Is Jesus God?

[presidente]

Their sin in Exodus was THEY ROSE UP TO PLAY

Now, if you don't know what the word PLAY means then you need some new sermon outlines.

Paul said that THEY ROSE UP TO PLAY and this was connected to Apis (Osiris, Isis, Horus trinity) and he called it DEMON worship.

PLAY is Demon Worship and so all instruments and instruments parse to Enchantment or Sorcery. Miriam and Levites prophesied with instruments which means soothsaying or sorcery.

I think I smell something, something not too pleasant, here. It would seem Bible translators disagree with you. Psalm 147:7 commands making music to God on the harp. Psalm 150 contains numerous similar commands. Your conclusions violate scripture. And that piney website is full of a bunch of bunk about Greek, and a reliance on pagan and unbelieving liberal commentaries to interpret the scripture in a way that is contrary to the belief that the scripture is inspired.

The speakers, singers and instrument players in Revelation 18 are called SORCERERS and John says they will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

Babylon had had harpists, etc. The sound of harps was also heard in heaven. I wouldn't be surprised if those Babylonians drank water, too. You drink water. Does that make you a pagan Babylonian? If some harp players are pagan, and if that means that all harp players are pagan, then if all pagans drink water, and you drink water, wouldn't that make you a pagan? I think there is something wrong with the logic of the argument. Maybe people can drink water without being pagans, even though pagans drink water, and not all harp players are pagan.


I have a question. Why would you post about this pet doctrine of yours about instruments being pagan (in spite of clear scripture to the contrary like Psalm 150), on a thread about the deity of Christ? Aren't there other things you can post about?

 

[KSublett]

Re: Yes...Jesus IS God...

Titus 2.13 Looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Titus 1:1 Paul,
.....a servant of GOD, .....AND
.....an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect,
.....and the acknowledging of the TRUTH which is after godliness;
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Titus 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his WORD through PREACHING,
.....which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace,
.....from God [Theos] the Father
.....AND
.....the LORD [Kurios] Jesus Christ our Saviour.

God has given ALL authority which is exercised with the NAME (singular) Jesus whom GOD HAD MADE both lord and Christ.

 

[VCO]

Their sin in Exodus was THEY ROSE UP TO PLAY

Now, if you don't know what the word PLAY means then you need some new sermon outlines.

Paul said that THEY ROSE UP TO PLAY and this was connected to Apis (Osiris, Isis, Horus trinity) and he called it DEMON worship.

PLAY is Demon Worship and so all instruments and instruments parse to Enchantment or Sorcery. Miriam and Levites prophesied with instruments which means soothsaying or sorcery.

The Law of the Monarchy is NOT the Law of Moses which included no musical noise. They had a covenant with Death.

The speakers, singers and instrument players in Revelation 18 are called SORCERERS and John says they will be cast alive into the lake of fire.I said that David was the protypical oriental tyrant and the singing and dancing with the campfollowing girles induced him to GO NAKED. He was not a worship leader and he did not lead worship. God gave these kings to carry out their captivity and death sentence BECAUSE of PLAY at Mount Sinai.

But, that's another thread. E-mail and I will respond.

Quoting Church of Christ theology, I assume. But their whole concept of "instruments in Church are a sin"; is SERIOUSLY not of GOD.

Psalm 144:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] I will sing a new song to you, O God; upon a ten-stringed harp I will play to you,

Psalm 33:2-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Praise the LORD with the lyre; make music to Him with a ten-stringed harp.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Sing a new song to Him; play skillfully on the strings, with a joyful shout.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For the word of the LORD is right, and all His work is trustworthy.

Psalm 92:1-3 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] It is good to praise the LORD and make music to your name, O Most High,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] to proclaim your love in the morning and your faithfulness at night,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] to the music of the ten-stringed lyre and the melody of the harp.

Judges 5:11 (ESV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] To the sound of musicians at the watering places, there they repeat the righteous triumphs of the LORD, the righteous triumphs of his villagers in Israel. “Then down to the gates marched the people of the LORD.

