Speaking in tongues
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Woo, here we have to be very, very careful as we do not want to put in question and sin against the Holy Ghost, I do believe that one sin is not forgivable? From what I have heard, (who am I for that matter) we have the same Spirit as the disciples had but can we raise the dead, can we drive-out evil spirits, can we speak in tongues? I think not, because speaking in tongues does not edify the church or other blood bought? But to say 100% not speaking in tongues is possible might be saying that the gift is not possible? All things are possible through Christ Jesus, or have I missed something?
Step-back and let us reason together, if we do or someone does it must be translated, for we do not know what is going on, praising God or cursing God, I have heard of people that where seeking the gift of gab, and traveled from Europe to the US somewhere in New York, and after a ceremony with the oiling of the subject and of hands on prayer, that person came away speaking in a tongue, to make a long story short after years of this talk of gab, and then one day in a church a woman from Poland went to the pastor of that church and informed him that this one person with this gift of gab, was speaking Polish, and that she was not praising God, but cursing God. of all the thing that Satan can use against the blood bought that would and could be one of the worst things that could possibly come to pass. why seek after something that we don't have any idea of what and how it works, it makes the hair on the nap of my neck stand on end.
So what am I trying to say, do and Paul told us to do, seek after the gift prophecy, and stay with the gifts that we know of and how they work, be blessed, and I pray that the Spirit of the living God will translate this answer to those seeking gifts.
Step-back and let us reason together, if we do or someone does it must be translated, for we do not know what is going on, praising God or cursing God, I have heard of people that where seeking the gift of gab, and traveled from Europe to the US somewhere in New York, and after a ceremony with the oiling of the subject and of hands on prayer, that person came away speaking in a tongue, to make a long story short after years of this talk of gab, and then one day in a church a woman from Poland went to the pastor of that church and informed him that this one person with this gift of gab, was speaking Polish, and that she was not praising God, but cursing God. of all the thing that Satan can use against the blood bought that would and could be one of the worst things that could possibly come to pass. why seek after something that we don't have any idea of what and how it works, it makes the hair on the nap of my neck stand on end.
So what am I trying to say, do and Paul told us to do, seek after the gift prophecy, and stay with the gifts that we know of and how they work, be blessed, and I pray that the Spirit of the living God will translate this answer to those seeking gifts.
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Before Jesus left earth, He promised the apostles, no one else, the Comforter (Holy Ghost), Jn 14:16,26; Jn 15:26: Jn 16:7. The purpose of giving the apostles the Corforter was "he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." Jn 16:7 Jesus had to first leave before that Comforter came to the apostles.
In Matt 3:11 John said "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"
From the immediate context of Mt 3:11 we cannot tell who the pronouns "you" refer to, therefore we must look to the fulfillment of this promise as to who the "you" is that will be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Acts 1:1-7 Jesus is with and speaking to His apostles and in verse 5, Jesus refers to John's prophecy of Mt 3:11, verse 5 saying "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence." So From Acts 1:1-7 we can now know it was the apostles whom John was prophesying that would be baptized with the Holy Spirit. So in Acts 1:9 Jesus left earth so the Comforter would come to the apostles in Acts 2. And From Acts 2 it was the "hands of the apostles" Acts 5:12,18; miraculous signs were being performed. Not until about Acts 6:8 do we see someone other than an apostle performing an apostolic sign (2 Cor 12:12). The apostles, no one else, had the power to lay their hands upon another and pass that person an apostolic sign, Acts 8:17,18. Those that received an apostolic sign from one of the apostles could not pass that sign on to another. So when all the apostles died, no one was left to pass those signs to another. And when the last person died that had been given an apostolic sign by one of the apostles, the signs ceased. So none today have a miraculous indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
In Matt 3:11 John said "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"
From the immediate context of Mt 3:11 we cannot tell who the pronouns "you" refer to, therefore we must look to the fulfillment of this promise as to who the "you" is that will be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Acts 1:1-7 Jesus is with and speaking to His apostles and in verse 5, Jesus refers to John's prophecy of Mt 3:11, verse 5 saying "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence." So From Acts 1:1-7 we can now know it was the apostles whom John was prophesying that would be baptized with the Holy Spirit. So in Acts 1:9 Jesus left earth so the Comforter would come to the apostles in Acts 2. And From Acts 2 it was the "hands of the apostles" Acts 5:12,18; miraculous signs were being performed. Not until about Acts 6:8 do we see someone other than an apostle performing an apostolic sign (2 Cor 12:12). The apostles, no one else, had the power to lay their hands upon another and pass that person an apostolic sign, Acts 8:17,18. Those that received an apostolic sign from one of the apostles could not pass that sign on to another. So when all the apostles died, no one was left to pass those signs to another. And when the last person died that had been given an apostolic sign by one of the apostles, the signs ceased. So none today have a miraculous indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
The purpose of miraculous gifts was to bring about the complete revealed word of God and confimation of that word. Since God's word was compltely revealed by the end of the first century, those signs then fullfilled their pupose and have ceased, 1 Cor 13; Eph 4.
