The Jewish 'Mashiac' - a question about the OT

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,267
6,554
113
#21
It is man who has forcibly evolved the Word of Yahweh to fit into his manner, not Our Maker. Of course this more than facilitates the realization of what our Father foretold us all through His prophets and His Only Begotten Son. It is the faith of Abraham, not the faith of converts.

Here in simple terms.

Mashiach is Messiah as close to the actual transliteration directly from the Hebrew.

It is as correct, or even more correct than the transliteration, Messiah.

It is not important as long as the term used by an individual is done with the respect due our Savior.

If we were to change our ways and translate the name of our Savior instead of just using a transliteration, His name would be Salvation Anointed by God (God being the word borrowed from Sanskrit for Yahweh or the Self-existing God.)

It does no one any good to ridicule what another calls the same Savior and Father. It is rude and will produce many tears to be wiped away one day.

I am privileged to use all of the names, Jesus Christ, Yeshua, Yahshua, Yahoshua, Yahweh, Eternal Father, Almighty God, and much more because I believe Him, and I know as long as I am honoring Him, it is good.

Stop bashing others for their language or their accents. This is not of Jesus, or do you say Yeshua? Stop now, and if you would, apologize to your brethren........this goes for those who believe there is only their own way to say Salvation

If your conscience does not tell you that you should accept the brethren and the way they call upon Jesus in spirit and truth, than I am compelled to think your conscience is seared. Both sides, now, in Jesus Christ's name, amen.
Just shaking my head !!
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
765
113
39
Australia
#22
i would suggest finding a copy of "The Social World of Luke Acts" Ed. by Jerome Neyrey,From Hendrickson Publishers. schorlarly but not a difficult read
Thank you sir, ive found that book on eBay and it looks like an interesting read :0)
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
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#24
They don't want the revelation spoken by the Son (Heb 1:1-2) to supersede
the revelation of the OT prophets.

They don't want Christianity to supersede Judaism.

They want the place of pre-eminence in God's people,
and despise that all in Christ are the seed of Abraham.

They despise a grace righteousness, and cling to a works righteousness.

They don't want a change of order (Heb 9:10), from the OT to the NT,

whereby much has been set aside:

the Levitical priesthood has been changed from the order of Aaron to the order of Melchizedek
(Heb 7:11-12);

the High Priest of this new priesthood is also King, as was Melchizedek, and is eternal (Heb 7:17);

changing the priesthood changed the law (Heb 7:12) which was based on the Levitical priesthood
(Heb 7:11);

changing the law made the old covenant obsolete (Heb 8:13), because

the old covenant was based on that law, which is now set aside because it was weak and useless
(Heb 7:18-19),

the law is now fulfilled in Christ's law (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2) of love (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).

They absolutely despise and detest all of the above.
To speak falsely about anyone is a great sin. You are speaking falsely. It is not from an evil spirit that you are speaking, but from misunderstanding. I wonder how our Lord God sees this!
 
C

CRC

Guest
#25
This definition of messiah as an “anointed one” sets Biblical messiahs well apart from the false messiahs. Bible messiahs were not self-appointed; nor were they chosen by a mass of adoring followers. No, their appointment originated from above, from Yahweh God himself.
While the Bible speaks of many messiahs, it does raise one far above the rest. (Psalm 45:7) This Messiah is the central figure in Bible prophecy, the key to the fulfillment of the Bible’s most inspiring promises.


However, Jews do not hold the monopoly on Messianic disbelief. Just look in any direction!! There is plenty of Messianic denial and disbelief to go around!!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,267
6,554
113
#26
Just a note of reminder, to be appointed by the Father is being anointed. Sometimes it is only a matter of syntax, not error.

This definition of messiah as an “anointed one” sets Biblical messiahs well apart from the false messiahs. Bible messiahs were not self-appointed; nor were they chosen by a mass of adoring followers. No, their appointment originated from above, from Yahweh God himself.
While the Bible speaks of many messiahs, it does raise one far above the rest. (Psalm 45:7) This Messiah is the central figure in Bible prophecy, the key to the fulfillment of the Bible’s most inspiring promises.