1 Chronicles 25:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] David and the chiefs of the service also set apart for the service the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who prophesied with lyres, with harps, and with cymbals. The list of those who did the work and of their duties was:

1 Chronicles 9:33 (GW)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] These were the musicians who were the heads of the Levite families. They lived in rooms in the temple and were free from other duties because they were on duty day and night.

1 Corinthians 14:7-8 (GW)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Musical instruments like the flute or harp produce sounds. If there is no difference in the notes, how can a person tell what tune is being played?
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For example, if the trumpet doesn't sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?

Habakkuk 3:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] The Lord GOD is my strength, And He has made my feet like hinds' feet, And makes me walk on my high places. For the choir director, on my stringed instruments.

2 Samuel 22:50 (GW)
[SUP]50 [/SUP] That is why I will give thanks to you, O LORD, among the nations and make music to praise your name.

1 Chronicles 16:9 (GW)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Sing to him. Make music to praise him. Meditate on all the miracles he has done.

Job 21:12 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They sing to the music of tambourine and harp; they make merry to the sound of the flute.

Ephesians 5:19-20 (NIV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.



So are you not disobeying the "EVERYTHING" in verse 20 if you are not thankful for the musical instruments and those whom GOD gifted to play them to praise the LORD? Is NOT praise music "a joyful noise"?

Psalm 95:2 (ASV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving; Let us make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.

Psalm 98:5-6 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Sing praises to the LORD with the lyre, with the lyre and the sound of melody!
[SUP]6 [/SUP] With trumpets and the sound of the horn make a joyful noise before the King, the LORD!

 

[Bowman]

Re: Yes...Jesus IS God...

Titus 1:1 Paul,
.....a servant of GOD, .....AND
.....an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect,
.....and the acknowledging of the TRUTH which is after godliness;
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Titus 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his WORD through PREACHING,
.....which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace,
.....from God [Theos] the Father
.....AND
.....the LORD [Kurios] Jesus Christ our Saviour.

God has given ALL authority which is exercised with the NAME (singular) Jesus whom GOD HAD MADE both lord and Christ.

Your posts are jacked-up and pose no threat to Jesus' divinity.

 

[newbirth]

I've been confused about this, so please help me understand. I've heard people say he is and isn't. Which is it?

The blessings of God be with you my friend I know God reveals himself to those who diligently seek him, while some may seek to convince you they cannot because they themselves don't have that trust in God. God came as flesh to reconcile us to himself Now we know there is only one God who is limitless who alone is to be worshipped, and one Lord Jesus the Christ who came out from God to be the way for us to be united with God through him, if we worship Christ and he is not God then we sin, but we know he comes from within God because it is written...
[h=3]John 1[/h]King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

I hope you are enlightened by the spirit of God to know him and have fellowship with him be blessed.

 

[presidente]

Quoting Church of Christ theology, I assume.

I don't think so. As far as I know, this poster is the only one who holds to this particular approach to Scripture and the idea that the passages about the Bible that mention musical instruments aren't really to be interpreted in such a straightforward manner, and that we need to read it with the esoteric knowledge that using musican instruments are demonic.

The typical approach is more of an application Regulative Principle from Reformed theology, even if they don't call it that. As best I can tell, some folks, if not nearly all, in the movement aren't opposed to musical instruments for entertainment outside of church.

 

[gamlet]

I've been confused about this, so please help me understand. I've heard people say he is and isn't. Which is it?

Try to find the many portions in the New Testament where He was worshipped by the Disciples. And He accepted their worship. And why were the Pharisees so mad when He proclaimed that the sins of the paralytic were forgiven (Mark 2)? Proclaiming forgiveness of sins is an act of God. Thus, he himself claimed His own divinity.

 

[KSublett]

The typical approach is more of an application Regulative Principle from Reformed theology, even if they don't call it that. As best I can tell, some folks, if not nearly all, in the movement aren't opposed to musical instruments for entertainment outside of church.[/COLOR]

WE ARE NOT SPEAKING OF OUTSIDE OF THE ASSEMBLY. David never led WORSHIP nor did he collect WORSHIP poems none of which you can sing tunefully if your life depended on it.