As scaffolding is used to construct a building, signs were used to "construct" the written word of God. And when the building is completed, the scaffolding is not left but taken away. Likewise, the signs were taken away when they completed their purpose.
Jn 20:30,31, John wrote signs down that were performed back then whereby those sign being written dow CONTINUE to induce a belief in people, even today. Therefore God does not need to repeat those signs, if one wants to beleve in signs, read the ones that John wrote down.
As scaffolding is used to construct a building, signs were used to "construct" the written word of God. And when the building is completed, the scaffolding is not left but taken away. Likewise, the signs were taken away when they completed their purpose.
Jn 20:30,31, John wrote signs down that were performed back then whereby those sign being written dow CONTINUE to induce a belief in people, even today. Therefore God does not need to repeat those signs, if one wants to beleve in signs, read the ones that John wrote down.
Actually the opposite is what scripture and prophecy teach. The sign gifts will appear again when Christ returns and establishes His 1000 year kingdom on the earth. This is what Joel sees as the latter rain.
the perfect Paul was looking for in 1 Cor 13 is likely the completed cannon of scripture.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
the perfect Paul was looking for in 1 Cor 13 is likely the completed cannon of scripture.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
P
I beg to differ. The Word was made flesh and walked among us. You think when Christ left, He didn't leave all of the word. True, sort of. You think when He taught Paul for 3 years He left something out. No. We have exactly what God wanted us to have. The word leads us unto an adult state of being made perfect in Christ. "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Now we surely can't be perfect physically or spiritually as He is, so the only thing that could mean would be perfection thru His word.
We are a perfect (mature) man when we learn and accept His word. The holy scripture is the only way we have of knowing the difference in true and false doctrine, that keeps us from being carried about as a random breeze carries leaves.
Spiritual perfection cannot be achieved by us on this planet. The only perfection available to us is the perfect word of God, that increases our knowledge and understanding of Him and His love.
We are a perfect (mature) man when we learn and accept His word. The holy scripture is the only way we have of knowing the difference in true and false doctrine, that keeps us from being carried about as a random breeze carries leaves.
Spiritual perfection cannot be achieved by us on this planet. The only perfection available to us is the perfect word of God, that increases our knowledge and understanding of Him and His love.
Why don't you read a few verses down? Or do you want to?
Acts 2:14-18 (KJV) [SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: [SUP]15 [/SUP]For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; [SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: [SUP]18 [/SUP]And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Peter states plainly that this is the fulfillment of Joel. Therefore it's all of them.
Why don't you quit chopping up the scriptures & read them all?
Acts 2:14-18 (KJV) [SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: [SUP]15 [/SUP]For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; [SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: [SUP]18 [/SUP]And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Peter states plainly that this is the fulfillment of Joel. Therefore it's all of them.
Why don't you quit chopping up the scriptures & read them all?
People who read Greek, just like us, look at the whole context and the general sense of it. Peter addressed the crowd of about 120, and two from among them were chosen as candidates to replace Judas, and they cast lots. The apostles were there with the 120 at the close of chapter 1.
It is clear from the rest of the book and from I Corinthians 12-14 that speaking in tongues was not limited to the 12. When some in the crowd mocked at speaking in tongues, Peter responded, "[SUP]16 [/SUP]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
"
Notice "all flesh"-- not the 12 apostles.
