Speaking in tongues

[SeaBass]

Many people believe that tongues is a human language, but the bible does not support that. In Acts 2 there were about 120 people filled with the Holy Spirit and many heard them in there own language. Now think about this how can one understand anyone when 120 people are speaking 15 different languages?

Speaking in tongues is not something that every believer will do according to 1 cor 12:30

On the being baptized in the Holy Spirit can be debated but Jesus said go to Jerusalem until you are endowed with Power. I believer the true sign of being Filled with the Holy Spirit is your obedience to the word of God boldness to speak the truth of the Bible no matter what comes against you.

The context of Acts chapter 1 and 2 do not support the idea that the 120 were baptized with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

 

[The_highwayman]

I've never spoken in tongues.

But I'm just as much saved and just as much spirit-filled as anyone else in God's Kingdom.

Speaking in tongues is not about salvation

 

[The_highwayman]

And the next verse is: "They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover"
A man that thought that meant today died a few days ago of snakebite. Do you know tongues talkers that handle snakes and lay their hands on sick people and heal them?
Jesus also said: "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give", but He wasn't talking to you and I.
If you will read Acts 5:12-16, you will find Christ's commands were fulfilled then. That which is perfect is come. There is no need for the signs God gave us at the beginning of the church. Tongues is unnecessary in a world that everyone can communicate with everyone.

Phil,
If all we needed was the Bible, it makes Jesus and his ministry a liar and a fraud...

 

[paulsfam4]

speaking in tongues is one of the gifts of the holy spirit. there is nine! we are saved if we confess our sins and accept Jesus as our savior the apostles were saved before they received the spirit...and the lord will give one or more to any who ask.1. The Word of Knowledge

2. The Word of Wisdom

3. The Gift of Prophecy

4. The Gift of Faith

5. The Gifts of Healings

6. The Working of Miracles

7. The Discerning of Spirits

8. Different Kinds of Tongues

9. The Interpretation of Tongues

and all these help us serve God and strengthen our relationship with him..

 

[KohenMatt]

Speaking in tongues is not about salvation

...Exactly.

 

[phil112]

Phil,
If all we needed was the Bible, it makes Jesus and his ministry a liar and a fraud...

Friend, it took Jesus and His ministry to give us the bible. Are you saying that the word of God isn't perfect?

 

[SeaBass]

So you follow what the Bible says, to be clear we are not goign to discuss tongues here, but the Baptism of the Holy Ghost you state ended with Joel.

1 Cor 6.19 says:
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is IN you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own

Acts 1.8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come UPON you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 2.4a
And they were all FILLED with the Holy Ghost

These verses are just a few that use all 3 of words in bold red and underlined. I am not going to list every verse that list these words are used with the Holy Ghost and the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Surely a person that follows their Bible, such as you , should know without question that the words IN, UPON & FILLED mean very different things.

The demonic ignorance of the church today is the lack of understanding that the Holy Ghost works IN the believer for sanctification, conviction, comforter, teacher and the Holy Ghost works UPON the believer to deliver the anointing needed to be a witness and do the work of the ministry.

In short, the Holy Ghost works IN and UPON the believer. The work IN the believer starts at conversion. The work UPON the believer is started when the person is Baptized into the Holy Ghost & Anointed with power, just as Jesus was. The Bible proves this without any doubt, mystery, confusion or question.

Lets Talk about FILLED for a moment.
Acts 2.4a
And they were all FILLED with the Holy Ghost

Acts 4.31
And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all FILLED with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

For those that say the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is not a separate event from salvation /receiving the work of the Holy Ghost IN you or only needed for the Apostles, or that Pentecost was not a separate event, then why did Peter & John get filled again?

It was evident that Peter & John received were FILLED the Holy Ghost and power in Acts 2.4...If you follow the Bible and the story of Acts 3 and 4, you will notice that Peter and John again are the central characters and in Acts 4.31 the Holy Ghost FILLED everyone, including Peter & John again.

So for those that follow the Bible it is evident that the Holy Ghost works IN and UPON the believer. It also evident that there is a Baptism of the Holy Ghost that FILLS a believer and an enduement of power UPON the believer to empower their anointing for being a witness.

The demonic lie that it is only for the Apostles is also debunked because there were than the 12 Apostles in the upper room and more than 120 and the original 12 Apostles who were Baptized in the Holy Ghost and endued with power in the church in Acts 4.

Doctrine will pass away, but the word of God shall stand forever...

Baptism with the Holy GHost only takes place twice in the NT, with the apostles in Acts 2 and Gentiles in Acts 10.

1 Cor 6;19 is not bptism with the Holy Ghost. Acts 1:8 Jesus is sepaking the aposltes who werre bpatized with the Holy Ghost in Acts 2. And in Acts 2 the only ones baptized with the Holy Ghost were the apostles:

--Acts 2:1-4 the plural pronouns 'they and'them' refer to the nearest plural antecedent the a"apostles' of Acts 1:26

--in Acts 1:1-5 is was just the aposlts to whom jesus was speaking promising them the baptism iwththe Holy Ghost. The meeting of the 120 was a different place and time from verses 1-8, Verse 9 Jesus was taken up in a cloud and was not speaking to the 120 at the later date and place.