MUSIC DERIVED FROM MYSTERY MEANS TO MAKE THE LAMBS DUMB BEFORE THE SLAUGHTER.

Matthew 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head,
and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him,
and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
Matthew 27:28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.
Matthew 27:31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him,

and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.
Empaizō , fut. to be deluded II. sport in or on, “hōs nebros khloerais e. leimakos hēdonais” E.Ba. 866 (lyr.); tois khoroisin e. to sport in the dance, Ar.Th.975; “tō gumnasiō” Luc.Lex.5.
-Prospaizô , 2. abs., sport, jest, 3. laugh at, make fun or sport of, sing to the gods, sing in their praise or honour, 2. banter, tous rhêtoras
Paizo dance, play a game, 4.play on a musical instrument, h.Ap.206: c. acc., Panho kalamo phthongapaizôn [played on a reed]Ar.Ra.230 ; dance and sing, Pi. O.1.16.5. play amorously, prosallêlous X.Smp.9.2 ; metatinosLXX Ge.26.8 ; of mares, Arist.HA572a30.

How to use PSALLO to turn captives into WOMEN
Grant, then, forgiveness to the Lydians, and to make sure of their never rebelling against thee, or alarming thee more,
send and forbid them to keep any weapons of war, command them to wear tunics under their cloaks, and to put buskins upon their legs,
and make them bring up their sons to cithern-playing (Kitharizein), singing (psallein),
and shop-keeping (Hucksterism).
So wilt thou soon see them become women instead of men,
and there will be no more fear of their revolting from thee."

THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST DEFINED THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE: Disciples would not look for an end-run

Jesus SPOKE the WORD is the LOGOS or rational discord of God: Lexis is OPPOSITE to ODE.

1. plea, pretext, ground, would have admitted of an explanation, 2. statement of a theory, argument, to be explained
c. in Logic, proposition, whether as premiss or conclusion
d. rule, principle, law, as embodying the result of logismos
4. thesis, hypothesis, provisional ground,
5.reason, ground 6.formula (wider than definition, but freq. equivalent thereto), term expressing reason,
7.reason, law exhibited in the world-process,
c. of regulative and formative forces, derived from the intelligible and operative in the sensible universe
IV. inward debate of the soul 1.thinking, reasoning, explanation, opposite perception,
Opposite to poetry or music.

ALL HISTORIC SCHOLARS HONORED GOD'S RIGHT TO REGULATE
Theophilus to Autolycus Doctrine of the trinity.
God, then, having His own Wordinternal within His own bowels,
begat Him, emitting Him
along with His own wisdom before all things.

He had this Word as a helper in the things that were created by Him, and by Him He made all things.
He [Word] is called "governing principle", because He rules, and is Lord of all things fashioned by Him.He [Word] , then, being Spirit of God, and GOVERNING PRINCIPLEand wisdom, and power of the highest,came down upon the prophets, and through them spoke of the creation of the world and of all other things. (This was the Spirit of Christ, 1 Peter 1:11; Revelation 19:10)
For the prophets were not when the world came into existence,
......but the wisdom [Spirit in this instance is Sophia] of God which was in Him, and
......His holy Word which was always present with Him.

People who do not "speak that which is written for our learning" are MERCHANTS and that has an ugly meaning.
People who want to PERFORM when Jesus invites us to REST and LEARN of me are not DISCIPLES or Students of Christ.
LOGOS or the Regulative Principle FORBIDS preacher's tales, jokes or introductions. Christ commanded that the WORD be PREACHED by being READ for Comfort and Doctrine. Anything beyond that is the WORKS OF HUMAN HANDS.

 

[MidniteWelder]

Greetings Oldhermit
I've read your post entries # 502. & #550
It's an accurate assessment and am in agreement
Your illustrations used in addressing the topic I like as well.
One aspect I was thinking about before hand is:
In order to fully understand Jesus we must also fully understand God.
Since we cannot fully understand God we also cannot fully understand Jesus.