What you are saying doesn't fit the context. Peter said the promise was for them, their children, as many as are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Chapter 10 shows even Gentiles being baptized with the Holy Spirit, even speaking with tongues.
Oops, Stephen made the same point, I saw after I posted.
It is clear from the rest of the book and from I Corinthians 12-14 that speaking in tongues was not limited to the 12. When some in the crowd mocked at speaking in tongues, Peter responded, "[SUP]16 [/SUP]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
"
Notice "all flesh"-- not the 12 apostles.
What you are saying doesn't fit the context. Peter said the promise was for them, their children, as many as are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Chapter 10 shows even Gentiles being baptized with the Holy Spirit, even speaking with tongues.
Oops, Stephen made the same point, I saw after I posted.
If these things ceased at the close of the canon, it doesn't make sense that they would revive for the 1000 year reign.
The perfect cannot refer to the closing of the canon of scripture. By having a copy of the canon, does that make your speech, knowledge, and understanding greater than one of the author's of scripture? Would you claim to understand the mysteries revealed to Paul better than Paul, because you have a copy of his child-like understanding in the canon?
The perfect cannot refer to the closing of the canon of scripture. By having a copy of the canon, does that make your speech, knowledge, and understanding greater than one of the author's of scripture? Would you claim to understand the mysteries revealed to Paul better than Paul, because you have a copy of his child-like understanding in the canon?
This is man-made reasoning. Here are some problems with it:
1. There was not just one purpose for miracles.
The miracle of splitting the Red Sea displayed God's power. It showed people that God's power was working through Moses. They might be more inclined to accept the Torah after that.
But it had another purpose-- to make a way across the Red Sea. You have no Biblical authority for saying there was one purpose for it. Jesus healng a paralytic didn't just confirm the Gospel, or ONLY show that the Son of Man had power on earth to forgive sin. The healing also healed. The paralytic could walk after the healing. What is your authority for saying that part of God's 'purpose' was not that the man might be healed?
If Jesus said, 'that ye may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins', then how dare you say that was not a purpose of the healing. So clearly, the purpose was not ONLY to confirm the word. Your assertion contradicts scripture.
Jesus healed a blind man and said he was born blind, 'that the works of God may be made manifest in Him.' So the purpose was clearly not ONLy to confirm the word, but also that the works of God may be made manifest in Him.
You have no authority for the assertion you are making, and it contradicts other scripture.
2. The word is still preached, so signs and wonders still have a role to play.
3. I Corinthians 12 shows that healing and miracles have a function to profit the body of Christ.
It's not only about signs. It's not only about confirming the word in the sight of unbelievers.
4. The passages you reference are not consistent with your teaching that such things have already ceased.
Should we believe the direct teaching of scripture, e.g. I Corinthians 12 that says that gifts are given as the Spirit wills, in favor of your human reasoning?
If you use this line of reasoning as an argument that there are no signs and wonders today, you should reject all the signs and wonders done by the apostles and non-apostles in Acts. If you were consistent, you would have to reject Acts and I Corinthians as scripture. The miracles referenced in these books occured after the ones John wrote about in his gospel.
But your problem is with reading 'only' into certain passages. Sure, John tells us that these things are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God. But it doesn't say that God wouldn't continue to grant that signs and wonders should be done in the time Acts was written, the time I Corinthians was written, today, or in the time of the two witnesses.
1. There was not just one purpose for miracles.
The miracle of splitting the Red Sea displayed God's power. It showed people that God's power was working through Moses. They might be more inclined to accept the Torah after that.
But it had another purpose-- to make a way across the Red Sea. You have no Biblical authority for saying there was one purpose for it. Jesus healng a paralytic didn't just confirm the Gospel, or ONLY show that the Son of Man had power on earth to forgive sin. The healing also healed. The paralytic could walk after the healing. What is your authority for saying that part of God's 'purpose' was not that the man might be healed?
If Jesus said, 'that ye may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins', then how dare you say that was not a purpose of the healing. So clearly, the purpose was not ONLY to confirm the word. Your assertion contradicts scripture.
