sabaaths.

Hizikyah you break the law, I break the law... everybody breaks the law. It is insane to even think that we can do otherwise.
Don't you know that there is no such thing as partially keeping the law. It's all or none, if you break one you're just as guilty as if you had broken them all.

Keeping his commandments means to hold them, to cherish them, to delight in them... not obey them.
Mankind is not capable of obeying them. That is exactly what Paul talks about in Romans.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I never said I dont sin.

No the whole point of the Law is not JUST to show us we are sinful, it is also to show us how to Love Yahweh, Love our fellow humans and how to live.

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."

You said "Keeping his commandments means to hold them, to cherish them, to delight in them... not obey them. Mankind is not capable of obeying them. That is exactly what Paul talks about in Romans."

So obedience doesnt matter?

What about this final message to man?

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

and you talked about Shaul in Romans, but in the next chapter he say:

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; bitterly opposed to, Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

and this:

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law

When the Law of Yahweh is IN ones heart, and they cherriesh them, that person KEEPS those Laws of their Father.

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

 

[gotime]

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Is that what you are? a slave to sin?

Paul made it clear that this person is not saved but needs deliverance.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Body of death not saved in Christ. then the next verse gives the answer to the problem this person has.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

But do you honestly think that one who is free in Christ is still slave to the law of sin?

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Paul makes it clear two verses later that the life of Jesus makes us free from the law of sin. because we are no longer in the flesh.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If you are still in the flesh then you are still a slave to Sin and still need deliverance.