It looks as though you are also aware of this by what you've written.

In understanding heavenly things the wheel within a wheel...having many eyes suddenly comes to mind
Some people may envision some sort of strange contraption.
Though its not a contraption.
Its one of Gods creations, a heavenly one with a spirit.
Can we as humans understand this?
It becomes clear the more we know about God there is also more about him we would not be able to understand.
There are things in heaven we can't imagine, since everything on earth is not all God has created.
Ezekiels vision into heaven gave us a glimpse of such things.

As you have pointed out, the things of heaven are things we simply don't have the capacity to completely understand. We likely couldn't within our lifetime here on earth.

I like your car to car example because its similar to one I like to use
Explaining the process of how an internal combustion engine works to a 5 year old child.
We can show a child one, show them pictures, explain timing and ignition, correct air/fuel ratios etc.
Although a child at the end of the day will still not be able to fully retain and comprehend completely enough of the info and correlate precisely every aspect of how an engine functions.
They will know they've seen one and trust that it makes the car go.
And really, that's all a child would need to know at that time since further knowledge would not need to be called upon at that point in a child's life.
I believe this is an example of the process of precept upon precept.
One cannot go to the next level of understanding without comprehending the previous.
Kind of like how Jesus told us to enter heaven like a child.

God appears to equip inform or empower his people as needed, in his timing.
For instance have you ever studied something for years. And not fully understood it until one day...
It clicked.
And right when it clicked is right at the time your knowledge was called upon to put into practical application a skill or concept you'd tried to study for so long.

We really don't have to know all the ins and outs of how heaven works, and the full complete knowledge of who and what exactly God is.
But we do need to know the foundation if the need arises for more to be built upon. We need to know how to trust God with this.
As you said.
Having Faith in what is not seen.
Not relying upon our own understanding. Our own understanding trying to define something before God reveals it to us is what often gets in the way.
Don't let our schooling interfere with our education would be a good way of putting it.

I think you're on to something in that "we" cannot define God.
Not saying that the discussion would be moot
More that speculating on what God is with what we haven't been revealed...can lead to errors.
But we do know we are made in his "image" and "likeness" so there will be similarities.
What we can do is look at the facets, aspects and functions and character attributes God portrays to us.
"look at what we do know of him"
We know that everything came from God
Since everything came from God we can reason that God is the source of everything.
Could we then reason that God is everything? This could be error since it is based again on speculation.
If one is to fully understand God one must also be able to understand everything.
Is there one person on earth that understands everything?
Not even Einstein did,
but we have seen there are people that surpassed Einstein.
And even they don't understand everything.
But now put that knowledge collectively together, and we start to have something.
Perhaps the very thing God intended in the first place.
Everything, God and his people knit together with unity under his kingdom.

Solomon was claimed to be the wisest...
John the Baptist the greatest.
(but on earth) even the least in the kingdom are still greater than these.
God being the creator ...trumps them all.
Do we even fully understand the least in the kingdom of heaven?
Solomon distributed his God given knowledge to all throughout the Land and into Egypt. (can anybody say Great Pyramids).
Yet have we even discovered how and why these pyramids were built to this day?
Obviously Solomon had some great divine insight into things not discussed in the bible if these things were taken from his wisdom.

But then we know...Christ told us one greater than Solomon is here.
We can see Jesus came across people he never met, but Jesus still knew them. Revealing intimate facts about their private lives.

We are told nobody has seen the face of God yet people have seen Jesus.
One then could conclude that Jesus the "man" was not the full embodiment of God in all his glory and majesty.
(Since Gods voice came from heaven when Jesus was baptized)
(Also Jesus said no one comes to the Father but by me)

I have more thoughts on this topic but I'll stop here and ask ...
--------------------------
How did you come to know the father, but by his Word?