--Acts 2:7 the ones that spoke in tongues were the ones that spoke Galilaean. The apostles were from Galilee, Acts 1:11. Galilee was a good distance from Jerusalem and the probablity of the idea that the crowd spoke in tongues were all from Galiliee and not a single person of the crowd was not from right there in Jerusalem is to improbable to be possible.

Acts 4:31 the apostles were filled with the Holy Ghost not to speak in "unitelligilbe utterances" but to speak (earthly languages) the word of God with boldness. As A. Barnes notes "They were all filled ... - Their being filled with the Holy Spirit here rather denotes their being inspired with confidence or boldness than being endowed with new powers, as in Acts 2:4.

 

[notuptome]

Regarding 'Except ye SEE signs and wonders, ye will not believe.' Jesus said this after a nobleman asked for Jesus to heal his son.

It's lamentable that people were that way. Yet Jesus still did signs and wonders. Thomas wouldn't beleive in the resurrection, he said, unless he put his finger in the Lord's hand and his hand in His side. Christ told him to do it and 'be not faithless, but believing.' But He said blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have beleived.

People who believe without seeing are more blessed, but that doesn't mean that God in His mercy doesn't at times do miracles, and even do miracles through people, as scripture shows us.

But back to the original point, notice that the signs and wonders had an effect on them that saw them.

See also Acts 13
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.

This doesn't support the idea that miracles were just to once-for-all confirm a book. The miracles had an effect on those who SAW them. That's not the same thing as reading about them in scripture. The first century Jews could have read about the parting of the Red Sea and Moses' other miracles. Jesus said Moses wrote of Him. So why would there be any miracles after Moses to confirm the Gospel if John Calvin's reasoning were true?

Saving faith comes not from miracles but from hearing the word of God Rom 10:17 What does John Calvin have to do with what Jesus said of Israel? Jesus called them an evil and adulterous generation. Do you want to be associated with that kind? Signs are for the Jews but Gentiles seek after knowledge. Jesus came specifically to Israel. Israel rejected Him even though He proved His authority with signs and wonders. Our authority is in the word of God. The Holy Spirit ministers the word to the hearts of men through the word of God.

Why don't you apply the same reasoning to water baptism? Show me someone who baptized in the Bible who wasn't Jewish? Show me someone who got saved without a Jew being present? Show me evidence of a church in scripture that didn't have a Jew in it? Would you argue that we can't have water baptism, salvation, preaching, or a church without Jews being present?

So the Philippian jailer was Jewish? What of the Ethiopian eunuch?

Paul doesn't say they were a sign for the Jews, but for them that believe not. The Isaiah passage he quotes is about the northern kingdom. The Jews were descended from the people of the southern kingdom.

Jesus said it.

I don't see how tongues makes a church more money.

Without tongues the church would be empty. They come not to hear the word of God proclaimed but to see the show, to be entertained.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

"all flesh" - pertains to "all" who repent and are baptized shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38) which equals being "filled with the holy Spirit" which equals being "baptized with holy Spirit".

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the holy Spirit not many days hence which equals "the promise of the Father".

The one baptism is the baptism that can actually change a man from the inside out; the one baptism given by our Lord Jesus Christ; the one baptism that creates the new man - baptism with the holy Spirit - water administered by man only cleanses/washes the outside. . . .

The command to "be baptized", Acts 2:38 refers to the human administered water baptism of the great commission. ACts 1:1-5 baptism withthe HS was promised to the apostles. Comannds can be obyed but not promises. No one was ever commanded to be baptized withthe Holy Spirit but were commanded to be water baptized.

Acts 1:5 "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

Exegesis requires to understand who is speaking, who is being spoken to and what is being said. The context of Acts 1;1=5 show that it is Jesus speaking, the aposltes bing spoken to and Jesus promise the apostles baptism with the HS. So context shows this promise was not to the 120, not to anyone today,

Eph 4:5 there is one baptism that is in effect and it is NOT baptism with the HS but the water baptism of the great commissionthat lasts till the end of the world.


Water baptism of the great commission:

commanded so it can be obeyed
made one a disciple
saves
lasts till the end of the world
administerd by human hands


Baptism with the Holy Ghost:

Never commanded, only promised to the apostles
did not make one a disciple
nowhere is said to save
nowhere said to last till the end of time
not adminstered by man

 

[SeaBass]

If a man rejects the baptism of the Holy Spirit, then he rejects the sanctifying work of the Spirit of Christ.
Rejecting tongues is one thing,
but to reject the Spirit is to deny the power of God in our lives.

Lets keep the conversation about tongues, and stop stepping into topics that tempt those who are weak in faith to blaspheme.