However, Jews do not hold the monopoly on Messianic disbelief. Just look in any direction!! There is plenty of Messianic denial and disbelief to go around!!
 
Feb 7, 2013
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#27
Peace be with you beloved danalee and may GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST encourage and bless you. It all has been GOD's will and plan and when HE created all things including mankind, HE was well pleased and proclaimed all of them very good.

For example, 'when a good fruit of a good tree becomes blemish or rotten due to worms, birds and etc., what can the tree do when things like this happens to it's fruits but rather hoping patiently that in the next season it may be able to produce more better good fruits. And what about the gardener, what can he do when he planted the right seed and the tree grew and bear fruits right. So the gardener will take preventive steps for the next season hoping for a better harvest, by spraying pesticide and also covering the fruits while they are young and this helps and protect the fruits from harm and waste'.

As it is written for HIS creation now in the image of HIS SON, the body of CHRIST, who HE is initially spirit and when time has come HE then took on flesh and blood and called as the spirit-man, just for us continuous wrong doers time after times in order to have a chance of redemption from the slavery of wrong doing, while we were yet dogs and i wonder why worth risking for? When HE can jolly-well mind His own good and peaceful business that good people come to Heaven and bad people go to hell, as mankind do, good-be among the community and they are a good example and help to us and our family and bad-go to prison for they are a treat and a bad example to us and our family.
i beseech you please wonder, how can this all be possible in the Gospels when it sounds like animated stories for kids, to be drawn to just like that?

This is when the free gift of GOD comes into effects, "By Grace through faith. It is a gift of GOD.' and then we know that this truth story is believed based on that initial faith, the free gift of GOD and furthermore growing from faith to faith.

That is why HE is GOD and HE initially created everything for men and women and created them in HIS image as acting gods on HIS behalf and commanded them to rule over all earthly things and bringing them under their control and also multiply and fill the earth, while HE does the same in Heaven.
GOD had family relationship with Adam and Adam towards Eve, as how an earthly parent would do with their kids. HE even brought pets for Adam as companion and for Adam to name them, as how an earthly parent presents a pet to their children for companion and call them also to give it a name. Then HE out of compassion felt the void and loneliness of Adam and made out of Adam's bone to bone and flesh to flesh another companion who Adam was well pleased with and he named her Eve. It is same like an earthly parent, when Abraham noticed the loneliness of Isaac after Sarah's passing away, he then sent his faithful servant to go and look for a bride for Isaac from among Abraham's kinsmen and also with further instructions for the task. And Abraham through his faithful servant and by the will of GOD's choice a blessed match was brought to Isaac. Immediately upon seeing her and being well pleased, Isaac took Rebecca into his own tent and they became husband and wife.

i hope you can see in a glimpse how GOD can be born of a human flesh created in HIS image to rule the physical realm while HE rules the spiritual realm and be overseer over both. Since the beginning GOD's created and initiated 'Trinity' = GOD - man/woman - offspring family cycle has been broken by the disobedience to lust. The good pride, joy and glory of GOD was not crushed by satan who is just the initiator but was crushed by mankind himself and herself who were made in HIS image but acted in contrary to the image of HIS enemy who was punished in beginning for disobedience to lust.

In the case of the Jewish against their MESSIAH, it is also GOD's will that was revealed prophetically ahead of time of this that must come to pass that the MESSIAH will be rejected and crucified for the remission of the world's sins and also for the Gospel to go to the Gentiles.
We have to be thankful and pray to GOD, 'to save Israel from all of it's troubles', requested by JESUS Himself to His disciples, written in the Gospel in order for us to witness and imitate. First of all the Salvation of GOD through JESUS CHRIST of Nazareth and the HOLY SPIRIT for the whole world, truthfully came because of the Jewish people and for the Jewish people for they are the GOD promised Abraham's descendants and no one can change nor replace nor destroy them ever.

