Is there such a thing as an atheist?

[Cycel]

Also note that since the time of Daniel (2nd century BCE), it had been clearly prophesied to them that "knowledge will increase" (Daniel 12:4).

"But you, Daniel, keep the words secret and seal the book till the time of the end. Many will be at their wits' end, and punishment will be heavy" (Daniel 12:4).

I have two issues, i) where is it "clearly prophesied" in the passage you indicated that "knowledge will increase"?

ii) I would think that knowledge increasing over time should be the normal state of affairs. I don't see that this would be much of a prophecy.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Then there are New Testament books like the Gospel of John. Jesus turns water into good wine instantly during the wedding reception at Cana (John 2:1-11). Normally, the time required to make wine varies from one month to several months or longer. The best wines take longer.

God made space. God made time. God is not constrained by either. If good wine could be made instantly, it becomes more reasonable to consider that a good heavens and good earth could be made in six days.

The wine had attributes as if it were much older. So does the universe.

But you are wasting your breath on atheists. The scriptures is very clear that "Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." Mark 10:15

This is the rub. You have to be a little child to receive the kingdom of God but satan has deceived them into thinking that they have to become intelligent, educated, logical and scientific to receive the kingdom of God. Whilst they are claiming to be all this they are shutting the door on receiving the kingdom of God because they refuse to be a little child.

This is deliberate policy by God because it means that no one is exempt from receiving the kingdom of God if you only have to be a child to do so. In addition it prevents anyone thinking that they earned the right to the kingdom of God because they are brainy, or logical, or scientific or have degrees.

In fact, behind the cynicism of many atheists is the beef that God won't accept them because they are so clever and if he won't accept them because they are so clever then "up yours." In other words they want a piece of heaven on their own terms not God's.

But of course as we all know they can't see this or admit to it because satan has blinded their eyes and this attitude is proof satan has blinded their eyes as it says in John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes" and "has hardened their heart," "that they might not see with the eyes" and "understand with the heart," "and be converted," "and I should heal them."

So sorry boys, it is God's way or no way. I know that you hate that fact, but that is how the cookie crumbles.

Now if you were to stop being so proud of your achievements and what you supposedly know.......

 

[mustaphadrink]

But I fail to see what is rational about talking animals, magic trees, fire breathing underwater monsters, flaming swords guarding the gates of paradise etc. How does one even begin to have an intelligent discussion about all that?

So my comments are not irrelevant at all. I'm called a 'fool' and 'closed minded' because I cannot accept those clearly mythical things as truth.

And if those things were mentioned in any other context or aspect of life then you wouldn't believe them to be true either.

See my original comment.

 

[mustaphadrink]

All right, you have given your warning, but it falls on deaf ears. The way to reach the atheist is to convince him of the truth of your position. You can only do that if you overcome his objections. Can you do that?

In support of spokenpassage the bible has you summed up beautifully in John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes" and "has hardened their heart," "that they might not see with the eyes" and "understand with the heart," "and be converted," "and I should heal them."

This verse shows why anything we say falls on deaf ears. Until you become as a little child you will ALWAYS have deaf ears.

 

[mustaphadrink]

The Hebrews believed God created Man in his image, but is there any evidence they possessed any concept of other worlds beyond the solar system?

What difference does knowing there were other worlds beyond our solar system? Whether we do or don't know those things does not make a scrap of difference to the fact that we are made in God's image. Like so many atheists, you are arguing for arguments sake and to try and avoid the truth at all costs which you can't handle.

 

[Cycel]

Ever hear of Einstein? Do a little reading of his work. (BTW he was a jewish beleiver in Jesus)

In a letter dated 24 March 1954 Einstein wrote: “It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.” (Wikipedia: Religious views of Albert Einstein)

Can it be said that a man who does not accept the existence of a personal God is a “Jewish believer in Jesus”? Such a man would not think that Jesus was the son of a deity, unless of course you have a quote of his that confirms your claim?

 

[mustaphadrink]

I believe you will see it one day, but it won't be from the result of seeing all of kinds of evidence that you desire. But I cannot say how.

God created the world my friend. God made man. Man rebelled. Man condemned by the law. God sent Son. Son took our condemnation. We are set free.

Until you believe, God will not show Himself as much as He wants to. If He does, what a rare occasion!

Man says shows me evidence and I will believe. God says believe and I will show you evidence.

God truly loves you, even now.

A very good post Spokenpassage but you and I know the atheists are too proud to admit that they don't know everything and that they need help to really understand God and his creation. Until that happens they are as blind as bats and all the ranting and raving about their cosmology and this means that and that proves this is nothing more than a stumbling block to them entering heaven for the simple reason God does not need their help to prove anything.