Jesus healed a blind man and said he was born blind, 'that the works of God may be made manifest in Him.' So the purpose was clearly not ONLy to confirm the word, but also that the works of God may be made manifest in Him.
You have no authority for the assertion you are making, and it contradicts other scripture.
2. The word is still preached, so signs and wonders still have a role to play.
3. I Corinthians 12 shows that healing and miracles have a function to profit the body of Christ.
It's not only about signs. It's not only about confirming the word in the sight of unbelievers.
4. The passages you reference are not consistent with your teaching that such things have already ceased.
Should we believe the direct teaching of scripture, e.g. I Corinthians 12 that says that gifts are given as the Spirit wills, in favor of your human reasoning?
If you use this line of reasoning as an argument that there are no signs and wonders today, you should reject all the signs and wonders done by the apostles and non-apostles in Acts. If you were consistent, you would have to reject Acts and I Corinthians as scripture. The miracles referenced in these books occured after the ones John wrote about in his gospel.
But your problem is with reading 'only' into certain passages. Sure, John tells us that these things are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God. But it doesn't say that God wouldn't continue to grant that signs and wonders should be done in the time Acts was written, the time I Corinthians was written, today, or in the time of the two witnesses.
Jesus said, "Except ye see signs and wonders, ye shall not believe." Some Israelites did believe. There was a remnant among the people. Jesus preached and ministered, and the apostles did after him. There were many thousands who believed in Christ. Some of them believed after they saw miracles, but they had to have something to believe. They believed in the person of Christ and His message. Some did not believe or did not continue in faith, even though they'd seen miracles. But others saw miracles, believed, and continued in faith.
Paul said that God had chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. But he also said that his preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in the demonstration of the Spirit and of power. He said that with signs and wodnder, from Jerusalem round about unto Illyricum, he had fully preached the Gospel of Christ.
In the case of Sergius Paulus he believed after he saw the miracle, being astonished at the teaching of the Lord. He'd heard Paul teach. He'd heard the Gospel, and he believed it, after he saw the miracle.
The Jews require a sign. This was what they wanted. Gentiles wanted knowledge. 'But unto them that believe, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God', as Paul wrote in that passage. Paul and Barnabas did miracles among the Gentiles, too, as we read in Acts 13-15. In Acts 15, they reported the miracles they had done among the Gentiles.
If our authority is in the word of God, then we must accept what the word of God says about signs, wonders, and gift of the Holy Spirit, and not try to argue it away with man-made arguments about the word of God and the role of signs, wonders, and miracles.
Wasn't Philip (likely) Jewish? Paul was a Hebrew also.
I'm not the one saying Gentiles can't minister to Gentiles. I believe they can, and if God so desires, they can do miracles. You were the one with the specious argument that Jews were present when tongues were spoke. In the accounts we read, a Jew is present when a Gentile believes the Gospel, too. That doesn't mean Gentiles couldn't evangelize. We also see that they can speak in tongues. I Corinthians 12 describes the readers as former idolators, not former Jews, and lists divers tongues among the gifts that operated among them.
This is nonsense. Do you ever go to churches that believe in speaking in tongues? There might be some entertainment focused church where tongues is center-stage that you can find. But most churches I've been to that believe in speaking in tongues place much more emphasis on Bible teaching. Actually, Barna did a study a while back that surveyed people to see if they actually believed in Biblical doctrines that their denominations supposedly taught. He had AOG parsed out from Pentecostal in his study, and those two groups of evangelicals ranked highest. He had a study out several years ago that showed that Charismatics knew the Bible better than most evangelicals, based on the criteria of the study.
A lot of churches that believe in speaking in tongues may not see it in every service, and maybe some meetings there will be a tongue and interpretation, and at other services not. That's the say it was when I was growing up. I didn't grow up in the kind of church where everyone speaks in tongues at the same time, though. I realize there are some churches that are disorderly. One thing to keep in mind is that the church in Corinth was disorderly, but the genuiness of their spiritual ifts is not questioned in the epistles.
