Is there such a thing as an atheist?

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Aug 25, 2013
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Jesus' perfect life, death, and resurrection is the whole point of the bible. If you missed this, you missed the whole thing.

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
The whole point of the the New Testament, not the Old.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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Mustaphadrink, I think the author of Mark is talking about wealth and political power, not knowledge.
The author Mark is not talking about political power and wealth. In the Greek he is talking about losing one's own soul.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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The whole point of the the New Testament, not the Old.
Wrong again. Whilst the Old Testament is a history of the Jews, central to that are the prophecies that speak of the coming messiah as the Jews were expecting God to send them a messiah to save them from their woes.
 
Aug 25, 2013
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Cycel said:
When I read Genesis one I perceive an image of the world that is nothing like the world I live in. I think this text describes an ancient cosmological view of the world that is now defunct. This is the reason I must turn to science, but if you think the text is accurate then explain what I have misunderstood so that I can grasp it as you do.
Well, here is me an ignorant Christian who does not have much time for man made hypothesis explaining to an atheist who has built his faith on man made hypothesis what the bible means and how it works today.
I've been talking about the Hebrew cosmology and you have tried to turn the discussion away from this to evolution. Genesis one describes a flat earth with a sky that is domed and hard as cast metal that God can walk upon.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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I mean as much as Christianity is hated, SOMEONE oughta be able to produce SOMETHING, that proves it false. So far archaeology is only bolstering the claims AND the people mentioned in scripture.
Quite true Sirk. The best that atheists can do is say I can't disprove a negative which is their way of saying they cannot provide any evidence that says it is false.
 
Aug 25, 2013
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Wrong again. Whilst the Old Testament is a history of the Jews, central to that are the prophecies that speak of the coming messiah as the Jews were expecting God to send them a messiah to save them from their woes.
Jesus is not named in the Old Testament and there are no references to him. The messianic movement was looking for a Jewish king from the house of David to sit on the throne and rule. That never happened.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
I've been talking about the Hebrew cosmology and you have tried to turn the discussion away from this to evolution. Genesis one describes a flat earth with a sky that is domed and hard as cast metal that God can walk upon.
I don't see that there cycel, can you show me some verses that says that? The first verse says He created the heavens and the earth. I don't see any flat earth, that is domed, and hard as a cast metal that God can walk on anywhere in the bible.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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I've been talking about the Hebrew cosmology and you have tried to turn the discussion away from this to evolution. Genesis one describes a flat earth with a sky that is domed and hard as cast metal that God can walk upon.
Ha, Ha. Thanks for the laugh and exposing your ignorance.

In the Hebrew heaven means lofty: a visible ARCH. Earth means to be firm; country; field; ground; land; wilderness; world.

As you will see you are shooting from the lip again as it does not mention a flat earth or God walking on the sky.

You atheists really are a joke a minute. You weren't a scriptwriter for Bob Hope by any chance?
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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Jesus is not named in the Old Testament and there are no references to him. The messianic movement was looking for a Jewish king from the house of David to sit on the throne and rule. That never happened.
NUMBER 1. In fact, when I began to read the Bible with an open mind, I was astounded to discover that Yeshua is mentioned more than 150 times in the Old Testament. The apostle Paul even used the Tanakh to teach about Yeshua: “[The leaders of the Jews] arranged to meet Paul on a certain day. ... From morning till evening he explained and declared to them the kingdom of God and tried to convince them about Jesus from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets” (Acts 28:23, NIV).
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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NUMBER 2. This is where the concept of the Messiah comes in. Isaiah 53:1 asks, “Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” In the context of this chapter, it is obvious that when Isaiah says “arm of the Lord,” he is referring to Messiah. They are the same.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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NUMBER 3. Daniel writes: “Inmy vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was ledinto his presence. [FONT=&quot]“Hewas given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men ofevery language worshipped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion thatwill not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed” (Dan.7:13-14, NIV).[/FONT]
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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NUMBER 4. God the Son. In the ninth chapter of Isaiah, the prophettalks about a “Son” who will be called “Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (see v. 6).
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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NUMBER 5. “And you, OBethlehem Ephrath, you who were too small to be numbered among the thousands inthe house of Judah, from you shall come forth before Me the Messiah, toexercise dominion over Israel, He whose name was mentioned from before, fromthe days of creation.[SUP][FONT=&quot]” [/FONT][/SUP][FONT=&quot]“I will put enmitybetween you and the woman, and between the offspring of your sons and the offspringof her sons; and it shall be that when the sons of the woman observe thecommandments of the Torah, they will direct themselves to smite you on thehead, but when they forsake the commandments of the Torah, you will directyourself to bite them on the heel. However, there is a remedy for them, but noremedy for you. They are destined to make peace in the end, in the days of theKing Messiah.[/FONT][SUP][FONT=&quot]”[/FONT][/SUP][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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NUMBER 6. Here is Genesis 49:10 from Targum Onkelos:
“The transmission of dominion shall not cease from the house of Judah, nor the scribe from his children’s children, forever, until the Messiah comes ... whom nations shall obey.
 
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MarkMulder

Guest
Mustaphadrink, I think the author of Mark is talking about wealth and political power, not knowledge.
... and you should take anything Mark says seriously. :rolleyes:
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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NUMBER 7. And the BabylonianTalmud, which was completed 500 years after Jesus, offers a commentary onZechariah 12:10. The verse reads, “They will look on Me, the One they havepierced, and they will mourn for Him as one mourns for an only child, andgrieve bitterly for Him as one grieves for a firstborn son.”TheTargum asks, “What is the cause of the mourning?” and answers, “It is wellaccording to him who explains that the cause is the slaying of Messiah, the sonof Joseph.”

All these are verses in the Old Testament and refer to Jesus, that is if you looking for evidence, not just poking a stick and making nonsensical claims.

My thanks to
Jonathan Bernis president of Jewish Voice Ministries International. He is the founding rabbi of Congregation Shema Yisrael in Rochester, N.Y., and the Messianic Center of St. Petersburg, Russia. This article was adapted from his book, A Rabbi Looks at Jesus of Nazareth (Chosen, a division of Baker Publishing Group). Copyright © 2011. Used by permission and who I would consider is a greater authority on the Old Testament than cycel.
 
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MarkMulder

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@Mustaphadrink, those are JEWISH commentaries,
WE can do without them to understand the Bible.
They don't have any authority.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
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I've been talking about the Hebrew cosmology and you have tried to turn the discussion away from this to evolution. Genesis one describes a flat earth with a sky that is domed and hard as cast metal that God can walk upon.
Argument can be made and supported that the Bible communicates a "sky-dome cosmology" but variant views are possible. Cycel, now you've taken that further to a flat earth which I don't see in the Scriptures.

The Bible also speaks first to a contemporary audience and speaks primarily to the nature of God, the nature of man and the relationship between the two. The Bible does not try to advance the principles of known, natural science. People are left to discover that on their own. The message of the Bible (described by some as Ruin, Redemption and Regeneration) has been reaching people in a variety of historical, linguistic and cultural situations.

Ancient Egyptians, Sumerians, Babylonians also had elements of a domed and earth-centered (geocentric) cosmology.

Western science operated according to the paradigm of an earth-centered (geocentric) cosmology up until the late sixteenth century. Much has been discovered since then.

Rest assured, contemporary science continues to have its own erroneous presuppositions and misunderstandings that will be discovered and amended in the future.