If water is the only baptism, then we are reborn as sons still of the natural world, just as we were when born of the 1st Adam.
If Spirit is the baptism, then we are reborn in spirit, and like the second Adam, we take on immorality, and may inherit that which is immortal.

There is one baptism, Eph 4:5, > the eunuch was water baptized with this one baptism. The eunuch was not baptized with the Holy Spirit.

 

[dcontroversal]

The context of Acts chapter 1 and 2 do not support the idea that the 120 were baptized with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

Now, I would agree with this....imagine me agreeing with Sea Perch HAH! The world must be coming to an end soon!

 

[dcontroversal]

Phil,
If all we needed was the Bible, it makes Jesus and his ministry a liar and a fraud...

How do you come to this conclusion and or why do you think this....not mouthing just asking why you would say this or believe this....?

 

[dcontroversal]

My pastor wants everyone in church to speak in tongues. We are Baptist but believe in the gifts and practice them. Does speaking in an unknown tongue gives the evidence that we are spirit filed and saved believers? I have friends who are believers in Jesus and they do not practice this. They lead a spirit filled life and are wonderful people of the faith. What does it mean for the whole church to be toungers in the spirit? Who will this edify and how do we interpret this if everyone is babbling? I for one want to be able to know what is being said. He said that he was in Croatia and spoke in tongue, and the people understood him because he was speaking in their native tongue about the Lord. I love the Lord with all my heart and soul,and I have just only talked to him in my native tongue English in which he knows. In speaking in tongue does that make me a super saint and put me on a higher level than other believers? I think after 20 years, I should be at another level in this spiritual journey. I am trying not to use the word Christian...because my pastor says that is the wrong terminology.. We are saved believers. This sets us apart from others who say and use the term Christian..yet they really are not and to remember Christian is not a denomination. Our mandate is to get them to the church..Lead them to Christ...Form community.... Put them to work within the church and pray for church growth and tongue talkers!!!. Is tongues still needed?...or is it just a preference for those who want it?
Just asking.

What kind of Baptist would that be?

General
Independent
Free Will
Southern
Missionary

etc.?

 

[SeaBass]

Phil,
If all we needed was the Bible, it makes Jesus and his ministry a liar and a fraud...

2 Tim 3:16,17, scripture is all manneeds.

Jn 20:30,31 John wrote signs down where they CONTINUE to induce a belief in people theeeby rendering a repeat of those signs unnecessary.

 

[The_highwayman]

Baptism with the Holy GHost only takes place twice in the NT, with the apostles in Acts 2 and Gentiles in Acts 10.

1 Cor 6;19 is not bptism with the Holy Ghost. Acts 1:8 Jesus is sepaking the aposltes who werre bpatized with the Holy Ghost in Acts 2. And in Acts 2 the only ones baptized with the Holy Ghost were the apostles:

--Acts 2:1-4 the plural pronouns 'they and'them' refer to the nearest plural antecedent the a"apostles' of Acts 1:26

--in Acts 1:1-5 is was just the aposlts to whom jesus was speaking promising them the baptism iwththe Holy Ghost. The meeting of the 120 was a different place and time from verses 1-8, Verse 9 Jesus was taken up in a cloud and was not speaking to the 120 at the later date and place.

--Acts 2:7 the ones that spoke in tongues were the ones that spoke Galilaean. The apostles were from Galilee, Acts 1:11. Galilee was a good distance from Jerusalem and the probablity of the idea that the crowd spoke in tongues were all from Galiliee and not a single person of the crowd was not from right there in Jerusalem is to improbable to be possible.

Acts 4:31 the apostles were filled with the Holy Ghost not to speak in "unitelligilbe utterances" but to speak (earthly languages) the word of God with boldness. As A. Barnes notes "They were all filled ... - Their being filled with the Holy Spirit here rather denotes their being inspired with confidence or boldness than being endowed with new powers, as in Acts 2:4.

Who is A. Barnes, and why should I care? I showed you what the Bible says and you still refute the truth.

 

[The_highwayman]

2 Tim 3:16,17, scripture is all manneeds.

Jn 20:30,31 John wrote signs down where they CONTINUE to induce a belief in people theeeby rendering a repeat of those signs unnecessary.

So you also prove Jesus and his ministry to be a lair and fraud...

 

[The_highwayman]

How do you come to this conclusion and or why do you think this....not mouthing just asking why you would say this or believe this....?

If you follow cessation you will never udnerstand...not mouthing, just stating a fact and it has nothing to do with tongues.

 

[LT]

So if you reject Spirit baptism for the saints, how do you explain Acts 1:5?
If we are born of water, we are still born of flesh. We must be reborn of spirit.

Isn't baptism the symbol of rebirth? Yes.
Don't reject what the Scripture teaches concerning the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but cling to the promises.

 

[LT]

So you also prove Jesus and his ministry to be a lair and fraud...

Don't go that far.

 

[dcontroversal]

If you follow cessation you will never udnerstand...not mouthing, just stating a fact and it has nothing to do with tongues.

Cessation??