Paul said that God had chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. But he also said that his preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in the demonstration of the Spirit and of power. He said that with signs and wodnder, from Jerusalem round about unto Illyricum, he had fully preached the Gospel of Christ.
In the case of Sergius Paulus he believed after he saw the miracle, being astonished at the teaching of the Lord. He'd heard Paul teach. He'd heard the Gospel, and he believed it, after he saw the miracle.
The Jews require a sign. This was what they wanted. Gentiles wanted knowledge. 'But unto them that believe, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God', as Paul wrote in that passage. Paul and Barnabas did miracles among the Gentiles, too, as we read in Acts 13-15. In Acts 15, they reported the miracles they had done among the Gentiles.
If our authority is in the word of God, then we must accept what the word of God says about signs, wonders, and gift of the Holy Spirit, and not try to argue it away with man-made arguments about the word of God and the role of signs, wonders, and miracles.
Wasn't Philip (likely) Jewish? Paul was a Hebrew also.
I'm not the one saying Gentiles can't minister to Gentiles. I believe they can, and if God so desires, they can do miracles. You were the one with the specious argument that Jews were present when tongues were spoke. In the accounts we read, a Jew is present when a Gentile believes the Gospel, too. That doesn't mean Gentiles couldn't evangelize. We also see that they can speak in tongues. I Corinthians 12 describes the readers as former idolators, not former Jews, and lists divers tongues among the gifts that operated among them.
This is nonsense. Do you ever go to churches that believe in speaking in tongues? There might be some entertainment focused church where tongues is center-stage that you can find. But most churches I've been to that believe in speaking in tongues place much more emphasis on Bible teaching. Actually, Barna did a study a while back that surveyed people to see if they actually believed in Biblical doctrines that their denominations supposedly taught. He had AOG parsed out from Pentecostal in his study, and those two groups of evangelicals ranked highest. He had a study out several years ago that showed that Charismatics knew the Bible better than most evangelicals, based on the criteria of the study.
A lot of churches that believe in speaking in tongues may not see it in every service, and maybe some meetings there will be a tongue and interpretation, and at other services not. That's the say it was when I was growing up. I didn't grow up in the kind of church where everyone speaks in tongues at the same time, though. I realize there are some churches that are disorderly. One thing to keep in mind is that the church in Corinth was disorderly, but the genuiness of their spiritual ifts is not questioned in the epistles.
If you are born again of the Spirit - YOU have the indwelling of the holy Spirit. Born again - God the Father, who is holy and is spirit, puts his nature (holy Spirit) inside each saved person by way of this new birth; i.e. the new man, the new creation. If you are not indwelt by the holy Spirit; YOU are still the old man, i.e. carnal, flesh.
What makes someone a Christian? Not because he goes to church nor the church he attends, nor because he was baptized in water, nor because he does good works. A Christian is someone who is saved, baptized in holy Spirit - born again, receiving a new nature via the holy Spirit. It is the one baptism in holy spirit that is personally given to each believer by Jesus Christ that makes a person a Christian - the indwelling of the holy Spirit is - God in Christ in YOU. YOU are a new creature:
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
We can stand before God with a pure conscience because it is not our flesh that he looks at but that new creature, that new man that he created in us via the holy Spirit. And - . .by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.
Receiving the holy Spirit, being sealed with the Spirit, walking in the Spirit is the baptism of the holy Spirit and is how we are the body of Christ. . . .
What makes someone a Christian? Not because he goes to church nor the church he attends, nor because he was baptized in water, nor because he does good works. A Christian is someone who is saved, baptized in holy Spirit - born again, receiving a new nature via the holy Spirit. It is the one baptism in holy spirit that is personally given to each believer by Jesus Christ that makes a person a Christian - the indwelling of the holy Spirit is - God in Christ in YOU. YOU are a new creature:
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
We can stand before God with a pure conscience because it is not our flesh that he looks at but that new creature, that new man that he created in us via the holy Spirit. And - . .by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.
Receiving the holy Spirit, being sealed with the Spirit, walking in the Spirit is the baptism of the holy Spirit and is how we are the body of Christ. . . .
I agree with you that water baptism is commanded. It is important. The idea of a Christian not being water baptized would have been quite a foreign concept to the apostles and early Christians.