In the case of unbelieve, it is prophetically spoken and written by Isaiah and mentioned by JESUS that;
1."GOD of truth have blocked the eyes and the ears of the people of Israel, for they will see and see but they cannot see, for they will hear and hear but they cannot hear."
2."God of lies and of this world have blinded the minds of unbelievers."

In Israel JESUS of Nazareth prayed to GOD this prayer;
"Thank you FATHER you 'hid' these to the wise and prudent and showed it to ordinary people."

"There are somethings difficult for men (even to understand their own creator) but for GOD all things are possible."


 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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#28
In the case of the Jewish against their MESSIAH, it is also GOD's will that was revealed prophetically ahead of time of this that must come to pass that the MESSIAH will be rejected and crucified for the remission of the world's sins and also for the Gospel to go to the Gentiles.
We have to be thankful and pray to GOD, 'to save Israel from all of it's troubles', requested by JESUS Himself to His disciples, written in the Gospel in order for us to witness and imitate. First of all
the Salvation of GOD through JESUS CHRIST of Nazareth and the HOLY SPIRIT for the whole world, truthfully
came because of the Jewish people
Christ himself came through the Jewish people,
but the whole world did not come to Christ because of his own who did not receive him (Jn 1:11).

The whole world came through the preaching of the apostles and disciples who left Judaism.

and for the Jewish people for they are the GOD promised Abraham's descendants and no one can change nor replace nor destroy them ever.
Only those in Christ are the true God-promised descendants of Abraham,

just as only those in Isaac, and not in Esau, were the God-promised descendants of Abraham.

That is the burden of Ro 9:6-18.

In the case of unbelieve, it is prophetically spoken and written by Isaiah and mentioned by JESUS that;
1."GOD of truth have blocked the eyes and the ears of the people of Israel, for they will see and see but they cannot see, for they will hear and hear but they cannot hear."
That is God's judgment on them for not receiving their own Christ (Jn 1:11).
 
B

Bilvad

Guest
#29
There are hundreds of verses throughout the "Old Testament" that speak of the Messianic Era. There are only a couple of handfuls of verses that refer to The Messiah... the Hebrew word, "The Messiah" doesn't appear once in the original Hebrew... whoever is sitting on the throne of Israel during the Messianic Era will be The Mashiach.

Jews don't look at a single verse taken from here and another verse taken from there... Jews look for a themes that runs throughout the Old Testament over and over again. Jesus was and is rejected by Jews as The Messiah, among many other reasons, because none of those hundreds of prophecies about the Messianic Era came to pass during Jesus' life on this planet... if he indeed does come again and reign during such a Messianic Era, then he would be accepted as The Messiah.

The Hebrew next never mentions that one would need to 'believe' that someone is The Messiah.... I don't 'believe' that Obama is the president of the USA; it is an established fact that he is the president... the same will hold for The Messiah.

Jews were warned by Moses (yes it's in your Bible too) that others would come to test the Jewish people and that they would perform signs and wonders to mislead the Jewish people. Specifically, Jews were warned that 'miracle workers' are suspect of being one of those sent to test the Jewish people.

I respect Christianity. Jews don't try to convert others to their 'beliefs'. I just wanted to shine some light on why it is that Jews do not accept Jesus as The Messiah. Christianity is a very good 'relationship with God' for non-Jews and is praiseworthy. Much, much good has come to the world through Christianity. As such, I hope that my post will not be seen as an attack on Christianity. The poster wanted the Jewish view: I have provided that in a nut shell.

God Bless you all.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#30
There are hundreds of verses throughout the "Old Testament" that speak of the Messianic Era.
There are only a couple of handfuls of verses that refer to The Messiah... the Hebrew word, "The Messiah" doesn't appear once in the original Hebrew... whoever is sitting on the throne of Israel during the Messianic Era will be The Mashiach.s
Which verses are they?

And how many times must the Bible state it before it is true?

"Messiah," the word used by first-century Jews (Jn 1:41),
is simply a transliteration of Mashiach,"
which refers to the Davidic dynasty (2Sa 7:13), which ultimately points to the "Messiah," Jesus the Christ.