 

[oldhermit]

Greetings Oldhermit
I've read your post entries # 502. & #550
It's an accurate assessment and am in agreement
Your illustrations used in addressing the topic I like as well.
One aspect I was thinking about before hand is:
In order to fully understand Jesus we must also fully understand God.
Since we cannot fully understand God we also cannot fully understand Jesus.

It looks as though you are also aware of this by what you've written.

In understanding heavenly things the wheel within a wheel...having many eyes suddenly comes to mind
Some people may envision some sort of strange contraption.
Though its not a contraption.
Its one of Gods creations, a heavenly one with a spirit.
Can we as humans understand this?
It becomes clear the more we know about God there is also more about him we would not be able to understand.
There are things in heaven we can't imagine, since everything on earth is not all God has created.
Ezekiels vision into heaven gave us a glimpse of such things.

As you have pointed out, the things of heaven are things we simply don't have the capacity to completely understand. We likely couldn't within our lifetime here on earth.

I like your car to car example because its similar to one I like to use
Explaining the process of how an internal combustion engine works to a 5 year old child.
We can show a child one, show them pictures, explain timing and ignition, correct air/fuel ratios etc.
Although a child at the end of the day will still not be able to fully retain and comprehend completely enough of the info and correlate precisely every aspect of how an engine functions.
They will know they've seen one and trust that it makes the car go.
And really, that's all a child would need to know at that time since further knowledge would not need to be called upon at that point in a child's life.
I believe this is an example of the process of precept upon precept.
One cannot go to the next level of understanding without comprehending the previous.
Kind of like how Jesus told us to enter heaven like a child.

God appears to equip inform or empower his people as needed, in his timing.
For instance have you ever studied something for years. And not fully understood it until one day...
It clicked.
And right when it clicked is right at the time your knowledge was called upon to put into practical application a skill or concept you'd tried to study for so long.

We really don't have to know all the ins and outs of how heaven works, and the full complete knowledge of who and what exactly God is.
But we do need to know the foundation if the need arises for more to be built upon. We need to know how to trust God with this.
As you said.
Having Faith in what is not seen.
Not relying upon our own understanding. Our own understanding trying to define something before God reveals it to us is what often gets in the way.
Don't let our schooling interfere with our education would be a good way of putting it.

I think you're on to something in that "we" cannot define God.
Not saying that the discussion would be moot
More that speculating on what God is with what we haven't been revealed...can lead to errors.
But we do know we are made in his "image" and "likeness" so there will be similarities.
What we can do is look at the facets, aspects and functions and character attributes God portrays to us.
"look at what we do know of him"
We know that everything came from God
Since everything came from God we can reason that God is the source of everything.
Could we then reason that God is everything? This could be error since it is based again on speculation.
If one is to fully understand God one must also be able to understand everything.
Is there one person on earth that understands everything?
Not even Einstein did,
but we have seen there are people that surpassed Einstein.
And even they don't understand everything.
But now put that knowledge collectively together, and we start to have something.
Perhaps the very thing God intended in the first place.
Everything, God and his people knit together with unity under his kingdom.

Solomon was claimed to be the wisest...
John the Baptist the greatest.
(but on earth) even the least in the kingdom are still greater than these.
God being the creator ...trumps them all.
Do we even fully understand the least in the kingdom of heaven?
Solomon distributed his God given knowledge to all throughout the Land and into Egypt. (can anybody say Great Pyramids).
Yet have we even discovered how and why these pyramids were built to this day?
Obviously Solomon had some great divine insight into things not discussed in the bible if these things were taken from his wisdom.

But then we know...Christ told us one greater than Solomon is here.
We can see Jesus came across people he never met, but Jesus still knew them. Revealing intimate facts about their private lives.

We are told nobody has seen the face of God yet people have seen Jesus.
One then could conclude that Jesus the "man" was not the full embodiment of God in all his glory and majesty.
(Since Gods voice came from heaven when Jesus was baptized)
(Also Jesus said no one comes to the Father but by me)

I have more thoughts on this topic but I'll stop here and ask ...
--------------------------
How did you come to know the father, but by his Word?