The Bible does command believers to 'be filled with the Spirit.' In Acts, Luke uses 'baptized with the Holy Spirit', 'receive the gift of Spirit' and 'the Holy Ghost fell on them' to refer to the same type of events. Do a word study on these phrases.
Exegesis requires reading other relevant passages of scripture.
Matthew 3
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
This is a quote from John the Baptist, addressing the Hebrews who came to hear him, including the Pharisees and Saducees. Notice the reference to John in Christ's promise.
Peter said the promise of the Spirit was to those who repented and were baptized. Acts 10-11 shows that Gentiles who believed could receive the Spirit as well.
Jesus asked James and John if they could drink the cup He would drink of and be baptized with the baptism He would be baptized with. He was about to go to the cross. The Pharisees baptized tables. John spoke of baptism with the Holy Ghost. The disciples baptized with water. The Spirit baptizes people into one body.
I take Ephesians 4:5 to mean that hte baptism I partake of to be one with the baptism that others partake of-- not that the word 'baptize' can't be used for multiple things n multiple contexts.
The Bible does command believers to 'be filled with the Spirit.' In Acts, Luke uses 'baptized with the Holy Spirit', 'receive the gift of Spirit' and 'the Holy Ghost fell on them' to refer to the same type of events. Do a word study on these phrases.
Exegesis requires reading other relevant passages of scripture.
Matthew 3
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
This is a quote from John the Baptist, addressing the Hebrews who came to hear him, including the Pharisees and Saducees. Notice the reference to John in Christ's promise.
Peter said the promise of the Spirit was to those who repented and were baptized. Acts 10-11 shows that Gentiles who believed could receive the Spirit as well.
Jesus asked James and John if they could drink the cup He would drink of and be baptized with the baptism He would be baptized with. He was about to go to the cross. The Pharisees baptized tables. John spoke of baptism with the Holy Ghost. The disciples baptized with water. The Spirit baptizes people into one body.
I take Ephesians 4:5 to mean that hte baptism I partake of to be one with the baptism that others partake of-- not that the word 'baptize' can't be used for multiple things n multiple contexts.
The times I have spoken in an unknown language has been alone and in prayer. It is something that I really do not elaborate on even with other believers. Within the church... a different story. There has never been any one to interpret the times someone spoke and it is heard when people are praying and they will pray in English and then pray gibberish. Things like Shundelinana.( spelling.) even singing in an unknown language is prevalent. What was really confusing to me was my pastor got all the ministers (6) to come to the pulpit and the told them to start speaking and praying in the spirit. They started doing this and I guess it became real after a while and it got loud. Now while this was going on, pastor was preaching and telling us this is what was happening on the day of Pentecost and everyone was amazed and wanted to know what was all the noise ,yet they could hear what was being said in their native tongue. You could see the bewildered look on the congregations face as well as laughing and snickering. He could see... and said.."yes" I know it is strange... I want you to be uncomfortable.!!! He talked about what pauls said... Wanting all to speak in tongue...but glosses over the last part about prophesying is better in a tongue we all can understand. All of a sudden... He starts laughing and smiling stops and tells us... "guess what y'all.... as he looks at one of the parishioners seated...."She is speaking in tongue... I love it !" I just get this sick feeling everyone one wants to please pastor and fake the gibberish to keep him happy. But to just tell someone to start speaking and they start? I just do not know. I know I am saved though. Filled with his spirit..living daily and dying to self daily....just grateful he choose me to be a vessel in this day!. Oh I do ask questions .. but the answers are so confusing and so theologian that I end up back to the same question and more confused. but I love Gods word and realize there are errors ( wording and translations) that some people get caught up in ....but the core of it and doctrine stands on its on. NO refutting that !!! well the pagans do that all the time. Just saying.. Off to the 7 last words of Christ program.
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'He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. (1 Corinthians 14:4 RSV)
Now I want you all to speak in tongues,[That is a good gift; there is nothing wrong with that, but he especially demands that it be interpreted so it would be of benefit.] but even more to prophesy.[ He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified. (1 Corinthians 14:5 RSV)