Jews don't look at a single verse taken from here and another verse taken from there... Jews look for a themes that runs throughout the Old Testament over and over again.
Jesus was and is rejected by Jews as The Messiah, among many other reasons,
because none of those hundreds of prophecies about the Messianic Era came to pass during Jesus' life on this planet...
Jesus was not rejected by all Jews as the Messiah, nor by all the leadership of his day.
Some believed he was who he said he was.

if he indeed does come again and reign during such a Messianic Era, then he would be accepted as The Messiah.

The Hebrew next never mentions that one would need to 'believe' that someone is The Messiah
.... I don't 'believe' that Obama is the president of the USA; it is an established fact that he is the president... the same will hold for The Messiah.

Jews were warned by Moses (yes it's in your Bible too) that others would come to test the Jewish people and that they would perform signs and wonders to mislead the Jewish people. Specifically, Jews were warned that 'miracle workers' are suspect of being one of those sent to test the Jewish people.

I respect Christianity. Jews don't try to convert others to their 'beliefs'. I just wanted to shine some light on why it is that Jews do not accept Jesus as The Messiah. Christianity is a very good 'relationship with God' for non-Jews and is praiseworthy. Much, much good has come to the world through Christianity. As such, I hope that my post will not be seen as an attack on Christianity. The poster wanted the Jewish view: I have provided that in a nut shell.

God Bless you all.
So, the Jews don't accept Jesus of Nazareth as their "Messiah" (Mashiach) because

1) there are too few verses which use the transliteration "Messiah,"

2) hundreds of prophecies regarding him were not fulfilled, and

3) belief in Messiah as the Messiah is not necessary.

And there is also a fourth reason:

God has blinded them in judgment (Ro 11:25) for rejecting Jesus of Nazareth
as their "Messiah" (Mt 13:14-17), and to this day
the veil that prevented them from seeing the fading glory of Moses' face is still with them (2Co 3:11),
preventing them from seeing the fading glory of the old covenant (Heb 8:13),
which has been transcended and replaced with the greater glory of the new covenant (Heb 8:6-12).
 
Feb 7, 2013
1,276
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#31
Peace be with you dearly beloved Elin and what you have quoted are partially true because they are incomplete due to some zeal error that consist of some bitterness for the unbelieving Jews towards their and our MESSIAH. If i may, please let me encourage you from the sound doctrine side of revelation. As it is written that; 'be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to anger', to all those who claim that they are the GOD-promised descendants of Abraham, their Father of faith through LORD JESUS CHRIST.

CHRIST did come from the Jewish people and labored for the Jewish people for HE proclaims that 'HE came for the lost tribes of Israel' even 'lamenting for Jerusalem'. HE even reject the canaanite women at first about the salvation food that are for the children of Israel (note that HE did not quote individual tribes to be saved but GOD's will that the whole nation Israel to be saved, whether they are good or bad), are not to be fed to dogs but due to her faith her daughter receive healing.

The whole world did not come to CHRIST because HIS own did not receive HIM and this is incomplete truth. JESUS had disciples and follower who were faithful Jews who received HIM and continued until the very end and through Peter who acknowledges the Apostles and the Apostle Paul, CHRIST also build HIS church, including Gentiles (non-Jews/the world) who have come to faith. The truth is, the world who came to the faith and who did not, is not based on Israel's error and it is truthfully considered as blind ignorance and stubbornness to the truth faith, remaining in their sins as slaves and they may further utter so, blaming it all on Israel.
But the Salvation of GOD through CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT, the Gospel of Grace and Truth faith is entirely and truthfully based on and came from initially from the GOD's gift;

'By Grace through faith'.
(but that is not all and complete for believers who come by grace through faith the initial gift of GOD who have only called us in the gate of Heaven but ahead of us there is a narrow road that leads to GOD's Kingdom. That is why in order to further journey on this narrow road which CHRIST proclaims it 'to be very difficult to follow and only a few will make it', believers must according to Apostle Peter who calls on to the church and as it is written in his epistle, 'to add/supplement on to your faith, virtue,..............................................')