Good post MW. Yea, there is so much we do not understand. In fact, I believe we know so little that we do not even know what questions to ask. I also know that scripture reveals more about God than we are sometimes prepared to acknowledge.

Are you ready to go on to lesson two?

 

[MidniteWelder]

In fact, I believe we know so little that we do not even know what questions to ask. I also know that scripture reveals more about God than we are sometimes prepared to acknowledge.

Are you ready to go on to lesson two?

Amen as is written in 1 Cor 2:9
"What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him--

Please proceed

 

[oldhermit]

Amen as is written in 1 Cor 2:9
"What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him--

Please proceed

All of the material I will be using will be mine unless otherwise stated.



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Things that are incommensurable cannot be measured on the same plain or compared with the same standard of measurement. Any standard of comparison from within our own field of existence will never measure up to the reality of God. We can never truly understand God through anything learned within the framework of human experience. Human reason that is divorced from revelation can add nothing of value to the revealed text and can tell us nothing about God. Through scripture, God allows us to see, in a limited fashion, some things about his nature, his power, his personality, his presence, his wisdom and his involvement in human affairs. Any concept of God that can be regarded as uncompromised must come from God’s own revelation about Himself. [/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]THE NATURE OF GOD AND THE INCOMPATIBILITY [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]OF HUMAN INTELLIGENCE[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] The first thing that we must realize about the nature of God is that we can never sufficiently understand the nature of God. Perhaps the most sobering question which confronts us in this study is not how do we understand the nature of God, but how do we approach the Word of God to understand what God has revealed of himself? For the word of God to have its proper place in connection with the mind of man, it must be given its agential position. We must take everything that God has revealed about himself in scripture and allow the text to superimpose upon our minds a revealed image of his nature. Without the influence of scripture, any concept that one may have of God will always be the sole product of the individual. When one removes one’s self from the inspired text all that remains to fall back on is the uninspired world of human intelligence. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If we are to enter this study in earnest, we must first suspend for the moment everything we feel that we already know about God. Let us not be guilty of bringing anything of our own into this study. Human intelligence, being what it is, has the tendency to insist that scripture agree with long held, deeply rooted, and cherished concepts of God. We must be willing to set aside experiential logic and begin with the word of God allowing scripture to influence and entrain the mind. This means that we may need to change the way we think, the way we speak, the way we read scripture and certainly the way we understand reality. This may challenge many of our ideas about God, which, for some of us, may prove to be very uncomfortable. Nevertheless, the word of God must be allowed to overturn all unrevealed ideologies about the nature of God. Unrevealed ideologies are inherently the product of socialization. As such, it will prove a great hindrance to the development of a biblically constructed theology. [/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Limited Nature of Revelation [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]When I speak of revelation, I am speaking of the Bible as the exclusive written[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]representation of the mind of God given to us by the Almighty about himself. What I mean by limited is that God has not revealed everything to us about himself, Deuteronomy 29:29 and 1Corintheans 2:9-10. What he has revealed linguistically is found only[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]within the Bible. Revelation is limited because of the limited capacity of the human mind to comprehend things it cannot envision and because of the inability of human[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]language to explain things of the non-natural world. Revelation about God is very often anthropomorphic.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This is because man can only understand that with which he has an experiential[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]frame of reference. In order for God to reveal himself in scripture, he uses human language to present himself to us in terms with which we are all familiar and to which each of us[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]can relate based on our own individual experiences. For example, in his relationship to man God speaks of himself as father, friend, shepherd, master, judge, king, and husband.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]He speaks of such physical traits as hair, wings, thigh, hand, arm, heart, and bosom. He[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]speaks of character traits such as love, knowledge, wisdom, hate, will, anger, mercy, tenderness, and compassion. We are all familiar with these terms and can relate to them based on our own experiences, but only to a limited degree. We can only understand these terms to the degree that each of us experiences them at the personal level. This means that each of us will have developed different levels of understanding about each of these concepts. Regardless of one’s level of understanding of these terms, we can never fully understand them to the degree that they relate to God. [/FONT]

 

[KSublett]

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [a Prophet]
......but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. [a Prophet like Moses]
John 1:18 No man hath seen GOD at any time;
......The only begotten Son, which is in the bosom
... ..[II. fold of a garment, esp. as it fell over the girdle, a garment, sinus the bosom,
......as in most other languages, for love, protection, asylum i. e. under the care or tuition,]
......of the Father,
......he hath declared him.