They believe knowledge is the answer to everything and that is an oxymoron because if that is what you believe then you have to ditch your knowledge. What a weird religion they follow.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Personally, I think Genesis paints a picture of the world very different from the one we recognize.

Here we go again....personally 'I' think......which sounds to me that you don't think. All you do ramble on about weird ideas that have no foundation or proof.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Oh, but you can if there is truly evidence for your claims..

That is the biggest lie satan has ever produced. I have many, many books that show quite clearly evidence that God exists through the lives and experiences of many, many people who put their faith and trust in God and I can say without fear of contradiction that you could read everyone of them and still you would not accept that God exists for the simple reason as it says in John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes" and "has hardened their heart," "that they might not see with the eyes" and "understand with the heart," "and be converted," "and I should heal them."

Until you stop being so proud and admit that you need God YOU WILL NEVER experience the living God as father and provider. At best all you can do is say that I have no need of him because that is what you believe because of your pride, and suffer the consequences of your decision.

 

[mustaphadrink]

The thing is, in your post you could replace the word 'god' with 'The great Ju-Ju of the sea' and it would still read exactly the same. All your doing is putting a name to an unknown.

Unknown to you but not to us, so please stop lumping us in with you and all the other ignorant atheists.

 

[mustaphadrink]

To believe this whole Universe was randomly created from nothing takes incredible faith in science. I don't have anywhere near that sort of faith. I believe in God. A being that lives outside laws of time that set up the laws of time and the law that something cannot come from nothing.

So right Drett. Atheism requires faith that is a humongous hurdle to understanding as it expects us to take at face value the machinations of some human being who thinks that he knows more than God and does so without any proof or evidence.

In fact the faith of atheists and what they believe is so laughable that you have to put into the 'magic' basket. Like goo to you via the zoo. Anyone seem my white rabbit which I need to pull out of my hat to be convincing.

 

[mustaphadrink]

My reasoning: the universe exists, it must have had a beginning, the Big Bang might explain its origin.

The watch exists and it must have had a beginning. The car exists and it must have had a beginning. The suitcase exists and it must have had a beginning. The horse exists and it must have had a beginning. The computer exists and it must have had a beginning. The map exists and it must have had a beginning. The sandcastle exists and it must have had a beginning.

In fact all of them must have had a beginning so I will put it down to a big bang as I don't believe any of them were created by anyone.

P.S. Keep clear of the Kellogg Cornflakes factory as they produce millions of packets of them every day so there will be a lot of big bangs going on.

 

[mustaphadrink]

We are going around in circles over this. The Theories DO NOT state the universe started from nothing!

"The earliest instant of the Big Bang expansion is still an area of open investigation. The Big Bang theory does not provide any explanation for the initial conditions of the universe; rather, it describes and explains the general evolution of the universe going forward from that point on." (Wikipedia).

If the big bang does not provide any explanation for the initial conditions of the universe, how do you know that God did not create heaven and earth as it says in Genesis?

If there was something before the big bang which in essence is what this says, then to deny the God of creation in the absence of any other evidence is churlish in the extreme and which tells me you don't want to know the truth which you appear not to be able to handle, your mind is made up.

 

[Cycel]

I don't believe the possibility of life on other planets, in any way, hurts the credibility of the Bible. I do however, believe man is unique and unlike anything else in the entire Universe as we are the only creature created in God's image.

So your willingness to accept the existence of other sentient beings is theologically restricted by scripture. May I ask, what would God’s purpose be in creating other verdant worlds without men to enjoy them? What biblical evidence is there that such worlds exist?

The Hebrews believed God created Man in his image, but is there any evidence they possessed any concept of other worlds beyond the solar system?

What difference does knowing there were other worlds beyond our solar system? Whether we do or don't know those things does not make a scrap of difference to the fact that we are made in God's image. Like so many atheists, you are arguing for arguments sake and to try and avoid the truth at all costs which you can't handle.

If you look back to Jda’s words, then mine, you will see that I was referencing his post. Jda believes there may be other worlds like Earth with plants and animals, but thinks only Earth has human-like beings as only we are created in God's image.

I hope that clears up your misunderstanding.

 

[Zinzerio]

But you are wasting your breath on atheists. The scriptures is very clear that "Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." Mark 10:15.

That scripture is for the person reading it, and not for you to stop other people entering the kingdom of heaven or to tell others not to wastes there time on unbelievers.. (as that would suggest you have always been found and not lost) (no wonder there are atheists around with people like you who say they are christian) ( lets look at the picture,, you arrive at heaven, the farther says oh hang on are you not the guy who said don't preach the word to unbelievers ? (your the atheist to me mate.