Only the ones who are in CHRIST are the true GOD-promised descendants of Abraham. Yes, CHRIST is that promised 'offspring' and including those who have come from HIM.

Please consider these questions, in order to completely justify whether the nation of Israel is fully rejected and forgotten by GOD, to even consider them still the descendants of Abraham today;
1. Is the door of Grace and Truth the Gospel of CHRIST is fully shut for even the hope of the nation of Israel to be still saved?
2. Isn't the Gospel for now still with the Gentiles, in order for the full number of them, as already known and counted by GOD before the foundation of this earth, considered to be still called in?
3. Have the Gospel gone back to Israel as it is said truthfully by GOD it will and to even consider those who have rejected/not receive CHRIST once before and their branches were cut off by GOD Himself that is from HIS nation tree called Israel, (which is the parable spoken of with explanation by Apostle Paul about the cultivated olive tree and it's branches and the wild olive tree and it's branches, to the Roman proud and misunderstanding about the Jews, growing church) and made way for the wild olive tree Gentile branches, who were once before ignored and forgotten and due to the 'unmerited favor' of GOD, HE now cuts them from where they are and have them attached, grafted to the vacant places (-sanctification-)?
4. Didn't Apostle Paul say to the Roman church that; 'you Gentiles don't be proud. if GOD can do this to HIS own, how HE can do to you the same and HE will' and didn't he further mention about in the same parable that some of the grafted Gentile branches will be once again cut off from that tree and some of the 'previously cut off branches' of that tree will be once again be reattached to the same tree, also will and done by GOD Himself?
5. Have 'the two witnesses' as prophesied, come for 'only Israel'?
6. When all the army of this earth gather at the place called 'meghiddo', surrounding Israel and to war against them, who is coming to fight for all of them (or if anyone want to go on saying, only for some of them) and will not then seeing the majestic glory of their MESSIAH who comes still to their aid in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, once and for all turn back to HIM and be forgiven and be saved even in the last day or even hour?
7. As prophesied didn't Israel become a nation once again by the will of GOD from it's scattered non-existences, even though there were further opposition in the United Nation itself, opposing countries mainly Muslims that such a nation should come back into existence again, for they are a threat to world peace, especially also from the very Vatican pope himself?

i remind all of you that in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, with all due respect, we Gentiles do not be proud of our Salvation and do and say whatever we want for all we know that, we have not yet completely got rid of our old dog nature.

As it is written about Gentiles; "You cannot give what is Good and Holy to dogs for it will only turn around and bite you."
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#32
They don't want the revelation spoken by the Son (Heb 1:1-2) to supersede
the revelation of the OT prophets.

They don't want Christianity to supersede Judaism.

They want the place of pre-eminence in God's people,
and despise that all in Christ are the seed of Abraham.

They despise a grace righteousness, and cling to a works righteousness.

They don't want a change of order (Heb 9:10), from the OT to the NT,

whereby much has been set aside:

the Levitical priesthood has been changed from the order of Aaron to the order of Melchizedek
(Heb 7:11-12);

the High Priest of this new priesthood is also King, as was Melchizedek, and is eternal (Heb 7:17);

changing the priesthood changed the law (Heb 7:12) which was based on the Levitical priesthood
(Heb 7:11);

changing the law made the old covenant obsolete (Heb 8:13), because

the old covenant was based on that law, which is now set aside because it was weak and useless
(Heb 7:18-19),

the law is now fulfilled in Christ's law (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2) of love (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).

They absolutely despise and detest all of the above.

They reject a large part of the NT.
To speak falsely about anyone is a great sin. You are speaking falsely. It is not from an evil spirit that you are speaking, but from misunderstanding. I wonder how our Lord God sees this!
I misspoke.

I was not paying attention. . .my description above is of a Messianic Jew, not of a Jew.

It is Messianics who object to and despise a large part of the NT, for the reasons given above.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#33
Peace be with you dearly beloved Elin and what you have quoted are partially true because they are incomplete due to some zeal error that consist of some bitterness for the unbelieving Jews towards their and our MESSIAH.

