To follow Christ has nothing to do with the Mosaic Law unless you are foolish enough to follow law to gain salvation. It was never meant for that. To follow Christ has much to do with our day to day living, and it results in law only in that the Holy Spirit we are given through Christ leads us to the law and explains it. God is not obsolete. What God tells us in not obsolete. Christ and the Father are one, to know one is to know the other. If you deny one, you deny the other. The law of Christ is the law of the Father, explained more thoroughly and with the Holy Ghost added.
The Truth About The Sabbath
- Thread starter Josh321
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No offense but this is sourced from a bold faced popular lie. If that was the decree then the decree was not only in support of the Pharisee sect who were troubling the gentiles but it added even more burdens on the gentiles.
This is what I mean about pulling scripture right out of context and deliberately twisting the scripture to mean the exact opposite of what it says. You have provided all with a perfect example on how it’s done because you know very well that scripture is NOT the decree and you are not showing yourself to be a good example among your fellow Sabbath believers.
The decree out of Jerusalem came in the form of a letter that was delivered by the hands of “leading men among the brethren” to Antioch and the letter stares directly into your face when you open up your bible and turn to the book of Acts in chapter 15.
The Decree:
“Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law'—to whom we gave no such commandment— it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.”
Do you see anywhere in that decree commands to preach Moses every Sabbath? Of course not! Preaching Moses to the gentiles every Sabbath is NOT the gospel of Jesus Christ. Did Jesus Christ command His disciples to go out to all the world and preach Moses to them on every Sabbath? What kind of gospel are you trying to spread?
"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."
I believe that this is all part of a larger financially backed agenda and it’s not an agenda to bring peace and the easy yoke of Christ but to sow discord and division among those who are being called.
This is what I mean about pulling scripture right out of context and deliberately twisting the scripture to mean the exact opposite of what it says. You have provided all with a perfect example on how it’s done because you know very well that scripture is NOT the decree and you are not showing yourself to be a good example among your fellow Sabbath believers.
The decree out of Jerusalem came in the form of a letter that was delivered by the hands of “leading men among the brethren” to Antioch and the letter stares directly into your face when you open up your bible and turn to the book of Acts in chapter 15.
The Decree:
“Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law'—to whom we gave no such commandment— it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.”
Do you see anywhere in that decree commands to preach Moses every Sabbath? Of course not! Preaching Moses to the gentiles every Sabbath is NOT the gospel of Jesus Christ. Did Jesus Christ command His disciples to go out to all the world and preach Moses to them on every Sabbath? What kind of gospel are you trying to spread?
"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."
I believe that this is all part of a larger financially backed agenda and it’s not an agenda to bring peace and the easy yoke of Christ but to sow discord and division among those who are being called.
In the first place, you show yourself not of Christ with the words "bold faced lie". Another way of saying this is "you fool", and Christ compares it to murder.
In the second place scriptures that are showing us Paul getting permission to not teach rituals, but instead preach Christ is not giving instructions about you or I listening to words of scripture about the Sabbath. You are adding to scripture, not listening to the actual scripture. Adding your own ideas to God is deadly.
Third, we are listening to Paul saying that those Jews who were saying that the rituals were the key to Christ were very wrong is not saying we are not to read any scripture except those you, personally, OK.
In the second place scriptures that are showing us Paul getting permission to not teach rituals, but instead preach Christ is not giving instructions about you or I listening to words of scripture about the Sabbath. You are adding to scripture, not listening to the actual scripture. Adding your own ideas to God is deadly.
Third, we are listening to Paul saying that those Jews who were saying that the rituals were the key to Christ were very wrong is not saying we are not to read any scripture except those you, personally, OK.
Is it not you who says that the earth was created in God's image? That God is a sphere? Is this what your pastor teaches you... the one "who has a doctorate in theology"? You see what happens when you try follow the laws from the old contract and try to shove them down the throats of other believers? You start believing in a god shaped like a ball.
No, yet:
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
So, does this solve the problem in one day viewers and others that are not one day viewers, as me every day is alike and am in rest with God forever and can't stop thanking God for this amazing given free gift salvation, done through Son Christ
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
So, does this solve the problem in one day viewers and others that are not one day viewers, as me every day is alike and am in rest with God forever and can't stop thanking God for this amazing given free gift salvation, done through Son Christ
Whether one observes Sunday or the Seventh Day, it is a gift to mankind to rest from the six laborial days, and to enhance our personal relation with God.
I prefer the day in the order it occurred. It seems awkward to me to even think of the Sabbath of the Lord as being akin to the first day of creation. That just does not make sense to me.
If it does to any others in the sight of Yahweh, then according to Paul there is no guilt, no sin. I will stick with the original order.
As for being at rest seven days, well, I still work six of them though retired. No one ever truly retires from "work." Also we have works produced by faith which are seven days a week. There is need of works by faith until the day the Lord comes for us.
I prefer the day in the order it occurred. It seems awkward to me to even think of the Sabbath of the Lord as being akin to the first day of creation. That just does not make sense to me.
If it does to any others in the sight of Yahweh, then according to Paul there is no guilt, no sin. I will stick with the original order.
As for being at rest seven days, well, I still work six of them though retired. No one ever truly retires from "work." Also we have works produced by faith which are seven days a week. There is need of works by faith until the day the Lord comes for us.
I checked on that I said that the earth was created in the image of God and found that I was in error to report that. We are created in God's image, not the earth. I try so hard to stay strictly by scripture, I messed up. I am sorry. But as in psalms and in Job, it tells us that by seeing how God created our earth, we can see that God is God.
