What does it mean to die to the world and law?

gotime · Dec 22, 2013

Notice there is no condemnation to who?

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Thus there is condemnation to those who still walk according to the flesh which is those who match the description given by Paul in chapter 7.

Hizikyah · Dec 22, 2013

gotime said:

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 Yahchanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk exactly as He walked."

RedTent · Dec 22, 2013

Josh321 said:

If we did not love each other, we wouldn't try so hard to help each see scripture clearly, each in our own way!

It says keep the law in one place, and not under the law in another because both are true.

When we are under the law, we would not have grace. We would not have Christ. If we were under the law we would go to God to tell him we are obeying the law, so give me salvation! We go to God and say cleanse me, for I have sinned, lead me from temptation but deliver me from evil. It is only by grace, and not being under law we have salvation.

At the same time, we read the law. We watch our walk with Christ. We obey as much as we can.

gotime · Dec 22, 2013

I don't get why people are so against believing that the law can be kept in Christ.

The only thing I can think of is that they base their belief on their experience. but we can not do that. our experience needs to be based on the word.

I know I can't keep the law in my own strength but:

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Before Christ I gave into temptation because I was weak but now:

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Before Jesus I would fall into sin all of the time but:

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

I used to think that even with Christ you will fall but:

2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: (read texts before for list of the things Peter here mentions.)

I used to think that my inner man/mind would always be a slave to sin:

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

But:

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

I used to think that it was impossible to keep the commandments but:

Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

I found out that God would give me strength to do what I could not without Him.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

I realized that the real reason I could never keep the commandments, the real reason it was impossible for me, the real reason I was weak, the real reason my experience said it can't be done, was because I did not have the Faith in God that I needed. Once that changed by the word of God, my experience changed also over time. The things I could not do before I now Can.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

Hizikyah · Dec 22, 2013

of course the Law can only be kept or even applied properly is through Yahweh and Yahshua, however most turn "kept through Christ" into I actually dont do anything it says transgress all of it because Jesus does it for me.

which is properly called grace perversion.

homwardbound · Dec 23, 2013

Hizikyah said:

What I see written on my new heart that God gave me through Son Christ is
[h=3]Hebrews 7:11-12[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? [SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The two Laws of Love to all, no matter what another believes or not believes.

Hizikyah · Dec 23, 2013

homwardbound said:

Yes the LEVITICAL priesthood is no longer, NOW, Yahshua the Messiah is the Mediator of the Covenant.

That dosnt do away with do not steal or do not kill etc.

He made it very clear that all the Law depends on there 2, these arent the ONLY Commandments but the greatest, that is why He said, "This is the first and greatest commandment" and if you lok at the prior verse, the question is WHAT IS THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT, not the only.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your hneighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

As if that was not sufficient Shaul clearly holds this same view:

Romans 13:9-10, "For this, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law"

Also the post of mine you quoted said EXACTLY what would be written on the hearts of those of Yahshua, THE TORAH.

but most have a new god that has freed them from Instructions, just as Adam and Eve were freed from Yahweh's Instruction in the garden.

homwardbound · Dec 23, 2013

RedTent said:

Would this be the perfect law of liberty?
James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

And under Law under:
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Are these what all are talking about which Law are we under, the curse as in our self trying to do what we of the flesh can't do? As shown to us so well by Christ before the cross took place?
Or in trust for God to teach us and lead us in the perfect Law of Liberty, where it is no longer self doing it, it is God doing it through us? Thanks to that fact that Christ lives, was shown to us by the resurrected Christ.
Just something to think and be thankful about at least for me, if not anyone else

homwardbound · Dec 23, 2013

Hizikyah said:

If God does do it for me, then can I relax and is God a liar and not do it for me?
I know by the reaction that has taken place and the rest I have received from trusting Father to live not only in me, more importantly through me
For I have come to the end of the energy of my own flesh and given up to God, in realization that no flesh can please God. So God accepted me and made me new in the Spirit where no flesh has any control
And you call this grace perversion, is it ?
I love you deeply and know you are trying to be right with God.
So let me ask you this
What must I do to be saved and stay saved?

KJV1611 · Dec 23, 2013

I just want to know when you guys stopped lying, stopped lusting and stopped coveting.

homwardbound · Dec 23, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Where do we disagree then? For I see we don't disagree now that we are dividing the Law correctly
One way as in flesh we are under the curse of the Law, not the Law itself it is the flesh that is cursed and needs the Spirit of God of the Law of love, and that is only gained by the new life given from God to us those that believe God
James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed

Hizikyah · Dec 23, 2013

homwardbound said:

You twist my words and the Scriptures.

Did Yahweh provide us mercy? YES

Did Yahshua provide us the actions that brought us that mercy? YES

does Yahweh or Yahshua do all the works for you to enter the kingdom and you are judged by how little you do?

No that is satan making people think they sould be docile and complacent and not do Yahweh;s will, this goes back to the garden.

Tell me this, was Shual trying to justify himself here? and why would deception be talked about concerning this matter?
(I dont expect an true answer, I expect a reply that has nothing to do with my question as you usually do or no reply at all, how can I ever take you seriously if this is the usual way I get a response?)