The truth is, the world who came to the faith and who did not, is not based on Israel's error and it is truthfully considered as blind ignorance and stubbornness to the truth faith, remaining in their sins as slaves and they may further utter so, blaming it all on Israel.
I have never heard of anyone attributing belief or unbelief of Gentiles to Israel.
This is a strawman.

Please consider these questions, in order to completely justify whether the nation of Israel is fully rejected and forgotten by GOD, to even consider them still the descendants of Abraham today;
1. Is the door of Grace and Truth the Gospel of CHRIST is fully shut for even the hope of the nation of Israel to be still saved?
2. Isn't the Gospel for now still with the Gentiles, in order for the full number of them, as already known and counted by GOD before the foundation of this earth, considered to be still called in?
3. Have the Gospel gone back to Israel as it is said truthfully by GOD it will and to even consider those who have rejected/not receive CHRIST once before and their branches were cut off by GOD Himself that is from HIS nation tree called Israel, (which is the parable spoken of with explanation by Apostle Paul about the cultivated olive tree and it's branches and the wild olive tree and it's branches, to the Roman proud and misunderstanding about the Jews, growing church) and made way for the wild olive tree Gentile branches, who were once before ignored and forgotten and due to the 'unmerited favor' of GOD, HE now cuts them from where they are and have them attached, grafted to the vacant places (-sanctification-)?
4. Didn't Apostle Paul say to the Roman church that; 'you Gentiles don't be proud. if GOD can do this to HIS own, how HE can do to you the same and HE will' and didn't he further mention about in the same parable that some of the grafted Gentile branches will be once again cut off from that tree and some of the 'previously cut off branches' of that tree will be once again be reattached to the same tree, also will and done by GOD Himself?
5. Have 'the two witnesses' as prophesied, come for 'only Israel'?
6. When all the army of this earth gather at the place called 'meghiddo', surrounding Israel and to war against them, who is coming to fight for all of them (or if anyone want to go on saying, only for some of them) and will not then seeing the majestic glory of their MESSIAH who comes still to their aid in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, once and for all turn back to HIM and be forgiven and be saved even in the last day or even hour?
7. As prophesied didn't Israel become a nation once again by the will of GOD from it's scattered non-existences, even though there were further opposition in the United Nation itself, opposing countries mainly Muslims that such a nation should come back into existence again, for they are a threat to world peace, especially also from the very Vatican pope himself?
Sufficed it to say that I am not in a position to speak on what God will do for any particular person in the future.

And we understand prophecy very differently.
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#34
I misspoke.

I was not paying attention. . .my description above is of a Messianic Jew, not of a Jew.

It is Messianics who object to and despise a large part of the NT, for the reasons given above.
I strongly believe we should go to the Old Testament to learn more about Christ. That makes me Messianic or part of the roots movement. It is me you are assigning beliefs to that are not true.
1. They don't want the revelation spoken by the Son (Heb 1:1-2) to supersede
the revelation of the OT prophets.

2. They don't want Christianity to supersede Judaism.

3. They want the place of pre-eminence in God's people,
and despise that all in Christ are the seed of Abraham.

4. They despise a grace righteousness, and cling to a works righteousness.

5. They don't want a change of order (Heb 9:10), from the OT to the NT,

whereby much has been set aside:

6. the Levitical priesthood has been changed from the order of Aaron to the order of Melchizedek
(Heb 7:11-12);

the High Priest of this new priesthood is also King, as was Melchizedek, and is eternal (Heb 7:17);

changing the priesthood changed the law (Heb 7:12) which was based on the Levitical priesthood
(Heb 7:11);

7. changing the law made the old covenant obsolete (Heb 8:13), because

the old covenant was based on that law, which is now set aside because it was weak and useless
(Heb 7:18-19),

8. the law is now fulfilled in Christ's law (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2) of love (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).