The Father breathed (spirit) and Jesus declared or spoke the WORDS, Logos or Regulating Principle. That is why There is ONE GOD THE FATHER and ONE Mediator between God and man, the MAN Christ Jesus

Declared: exēg-eomai , A.to be leader of, 2. c. acc. pers., lead, govern, 3. c. dat. pers. et acc. rei, show one the way to,
II. dictate a form of WORDS, “e. ton nomon tō kēruki” D.19.70; exēgou theous dictate, name them, E.Med.745.
2. generally, prescribe, order, 3. expound, interpret, “e. to ounoma kai tēn thusiēn” Hdt.2.49;

kērux A.herald, pursuivant: generally, public messenger, envoy from presbeis, as being messengers between nations, interchangeably with apostolos

​

Paul said that Jesus made the Prophecies by Christ more certain: that means that no one can Private Interpret or further expound what Jesus came to INTERPRET. That Word has once and for all times delivered to the saints and not to the doctors of the law.

Declared: ē-narro, to explain in detail, to expound, interpret, more explicitly: “scribere,”

 

[VCO]

I don't think so. As far as I know, this poster is the only one who holds to this particular approach to Scripture and the idea that the passages about the Bible that mention musical instruments aren't really to be interpreted in such a straightforward manner, and that we need to read it with the esoteric knowledge that using musican instruments are demonic.

The typical approach is more of an application Regulative Principle from Reformed theology, even if they don't call it that. As best I can tell, some folks, if not nearly all, in the movement aren't opposed to musical instruments for entertainment outside of church.

Here is why I suspected it to be Church of Christ Theology: WHY THE CHURCH OF CHRIST WORSHIPS WITHOUT INSTRUMENTS OF MUSIC

 

[Teagan]

Yes....... Jesus is God.

 

[KSublett]

The typical approach is more of an application Regulative Principle from Reformed theology, even if they don't call it that. As best I can tell, some folks, if not nearly all, in the movement aren't opposed to musical instruments for entertainment outside of church.

The Word or LOGOS is defined as the Regulative or Governing Principle. In Isaiah 8 the Spirit OF Christ said of those who do NOT speak the revealed Word THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM

No one has discussed instruments OUTSIDE of the Assembly which is define as A School of Christ: the command was to PREACH the WORD (only) by READING the Word for Comfort and Doctrine. That's how Paul commanded Timothy to hold synagogue or gathering that that is the recorded practice until singing as an ACT was imposed by the syriac churches in the year 373.

I own 6 musical instruments and can play none with proficiency. The DEFINITION of WORSHIP has come to be that into a human institution with a huge staff of people claiming to PERFORM worship or lead you into the presence of God. However, that is the mark of standing in the holy place claiming the role of Jesus:

There is ONE GOD the Father
And One Mediator BETWEEN man and God, the MAN Christ Jesus.

The elders are to teach that which has been taught and there is no command, example or remote inference of God ever calling the godly people out of their REST day to hold a worship service with congregational singing with or without instruments.

Because none of the text is METRICAL it cannot be sung TUNEFULLY and cannot be ACCOMPANIED by group singing with instrumental accompaniment. It is probably that shepherd David took 3 or 4 sticks, stretched 3 strings across them with no sounding board. Singing TO a harp is defined in the literature as plucking a string and then trying to match your voice to it. A melody could consist of ONE NOTE.