1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

1 Yahchanan 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

homwardbound · Dec 23, 2013

KJV1611 said:

When one comes to the full knowledge of what God has done. And this is only done by God to that one that sees and puts no confidence in flesh as Paul states:
[h=3]Philippians 3:1-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Only God himself can show one this not anyone else, praying it is revealed to you to walk as he walked in Faith
1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

All I can ever do and you or anyone else is die daily to self and world. Think be co-crucified with Christ to the flesh so that you might see the new life in the Spirit where no sin today can occur ever. Seeing how all sin is condemned to:
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

So either we live today by the Spirit of God or we live by flesh. You choose, oh and try to sin in the Spirit of God, please try, it is not possible to sin in the Spirit of God

Hizikyah · Dec 23, 2013

KJV1611 said:

I will not skip replying to "save face" lying and coveting are not ruling over me any longer, thank Yahweh for this!I do occasionally lust, women are beautiful and I am not married, if it is Yahweh;s will He will provide me with wife that loves Him more than I do! if not that is ok.

what many people fail to realize is we dont have to be perfect, but there is consequential difference between subjecting ourselves to Yahweh's Law and not subjecting our selves to Yahweh's Law, those that wont subject themselves will be cast aside:

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

those that do can still have mercy when they mess up:

1 Yahchanan 1:9-10, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Law is not in us."

1 Yahchanan 2:3-5, "Now by this we do know that we know Him: If we keep His Laws. He who says: I know Him, but does
not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him But whoever keeps His Law, in him truly is the love of Yahweh perfected: by this we know that we are in Him."

Yahchanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

KJV1611 · Dec 23, 2013

What does it mean to be in the spirit of God? What exactly is that?

KJV1611 · Dec 23, 2013

Hizikyah said:

I will not skip replying to "save face" lying and coveting are not ruling over me any longer, thank Yahweh for this!I do occasionally lust, women are beautiful and I am not married, if it is Yahweh;s will He will provide me with wife that loves Him more than I do! if not that is ok.

what many people fail to realize is we dont have to be perfect, but there is consequential difference between subjecting ourselves to Yahweh's Law and not subjecting our selves to Yahweh's Law, those that wont subject themselves will be cast aside:

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

those that do can still have mercy when they mess up:

1 Yahchanan 1:9-10, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Law is not in us."

1 Yahchanan 2:3-5, "Now by this we do know that we know Him: If we keep His Laws. He who says: I know Him, but does
not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him But whoever keeps His Law, in him truly is the love of Yahweh perfected: by this we know that we are in Him."

Yahchanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Do you still covet or lie ever?
Also the bible says if you break one law you're guilty of all.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

homwardbound · Dec 23, 2013

Hizikyah said:

That is why I walk no longer by the flesh, for that is where one is deceived at by flesh, that by Christ's death, we are to consider our selves dead as well to the flesh and alive to God in the Spirit of God

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And I think this is what you have been trying to say is this true or not?

homwardbound · Dec 23, 2013

KJV1611 said:

When first born here on earth we are first born of the flesh, and in need of life in the Spirit of God, and God has done this for us to be alive in him through belief in God's loving Mercy through Son, and then we do as he did, not us actually, God through us, that is why the Holy Spirit of God has been sent to us, to lead us, we get out of the way with that old flesh selfishness

As Christ was and is raised form the dead, you are to be too:
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1 Corinthians 15:44 it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Colossians 2:12 buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

So seek after this the Spirit of God, and I am sure God himself will show you this and you will be free in him through Son Christ's finished at the cross for you.
Then you are led to walk as Christ walked.

Hizikyah · Dec 23, 2013

homwardbound said:

It is true the way Scripture says, but what most the world says is walking in the Spirit IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT SCRIPTURES SAYS.

also on your last verse, I will point out a microcosom of my main point, that the requirement for these blessing is always hidden and the OPPISITE manner to recieve them is taught:

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 Yahchanan 2:6, "whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked."

ask a 1000 "believers" if Christ Jesus is in them, I bet virtually all of them say yes, then ask them if they do as He did, I bet you virtually all of them say no.

If #2 is a no (who cares what one claims) then #1 is also NO.

I know that doesnt sit well with the mega church, new age, grace perversion, once saved always saved, free from the Law, I do noting He does it all, etc teaching, BUT MR HB IT IS SCRIPTURAL TRUTH!

Josh321 · Dec 23, 2013

Hizikyah said:

we will discuss this fully when i recover but for this part, i think we have to read before to see what exactly the scriptures is talking about of what is written on our hearts you gave me romans 15 well i'm gonna show you what romans 2:14 says so we can see exactly what is written on their hearts [h=3]Romans 2:14-15[/h]King James Version (KJV)

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

do you see it? they are not showing the works of the law as to follow it but against it, this is how every person is before they meet christ they do the complete opposite of the law by nature, see because we are born in sin, and that sin is upon us we can't help but sin because it's by our nature, read it again to understand, we will finish this fully when i recover by the grace of God until then keep me in your prayers for strength and faith through this time

What does it mean to die to the world and law?

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