This is the rub. You have to be a little child to receive the kingdom of God but satan has deceived them into thinking that they have to become intelligent, educated, logical and scientific to receive the kingdom of God. Whilst they are claiming to be all this they are shutting the door on receiving the kingdom of God because they refuse to be a little child.

nope your the one who has just shut the door look at your above post.

This is deliberate policy by God because it means that no one is exempt from receiving the kingdom of God if you only have to be a child to do so. In addition it prevents anyone thinking that they earned the right to the kingdom of God because they are brainy, or logical, or scientific or have degrees.

you miss understand the quote "Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." Mark 10:15.,,

it does not mean become an immature child and think like a child which is evident from your wacky behavior,, it means to always to treat God like he is your farther.. and obey his word in love and kindness,,and love all his other children like they where his brothers and sisters remembering that the farther is there farther too. love thy enemy love thy next door neighbor.

In fact, behind the cynicism of many atheists is the beef that God won't accept them because they are so clever and if he won't accept them because they are so clever then "up yours." In other words they want a piece of heaven on their own terms not God's.

simply not true they are loving people and love there family they just have for some reason lost there faith in God. before you condemn them all you should look to treat each case differently and find out why. remembering that you to are lost with out your farther.

But of course as we all know they can't see this or admit to it because satan has blinded their eyes and this attitude is proof satan has blinded their eyes as it says in John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes" and "has hardened their heart," "that they might not see with the eyes" and "understand with the heart," "and be converted," "and I should heal them."

So sorry boys, it is God's way or no way. I know that you hate that fact, but that is how the cookie crumbles.

Now if you were to stop being so proud of your achievements and what you supposedly know.......

are you sure your not blind too ?.

 

[skipp]

It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick

Jesus ate with tax collectors and prostitutes in order to save them. He didn't see it as a waste of time.

 

[nl]

"But you, Daniel, keep the words secret and seal the book till the time of the end. Many will be at their wits' end, and punishment will be heavy" (Daniel 12:4).

I have two issues, i) where is it "clearly prophesied" in the passage you indicated that "knowledge will increase"?

ii) I would think that knowledge increasing over time should be the normal state of affairs. I don't see that this would be much of a prophecy.

Alternate translation: But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. (Daniel 12:4 KJV)

The growth of knowledge was once linear (red line) but it has become exponential (green curve).



Graphics source: Exponential growth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[IntoTheVoid]

In fact the faith of atheists and what they believe....

Don't redefine a word.

An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a deity. That's it.

 

[Cycel]

The watch exists and it must have had a beginning. The car exists and it must have had a beginning. The suitcase exists and it must have had a beginning. The horse exists and it must have had a beginning. The computer exists and it must have had a beginning. The map exists and it must have had a beginning. The sandcastle exists and it must have had a beginning.

God exists and must have had a beginning.

No? This is where the progression of your own logic leads.

This is the point I was making. You cannot claim that God alone is without a First Cause. You will of course make that claim. You will name thousands of things that exist, including God, but you will insist that God alone had no beginning. Why? It is because scripture says so. That argument does not play well with an atheist. We suspect scripture makes that claim because the author of the text could not think of a plausible explanation for God’s origin. A group of Gnostic Christians did, however, come up with their own resolution to the problem. They asserted that the creator of the world, Yahweh, was in fact himself created by an even higher Being - the True God. It just might be turtles all the way down.

Mustaphadrink, you cannot claim that everything that exists has a beginning and then exclude one item alone from your list. It demonstrates your willingness to force a round object through a square hole. You do the work yourself of undermining your own credibility. I'll just leave you to it.

 

[Cycel]

When I continue with Genesis one, it describes an arrangement of formlessness followed by order, of darkness followed by a separation of darkness and light, of things below separated from things above, of pervasive waters followed by a separation of waters from dry land, of six creation days. Genesis 1:26 contains hints of a theological trinity and of the nature of humanity: "Let us make man in our image". Genesis one contains information about God creating male and female and giving them directions (Genesis 1:28-30). An expansion of those themes would need to be the subject of additional posts.

You did not touch on my repeated assertion that Genesis 1 describes a Bronze Age cosmology that shows no resemblance to the world as we know it today. The text is excellent for showing what once was believed about the world, but it is useless for attempting to understand the universe as it actually exists. Yet, despite this, conservative Christians insist upon taking the words literally. The diagram I posted earlier is the true picture of the world that Hebrew cosmology presents in the first chapter of Genesis. We can deduct nothing about the universe from that chapter.