Melody is NOT harmony and is not related to it. Literal melody would restrict you to a series of single notes. Psallo never means musical melody: the Spirit had several words to imply any musical content to the SCHOOL OF THE WORD. Psallo means to pluck or smite something with your FINGERS and never with a plectrum. Psallo outlaws guitar picks, flutes, drums, pianos or organs. The Spirit of Christ was not ignorant: there are unique compound words which MUST be used or what you pluck must be NAMED

Psal-ma , atos, to, A. tune played on a stringed instrument,
Psal-mizō , A. sing psalms, and psal-mistēs , ou, ho, psalmist
Paul said to SPEAK psalms
Psalmōd-ia , A. singing to the harp,
Psaltōd-eō , A. sing to the harp, LXX 2 Ch.5.13.

"And so the lyre-player [psaltees] not rudely nor inelegantly put the curb on Phillip when he tried to dispute with him about the way to strike [psalles] the lyre [psalteerion]. -Moralia, p. 67F.


Again, Phrynichus says in The Phoenician Women, '
With plucking [psalmoisin]
of the strings they sing [aeidontes]
their lays in answering strains." -The Deiphnosphists, XIV. 635, Translated by Gulick, Vol. 6, p. 427.

Jesus asked "Could you not tarry with me for one hour?" The answer is, No, we MUST replace your word or LOGOS which is defined as the Regulative Principle and outlaws rhetoric, singing, playing instruments, acting or dancing.

You have 167 extra hours to pluck to your hearts content. However, please don't expect anyone to PAY you to listen to you: There is no ROLE and no DOLE for rhetoricians, singers or instrument players.

Churches of Christ picked up on the Regulative Principle when the Serpent or Musical Enchanter seduced Eve. Those who rejected the Regulative Principle give themselves the right to REGULATE and as they often say "get over it or get out."

Regulative.Principle.and.Churches.of.Christ

 

[KSublett]

Yes....... Jesus is God.

All of the Recorded WORD says that Jesus was the SON OF GOD but only after He was baptized.

There is only ONE GOD THE FATHER. Every attribute which you can name IS GOD.

The One Almighty conceives or thinks or plans.
The One Almighty BREATES (spirit is not another god)
The One Amighty Speaks or Articulates. That is God's WORD or God's generated of spring.

John 1 does not say that GOD BECAME FLESH: sorry you missed that.
John said that the WORD became flesh. The Almighty is not flesh and bones and does not BECOME flesh and bones. The BREATH of God is like the WIND and it never becomes flesh. Therefore, the text says that the WORD became flesh.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom [garment] of the Father,
he hath declared him.

People SAW Jesus therefore Jesus was NOT GOD the Almighty.
Jesus SPOKE the WORD or Logos as God's Regulative Principle; He DECLARED HIM or spoke God's Laws.
God's REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE or Logos is not another god person whom the Almighty needed from eternity past.

Christ means God'a annointed. What God annoints cannot BE God.
Christ means MESSIAH. Messiah was the SEED (sperm) of Abraham and not of the SPERM of God. You may be thinking of the pagan Logos, hermes the god of traders and liars.
If you say that MESSIAH did not come in the FLESH then John says that you are ANTI-CHRIST because you deny that God could carry out His will with a human being.

 

[Bowman]

There is only ONE GOD THE FATHER.

οιδαμεν δε οτι ο υιος του θεου ηκει και δεδωκεν ημιν διανοιαν ινα γινωσκομεν τον αληθινον και εσμεν εν τω αληθινω εν τω υιω αυτου ιησου χριστω ουτος εστιν ο αληθινος θεος και ζωη αιωνιος


And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)

 

[Richie_2uk]

John 10: 30 says it clearly. and answers the question short and simple.

John 10: 30 " I and the Father are one. "

 

[Alfonz6463]

I've been confused about this, so please help me understand. I've heard people say he is and isn't. Which is it?

Sophia, for me, John 1:1 - 18 answers your question in an elegant, powerful way. Yes, Jesus was God. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Through Him all things were made and nothing was made without Him. The Word became flesh and lived among us for a time, but many did not receive Him. But for those who did receive Him, he gave the right to be called Children of God. I encourage you to read this for yourself.