They absolutely despise and detest all of the above.
1. Nothing in scripture speaks of any of it superseding another, the OT is telling of the 4,000 or so years leading up to Christ.
2. Judaism is not an obsolete religion with Christianity taking it's place. Christ is in the OT as well as the NT.
3. Christians don't "despise". It is telling you would use that word. Scripture says those in Christ as seeds of Abraham.
4. There has never since the day of creation been a time that God said you can fashion your own salvation through your works.
5. Without a thorough study of the OT, exactly what has been completed in Christ, and what Christ takes the place of is not understood completely.
6. Scripture says that Christ is our High Priest, we need to understand Aaron to understand just what that means to us.
7. Again, it takes study to learn just what is obsolete and what is part of eternal God. Also, study needs to be made of all law to know what was changed, and how. To just wade in willy nilly saying all of God was not eternal, we have a new God is not correct.
8. This is true, Christ made everything complete. Many people say Christ wiped much of what God spoke of out, Christ completed nothing. So there has to be a true understanding of "fulfilled".

 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#35
I strongly believe we should go to the Old Testament to learn more about Christ. That makes me Messianic or part of the roots movement. It is me you are assigning beliefs to that are not true.

Are you of Jewish descent, or a natural Jew?
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#37
We are talking about scripture, not my parents.
No, the subject is Messianic Jews.

If you are not a natural Jew or not of Jewish descent, you are not a Messianic Jew,
and my description does not apply to you.

Nor are you in a position to know if my description of a Messianic Jew is correct or not.
 
Jan 6, 2014
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#38
The jewish leaders in the days Jesus walked the earth rejected him because he threatened their power and authority over the people. They also did not consider themselves sinners in need of salvation believing they were in obedience to the Mosaic Law. They also believed the messiah would come and lead the nation of Israel to world dominance over the wicked oppressive gentiles that ruled over them. They did not see the need for messiah to die for their sins believing themselves to be righteous before God. They did not see a simple carpenter from Nazareth to be their Anointed King. All the miracles Jesus performed were viewed as works of the evil one to lead astray the nation, they believed they were serving God in having him put to death.

He is risen !!! Praise be to God.
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#39
No, the subject is Messianic Jews.

If you are not a natural Jew or not of Jewish descent, you are not a Messianic Jew,
and my description does not apply to you.

Nor are you in a position to know if my description of a Messianic Jew is correct or not.
I think better than you. I live in the same town as John Klein and Adam Spears who wrote "Lost in Translation" and have gone to their church twice. John has helped me with my study of the Christian Church in the first 500 years by suggesting book sources for this information. That does not make me an expert by a long shot, but it puts me closer than you are.

I know that both John and Adam would be shocked at your summation of them, it is so far from what they believe in. They study scripture.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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The jewish leaders in the days Jesus walked the earth rejected him because he threatened their power and authority over the people. They also did not consider themselves sinners in need of salvation believing they were in obedience to the Mosaic Law. They also believed the messiah would come and lead the nation of Israel to world dominance over the wicked oppressive gentiles that ruled over them. They did not see the need for messiah to die for their sins believing themselves to be righteous before God. They did not see a simple carpenter from Nazareth to be their Anointed King. All the miracles Jesus performed were viewed as works of the evil one to lead astray the nation, they believed they were serving God in having him put to death.

He is risen !!! Praise be to God.
The study of those times are as interesting as any novel ever written! They studied scripture about the coming Messiah, especially in Daniel and Isaiah and their scholars were sure they knew all about the coming king. It was very like our scholars who are pouring over Daniel and Revelations, now. Some of the scriptures told of the second coming of Christ, the one we are looking forward to, and they had no idea of that. They wanted Jesus to fit into each scripture telling of Him.

If we were taken over by a foreign government we hated and who threatened us every day, we also would look forward to a king that God would send to free us. In fact, I don't think many of us are looking at our sins as the reason that Christ is coming again, just as they weren't thinking of it in relation to forgiveness for sin. I amazes me that so many Jews accepted Christ as it tells us in Acts. History tells us what happened to those Christian Jews, and, especially the 11th chapter of Romans tells us of how God is using that.


These people have been used for our benefit ever since Abraham, I think we should bless them. They seem to have mostly lost their devotion to God, now, besides not recognizing Christ. I think every Christian should join in prayer for them.