By reporting what God says as best I can I resent that it is "trying to shove them down throats". I am assuming that all here on cc are trying to understand all of God, and I present how I see God talking to us. I am "man", all I say must be put to scripture for that is the authority not me. I see many on cc so impressed with one verse of scripture they fail to listen to all of scripture. It makes for misunderstandings. I hope to be a servant of the Lord to help with His message.
I mess up at times. I messed up when I said the earth was created in God's image. You corrected me. But I don't mess up all the time, and if you listen and check, it could be a learning experience. You learned from my messing up, and by checking scripture you found truth. With that attitude toward what I say, you could be led to truth.
By reporting what God says as best I can I resent that it is "trying to shove them down throats". I am assuming that all here on cc are trying to understand all of God, and I present how I see God talking to us. I am "man", all I say must be put to scripture for that is the authority not me. I see many on cc so impressed with one verse of scripture they fail to listen to all of scripture. It makes for misunderstandings. I hope to be a servant of the Lord to help with His message.
I mess up at times. I messed up when I said the earth was created in God's image. You corrected me. But I don't mess up all the time, and if you listen and check, it could be a learning experience. You learned from my messing up, and by checking scripture you found truth. With that attitude toward what I say, you could be led to truth.
I appreciate you admitting your error. You are one of the very few I’ve ever seen admit error to an opponent on a public discussion board and that is good.
I've stated here many times: It is not a sin to keep the seventh day Sabbath or any other observance under the old contract. But when people go around telling believers that it's essential to salvation to keep the Sabbath then it's what I call spiritual terrorism.
I’ve also clearly pointed (and I will keep pointing it out because it cannot be refuted) that it violates the decree that went out of Jerusalem, which settled this dispute once and for all almost 2,000 years ago. But some of the old covenant breakers here will maliciously cut one scripture and paste it right into the decree in an attempt to give it an opposite meaning in support of the Pharisee sect that it was intended to oppose. This is absolute malice and a violation of the commandment of Christ.
It’s also interesting to note that the old covenant breakers are trying to do the same thing to the Jerusalem decree that they are doing to the old national contract. Because they are unable to keep the entire old contract they have usurped God’s authority and changed it to suit their agenda. Now they are attempting to do the same thing with the decree out of Jerusalem… they are trying to usurp Christ’s authority and change it to suit their agenda. It is this type of malicious behavior that clearly exposes their true agenda: to sow discord
If you do not fall under the category of malicious Sabbath keepers twisting scripture to terrorize those who are being called in Christ I have no problem. And those who do not fall under that category should do like Brother_Don and let others know that they do not believe it is essential for salvation to observe the Sabbath. This would go a long way to contributing to peace.
But there will be no peace until Christ returns because the devil will always be among us. The polarity in all these debates is partially staged to sustain balance of opposing forces… one side cannot appear to defeat the other…. Mandatory Sabbath keepers appear to be getting a beating. Staged forces on the opposing side may start crossing the aisle or be more apologetic in order to reestablish the balance of opposing forces to sustain division.
I've stated here many times: It is not a sin to keep the seventh day Sabbath or any other observance under the old contract. But when people go around telling believers that it's essential to salvation to keep the Sabbath then it's what I call spiritual terrorism.
I’ve also clearly pointed (and I will keep pointing it out because it cannot be refuted) that it violates the decree that went out of Jerusalem, which settled this dispute once and for all almost 2,000 years ago. But some of the old covenant breakers here will maliciously cut one scripture and paste it right into the decree in an attempt to give it an opposite meaning in support of the Pharisee sect that it was intended to oppose. This is absolute malice and a violation of the commandment of Christ.
It’s also interesting to note that the old covenant breakers are trying to do the same thing to the Jerusalem decree that they are doing to the old national contract. Because they are unable to keep the entire old contract they have usurped God’s authority and changed it to suit their agenda. Now they are attempting to do the same thing with the decree out of Jerusalem… they are trying to usurp Christ’s authority and change it to suit their agenda. It is this type of malicious behavior that clearly exposes their true agenda: to sow discord
If you do not fall under the category of malicious Sabbath keepers twisting scripture to terrorize those who are being called in Christ I have no problem. And those who do not fall under that category should do like Brother_Don and let others know that they do not believe it is essential for salvation to observe the Sabbath. This would go a long way to contributing to peace.
But there will be no peace until Christ returns because the devil will always be among us. The polarity in all these debates is partially staged to sustain balance of opposing forces… one side cannot appear to defeat the other…. Mandatory Sabbath keepers appear to be getting a beating. Staged forces on the opposing side may start crossing the aisle or be more apologetic in order to reestablish the balance of opposing forces to sustain division.
So maybe then reckon self dead to flesh sin and alive to God right here right now, through Christ we are redeemed
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again
Maybe these verses answer that:
[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; [SUP]2 [/SUP]a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; [SUP]2 [/SUP]a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
That was written at the time when there was a problem concerning eating Kosher food and not eating unclean food, and this chapter goes deeper than just food and is why one man observes one day above another and the other everyday alike, let each be fully convinced in their own mind, days are not about food. It is about being made whole by Son Christ, starting at Christ's death, being our death to self flesh and then being made alive by Father a gift to us in the resurrected Christ, justified in the Spirit of God
We by Christ reckon:
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
We by Christ reckon:
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
That was written at the time when there was a problem concerning eating Kosher food and not eating unclean food, and this chapter goes deeper than just food and is why one man observes one day above another and the other everyday alike, let each be fully convinced in their own mind, days are not about food. It is about being made whole by Son Christ, starting at Christ's death, being our death to self flesh and then being made alive by Father a gift to us in the resurrected Christ, justified in the Spirit of God
We by Christ reckon:
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
We by Christ reckon:
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.